Diablo 1/2

[Jinura]

So im thinking about getting this game after trying it out at a friends house and i wanna know if there is some story elemtents in the first so i need to play that first before playing the second one. Also wich is the better for online play?

[Winterwind]

Yes, there is a story element linking the two. It is comparatively simple though, and not strictly needed for understanding the plot of D2. More important would be the manual of D1, which provides a much better introduction into the world of Diablo, but I think you could go without it.

As for the games themselves, D1 has superior atmosphere and music, D2 has superior gameplay (due to much more variety in its characters) and has a significantly larger community, hence would probably be better suited for online play (also, the limit of players in a game is twice as high as in D1).

[Tor the Fallen]

IMO, Diablo I is better. The story is well told, and the atmosphere is creepy. The music is great, the NPCs memorable. And the forbidden tomes you find down there.... The experience is much more conducive to the story.

Diablo 2 has a much, much more active online community. The story elements of Diablo 1 aren't required to understand the major story elements of Diablo 2, but they help with the little things. Like why you can loot Wirt's corpse for a peg leg and a ton of gold, or who the hirelings are.

[Winterwind]

Or how the Dark Wanderer came to be. :smallamused:

[Tor the Fallen]

You know, I started playing Diablo 1 with no idea of anything, just learning how to play and the story as I went along. Definitely an immersive experience.

[Winterwind]

It most definitely is. The manual tells the story as it happened, but in the game, the people assume your character doesn't know anything about what transpired, and tell you everything from an in-game perspective.

I mean, the Greater Evil is not even as much as mentioned by them until you defeat the traitorous archbishop - and the fear in Cain's voice when he finally utters the Evil's name still sends shivers down my spine. :smalleek:

[Mordan]

You can play the entire second game with no knowledge of the first. The key story elements, such as the explanation of the Dark Wanderer are all told in the second game through the cut scenes and between chapter movies, though to get the full story the expansion is pretty much required. Sure, you miss out on the inside jokes (the armor turned Zombie guarding Cain, Wirt's leg, the unusually large sum of gold on Wirt's corpse) but even those are minor in comparison to the rest of the story, and once you get past the first part of the first chapter (ie rescuing Cain) there is little more knowledge necessary to complete the game.

I still find the cutscene showing the origins of the Dark Wanderer haunting in it's retelling and the added imagery is amazing. You can almost feel the pain endured as ******************. Okay, I won't say it, but if you're played it, you know what I'm talking about, and if you are yet to play it, you'll understand when you see it. What a way to contain the ultimate evil!

[Setra]

Yeah, that scene was incredible.

Scared the heck outta me, of course the first time I saw it I was like 8.

Wish I could get my friends to play Diablo *sigh*

[Khanderas]

It it is a question about Diablo 1 or Diablo 2, the answer is without a doubt, Diablo 2. The gameplay, graphics, size, community (because bigger is better in this case), options and pretty much everything is one or two steps better.
But do play Diablo 1, it still is a keeper and nowadays almost free.

[Winterwind]

D2 music is worse, in my humble opinion. D1 had these creepy effects with human cries and demonic laughter in the background, really built up atmosphere. In D2, the only theme I find really adding to the atmosphere is the one from the harem (which is for this reason alone my favourite part in D2).

The graphics are better, but significantly brighter, too, less scary.

And what the townsfolk say is significantly less immersive and doesn't try as hard to build up suspense. In D1 nobody even as much as utters Diablo's name (in fact, Cain is the only one who knows of him), which really makes him into a horrible, unspeakable entity. In D2? Every merchant mentions the Lord of Terror's name casually.

Otherwise, in regards to community, options and so forth, agreed.

[Morty]

I've played Diablo 2 with only vaguely knowing what happened in the first one. It doesn't make the game any worse, as the story, while nice, is secondary to the fight.
As for which game is better, I really don't know. Diablo 1 has got much better atmosphere and music, but Diablo 2 is longer, more complex and classes are more different. Atmosphere in Diablo 2 is similiar to the first game in 1st act, later it gets significantly watered down. Even in 1st act not-that-good actors didn't really help.
On a related note, which classes are your favorite in both games? I've personally liked Necromancer ever since I saw Diablo 2, and got through game twice with this class.

[Winterwind]

I tend to like close-in fighters. Hence, in Diablo 1, the Warrior.

