Gunner Feat Wonder

[Sigreid]

Just noted that a fighter with the gunner feat can fire a musket 4 times in a 6 second round at level 20. A skilled soldier IRL could fire 3-4 times a minute instead of the 40 times a minute our fighter can manage.

Just wanted to point out what an awesome sight that would be on the battlefield. :smallbiggrin:

[sayaijin]

With feats like this and XBE, I like to envision the player has a modified weapon that has multiple shots.

[heavyfuel]

With feats like this and XBE, I like to envision the player has a modified weapon that has multiple shots.

What happens if they lose their modded crossbow/gun and happen to find another?

[Grod_The_Giant]

With feats like this and XBE, I like to envision the player has a modified weapon that has multiple shots.
Pfffhh, it's a level 20 fighter. Firing a musket ten times faster than a common soldier is the least of what they should be able to do.

[Gignere]

Level 20 fighter with gunner feat is actually a powder mage.

[Sigreid]

I just thought I'd point it out because I find it to be an awesome image.

[sayaijin]

What happens if they lose their modded crossbow/gun and happen to find another?

Well, I also figure they have the capability to modify another one.

You could argue it's just something they should do, but I'm speaking about low magic or no magic campaigns which is what I assumed this was about.

[heavyfuel]

Well, I also figure they have the capability to modify another one.

You could argue it's just something they should do, but I'm speaking about low magic or no magic campaigns which is what I assumed this was about.

Okay, what if the new one was found mid-combat? Do they instantly modify it with no action cost, or do you tell your player "yeah, you can't use your feat until the next rest which is when you'll have time to mod your weapon"?

[Garfunion]

Okay, what if the new one was found mid-combat? Do they instantly modify it with no action cost, or do you tell your player "yeah, you can't use your feat until the next rest which is when you'll have time to mod your weapon"?
I can’t seem to find the scene right now but in the movie John Wick 3 he is in an old gun museum where, he quickly dismantles and puts a gun back together to make it work for him.

[Zhorn]

I can’t seem to find the scene right now but in the movie John Wick 3 he is in an old gun museum where, he quickly dismantles and puts a gun back together to make it work for him.

I got you covered
"John Wick 3 parabellum revolver assembly scene" on the Let's try channel on youtube.
I'd link, but since someone's shot in the head at the end of the clip I wasn't sure if that'd be a faux pas on the forum.

Anyway, it still takes a minute to do, so while it's reasonable to fluff between combats, it'd still take enough time to not be feasible during combat unless you can stall for 10 rounds.

On the one hand I like the fluff of explaining the high rate of fire as a weapon modification, but at the same time I'd feel like a jerk if I were to rule that the Fighter stops being able to use a mundane weapon for ALL of their attacks in the middle of combat due to a weapon swap that has nothing to do with actual rules mechanics.

[sayaijin]

Okay, what if the new one was found mid-combat? Do they instantly modify it with no action cost, or do you tell your player "yeah, you can't use your feat until the next rest which is when you'll have time to mod your weapon"?

I love the thought exercise! That being said, XBE and gunner both seem like "super human abilities" that don't jive well with low/no magic. I'm just telling you how I'd handle it if it was like the OP suggested.

[J-H]

There's always a 14-barrel gun with some kind of speedloader:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivdlcHUwaEw

[PattThe]

Pfffhh, it's a level 20 fighter. Firing a musket ten times faster than a common soldier is the least of what they should be able to do.

This. A "hero" token is definitively super-human and far outclasses the power levels of the most decorated soldiers in history. Mythical gods channel even more power than that- as do things like demon lords, and throw enough hero tokens at them and they'll crumble. Firing a gun at five times the non-magical world's limits is not too difficult of an excuse for me to use here.

[quindraco]

4? A samurai going nova with access to a killswitch (needs to be able to die using only move + free use object + free - so ideally a ludicrously lethal poison pill) shoots 18 times before anyone else can, 20 with Haste. Now that's serious business.

Math: 4 base, rapid strike 5, action surge 9, Strength Before Death 18. Haste is 1 base, 2 with SBD.

I'm a big fan of Ludic's build for that - half-elf samurai with gunner, elven accuracy, and piercer for dex 20, plus sharpshooter.

[PattThe]

4? A samurai going nova with access to a killswitch (needs to be able to die using only move + free use object + free - so ideally a ludicrously lethal poison pill) shoots 18 times before anyone else can, 20 with Haste. Now that's serious business.

Math: 4 base, rapid strike 5, action surge 9, Strength Before Death 18. Haste is 1 base, 2 with SBD.

I'm a big fan of Ludic's build for that - half-elf samurai with gunner, elven accuracy, and piercer for dex 20, plus sharpshooter.

