Interesting party combos/team tactics

[Greywander]

I've posted a similar thread before, going over a single defensive tactic. Often when we're looking to optimize, we're just looking at one character, rather than trying to optimize the party as a team. I'm curious what sorts of interesting combos there are out there, and how easy it might be to combine some of these into a single party to increase the variety of tactics available. One of the issues is that there are so many classes and subclasses that might be helpful to a particular tactic that you can't really get all of them into the same party.

For the defensive tactic I mentioned I've posted before (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?625374-Turtling-up-Team-based-defensive-tactics), it mostly relies on two characters: a paladin and either an Artillerist artificer or Twilight cleric. Basically, we're trying to find a way to boost the HP, AC, and saves of the whole party. The paladin's Aura of Protection + Bless buffs the party's saves. The artificer/cleric grants temp HP every round via protector cannon/channel divinity, and later, also grants half cover for a +2 bonus to AC and DEX saves. Redemption pally with the artificer would probably be my ideal pick, but other combos can offer a different spin. There are other classes you could stack on this to provide even more defense, e.g. a Peace or Life cleric, a Cavalier fighter, or an Abjurer wizard, but none of them are crucial to the core concept of this tactic, and they can be somewhat interchangeable with one another.

Another combo I've seen mentioned before is a grappler with another class that can create environmental hazards, Spike Growth being the most notable since the damage taken increases with the distance traveled. In addition to the grappler and hazard-maker, a warlock with Repelling Blast/Grasp of Hadar who can knock enemies into the hazard is also a fine addition. A Genielock (dao) can get Spike Growth, and can also pick up the Crusher feat for more knockback. Anyone with a spare bonus action can pick up the Telekinetic feat to be able to move enemies into harzards (or to reposition allies). Create Bonfire is also a nice backup concentration spell for the warlock, in case they run out of spell slots or have nothing better to concentrate on. This one is a lot looser since it's less reliant on specific class features and moreso just on being able to produce a certain find of effect or outcome.

I think in general, grappling kind of exemplifies the subject of the thread. Grappling, by itself, isn't super useful. Sure, if you were in a one-on-one fight, it might well be worth it to grapple your opponent and shove them prone in order to gain an advantage for the rest of the combat, but where grappling truly shines is when it can be exploited by the rest of the party. There's a lot of tactics that involve taking two actions that in isolation would be suboptimal, but when used together produce an outcome greater than taking the two individually optimal actions. It's basically the difference between actions that stack additively and those that stack multiplicatively; those that multiply often end up with a greater total result than those that simply add together, even if the numbers being multiplied are smaller than the numbers being added.

What are some other interesting party combos or tactics?

[Quoz]

Doesn't necessarily work for the whole team, but a two player combo of a small race with mounted combat riding a medium sized character is very fun. Im playing a goblin stone sorcerer/genie warlock right now. Cast armor of agathys and shadow of moil and watch the hilarity. AC 19 with automatic disadvantage on incoming attacks, and I can redirect any attack from the character I am riding to myself while giving them evasion from AoEs. They can wade into melee and since I am heavily obscured I can blast away with eldritch blasts at will. And anyone that does hit me in melee will take more damage than they deal from my defensive spells.

If building around this combo intentionally, I would probably go with a rider as an abjuration wizard with a small dip for AC (stone sorcerer or hexblade). You will probably want custom lineage to get a free feat for mounted combat from level 1, but if starting at higher level there are more options. Through multiclass or feats, pick up Armor of Agathys, con save proficiency, and a source of disadvantage to attacks against you (greater invisibility, shadow of moil, or items)

For the medium sized "mount" I would choose centaur for flavor but any medium race will do. You get freedom in the build by largely ignoring AC and HP. A Charisma based paladin could be amazing here, or a gish like a bard or bladesinger. A barbarian that could focus on all out offense and reckless attacks could also be a lot of fun. If possible, pick up warding bond to double the durability of your partner.

[Frogreaver]

Have all the mages use their offensive buff spells on the same character. This has a multiplicative DPR bonus instead of additive.

Monks Stunning Strike + Disintegrate also makes a great combo. *Being stunned causes automatic failure for Dex saves.

[stoutstien]

I enjoy taking the subclass options that are considered weaker and meshing them together to form interested combos.

