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Rerem115
2021-05-20, 08:08 PM
So, someone at my table wanted to lean into using poisons in combat, both for style reasons and for reasons that make sense within backstory. But, we all know how useful those are in this edition, and rather than overhaul everything-I'll save that for later, if they still want to keep down this path-I thought it would be a good idea to take the 'spell as a class feature in all but name' approach as a band-aid. Here's what I got so far:

Conjure Venom
1st Level Conjuration
Druid, Ranger, Artificer
VSM (An empty vial and a body part belonging to a toxic creature1)
Casting Time 10 Minutes
Instantaneous

You fill a vial with a summoned injury poison. This poison retains its potency for 24 hours, or 1 minute2 once exposed to air. It can be applied to a melee weapon or 10 pieces of ammunition as a bonus action, and deals an additional 1d43 Poison damage on a hit.

Additionally, the target must make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC or be Poisoned4 until the end of their next turn.

When cast with a slot of 2nd level or higher, you can fill an additional vial for each level above 1st. When cast with a slot of 3rd level or higher, you can change the damage of this spell to Necrotic or Acid damage5. When cast using a slot of 5th level or higher, the target is Stunned until the end of their next turn on a failed save instead of Poisoned.6

1Should this be an expensive component, and should it be consumed?
2Should this duration be extended to an hour?
3How much damage is appropriate?
4This is the 'default' sort of rider for these kind of effects, but should it be changed, or even removed?
5Too much?
6Too much?

BerzerkerUnit
2021-05-20, 11:20 PM
So, someone at my table wanted to lean into using poisons in combat, both for style reasons and for reasons that make sense within backstory. But, we all know how useful those are in this edition, and rather than overhaul everything-I'll save that for later, if they still want to keep down this path-I thought it would be a good idea to take the 'spell as a class feature in all but name' approach as a band-aid. Here's what I got so far:

Conjure Venom
1st Level Conjuration
Druid, Ranger, Artificer
VSM (An empty vial and a body part belonging to a toxic creature1)
Casting Time 10 Minutes
Instantaneous

You fill a vial with a summoned injury poison. This poison retains its potency for 24 hours, or 1 minute2 once exposed to air. It can be applied to a melee weapon or 10 pieces of ammunition as a bonus action, and deals an additional 1d43 Poison damage on a hit.

Additionally, the target must make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC or be Poisoned4 until the end of their next turn.

When cast with a slot of 2nd level or higher, you can fill an additional vial for each level above 1st. When cast with a slot of 3rd level or higher, you can change the damage of this spell to Necrotic or Acid damage5. When cast using a slot of 5th level or higher, the target is Stunned until the end of their next turn on a failed save instead of Poisoned.6

1Should this be an expensive component, and should it be consumed?
2Should this duration be extended to an hour?
3How much damage is appropriate?
4This is the 'default' sort of rider for these kind of effects, but should it be changed, or even removed?
5Too much?
6Too much?

Given the general inefficiency of this spell, I think it's fine. I'm curious as to why it's easier to apply this poison from vials than other poisons. My understanding is applying poisons is an action and I think only the Thief Rogue can use their cunning action to do it as a bonus action...

Were it me I'd go the following route:

Envenom Weapon (Wizard, Druid, Ranger)
1st Level Conjuration
Casting Time: 1 Bonus Action
Target: Touch
Duration: 1 Minute
You conjure a thick coat of venom on a piercing or slashing weapon you touch. The next successful attack with that weapon made within the duration forces the target to make a saving throw vs your Spell DC. On a failure the target takes 3d10 Poison damage and is poisoned for 1 minute. A successful save reduces the damage by half and the target is not poisoned.

Casting at higher levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot higher than 1st level you add 1d10 damage for each level beyond first. At the DM's discretion, you may instead conjure the venom of a specific creature you have seen. In this case the save DC, damage, and additional effects match those of the creature. Divide the creature's CR by 3 and round down to determine the level of spell slot required.
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This makes it arguably better than divine smite (which is fine because it's a damage type ignored by entire classes of creatures), but not really because of action economy. The damage is high because you want players to be satisfied using its base function instead of combing through the MM and Volos and Mordenkainens looking for the nastiest thing they can find.

Notably, I think this might allow you to coat your blade in a green dragon's breath... I'm fine with that.

Rerem115
2021-05-30, 07:59 PM
Ooh, I kinda like that idea.