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Grynning
2007-11-12, 07:32 AM
So, I don't usually post these hypothetical character build/optimize me questions, but I was looking at the Fatespinner in CA today and it struck me as a really fun hoser class, maybe to use as a bad guy against the players due to his ability to make other people re-roll. I also noticed that there a couple of spells that curse people with roll twice/take lower, and I was trying to figure out the best caster build to really annoy folks. I am not looking for a killer or a Batman, he would probably have a lackey (or be a lackey) of a more powerful damage-dealer. So what build would have the most abilities in keeping with this "nerf the player's rolls" mechanic? Any input is appreciated.

P.S. I thought about the Hexblade already...then I remembered that they suck :smalltongue: However if there's a way to make them better, let me know.

Tor the Fallen
2007-11-12, 07:40 AM
There's a full BAB, full divine caster 10 level PrC called the Hexer in Defenders of the Faith (3.0). Has to be an orc or other monstrous creature, but he gets a wisdom based evil eye ability. Gaze attack, can permanently debuff someone who fails their save, or actually make people permanently sick. Can also charm and sleep with the hex. Pretty cool stuff.

Khanderas
2007-11-12, 08:31 AM
There's a full BAB, full divine caster 10 level PrC called the Hexer in Defenders of the Faith (3.0). Has to be an orc or other monstrous creature, but he gets a wisdom based evil eye ability. Gaze attack, can permanently debuff someone who fails their save, or actually make people permanently sick. Can also charm and sleep with the hex. Pretty cool stuff.
Could have sworn that there was a 10 level PrC with eye-based hexing powers just as you describe, for Orcs / Half-orcs named "Champion of Gruumsh" in a Dragon magazine I got back home somewhere. Problebly something different then what you got, but seems alot the same.

Telonius
2007-11-12, 10:28 AM
There are several Luck feats in Complete Scoundrel, you might try them. They're generally suboptimal for PCs, but could be terrific for the Forrest Gump you're trying to make.

Grynning
2007-11-12, 10:31 AM
Forrest Gump? I was actually picturing him as somewhat crafty - I use the term "hoser" in the DM slang context, meaning a de-buffer and resource drain on the party.
Yeah, I though about Fortune's Friend, but that loses 3 more levels of spell casting on top of the one lost from Fatespinner, so I'm not sure it's worth it. Plus that only affects his own rolls, not the party's.

Edit: I realize now the confusion may have arisen from my use of the term "schmuck" in the title...I just used that because it's a assonant catch-phrase, I didn't mean the actual Yiddish use of the word.

Serpentine
2007-11-12, 10:37 AM
Possibly the Witch class that won "Should Be Core" in a Wizards contest a while back could be worth looking at. Has a Dabble called Curses or somesuch.

Grynning
2007-11-12, 10:46 AM
I assume you're not talking about the Witch variant sorcerer laid out in the DMG. Is there a link to that article?

Frosty
2007-11-12, 11:59 AM
I wonder how syngergetic Fatespinner and Luckstealer are.

Grynning
2007-11-12, 05:26 PM
Where's the Luckstealer from? I'm not familiar with that class. Sounds like pretty much exactly what I'm going for just based on that name.

Neon Knight
2007-11-12, 05:46 PM
I assume you're not talking about the Witch variant sorcerer laid out in the DMG. Is there a link to that article?

We found a witch, may we burn her? (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=119098)

Hm. Now that I found the class again, I have a strong desire to play one.

Fax Celestis
2007-11-12, 06:09 PM
Where's the Luckstealer from? I'm not familiar with that class. Sounds like pretty much exactly what I'm going for just based on that name.

Luckstealer is in Races of the Wild. Luckthief is homebrew and free.

JaxGaret
2007-11-12, 06:16 PM
Yeah, I though about Fortune's Friend, but that loses 3 more levels of spell casting on top of the one lost from Fatespinner, so I'm not sure it's worth it.

You're the DM. You can make the NPC whatever level you want - if you want more spellcasting levels, add some more.

I'll break this down: If you as the DM create a Druid5/Wizard5/Psion5, is that a CR15 enemy? No. Is a Druid5/Wizard5/Psion10 a CR15 enemy? Perhaps.

By the same token, is a Druid10/PlanarShepherd10 a CR20 enemy? No, it's higher.

Is Pun-Pun at fifth level CR5?

Don't let the rules of character creation limit you when you are the DM.

Also, Practiced Spellcaster fixes CL loss.

Grynning
2007-11-12, 06:47 PM
I try to stick to the character creation rules with NPCs about as much as I make players stick to them. I feel it adds a bit more fairness, and it makes creating NPC's more challenging for me personally (if I just write down all the abilities I want them to have, that's too easy, y'know?)

Serpentine
2007-11-12, 11:59 PM
We found a witch, may we burn her? (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=119098)
Yep, that's the one. Thanks for saving me the effort.

brian c
2007-11-13, 12:10 AM
I assume you're not talking about the Witch variant sorcerer laid out in the DMG. Is there a link to that article?

Whoa... never knew that was there, just looked it up. Not a bad class (although of course lacking in fluff and some other more important areas).