Of Dragons and Beholders

[Sparky McDibben]

Hey y'all,

Looking for advice on a game structure.

I'm creating a campaign where the PCs have to protect several ancient gemstone dragons. The dragons define Reality in the Prime Material Plane but are vulnerable to physical attack - they're so powerful that if they fought back, they'd annihilate the world. So a bunch of beholders in the Far Realm get together, realize that they could totally just have a bunch of human mooks kill the dragons. The beholders want the dragons dead because then they can rewrite Reality to be more like the Far Realm (turning our world into a hellscape in the process).

The PCs goal is to protect the dragons from squads of these aforementioned mooks. Unfortunately, the mooks' HQ can passively narrow down the locations of the dragons - they can't get it precise, but over time they can give the mooks a pretty good idea of where to look. There are several ways the mook HQ does this, so while it can be disrupted, it can't be permanently stopped without murdering all the mooks (which is a problem, given that the mooks have control of the royal court). Also over time, the mooks can start lowering the boundaries of Reality in very specific and controlled ways, allowing some of their beholder bosses to start coming through.

I want this to feel like the PCs are trying to keep a Jenga tower from collapsing - you can probably do alright for a while, but eventually everything's going to come crashing down. I've come up with reasons why the PCs can't just use the Khorne route (MAIM! KILL! BURN!), but I need help building a structure that identifies the following:


How close are the mooks to identifying each dragons' lair
When and where can a beholder enter the world?
How can the PCs disrupt both effects?
How much sway do the mooks have over regular folks?

In my head, I see pressure as slowly but constantly being turned up. Even your victories can give the bad guys information - yes, you wiped out that mook team, but now the other mooks know there's something in the vicinity. You just narrowed down their search grid and gave them a starting point.

Thanks in advance!

[Kurt Kurageous]

Ok, I think the dragon concept is cool. But beholders are not known for collaborating with each other or anyone else. Perhaps revisit Volo's Guide on beholders.

I'd pick another villain/race and go from there.

What you are looking for is a ticking clock mechanic (tension pool by AngryGM) that creates a visual representation that "something bad is coming." It has to be visual for the players to see it.

[hamishspence]

"Bunch of beholders collaborating" has a long history in D&D though - beholder cities, led by a larger "hive mother" are a thing.

[Sparky McDibben]

"Bunch of beholders collaborating" has a long history in D&D though - beholder cities, led by a larger "hive mother" are a thing.

Took the words right out of my mouth! I was about to reference Volo's Guide to Monsters, p 7, "Beholder Hives."

Also, that sounds like great Tier 4 adventure fodder - what's powerful enough to make a bunch of beholders collaborate? Good call, gentlemen!

@Kurt Kurageous - The Tension Pool is a good call. But I'd like to avoid swarming her with beholders, and once you get past about 3d6's, you have a better than average chance of a beholder being summoned. So...what if I used d10s? I'd say I want about 1 - 3 beholders to come through, maybe in various stages and with variant abilities. And you get to about 50% chance of rolling a 1 with about 7d10, so that just might work.

So that's a mechanic - now I need a structure. When do I roll? When do I add to the pool? How can players take dice out of the pool (otherwise they're not affecting the core mechanic of the game, which I think is bad design. I know the AngryGM specifies that the dice pool can only go up, because it only does bad things, but this is a different use-case, I'd argue).

And also, how do I reference that the mooks are closing in on the dragons? How close are they? How many guys are they sending?

Also, does anyone have an idea for how to mechanically represent evacuating a gigantic sleeping gemstone dragon? I don't think a skill challenge is gonna cut it.

PS - Thanks for the feedback, y'all! This is great stuff!

[chiefwaha]

I would consider a simple scale, 0 to x, with x being the lair located. You could also add events to the scale, if it hits 6 or whatever a beholder appears... Whatever you should choose.

Something like...

+1 when a mook squad is wiped out.
+2 if the squad is defeated but someone escapes
+3 if the squad wins but doesn't actually know where the lair is
-x, the PCs raid a mook hideout and eliminate evidence of lair locations
-x, the PCs intentionally seek out a mook squad in a wrong location

[Sorinth]

What happens when a dragon leaves it lair/region?

If they can be just retreat and move somewhere else then it might be quite hard for the bad guys to actually kill the dragons. So I would be tempted to require the dragon to be in it's lair for large amounts of time to maintain reality. If they are outside their lair for too long (Days/Weeks) then it starts to damage reality and allow the Beholder's to enter the world.


I think you'll want each dragon to have a unique situation
- One dragon's lair might have a temple built around it in a major city, the city reveres the dragon. So the bad guys know where the dragon is but it's lair is protected by an army. Since the dragon makes appearances at holy festivals the bad guys will try to use that as an opportunity to assassinate the dragon.
- Another dragon's lair is beneath and ancient city, the dragon hasn't been sighted in hundreds/thousands of years and is basically myth at this point. Perhaps it's even home to a well known dragon slaying guild that the bad guys are trying to recruit to help in their hunt. The dragon is a socialite though so is always leaving it's lair as much as possible to mingle with society but is always while polymorphed. So the bad guys are focused on identifying who the dragon is moreso then finding it's exact lair.
- Another dragon whose a lair is out in the wilderness is a cranky recluse who doesn't believe the threat is real and refuses to allow the PCs to help defend the lair.
- Another dragon is fond of particular tribe of nomads, if the bad guys figure it out they can hold them hostage to bring the dragon to them.


One last thing it's probably important for the PCs to have someone on the inside with the bad guys who feeds them information. To get that collapsing feel you want "bad" news to come fast and furious forcing the PCs to evaluate the biggest threat between multiple threats and race from one fire to the next. Basically they foil one plot, but another plot gets closer to completion.

