Best Wizard DPR buff: Haste, Greater Invisibility, or the Tasha summon spells?

[Merudo]

I'm looking for some sort of way for my Wizard to increase the DPR of the party when facing creatures with magic resistance and the likes.

Right now I'm debating between Haste, Greater Invisibility, and the Tasha summon spells (probably Summon Undead, as I consider it the most versatile).

I'm aware all three spells do stuff beside increasing DPR, however I'd like to compare them purely on a DPR basis.

Here are my thoughts on each spells:


Haste: best to cast it on a Rogue - it allows them to do two sneak attacks a round, doubling their firepower at the cost of their reaction. Losing concentration is awful.
Greater Invisibility: gaining advantage is especially useful for characters using Great Weapon Master or Sharp Shooter, or with Elven Accuracy. Not good if the character can already gain advantage through other means.
Tasha's summons: decent damage and lasts an hour.


I'm excluding Summon Greater Demon from the discussion, as although it is an excellent spell, it can sometimes be extremely dangerous to cast.

[YoungestGruff]

I'm looking for some sort of way for my Wizard to increase the DPR of the party when facing creatures with magic resistance and the likes.

Right now I'm debating between Haste, Greater Invisibility, and the Tasha summon spells (probably Summon Undead, as I consider it the most versatile).

I'm aware all three spells do stuff beside increasing DPR, however I'd like to compare them purely on a DPR basis.

Here are my thoughts on each spells:


Haste: best to cast it on a Rogue - it allows them to do two sneak attacks a round, doubling their firepower at the cost of their reaction. Losing concentration is awful.
Greater Invisibility: gaining advantage is especially useful for characters using Great Weapon Master or Sharp Shooter, or with Elven Accuracy. Not good if the character can already gain advantage through other means.
Tasha's summons: decent damage and lasts an hour.


I'm excluding Summon Greater Demon from the discussion, as although it is an excellent spell, it can sometimes be extremely dangerous to cast.

For casting Haste on the Rogue, it actually only gives two chances to try Sneak Attack - Rogues can only Sneak Attack once per turn.

[ff7hero]

Really depends on your party, as you somewhat hinted at when talking about good targets for Haste/Greater Invisibility. Do you have a Rogue or a SS/GWM user in your party?

Edit for the above poster: The rogue can attack with the Haste action and use their main action to ready an attack to trigger Sneak Attack twice in a round.

[Blood of Gaea]

For casting Haste on the Rogue, it actually only gives two chances to try Sneak Attack - Rogues can only Sneak Attack once per turn.
You sneak attack with your hasted action, then ready an action to attack after your turn ends.

[Aaron Underhand]

Both Haste and GI have defensive and maneuvering advantages as well, move ac and save buffs on haste, disadvantage to hit and free disengage on GI. It's very situational and party dependent which is better, so ask yourself

"Do I want to be the mage who hastes people, or do I want to be the mage who makes them invisible"

[LudicSavant]

I'm looking for some sort of way for my Wizard to increase the DPR of the party when facing creatures with magic resistance and the likes.

Right now I'm debating between Haste, Greater Invisibility, and the Tasha summon spells (probably Summon Undead, as I consider it the most versatile).

I'm aware all three spells do stuff beside increasing DPR, however I'd like to compare them purely on a DPR basis.

Here are my thoughts on each spells:


Haste: best to cast it on a Rogue - it allows them to do two sneak attacks a round, doubling their firepower at the cost of their reaction. Losing concentration is awful.
Greater Invisibility: gaining advantage is especially useful for characters using Great Weapon Master or Sharp Shooter, or with Elven Accuracy. Not good if the character can already gain advantage through other means.
Tasha's summons: decent damage and lasts an hour.


I'm excluding Summon Greater Demon from the discussion, as although it is an excellent spell, it can sometimes be extremely dangerous to cast.

It really depends on party composition, tactical situation, and enemy matchup. All three spells have a niche. Being the best at this is less a case of identifying which of these spells is best, and instead about identifying when is best to use each spell.

There's also a bunch of other spells to consider for butchering Magic Resistance / Legendary Resistance foes, too. Some good examples include Cloud of Daggers, Wall of Fire, Crown of Stars, and Steel Wind Strike.

[MaxWilson]

You sneak attack with your hasted action, then ready an action to attack after your turn ends.

It's worth noting that if you miss with your Hasted attack, you might as well just Attack again immediately instead of Readying, so you can save your reaction for Uncanny Dodge or an opportunity attack.

