What are some example adventurers with a party of all tier 1 classes for PCs?

[Endarire]

Greetings, all!

According to this post (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?269440-Why-Each-Class-Is-In-Its-Tier-(Rescued-from-MinMax)), these classes are considered tier 1 because, with the right preparation (including being the right level with the right gear and build), they can each do a lot and potentially anything in the game.

-Archivist

-Artificer

-Cleric/Cloistered Cleric

-Druid

-Erudite (Spell-to-Power Version)

-Wizard

I'm also curious how a party containing only these classes would likely fare from ECL 1 to 20+ assuming all official material is allowed and every official material allowed. Assume the party has 4-6 main PCs, and that each class can have duplicates, like a party of all Wizards or Clerics. (A more varied class selection is likely better overall in this case, however.) Also assume no (nearly) infinite loops.

(Let's not use this thread to debate the merits of the tier system, nor how accurate it is, nor anything else about the tier system. Use another thread for that.)

Thankee!

[noob]

At early levels druid is really strong even without efforts so having 1 or 2 druids is nearly mandatory if you want an easy early game experience.
If you are willing to spend enough time optimising any class setup can steamroll early game.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

At lower levels the class you probably want the most is druid. The weaknesses of low level tier 1s, for the most part, is that they're squishy and don't have much staying power (granted, pretty much all low level characters are, but full casters especially) - druids make up for this by coming with extra bodies attached.

Since I hate spell-to-power erudites (badly designed mess of a half-baked acf of an acf, rules headaches, yada yada), I'll have two druids and one of every other tier 1 class bar erudite.

I'm going to focus on how the party acts at low - mid levels, because so much has been written about endgame builds for casters and honestly not much more needs to be said about that.

2 Druids: Their animal companions are the main meat shields for the first couple of levels while the druids themselves hide in the back. Obviously transition to wild shape and natural spell ASAP. Medium to long term they'll probably go for summoner builds - lets say one greenbound, one rashemi. Basically standard 'caster' rather than 'grr bear smash' druids focused on drowning the enemy in a sea of expendables, following the gospel of Eggynack. Another good option that two druids makes easier (since it's so spell-slot intensive) is the obscuring snow + snowsight trick.

Artificer: Human with Mark of Making. This isn't for the SLAs themselves, which especially at low levels are fairly crummy, but for the associated dragonmarked bonuses Summon Marked Homunculus, an obscure dragonmarked-only infusion that with a 1st level slot can summon a CR1 arbalester for 1/hour per level (very good for the first couple of levels where the druids summons would only get a couple rounds in). For the first couple of levels an artificer can also be an amazing damage dealer with personal weapon augmentation (bane). In the medium to long term they're going for the basic persistomancy setup detailed here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?427628-Disregard-Money-Acquire-Buff-Spells-Artificers-without-the-Artifice), but also taking some crafting enhancing feats. (You can easily fit both into a build with flaws in the mix.)

Cleric: Standard issue cloistered persistomancer, since that is something that can be effective from level 1. Short term this one's basically acting like a divine wizard and utility caster, once divine power kicks in they can act as the party 'heavy' to beat down stuff the summons couldn't handle. They're probably also the party 'face' since they've got a bunch of skill points, have some of the relevant skills on their list (and can pick up more from domains) and a decent cha.

Wizard: Lets say an elf generalist domain wizard - their main job is to be versatile utility so banning schools doesn't seem like a great idea, and domain wizards get as many spells per day as specialists anyway. At 5th level they can pick up spontaneous divination and act as a one-man intelligence department.

Archivist: ...Gonna be honest, I don't really know much about how to play them, but I do know they can be very good. Basically collaborating with the cleric and wizard to make sure the party can cast always have exactly the needed spell, I guess?