In Diablo 2, I enjoyed the Paladin the most. My favourite variant was the Avenger - Vengeance for a tri-elemental attack, and Conviction aura to ruin the enemies' resistances. Also really effective if a Sorceress is present, since her damage is suddenly several times higher. And since there aren't many using that build, chances are that you can contribute even though you don't play (or cheat; no way do I believe that many Enigma runewords and what not as one sees on BattleNet were found legitimately) enough to have high-end equipment, since no one else will be using this aura.

[Amiria]

I never really got into Diablo II, never played past Act II iirc. The game is too long, too complex for my taste. The ability tree system didn't impress me and you can really mess up your character with the wrong choices there.

And all the stuff, with so many diffrent items and enchantments ro them and socketed items and gems and runes ... is this really necessary ? Diablo I was complex enough there was imo.

In diablo I my favorite character is rogue. This changed in Diablo II because the developers had the crazy idea that you now really have to buy and carry your ammunition around. :smallconfused: I mostly played Barbarian in Diablo II.

Oh, btw Winterwind. I'm back for whatever.

[Winterwind]

I never really got into Diablo II, never played past Act II iirc. The game is too long, too complex for my taste. The ability tree system didn't impress me and you can really mess up your character with the wrong choices there.Even worse, a previously well built character could possibly be invalidated by a patch which completely changed balance. Not an issue now anymore, of course.


And all the stuff, with so many diffrent items and enchantments ro them and socketed items and gems and runes ... is this really necessary ? Diablo I was complex enough there was imo.I very rarely used sockets, rune words and crafting ever. Some cheap runewords to boost Magic Find and Resistances, sometimes, or an added socket to a good Unique item with a damage boosting jewel, but mostly, this stuff played little relevance to me.
What I also like better about D1 is that you actually have a chance to get top equiment without cheating. In D2? No chance. The probability of better runes dropping is 1:several million, and that's for the few Unique enemies who can drop them. Unique items are slightly better, but still nigh impossible to find. In D1 you can hope that, sooner or later, you will get that Stormshield or an Obsidian Ring of Zodiac, or whatever; in D2, you may have luck and find one or two good items, if you play long, but the really good stuff? That's apparently only for the dupers and bot-users.


In diablo I my favorite character is rogue. This changed in Diablo II because the developers had the crazy idea that you now really have to buy and carry your ammunition around. :smallconfused: I mostly played Barbarian in Diablo II.Well, in D1, ammunition is implemented by your bow's durability degrading over time when you use it. But yeah, that's still more comfortable.


Oh, btw Winterwind. I'm back for whatever.All right, comin'. :smallsmile:

[Morty]

Even worse, a previously well built character could possibly be invalidated by a patch which completely changed balance. Not an issue now anymore, of course.


I was myself preety annoyed when I got back to Diablo 2 after some time and seen that newest patch made the range of Necromancer's curses quite pitiful. Now it's preety impossible to use Amplify Damage(or whatever it's called, 1st level curse) on more than one or two enemies. Other curses were slapped down as well. All in all, I prefered the un-patched version much better.

[Jinura]

Sounds like i will get the second

[Setra]

I very rarely used sockets, rune words and crafting ever. Some cheap runewords to boost Magic Find and Resistances, sometimes, or an added socket to a good Unique item with a damage boosting jewel, but mostly, this stuff played little relevance to me.
What I also like better about D1 is that you actually have a chance to get top equiment without cheating. In D2? No chance. The probability of better runes dropping is 1:several million, and that's for the few Unique enemies who can drop them. Unique items are slightly better, but still nigh impossible to find. In D1 you can hope that, sooner or later, you will get that Stormshield or an Obsidian Ring of Zodiac, or whatever; in D2, you may have luck and find one or two good items, if you play long, but the really good stuff? That's apparently only for the dupers and bot-users.You're kidding right? I've found zillions of incredible items in D2, and runes aren't THAT rare (especially since you can combine them to make the better ones).


Well, in D1, ammunition is implemented by your bow's durability degrading over time when you use it. But yeah, that's still more comfortable.

I actually prefer D2's method. At least that way I know how many shots I'll be getting, not to mention I'm fairly sure most bows don't even GET 350 shots, nor the ability to get more ammo in the middle of a dungeon short of finding a new bow entirely.

In any case, I always played a Rogue in D1, despite my natural like for casters.

Sounds like i will get the second
Just get the Battlechest.