@Merudo, I think the biggest downsides to Greater Invisibility by RAW are the short duration (so you can't pre-cast it, which means it eats action economy during combat) and the fact that against many tough monsters it is useless (because blindsight or truesight). Depending on party situation, it may be better to cast Magic Weapon to more than double the fighter's DPR against weapon-resistant monsters, or Bless if there are multiple warriors who already have magic weapons. Tasha's summons aren't terrible, but if you're NOT fighting weapon-resistant monsters then I'd go with a nice pre-cast Elemental instead. Earth, Air, Fire, and Water are all nice in their own ways, although if you can get the DM to reliably give you a CR 5 Salamander by casting Conjure Elemental on a nice bonfire, that's probably the best possible summon, far better than any 5th level Tasha's summon.

[Frogreaver]

Quick back of napkin math

Haste is often a 33% increase in DPR.

Greater invisibility increased DPR by (1-chance to hit)%. That’s a 35% increase when you have a 65% chance to hit.

Tashas at minimum adds an extra attack. Can add 2 or 3 of them. Which right away makes it a stronger DPR buff than haste as long as the summon does DPR equal to a single attack of whatever character would be hasted. When the summon starts to make 2 attacks it’s better than haste as long as it’s doing more than half of the dpr of a single attack from the would be hasted character.

Gut says that puts Tashas summoning ahead.

*There’s also elemental weapon to consider and if without a magic weapon it in a level 5 slot can be a great DPR boost.

*it also depends on whether anyone else is buffing the would be buffed character. Most offensive Buffs are multiplicative together.

[Hael]

Summons or animate objects (if no resistances) are likely going to be larger dpr boosts than haste or GI. There will be edge cases, like possibly a rogue with haste and maybe a super yoked fighter with legendary weapons that could use advantage (and the foes don’t have true sight etc) but the summons are consistent, heavy duty dpr that can be sacrificed.

Of course, high lvl spells are a thing... meteor swarm kinda hurts.

[Frogreaver]

Summons or animate objects (if no resistances) are likely going to be larger dpr boosts than haste or GI. There will be edge cases, like possibly a rogue with haste and maybe a super yoked fighter with legendary weapons that could use advantage (and the foes don’t have true sight etc) but the summons are consistent, heavy duty dpr that can be sacrificed.

Of course, high lvl spells are a thing... meteor swarm kinda hurts.

Yes. The summons also last an hour as opposed to a minute which tends to make them a much more efficient spell. Turns out you need a fairly large edge case before the tashas summons spell lose out in DPR to any significant degree (assuming you are willing to upcast).

[Ir0ns0ul]

I had faced the same conundrum and I decided to go with Tasha’s summon mainly because of duration. By taking care of my Concentration and even healing my Ghostly Spirit at some point, I was able to enjoy the benefits of my summoning for three combats.

My Wizard is also a Necromancer, which greatly increases Summon Undead’s Ghostly Spirit durability and DPR.

[Gignere]

For sustained DPR nothing really beats the Tasha summons because they last so long.

However for burst DPR animate objects (tiny objects) is probably your best bet. Since it only takes up a bonus action (outside of your first turn) that still leaves you with the ability to cast another spell/attack each turn for additional damage.

[stoutstien]

Quick back of napkin math

Haste is often a 33% increase in DPR.

Greater invisibility increased DPR by (1-chance to hit)%. That’s a 35% increase when you have a 65% chance to hit.

Tashas at minimum adds an extra attack. Can add 2 or 3 of them. Which right away makes it a stronger DPR buff than haste as long as the summon does DPR equal to a single attack of whatever character would be hasted. When the summon starts to make 2 attacks it’s better than haste as long as it’s doing more than half of the dpr of a single attack from the would be hasted character.

Gut says that puts Tashas summoning ahead.

*There’s also elemental weapon to consider and if without a magic weapon it in a level 5 slot can be a great DPR boost.

*it also depends on whether anyone else is buffing the would be buffed character. Most offensive Buffs are multiplicative together.

Did they add ele weapon to the wizard list in TGtE?

Magic weapon is a cheap and impactful buff for anyone making multiple attacks.

[Gignere]

Did they add ele weapon to the wizard list in TGtE?

Magic weapon is a cheap and impactful buff for anyone making multiple attacks.

It’s limited by the fact it can only be cast on a non magical weapon. Unless you’re playing a really low magic game this is not something that you can cast on most martials favored weapon after a certain level because likely it will be a magic weapon.

[stoutstien]

It’s limited by the fact it can only be cast on a non magical weapon. Unless you’re playing a really low magic game this is not something that you can cast on most martials favored weapon after a certain level because likely it will be a magic weapon.

How likely? Unless it's 100% it something I personally wouldn't rely on if I have the choice. MW is that back pocket buff spell with a good duration and casting economy that also scales pretty well. Having the ability to turn any weapon into a magical one isn't flashy but speaking purely on best DPS buffs it definitely makes the list.