Now how to get all of that off after casting Time Stop.. :smallcool:

[heavyfuel]

I can’t seem to find the scene right now but in the movie John Wick 3 he is in an old gun museum where, he quickly dismantles and puts a gun back together to make it work for him.

If we're at the point where the Fighter can quickly mod a gun to shoot 20 times faster (see quindraco's comment), you might as well just say the Fighter's just super fast at attacking. Modding a gun to that extend is not really more believable than just reloading super fast.

[Akkristor]

He just loads 4 shots into the gun at once and fires all of them out at the same time.



They call it "Gunner" but it's really "Hold my beer and watch this!"

[sayaijin]

I completely agree that level 20 fighters should be super human and have super human abilities. That being said, it sounded like OP was trying to envision what that would look like, and depending on the kind of campaign they want to run (lots of magic vs no magic), it might be easier to just have a multi-barreled gun.

[Sigreid]

I completely agree that level 20 fighters should be super human and have super human abilities. That being said, it sounded like OP was trying to envision what that would look like, and depending on the kind of campaign they want to run (lots of magic vs no magic), it might be easier to just have a multi-barreled gun.

Yes, I was kind of trying to envision what they would look like. Maybe holding the powder horn in his mouth, drop the ball, tip the horn and slam the but of the gun into the ground to set the round and fire.

Just seems pretty wow is all.

[Corran]

Just noted that a fighter with the gunner feat can fire a musket 4 times in a 6 second round at level 20. A skilled soldier IRL could fire 3-4 times a minute instead of the 40 times a minute our fighter can manage.

Just wanted to point out what an awesome sight that would be on the battlefield. :smallbiggrin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiLPDUNpPIw
The only logical explanation is that the gunner feat allows you to modify your musket enough for it to become a machine gun.

[Sigreid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiLPDUNpPIw
The only logical explanation is that the gunner feat allows you to modify your musket enough for it to become a machine gun.

Yes, but D&D isn't logic, it's mythology.

[PattThe]

I completely agree that level 20 fighters should be super human and have super human abilities. That being said, it sounded like OP was trying to envision what that would look like, and depending on the kind of campaign they want to run (lots of magic vs no magic), it might be easier to just have a multi-barreled gun.
I prefer relying on the concept of "the laws of physics break down when you look too closely at anything" and suggest that when looking for the actual physicality of a 20th level character's actions "too closely" is the weapon's effective firing range.. :smallbiggrin:

[sayaijin]

One thing I love about TTRPG is that we can have both. Some of us want the guy who can shoot a musket several times in a period of 6 seconds using only his sheer superhuman skill, and some of us want a guy who can shoot a musket that quickly because he modified it. Choose whichever kind of campaign you want!

[Anonymouswizard]

Pfffhh, it's a level 20 fighter. Firing a musket ten times faster than a common soldier is the least of what they should be able to do.

For a media example, Guts from Berserk is sometimes consisted a 10th level fighter, and he's able to survive ridiculous harm and wield a sword that probably weights more then he does (and Guts is not exactly small). Somebody ten b levels higher than that just being able to pour powder and ram a bullet down a barrel that fast is perfectly believable to me.


Level 20 fighter with gunner feat is actually a powder mage.

Heh, Powder Mage would make a brilliant subclass for a fighter. Burn additional attack's worth of powder to ignore range penalties or get additional damage dice, reroll missed attacks, tricks like Tamas's bullet swarm...

You'd probably balance against use every round


Although for an in-world explanation that isn't 'they're just that fast' I'd go for the ammunition rather than the gun. Pre-measured powder, some kind of truck for getting the bullet down the barrel in under a second, and the practice to do all of this in their sleep. Then you don't have to have muskets morph into pepperboxes as soon as the character picks one up.

[sayaijin]

Although for an in-world explanation that isn't 'they're just that fast' I'd go for the ammunition rather than the gun. Pre-measured powder, some kind of truck for getting the bullet down the barrel in under a second, and the practice to do all of this in their sleep. Then you don't have to have muskets morph into pepperboxes as soon as the character picks one up.

How often do you all actually break your players weapons? From some of the comments on this thread it seems like they're swapping out their gear every fight.

[Anonymouswizard]

How often do you all actually break your players weapons? From some of the comments on this thread it seems like they're swapping out their gear every fight.

Me? Very rarely most games, I'm content with tracking ammunition and strictly enforcing load times (and after enough issues now I track your bullets). Losing and having to scavenge is more common in my hand, and even that's relatively rare (most likely to happen as part of a failed roll to jump a pit or the like). You fail that Athletics roll by two and bye-bye pepperbox musket hope you broght a spare.