[Winterwind]

You're kidding right? I've found zillions of incredible items in D2, and runes aren't THAT rare (especially since you can combine them to make the better ones).Define incredible, and tell me which runes you mean.
How many runes, for instance, have you found that were Ist or above? Enigma contains runes like Ber and Jah - you would have to unite dozens of Ist runes to get that - not that you would find that many Ist runes, just using these as example since they are the highest runes you can hope to find in any significant numbers (since the Countess drops them with increased probability). Gul is the highest you can hope for in the second Hell quest. But that's rare, and still faaaar away from a Jah rune.
As for items - how many Grandfathers, Buriza-Do-Kyanon, Titan's Revenge, Arkaine's Valour, Herold of Zakarum, Areat's Face or other items of that kind have you found? How many of the class-specific sets have you completed? The latter are actually even somewhat feasible, if one invests a couple dozen hours into the game (read: Makes MF runs for several hours each day straight for two or three weeks).
If we are talking this kind of items and runes, and you still have found zillions of these, then kudos to you - you must have mastered some aspect of the game much better than I or any of my friends ever did, and I had a sorceress once which had something around Magic Find 600%. In that case...
...how did you do that? :smalleek:


I actually prefer D2's method. At least that way I know how many shots I'll be getting, not to mention I'm fairly sure most bows don't even GET 350 shots, nor the ability to get more ammo in the middle of a dungeon short of finding a new bow entirely.They do. Many Unique bows are indestructible, hence don't use up any kind of ammo, and normal bows have about 30-60 points durability, with each durability point being worth roughly 40 arrows, which means you get 1200-2400 shots out of a bow.

[Mephisto]

Agreed that Diablo I has the better atmosphere, but the Harem in Act II and the Jail in Act I come close. Regarding what somebody said upthread, it makes sense that everybody is talking about Diablo being loose. After what happened in Tristram, people would know that he's about, and he's not being nearly as subtle as he was in Diablo I.

Anyway, I like Diablo II better because it has a more epic feel to it, chasing a horrible evil across continents and finally into the depths of Hell. The class system is also much better, as in the first game the only real difference was attack/cast rates.

Anyway, my favorite class/type is probably a werewolf druid. Not that optimized, but fun as hell to play. I also have fun with a mindbender necromancer (confuse/attract curses, watch a pack of flayers tear each other apart).

[Setra]

They do. Many Unique bows are indestructible, hence don't use up any kind of ammo, and normal bows have about 30-60 points durability, with each durability point being worth roughly 40 arrows, which means you get 1200-2400 shots out of a bow.
No way, I've fired off bows that lost durability with ten or less shots before.

Define incredible, and tell me which runes you mean.
How many runes, for instance, have you found that were Ist or above? Enigma contains runes like Ber and Jah - you would have to unite dozens of Ist runes to get that - not that you would find that many Ist runes, just using these as example since they are the highest runes you can hope to find in any significant numbers (since the Countess drops them with increased probability). Gul is the highest you can hope for in the second Hell quest. But that's rare, and still faaaar away from a Jah rune.Runewise, to put it bluntly.. I've made Breath of the dying.

I'll let you see where that train of thought leads.


As for items - how many Grandfathers, Buriza-Do-Kyanon, Titan's Revenge, Arkaine's Valour, Herold of Zakarum, Areat's Face or other items of that kind have you found? How many of the class-specific sets have you completed? The latter are actually even somewhat feasible, if one invests a couple dozen hours into the game (read: Makes MF runs for several hours each day straight for two or three weeks).
If we are talking this kind of items and runes, and you still have found zillions of these, then kudos to you - you must have mastered some aspect of the game much better than I or any of my friends ever did, and I had a sorceress once which had something around Magic Find 600%. In that case...
...how did you do that? :smalleek:

Those items kinda suck if you ask me, but I have found a Grandfather, among other things.

I've completed Trang-Ouls, the Immortal King, Tal Rashas, and a few other minor sets.

Also, I rarely have magic find about, say, 50%.

Of course after I lost everything I kinda got bored of playing.

Also, admittedly, I didn't find everything, a lot was from trading.. but in the end getting items is getting items, if you ask me.