[Gignere]

How likely? Unless it's 100% it something I personally wouldn't rely on if I have the choice. MW is that back pocket buff spell with a good duration and casting economy that also scales pretty well. Having the ability to turn any weapon into a magical one isn't flashy but speaking purely on best DPS buffs it definitely makes the list.

I think every game I’ve played or DMed the martials were tricked out in magic weapons by level 5 or 6 at the latest. It’s why I can’t really recommend magic weapon spell.

[stoutstien]

I think every game I’ve played or DMed the martials were tricked out in magic weapons by level 5 or 6 at the latest. It’s why I can’t really recommend magic weapon spell.

In my experience it's closer to lv 13 and even then it's not like everyone has their preferred weapon. Half the classes offer magical weapons/damage as features for a reason.

[Eldariel]

Let's see:
- Haste doubles Rogue damage unless the Rogue has Booming Blade, in which case it's like a 76% damage increase on level 11 (which is the lowest). Notably even BB Rogue absolutely loves getting Haste from another source since that allows readying BB for off-turn hit (one can't ready spells with one's own Haste), though of course the advantage compared to a Rogue's innate Haste is lower. So on a given level, this amounts to "(Level/2 + 1)*3,5 + 9,5"ish damage, which is pretty competitive. However, it's worth remembering the other parts: the increased mobility is of potentially great value, to the point of occasionally trivialising encounters, and being able to Hide with the bonus action is great for many classes. You can only use this when you're certain you can maintain Concentration though: losing a round is just huge, especially on your DPR type.

- Greater Invisibility on a chassis without innate advantage (so not Barbarian or Samurai or such) amounts to about 33%-50% damage increase (but this really depends on details; e.g. SS/EA character with lots of attacks can get truly disgusting amounts of damage from this). But the issue is, there are lots of other sources of advantage starting from lowly Minor Illusion and Silent Image, not to mention prone/grapple and such so this is the most redundant since the condition can be gotten through other means. I'd say its defensive benefits are greater than the offensive though both are significant, of course. Generally not my favourite spell and not numerically the strongest (you're already able to familiar Help on one attack and e.g. Minor Illusion on another) but it's solid.

- Summon Undead is the easiest to quantify. Assuming 20 casting stat, in Tier 2-3 if you're using it for DPR, it's attacking 2 or 3 times for either 2d4+7 x2 (level 4 investment) or 2d4+9 (level 6 investment). DPR wise, other spell levels aren't sensible nor other modes. This has some nontangible benefits such as necrotic damage (often a great damage type), solid range (many parties might lack solid 150' damage dealers), ability to take other actions when damage isn't needed and such. Anyways, with our numbers above, level 4 cast adds 15 damage (or 20 with advantage) vs. AC 19 at +5 prof and +5 casting stat, level 6 cast adds 26 damage (or 37 damage with advantage). The fact that this can get advantage is a significant upside; damage-wise it's competitive with Haste from a level 6 slot but from level 4 slot, Haste Rogue is generally going to do more. I'd generally take this over Greater Invisibility if I were only interested in damage due to the intangibles.


Overall, purely DPR/slot economy-wise, if you have a Rogue, Haste is the best. Summon Undead is eventually better but takes much higher level slots so is less spammable. OTOH Summon Undead does way more. Frankly, I think both are worth having since they're suited for very different purposes but if I were to pick one, I'd still take Summon Undead for versatility.

I'd also like to mention Cloud of Daggers if you have any other CC types - with grapple or other CC spells, it can be a hideously powerful spell. Dragon's Breath is also a good one, adding up to a lot of damage over an encounter while taking a lowly level 2 slot and only a bonus action.

[noob]

Greater invisibility is great against the monsters that can not find the squares including invisible creatures but otherwise it is not great because you are spending a level 4 spell slot for advantage to attack rolls and disadvantage on opponent attack rolls toward a specific character.

[stoutstien]

Greater invisibility is great against the monsters that can not find the squares including invisible creatures but otherwise it is not great because you are spending a level 4 spell slot for advantage to attack rolls and disadvantage on opponent attack rolls toward a specific character.

Its pretty nice protection against a large portion of spells and magical effects that rely on sight assuming they don't have True or blind sight. Can also provide partial cover for allies while invisible to increase its defensive value.

[LudicSavant]

I'd also like to mention Cloud of Daggers if you have any other CC types - with grapple or other CC spells, it can be a hideously powerful spell.

Yeah mentioned this one above.

Wall of Fire is in a similar boat -- it doesn't allow a saving throw for those passing through it or ending their turn in the area, so it can absolutely shred things regardless of their saving throws.

[Merudo]

Summon Undead: Skeleton does on average 11 damage on a hit if casted as a level 3 spell, and 24 if casted as a level 4 spell.

A level 5 Rogue with 18 dex and a rapier will do 3d6 + 1d8 + 4 damage, or about 19 damage, with 4.5 extra damage if using Booming Blade. At level 7 and every level thereafter, the Rogue's damage increases by 3.5.