The alchemist artificer and a thief rogue can form a strong backbone for any group. The alchemist has some powerful flexibility but has horrid action economy issues and the thief has amazing action economy options but not much to do with it. Once I realized the EE, and later on the SSI, are not magical items so they work with fast hands we have an avenue to work from.
Once you hit double digit levels the thief can start using scrolls that the Artificer can produce rapidly which can turn them into a pseudo AT when needed.

[The Big Bear]

The party just figured out that it is pretty efficient for the celestial warlock to have Greater Restoration to use before a short rest so that the berserker barb can get more uses out of Frenzy Rage.

[Xetheral]

Doesn't necessarily work for the whole team, but a two player combo of a small race with mounted combat riding a medium sized character is very fun. Im playing a goblin stone sorcerer/genie warlock right now. Cast armor of agathys and shadow of moil and watch the hilarity. AC 19 with automatic disadvantage on incoming attacks, and I can redirect any attack from the character I am riding to myself while giving them evasion from AoEs. They can wade into melee and since I am heavily obscured I can blast away with eldritch blasts at will. And anyone that does hit me in melee will take more damage than they deal from my defensive spells.

If building around this combo intentionally, I would probably go with a rider as an abjuration wizard with a small dip for AC (stone sorcerer or hexblade). You will probably want custom lineage to get a free feat for mounted combat from level 1, but if starting at higher level there are more options. Through multiclass or feats, pick up Armor of Agathys, con save proficiency, and a source of disadvantage to attacks against you (greater invisibility, shadow of moil, or items)

For the medium sized "mount" I would choose centaur for flavor but any medium race will do. You get freedom in the build by largely ignoring AC and HP. A Charisma based paladin could be amazing here, or a gish like a bard or bladesinger. A barbarian that could focus on all out offense and reckless attacks could also be a lot of fun. If possible, pick up warding bond to double the durability of your partner.

The best mount character I think would be a Kobold Moon Druid/Ancients Paladin with Sentinel. As you noted, the low AC of Wildshape forms gets solved by the rider's mounted combat feat. The low damage gets solved by Smite. The low attack bonus is compensated for by permanent advantage from Pack Tactics. The vulnerability to AoE damage is compensated for by the resistance from the Ancients aura (which then gets shared with the rider). And Sentinel practically guarantees reaction attacks when the rider redirects attacks away from the mount.

[whateew]

Doesn't necessarily work for the whole team, but a two player combo of a small race with mounted combat riding a medium sized character is very fun. Im playing a goblin stone sorcerer/genie warlock right now. Cast armor of agathys and shadow of moil and watch the hilarity. AC 19 with automatic disadvantage on incoming attacks, and I can redirect any attack from the character I am riding to myself while giving them evasion from AoEs. They can wade into melee and since I am heavily obscured I can blast away with eldritch blasts at will. And anyone that does hit me in melee will take more damage than they deal from my defensive spells.

If building around this combo intentionally, I would probably go with a rider as an abjuration wizard with a small dip for AC (stone sorcerer or hexblade). You will probably want custom lineage to get a free feat for mounted combat from level 1, but if starting at higher level there are more options. Through multiclass or feats, pick up Armor of Agathys, con save proficiency, and a source of disadvantage to attacks against you (greater invisibility, shadow of moil, or items)

For the medium sized "mount" I would choose centaur for flavor but any medium race will do. You get freedom in the build by largely ignoring AC and HP. A Charisma based paladin could be amazing here, or a gish like a bard or bladesinger. A barbarian that could focus on all out offense and reckless attacks could also be a lot of fun. If possible, pick up warding bond to double the durability of your partner.

I love this, it works amazingly with enlarge on the mount (or possibly an giant fighter, with interception or protection for real maximum defense!)

That fighter or rider getting hold person'd or otherwise dominated would be a major problem though, and so would groups, you only get the one reaction

[msfnc]

I am reminded of the “frog stack”. Grung beastmaster ranger rides a giant frog, casts animal friendship on a giant toad (for the frog to ride), and casts find familiar (via ritual caster or magic initiate) to summon a frog that rides the grung. Frog rides grung rides giant frog rides giant toad. So impractical and fun.

[Angelalex242]

Diviner+Paladin.

Portent Crit Smite on command. Naturally, the smite+spell smite plus weapon damage...doubled...