[Winterwind]

Agreed that Diablo I has the better atmosphere, but the Harem in Act II and the Jail in Act I come close. Regarding what somebody said upthread, it makes sense that everybody is talking about Diablo being loose. After what happened in Tristram, people would know that he's about, and he's not being nearly as subtle as he was in Diablo I.That's true, and I don't complain so much about them speaking about him. What I mind, though, is that they speak without any awe about him. How do you speak about the Lord of Terror, yet are not afraid?
...Though I admit that this might have been purely the fault of the German speakers, I don't know how the English version sounds. Quite probably better. For some reason, they didn't even manage to get the speaker they had for Cain when Lord of Destruction came out, so from Diablo's destruction onwards, throughout Act V, Cain speaks with the voice of Ormus instead. :smalleek:


Anyway, my favorite class/type is probably a werewolf druid. Not that optimized, but fun as hell to play. I also have fun with a mindbender necromancer (confuse/attract curses, watch a pack of flayers tear each other apart).That was my favourite kind of druid as well. :smallsmile:


No way, I've fired off bows that lost durability with ten or less shots before.It's random. The probability that the bow will lose 1 point durability is 1/40 with every shot.


Runewise, to put it bluntly.. I've made Breath of the dying.

I'll let you see where that train of thought leads.


Those items kinda suck if you ask me, but I have found a Grandfather, among other things.

I've completed Trang-Ouls, the Immortal King, Tal Rashas, and a few other minor sets.

Also, I rarely have magic find about, say, 50%.

Of course after I lost everything I kinda got bored of playing.

Also, admittedly, I didn't find everything, a lot was from trading.. but in the end getting items is getting items, if you ask me.Okay... how? :smalleek:
A friend of mine played that game (with a massive MF bonus) for, like, 5 hours each day for two months, and he didn't even come close to find all of this... and we're not even talking about Breath of the Dying here.

[Setra]

Cain sounds like Sean Connery in the American version :smalltongue:

Edit: Also, Wind Druids are made of awesome and Win.

[Winterwind]

Cain sounds like Sean Connery in the American version :smalltongue:That's cool. :smallbiggrin:
Although nothing, nothing whatsoever, can compare with Griswolds Scottish accent from D1. Pure win. :smallbiggrin:


Edit: Also, Wind Druids are made of awesome and Win.Haven't played that brand of druid yet. Ah, there's so many kinds of characters yet waiting to be tried out some time.

Also, editted a reply to your previous post into my last one.

[Setra]

It's random. The probability that the bow will lose 1 point durability is 1/40 with every shot.Oh...

Okay... how? :smalleek:
A friend of mine played that game (with a massive MF bonus) for, like, 5 hours each day for two months, and he didn't even come close to find all of this... and we're not even talking about Breath of the Dying here.
Good luck? Lots of friends who hold no value over lower level runes? Lots of ranks in diplomacy?

A lot of people value Stones of Jordan a lot, I've found a few of those, one netted me the Zod I needed for BotD.

Haven't played that brand of druid yet. Ah, there's so many kinds of characters yet waiting to be tried out some time.
The Wind Druids I make tend to be ridiculously strong

A full Hurricane Synergy does about 1000 dps, and Tornado can deal about 2K... before adding in items with +skills. Not to mention the large amounts of amage I block with Cyclone armor (over 1K)

Of course I'm right screwed against a Cold+Physical immune.

[Maxymiuk]

Okay... how? :smalleek:
A friend of mine played that game (with a massive MF bonus) for, like, 5 hours each day for two months, and he didn't even come close to find all of this... and we're not even talking about Breath of the Dying here.

Maybe he went on Mephisto runs? That's what I tend to do once I get to a high enough level. He's a fairly easy to kill act boss with a relatively high chance to drop set, unique, and other high-end items. By comparison Andariel mainly drops gems, Duriel doesn't even respawn, I believe, and the other two take fighting through absolute hordes of monsters to even access.

[Winterwind]

Good luck? Lots of friends who hold no value over lower level runes? Lots of ranks in diplomacy?Yeah, I see how these would help. :smallbiggrin:


A lot of people value Stones of Jordan a lot, I've found a few of those, one netted me the Zod I needed for BotD.Stone of Jordan is yet another thing we didn't find even once.
A SoJ for a Zod? That was an unbelievably good deal for you.


The Wind Druids I make tend to be ridiculously strong

A full Hurricane Synergy does about 1000 dps, and Tornado can deal about 2K... before adding in items with +skills. Not to mention the large amounts of amage I block with Cyclone armor (over 1K)

Of course I'm right screwed against a Cold+Physical immune.What do you think, what would be the highest damage output feasible? I think I'd go with a pure-elemental Fire Sorc, that's a couple ten thousand damage points with every Meteor, and a ton with the Fireballs in between (haven't played too long to remember the exact magnitude). Screwed against half of all enemies though, and a couple rather common ones to boot.