So casting Summon Undead is competitive DPR when upcasted to 4th level.

[MrStabby]

Yeah mentioned this one above.

Wall of Fire is in a similar boat -- it doesn't allow a saving throw for those passing through it or ending their turn in the area, so it can absolutely shred things regardless of their saving throws.

The trouble is that so many things that you would want this for - i.e. things with magic resistance, are also resistant/immune to fire.

[Hytheter]

For sustained DPR nothing really beats the Tasha summons because they last so long.

They last a long time in theory but in my experience the summon dies long before concnetration would be broken. That said, the ability to absorb damage so that the party doesn't have to is part of their value.

Which brings me to a point - these spells are all more than just DPR boosts. Haste grants amazing mobility and flexibility as well as a minor defensive boost. Greater Invisibility prevents you from being targeted by all kinds of effects and the fact it gives advantage (versus an extra attack) makes it great for critfishing if someone's built that way.

It matters a lot what your party comp is and what you expect to face.

[LudicSavant]

The trouble is that so many things that you would want this for - i.e. things with magic resistance, are also resistant/immune to fire.

More than half of creatures with Magic Resistance or Legendary Resistance do not have a Resistance or Immunity to Fire. For those that do, you simply cast one of the other spells in your repertoire.

Fire spells are only trouble if too many of your spells are fire-based. Every caster worth their spellbook should have a diversified portfolio, prepared to pierce a wide variety of defenses.

Note that all spells mentioned in this thread have counters, they just aren't Magic Resistance or Legendary Resistance. Just for some examples, Haste is extra vulnerable to anything that's sufficiently good at breaking Concentration, Greater Invisibility is vulnerable to all those things that can see invisible people, etc. It just means you use the different spells in different situations.

[Merudo]

They last a long time in theory but in my experience the summon dies long before concnetration would be broken.

Have you tried the ranged summons (Skeletal Undead & Beholderkin Aberration)?

They can hang out 150 feet in the back and be mostly untouched.

[DevilMcam]

How likely? Unless it's 100% it something I personally wouldn't rely on if I have the choice. MW is that back pocket buff spell with a good duration and casting economy that also scales pretty well. Having the ability to turn any weapon into a magical one isn't flashy but speaking purely on best DPS buffs it definitely makes the list.

Elemental weapon is not that stromg of a spell unless it is stacked with other things or can be used for several encounters.
However it can be prrety likely that one if the martials in the group don't have a magical weapon or at least one weak enough that having a good ol non magocal longsword to buff is still releveant.

It is espevially true of the PAMs and XbowXperts. Who don'thave acces to that many weapons and whos weapons type are fairly rare in the written modules.

As a matter of fact, my level 13 sorcadin's favorite weapon is a plain mundane longsword.

[borg286]

I think that general DPR analysis only gets you so far. The summon spells provide a good baseline to compare against but the answer is only known when you meet your party.
Odds are you will have someone with great weapon master where Greater Invisibility advantage has a greater DPR boost than someone that already has a fair chance of hitting. This DPR calculation changes if you are facing mooks.
If you have a rogue the DPR boost is the same. I think Greater Invisibility comes out ahead of the rogue has Booming Blade as the monster will likely move and if the rogue positioned themselves right they could have the opportunity attack occur after the booming blade's secondary damage was dealt. Haste also doesn't work with Booming Blade as it is a spell, not an attack, except a bladesinger it is. This they could lock down 2 people each round.
Then there are players that are playing an optimized build where they had to make tradeoffs for either getting an extra attack or advantage, for example a darkness hexblade warlock choosing between Hasting themselves or doing darkness. Now they get both.
A paladin may opt for spending more 1st and 2nd level slots on smite rather than blowing a 3rd level slot.
If there is a sorcerer then invest in a spell storing ring so they can cast using one of your spell slots and twin it while doing so. Depending on how thin their sorcery points are you may want to only do this with haste. Remind them that turning their 2nd level spell slots into points is the most effective.
We see that the DPR analysis is highly dependent on team makeup, and to a minor degree monster distribution and their ACs. But you should be able to decide between preparing haste and greater invisibility based on your team makeup.

Next we need to consider the nontangibles.
Greater Invisibility on a rogue has huge battlefield control as the threat of a sneak attack from a rogue that could be anywhere would make at least a few monsters stay put.
Greater Invisibility on the sharpshooter that didn't have a way to get advantage now gives him immunity from damage as he can simply wander about.
Haste on round 1 let's your striker get into position quicker and keep monsters away from the squishies.
The summons last 1 hour, and if you opt for summon Aberration (slaad) it can heal up between battles. The summons also have a healing aspect as they take damage rather than the party.