In the long term, the above can be combined with pretty much the typical cheese, everyone becoming planar shepards, spelldancers, dweomerkeepers and such - at that point things like 'party roles' become irrelevant because you've essentially won the game. If you don't want to do that, and/ore for the levels before its possible, the basic combat setup is:

Druids act as party 'muscle' via summons and companions. Wild shape is mostly used defensively - high AC and mobility forms.
Artificer and Cleric act as 'force multipliers', providing buffs to the rest (inc the summons) - though either can switch happily to the 'heavy' role with the right persisted buffs.
Wizard and Archivist are on crowd control duty, slinging out their typically effective debuffs.

But of course, given the nature of tier 1s they can switch in and out of these roles pretty freely.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

Here's a very simple, relatively low-powered full-T1 party.

Fighter : Melee-focused Cleric, probably a Persistomancy build. You can get level 1 spells active all day quite easily even at very low levels, so you can get bigger numbers than a normal fighter + still have a few spells left over to heal or solve problems.
Rogue : Cloistered Cleric with the right domains has trapfinding, all the right skills, and is still a divine caster with all the power that this implies. Or you can just throw gold around and use wands to get trapfinding and boost your skills. Or you can use undead/minions to find traps.
Healer : There's no need for this. Most of the party can pull out healing spells as need, and buy cheap wands early on. Just play an Artificer or something, you've got strong buffs at low levels and can freely Persist or craft things later on.
Wizard : Just play a wizard. This should be self-explanatory. If you're concerned about being less useful than all these divine casters in the early levels, take a Reserve Feat like Fiery Burst. If you're not, just be a classic God Wizard. You'll quickly get very powerful as soon as you get access to level 2 spells, and even level 1 spells can be excellent support (Grease) or can remove inconvenient targets (Power Word Pain on high-AC enemies).
Fifth wheel : Druid. At low levels, a Druid does area control (Entangle) while their animal companion is a very effective frontliner. At mid levels, they're better in melee than fighters while also having strong area control spells, healing, and very effective summoning (especially with the right feats).


Here you have a group that covers all the standard party roles better than the "traditional" class spread, while also having all the amazing end-game power of T1 classes. When they start planar binding armies and such, none of the players will be left behind!

[Endarire]

From the GM's side, what sort of adventures/plots/scenarios would be appropriate for this group from level 1 to 20+?

As a player, I'm familiar with the power of well-optimized Clerics, Druids, and Wizards in a low-op world, where taking Martial Weapon Proficiency as a Wizard was useful just so I could avoid the accuracy penalty of the +1 Holy superweapon my party just crafted with me and for me.

Thankee!

[TalonOfAnathrax]

Around level 7 or 8, it becomes increasingly non-viable to rely on normal dungeon scenarios. A full T1 group theoretically has massive mobility, ability to summon/control more or less disposable long-term minions, and ability to gather lots of information. Actually doing this can be adventures in and of themselves the first few times, of course.
In practice, when I have groups with lots of T1 classes I start creating campaigns focused on detailed sandbox areas and stop trying to make dungeons or "sequence of events" plots work.
The only other alternative is keeping them on constant, strict time and resource limits. If you're willing to do that, you can run more or less normal adventures (although you'll quickly have to build around capabilities like "they can all fly, they're all invisible, and they have access to infinite Wall of Thorns" or whatever). This approach is however annoying for the players, and may force you to blatantly ass-pull a new excuse to deny them the downtime to start planar binding or whatever.

[Anthrowhale]

There are enough varieties of cleric to cover all roles.

For a wizard role, the arcane disciple cleric flavor can pick up any chosen 20 sorcerer/wizard/bard spells.

For a rogue role, a cloistered cleric with the kobold and trickery domains can manage well using Guidance of the Avatar and/or Divine Insight.

For a face role, the pact domain gives the requisite skills.

For a sage role, cloistered cleric gives lore, lots of skill points, and access to all knowledge skills.

For a fighter role, persistomancy comes online at level 1 and builds from there. Also, every character can just take wild cohort for heavy martial support in the early levels.

