RP advice needed

[Sirithhyando]

Hi everyone,

I’d like some advice on how to RP a situation that could result in pvp.

My character, a sailor fighter arcane archer (only one trained in arcana, doesn’t have spell slots, it’s funny); Neutral
The other one is a LG Paladin

Here’s what happened:

We are in a cave full of cultists, everyone is an enemy to the fighter eyes.
The Paladin wanted to gather info from a group of guards that were coming though he didn’t told us in advance.
The fighter killed all of them in a very successful ambush.
Paladin voiced his opinion on the matter.
The fighter agrees to wait for the Paladin to say if he can kill or not next time.

Next time, the Paladin decided to talk to the next group and we took a long reste with them.
The fighter stayed a little out of the way. The enemies ambushed us during the night (obviously), but the sound of the fight never woke up the fighter. They all nearly died.
Fighter finally woke up. His first round, he asked the Paladin if he could kill them, 2nd round, the fighter killed the last enemy.

As players, we all laughed about it, it was funny.

But this session, the Paladin is really angered at the fighter. That’s where we left off last session.

I’m unsure how to approach it.

A little more about the fighter. He’s only ever happy when having the sea in sight, he’s been a sailor most of his life. They’ve been too long in the mountains and now those caves. He’s irritable.

How would you approach this?

Thanks

[JonBeowulf]

I'm pretty sure it's fixable.

However, from a player perspective, I don't know why you killed the last guy instead of shouting, "Surrender or join your friends in the afterlife!" If he continues to fight, kill him on round 3. (You're a ranged guy, so 0 hp = unconscious is not an option.)

In character, we didn't get the paladin's response to your request to kill them. If he said "yes", then he has nothing to complain about... he should have been more precise, "Yes, but leave one alive" would have prevented it. You knew the paladin wanted to talk to these guys, but you're also quite irritable and you just awoke to the sounds of combat which was completely due to the paladin's mostly dumb idea of letting the enemy join your camp. You separated yourself from the rest of the group, so I assume you expected things to go this way. I can actually hear you saying, "Can I kill them NOW?"

And finally, if the paladin was better at paladin-ing he wouldn't have needed you to pull his butt out of the fire.

Now for how I'd handle it. I'd be apologetic but expect the paladin to understand the situation. "Look, I'm sorry they're all dead, but we were losing. I'm not risking my companions because you want to talk to the enemy. Perhaps I should have left one alive but I didn't think of that in the heat of battle, and that's on me. And don't worry, we're surely going to encounter more of these guys."

[Segev]

I'm unclear on why the Paladin is mad. Did the fighter not wait for the Paladin's answer? Why didn't the Paladin answer right away, if so?

[Kurt Kurageous]

Hi everyone,

I’d like some advice on how to RP a situation that could result in pvp.

I know this is too late but this is an avoidable problem if the DM had just specified "no PVP, ever" in session zero. I know I do.

To do this, you have to have the players build characters that are not self-sufficient and rely on a team to succeed, and have personalities that can play well with others. Edgelords and solo acts need not apply. The trend lately is more self sufficient classes/subclasses, which is anathema.

Further, you also tell the players that characters may have secrets, but players cannot. I'm not passing notes in a game as your DM, ever.

Why no PVP ever? Its not fun for everyone, it's not moving the story forward, and it serves no clear narrative purpose.

[Kurt Kurageous]

I'm pretty sure it's fixable.

However, from a player perspective, I don't know why you killed the last guy instead of shouting, "Surrender or join your friends in the afterlife!" If he continues to fight, kill him on round 3. (You're a ranged guy, so 0 hp = unconscious is not an option.)

In character, we didn't get the paladin's response to your request to kill them. If he said "yes", then he has nothing to complain about... he should have been more precise, "Yes, but leave one alive" would have prevented it. You knew the paladin wanted to talk to these guys, but you're also quite irritable and you just awoke to the sounds of combat which was completely due to the paladin's mostly dumb idea of letting the enemy join your camp. You separated yourself from the rest of the group, so I assume you expected things to go this way. I can actually hear you saying, "Can I kill them NOW?"

And finally, if the paladin was better at paladin-ing he wouldn't have needed you to pull his butt out of the fire.