[Kurt Kurageous]

"Bunch of beholders collaborating" has a long history in D&D though - beholder cities, led by a larger "hive mother" are a thing.

Looks like someone (ME!) needs to reread Volos!

[Kurt Kurageous]

Took the words right out of my mouth! I was about to reference Volo's Guide to Monsters, p 7, "Beholder Hives."

Also, that sounds like great Tier 4 adventure fodder - what's powerful enough to make a bunch of beholders collaborate? Good call, gentlemen!

@Kurt Kurageous - The Tension Pool is a good call. But I'd like to avoid swarming her with beholders, and once you get past about 3d6's, you have a better than average chance of a beholder being summoned. So...what if I used d10s? I'd say I want about 1 - 3 beholders to come through, maybe in various stages and with variant abilities. And you get to about 50% chance of rolling a 1 with about 7d10, so that just might work.

Absolutely a good idea. Each die dropped is a thud, a single footstep of approaching doom! D10 makes the odds longer as opposed to certain with the d6. But given how bad the bad thing is (beholders!), I think you might have something.

[Composer99]

What is the players' victory condition? Can they cause the mooks to give up? Kill enough beholders?

This seems like a pretty cool scenario, and the idea of ratcheting tension is good, but how do the players win?

(Or, alternately, is victory impossible? Are they fighting a long defeat until a dragon is slain and a large-scale Far Realm incursion begins? That could be a fun scenario for the right players, but I wouldn't spring it on just anyone.)

[Unoriginal]

I would have some beholders and beholder-kins help the PCs. Not because they like the world, just because they hate the beholders who want to kill the dragons more and don't want them to win and rewrite reality in their image.

[Sparky McDibben]

I would consider a simple scale, 0 to x, with x being the lair located. You could also add events to the scale, if it hits 6 or whatever a beholder appears... Whatever you should choose.

Something like...

I think this actually works well for the "lair-finding" portion. Basically, each lair has an associated countdown clock and a radius of uncertainty.

So, it might look something like this:

Countdown Clock / Radius
10 / 50 miles
8 / 40 miles
6 / 30 miles
4 / 20 miles
2 / 10 miles
1 / 5 miles

At game start, the bad guys know each lair's location to within a 50 mile radius. That's nearly 8,000 square miles of search area. That countdown clock has 10 ticks. Once all the ticks are filled in, the bad guys tighten up the radius to within a 40 mile radius, and the clock resets. Except this time, the clock only has 8 ticks. So every in-game month, each lair (or maybe only 1 or 2 lairs? Not sure) get an automatic tick. Killing a mook squad inside the radius gives that lair a tick. Antagonizing the locals might get the lair a tick (because now they're more likely to help the mooks). But if you leave the mooks out there, they'll give the lair two ticks every month (in addition to any automatic ticks). If a beholder is present, it might either spend the month fortifying a lair, or helping search (automatic tick). Any other ideas?


What happens when a dragon leaves it lair/region?

The dragons are basically comatose (on this plane, anyway; they've got psychic projections on other Planes), so they can't really wake up. If they did, they'd undo Reality - it would become too real. But! They do have minions (or "devoted henchpersons," as they prefer), and I could definitely see the dragons' minions being targeted as countermoves by the mooks. Nice! Definitely stealing!


Absolutely a good idea. Each die dropped is a thud, a single footstep of approaching doom! D10 makes the odds longer as opposed to certain with the d6. But given how bad the bad thing is (beholders!), I think you might have something.

Thanks! Good call on that system, by the way. Still trying to figure out what should be the add / roll / clear conditions, though. I think time should be one - the more time you give the mooks, the more likely their bosses show up. So every in-game month, add 1d10 and roll the pool. Killing mooks doesn't really make sense as an add condition, though. Beholders don't give a damn about their mooks, and the mooks are probably so thoroughly brainwashed they're practically suicidal. But fear of failure might motivate them! Every time the PCs disrupt the mooks' ability to narrow down the lairs, add a die. As for rolling, we've already established time - what about crisis? If the PCs hit the mooks when they're still trying to get the ritual down, maybe the mooks will try to go ahead only half-cocked. So every time they raid the summoning site(s), roll the pool and reset it to zero dice.

So now we've got:

Add 1 die and roll the pool every in-game month
Add 1 die if the PCs disrupt the lair-tracking mechanisms
Roll and clear the pool (reset to 0d10) if the PCs try to disrupt the summoning sites

What do y'all think? Should I add more? Do these not make sense?


What is the players' victory condition? Can they cause the mooks to give up? Kill enough beholders?

This seems like a pretty cool scenario, and the idea of ratcheting tension is good, but how do the players win?

(Or, alternately, is victory impossible? Are they fighting a long defeat until a dragon is slain and a large-scale Far Realm incursion begins? That could be a fun scenario for the right players, but I wouldn't spring it on just anyone.)

That could be fun, but it sounds like a campaign backstory, not something I'd like to play through. Same problem I have with Mass Effect 3's endgame. :D

I think the PCs have two possible win conditions: they can either shut down the beholder cult and kill the beholders in the Far Realm, or they can evacuate the dragons. Now, as to what conditions map to that...that's interesting. Should there be escalating problems as dragons start to die? As Reality becomes less real, what happens? Can the PCs win by just saving one dragon? Do they have to save all of them? What thoughts do y'all have?


I would have some beholders and beholder-kins help the PCs. Not because they like the world, just because they hate the beholders who want to kill the dragons more and don't want them to win and rewrite reality in their image.

Oh that is gold! Also feeds into the idea of beholders having a totally alien view of reality.