[SpawnOfMorbo]

"The Fleas"

a party (3-5) Halfling Beast Barbarians, Strength focused.

Each with Skill Expert (Athletics)

Each will use climb onto a bigger creature, the same target...

Each will Rage and use Reckless attack with the BITE option.


If no bigger creatures are around, the Halflings can grapple pretty well.


====

Take levels of Trickery Cleric for those sweet, sweet, trickery cleric spells like... Mirror Image, Pass Without Trace, and Blink. Barbarian 14/Cleric 6 is a nice set up.

[stoutstien]

Diviner+Paladin.

Portent Crit Smite on command. Naturally, the smite+spell smite plus weapon damage...doubled...

Why not use grave cleric you can do it 1-3 times everyday rather than 1/20 days at random?

[Hytheter]

Why not use grave cleric you can do it 1-3 times everyday rather than 1/20 days at random?

Now let's be fair, you get two portents a day so it's really closer to 1/10 days. :P

The real trick is to use all three to make those portent 20s truly sing.

[Kurt Kurageous]

I found bardic inspiration given to sharpshooter/GWM is good. Trade an inspiration die to (usually) offset the -5 to hit in exchange for ten guaranteed hp.

[Angelalex242]

To be fair, I know a guy who used some Adventure's League shenanigans who had like 12 portents and used them to feed my character for DPS. It was devastatingly effective.

[Crucius]

Order Cleric or Commander's Strike with a Rogue is pretty gnarly for that off-turn sneak attack.

Dissonant whispers combined with a warcaster allows a leveled spell to be cast in a reaction (could be done within one character even).

To me these synergies are already pretty old and quite obvious, but maybe someone didn't know them yet.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Step 1: Get everyone Stealth
Step 2: Don't let anyone use anything heavier than a Breastplate
Step 3: Cast Pass Without Trace
Step 4: Explore the Dungeon, Castle, or whatnot, then avoid what you want and end the rest.

While some may think it's not that creative or inventive, I really enjoyed playing in a party that was basically a team built to get the jump on every fight. At some point the DM started balancing encounters based on the fact we would, so if we messed up things could really go sideways in a hurry.

[Oramac]

One of the most fun parties I ever played in used the single goal of having as many rolls/rerolls as possible.

5 players, starting at 6th level.

- All play Halflings
- 1st player goes 4 Bard / 2 Divination Wizard
- 2nd player goes 2 Tempest Cleric / 4 Divination Wizard
- Other 3 players all go full on Divination Wizard
- ALL players take the Lucky Feat at 4th level.

So after all is said and done we had:

- Reroll all 1s
- 10 Portent Dice
- 15 Lucky Dice

We were 'The Lucky Misfits'. An amazing group, and loads of fun.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Step 1: Get everyone Stealth
Step 2: Don't let anyone use anything heavier than a Breastplate
Step 3: Cast Pass Without Trace
Step 4: Explore the Dungeon, Castle, or whatnot, then avoid what you want and end the rest.

While some may think it's not that creative or inventive, I really enjoyed playing in a party that was basically a team built to get the jump on every fight. At some point the DM started balancing encounters based on the fact we would, so if we messed up things could really go sideways in a hurry.

Pass Without Trace doesn't make you invisible or stop you from springing traps.

Gonna need some invisibility and flight to really pull that trick off and hope you don't get stuck in a room with the doors shut.

[Mercurias]

I had a pretty brutal end-of-day encounter once where the party was down to almost no spells, and the enemies were fresh as daisies. The Druid cast Faerie Fire, the Bard cast Bane, and the Cleric cast Bless all on their first turn. Combining those made the party significantly while preventing the enemies from using the cover of darkness to make mischief. Bane was the icing on the cake.

The party managed to use only 2 level 2 spell slots and a level 1 spell slot and win an encounter against 6 enemies.

[Valmark]

I really like Conjure Animals (or some other spell that spams minions) + Animal Shapes. Animal Shapes is normally a pretty bad spell for the level it's at, but you can get a lot of mileage out of using them on your weak, numerous minions.

Another is, perhaps obvious, Maelstrom + Sickening Radiance or any other combo of spells who both reduce speed in different ways (Maelstrom makes difficult terrain and pulls back 10 feet, Sickening Radiance halves and eventually puts their speed to 0). Watch them struggle as they can't neither come after you or run away.