Now for how I'd handle it. I'd be apologetic but expect the paladin to understand the situation. "Look, I'm sorry they're all dead, but we were losing. I'm not risking my companions because you want to talk to the enemy. Perhaps I should have left one alive but I didn't think of that in the heat of battle, and that's on me. And don't worry, we're surely going to encounter more of these guys."

I think the paladin is upset because he doesn't have speak with dead.

[Unoriginal]

But this session, the Paladin is really angered at the fighter. That’s where we left off last session.


Why is he really angered this session?

[Sirithhyando]

I'm pretty sure it's fixable.

However, from a player perspective, I don't know why you killed the last guy instead of shouting, "Surrender or join your friends in the afterlife!" If he continues to fight, kill him on round 3. (You're a ranged guy, so 0 hp = unconscious is not an option.)

In character, we didn't get the paladin's response to your request to kill them. If he said "yes", then he has nothing to complain about... he should have been more precise, "Yes, but leave one alive" would have prevented it. You knew the paladin wanted to talk to these guys, but you're also quite irritable and you just awoke to the sounds of combat which was completely due to the paladin's mostly dumb idea of letting the enemy join your camp. You separated yourself from the rest of the group, so I assume you expected things to go this way. I can actually hear you saying, "Can I kill them NOW?"

And finally, if the paladin was better at paladin-ing he wouldn't have needed you to pull his butt out of the fire.

Now for how I'd handle it. I'd be apologetic but expect the paladin to understand the situation. "Look, I'm sorry they're all dead, but we were losing. I'm not risking my companions because you want to talk to the enemy. Perhaps I should have left one alive but I didn't think of that in the heat of battle, and that's on me. And don't worry, we're surely going to encounter more of these guys."
Well, since I asked while they were getting beaten up, he answered : « what do you think? »
So yeah, the « can I kill them now » was a funny part of that session :)

Thanks for the answer, I’ll keep that in mind tonight :)


I'm unclear on why the Paladin is mad. Did the fighter not wait for the Paladin's answer? Why didn't the Paladin answer right away, if so?
Oh he answered right away but the fighter literally just woke up from a nice nap and the paladin was already being annoying so he took his time.
The mad part is that the fighter did nothing up to the very end of the fight.
Of course, the fighter was asleep, but, oh well.
The attitude when he woke up didn’t help too.
And considering he was already on edge with the fighter for the earlier massacre, it didn’t take much.
He’s probably pissed that he got beaten up that badly too lol

Btw, this is all in-character, there’s no hard feeling between the players lol


I know this is too late but this is an avoidable problem if the DM had just specified "no PVP, ever" in session zero. I know I do.

To do this, you have to have the players build characters that are not self-sufficient and rely on a team to succeed, and have personalities that can play well with others. Edgelords and solo acts need not apply. The trend lately is more self sufficient classes/subclasses, which is anathema.

Further, you also tell the players that characters may have secrets, but players cannot. I'm not passing notes in a game as your DM, ever.

Why no PVP ever? Its not fun for everyone, it's not moving the story forward, and it serves no clear narrative purpose.
Yeah, the game is started on secrecy. Every character got his own thing to do that others doesn’t really know.
We’re all from different secret organizations working together on a common goal with some side-goals.
Though right now in this mountain, those goals are irrelevant. To the fighter at least, not sure for the others.


Why is he really angered this session?
It’s pretty much for not being there when the group needed him.
Of course they could’ve simply wake him up lol

[Sirithhyando]

Oh and if there’s any pvp, it’s going to be words and a slap of two
Which put the fighter at a disadvantage with the enormous strength of the paladin lol
It’s going to take 5 minutes in the session :P

Btw: we’re all lvl13

[Segev]

Well, RP-wise, from just hearing what you've said about it, I think the Paladin's being unreasonable. "I didn't wake you up, but I'm mad that you slept. And you did what I asked, but I'm still mad at you."

No idea how I'd recommend playing it out, because this is about what kinds of people you want your characters to be, not about giving advice on how to work things out IRL. ^^;

[Unoriginal]

Well, RP-wise, from just hearing what you've said about it, I think the Paladin's being unreasonable. "I didn't wake you up, but I'm mad that you slept. And you did what I asked, but I'm still mad at you."

If I were the Fighter I would go "I did what you wanted, don't blame me for your poor decisions."

If the Paladin keeps getting mad at the Fighter they probably need a character development arc relatived to their anger flaw.