Maybe he went on Mephisto runs? That's what I tend to do once I get to a high enough level. He's a fairly easy to kill act boss with a relatively high chance to drop set, unique, and other high-end items. By comparison Andariel mainly drops gems, Duriel doesn't even respawn, I believe, and the other two take fighting through absolute hordes of monsters to even access.That's what we did, too. Plus Mephisto (he's very quickly reachable via teleport), and sometimes a couple of minor Uniques which don't take much time (like Pindleskin in front of Nihlathak's temple, Shenk or that Unique above the waypoint next to Shenk).

[Setra]

Maybe he went on Mephisto runs? That's what I tend to do once I get to a high enough level. He's a fairly easy to kill act boss with a relatively high chance to drop set, unique, and other high-end items. By comparison Andariel mainly drops gems, Duriel doesn't even respawn, I believe, and the other two take fighting through absolute hordes of monsters to even access.
True, even nightmare mephy seems to drop a set item every other run.

Also, Duriel does in fact respawn.. good luck finding him though.

What do you think, what would be the highest damage output feasible? I think I'd go with a pure-elemental Fire Sorc, that's a couple ten thousand damage points with every Meteor, and a ton with the Fireballs in between (haven't played too long to remember the exact magnitude). Screwed against half of all enemies though, and a couple rather common ones to boot.
The highest damage I know of is a Dual Dream Sorc, which is like 60K a hit. Not too sure in the specifics or how it works.

Hammerdins can get as high as 30K a hammer.. but I hate hammerdins.

Wind Druids can get rather high damage too, about 3K a sec with hurricane, and like 8K damage per tornado, well that's mine anyways.

Probably higher if I could ever find my beloved Earth Shifter (+7 to Elemental Skills)

[Winterwind]

Just realised Maxymiuk wrote "Mephisto runs", not "Baal runs", like it seemed to me for some reason.

Ugh. My apologies,

But yeah, we did pure Meph runs as well.

Dual Dream Sorc? Does Holy Shock improve the damage from spells as well, or how does that work?

[Setra]

Dual Dream Sorc? Does Holy Shock improve the damage from spells as well, or how does that work?
I'm not really sure, as I said earlier. Also, it might have just been 40K, not 60K, but I never really cared about the build as it seemed too strong to have fun with.

Edit: I think maybe the Holy Shocks stack, also I think Lightning Mastery enhances it.

Let's see.. for Level 15 Holy Shock we have 1-648 damage on a hit.

Level 20 (it of course will be much higher but) Lightning Mastery is 278%...

Ignoring the one.. and doubling it.. let's see we get about 5K a hit(max, with a huge variable). So there has to be something else, but I dunno what.

Edit Edit: They apparently also use Enchant.

Edit Edit Edit: Taken from a guide

DUAL DREAM MELEE ENCHANTRESS:
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

I am about to rebuild my enchantress with this build, it seems the most
fun and it creates a huge damage output. This build uses helm and
shield runeword dream to stack Holy shock, and add lots of lightning
damage. (I've heard of players hitting over 100k melee damage with this
build)

Not much info on it though, looking for more.

Edit edit edit edit: D'OH, it's not two level 15.. silly me.. it's a level 30. Yeah my math was off.

[Winterwind]

Okay... why is this using a Sorc, though? It seems to me any melee character would be able to benefit from this equipment, and due to melee combat abilities, to a better effect?

(Yeah, I know, it's mean from me to ask you, since you already stated you never payed much interest to this build :smalltongue: )

[PePe QuiCoSE]

from guides i remember, dual dream is the dream on helm and armor (15x2 holy shock) +lighting mastery + thunder storm + enchant + fire mastery + synergy (warmth iirc).
And i heard something about 100K.

I had read couple of guides when i played, though i never build anything high level. It takes way too much time for my taste. And doing runs is plain boring for me. I wish D2 had a multiplayer option to make PvP with level restriction, so you can be low level and poor and still have fun with PvP.
Though, really awesome would be PMvPM (player+monsters at your command). Maybe for D3...


And my favorite class is the druid. Suboptimal builds ftw :P