[da newt]

Throw out an olive branch - suggest to the Pali that you change to rules from "you have to ask, and he has to grant permission for you to engage the enemy" to "I promise I'll stop attacking if you tell me to."

[Lunali]

Unless the fighter was faking or very very out of the way, how did he manage to stay asleep through combat? Combat is loud, people yelling, metal hitting metal, casters chanting spells etc. It's one thing if one side is ambushed by people trying to be quiet and never gets a chance, but once someone survives a hit, things get loud fast. To be far enough away that I would even have someone bother rolling perception, they'd have to be far enough away that they wouldn't be able to attack by the second round without burning an action surge or two on dashing.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Sounds like you're both melee. Agree to a friendly match once the dust has cleared to 'let off some steam'. Preferably in the glow of a setting sun atop a mountain. Something real cinematic.

Win or lose, have a heart to heart, something like "I don't really care about the wellbeing of bad people, but if it means that much to you, I'll try letting them live. But when push comes to shove, I'm going to choose us over a bunch of evil cultists. Is that fine by you?"

[micahaphone]

How did you sleep through a fight? Were I the DM I'd say that round 1 you're awake, but on the ground without armor or bow at the ready, at most you'd lose one turn to scrambling up to fighting stance.

[Dienekes]

Is it possible to talk with your Paladin player about it? This seems like prime material for antagonistic rivalries and inter party conflicts if you’re into that sort of thing.

One of my favorite RPs ever involved myself and a fellow player both having our characters despise each other but grew more and more similar over the course of the game. It was a lot of fun, but it required that the other player and myself discussed the steps in this growing rivalry outside the game, then implemented it in game as situations fit.

[Sirithhyando]

If I were the Fighter I would go "I did what you wanted, don't blame me for your poor decisions."

If the Paladin keeps getting mad at the Fighter they probably need a character development arc relatived to their anger flaw.
That’s probably closer to what will happen. It’s always fun to annoy a pally ;)
Kidding aside, the fighter is irritable from being too long underground. So that’s definitely a good way to come at it.



Unless the fighter was faking or very very out of the way, how did he manage to stay asleep through combat? Combat is loud, people yelling, metal hitting metal, casters chanting spells etc. It's one thing if one side is ambushed by people trying to be quiet and never gets a chance, but once someone survives a hit, things get loud fast. To be far enough away that I would even have someone bother rolling perception, they'd have to be far enough away that they wouldn't be able to attack by the second round without burning an action surge or two on dashing.


How did you sleep through a fight? Were I the DM I'd say that round 1 you're awake, but on the ground without armor or bow at the ready, at most you'd lose one turn to scrambling up to fighting stance.
For the sleeping, I guess it depends on the DM. The fighter was around 70-80’ from the fight. They were all monk so no steel on steel and not much chanting (spells).
We were exhausted, so DM made me do a constitution save to see if I’d wake up from the amount of noise. After 2 failures, he made me do them with advantage but I still continuously failed those.
+7 to my save and that way I still slept after7 or 8 rounds, not sure... anyway we, the players, were laughing a lot by how deeply the fighter was sleeping lol


Is it possible to talk with your Paladin player about it? This seems like prime material for antagonistic rivalries and inter party conflicts if you’re into that sort of thing.

One of my favorite RPs ever involved myself and a fellow player both having our characters despise each other but grew more and more similar over the course of the game. It was a lot of fun, but it required that the other player and myself discussed the steps in this growing rivalry outside the game, then implemented it in game as situations fit.
Oh that’s actually a really cool idea.
In the end, they do share the same goal, and obviously not the same thoughts on how to get there lol

[Lunali]

For the sleeping, I guess it depends on the DM. The fighter was around 70-80’ from the fight. They were all monk so no steel on steel and not much chanting (spells).
We were exhausted, so DM made me do a constitution save to see if I’d wake up from the amount of noise. After 2 failures, he made me do them with advantage but I still continuously failed those.
+7 to my save and that way I still slept after7 or 8 rounds, not sure... anyway we, the players, were laughing a lot by how deeply the fighter was sleeping lol

I assumed the paladin was wearing steel armor, which in almost every case means steel on steel, even if the opponents aren't using weapons. Even so, I would assume the other members of the party aren't intentionally fighting quietly. Even if they were, it should be a saving throw with every hit landed to not scream loud enough to wake the fighter.