[Efrate]

Alternately, all druids.

Each have a pretty close fighter equivalent. Natural bond gets you a compainion at no ecl loss (ie fleshraker) so its online when its silly and just get better. Venomfire wins most combats.

Ashbound, greenbound, and rashemi elemental summoning give your summons a lot of extra oomph/utility and all scale decently.

Natural spell and wild shape lets you all be the bears who summon bears while riding bears. Or fleshrakers. Or whatever. Your physical stats are rendered moot.

Reserve summon elememtal is an amazing scout trapfinder and door opener. Its locked? Glide through the wall and unlock it. Also is amazing at infiltration.

Social stuff is your weakeat area but diplomacy is a class skill and your physical stats matter very little because of wild shape. So add a bit more to int and cha you will do fine, if you care to go into a town for more than shopping. Urban druid is a thing if one of you wants to cover this better by nerfing yourself.

You excell in any non city environment, being untrackable, and having obscene survival skills. All exploration is likewise easy for you. Tree stride is no teleport but it gets the job done. You all have flight easily if you want it.

You all have healing if needed, and you all have enough bfc to choke an army. Also a bit of work can have you all as saviors of the common folks because you can easily spend a week or so guaranteeing productivity and success of crops for a kingdom on an off week.

SNA even without feats can get your genies for all your wishes or whatever.

[Thunder999]

There's some pretty neat synergy between archivist and artificer, since the artificer can make those obscure discounted divine scrolls for the archivist to learn.

[Biggus]

Around level 7 or 8, it becomes increasingly non-viable to rely on normal dungeon scenarios. A full T1 group theoretically has massive mobility, ability to summon/control more or less disposable long-term minions, and ability to gather lots of information. Actually doing this can be adventures in and of themselves the first few times, of course.


There are some examples in the ELH (p.105-6, 112) of how to make a high-level dungeon work which would also apply to an optimised non-epic caster team. Having a beholder living in a pit trap to antimagic anyone who tries to fly over it, and/or the passage on the other side of the trap being an illusion concealing a sealed room with a dragon in it ready to attack teleporters. Having rooms not connected by corridors so you have to teleport between them, or even having rooms exist on several different planes. Traps which make sonic attacks and thereby alert every creature in that part of the dungeon to your presence.

More generally it also (p.109-110, 112, 115-116) suggests including lots of intelligent adversaries and actually playing them intelligently, wearing them down by requiring a lot of spells just to accomplish basic tasks like moving around (or making it so that the only way to find out important information is to use their highest-level divinations) and/or designing adventures so that divinations don't instantly solve the problem (for example, they find out where an important item is...it's owned by a demon lord).

[Eurus]

Controlling downtime becomes increasingly important when you have an all caster party like that. A D&D party of even moderate levels will be able to rest pretty safely whenever they feel like it if they're reasonably experienced with the game, so you have to use enough time pressure to force them to push through a "day's worth" of encounters without breaking early. However, giving too little downtime is also not very fun, since the players are going to want to shop or get new spells or craft items or whatever. That's a tough balance.

It's also worth noting that the tier system tends to assume a certain level of experience and competence with the system that not all playgroups have. A cleric who uses all of their actions on cure and inflict spells is not really going to be performing like a "tier 1" label would imply. Druids are probably the class that's easiest to play really effectively because the mechanics are pretty clear. Between animal companion, wild shape, and spells, you can contribute something in almost any situation even if your build isn't great. That being said, I have absolutely seen people play druids with noncombat companions who use slings and blasting spells in combat and don't use wild shape much at all...

[Endarire]

I was in a group that played a buncha high-tier characters from level 1. We were in an open world (an island) but we had a strict time limit from near the start of the game: On day X, we were to fight a war to defend the island's only inhabited city from an invasion. We did what we could to push back the 'due date' to gain more resources, and it was draining to us as players to be continuously vigilant from level 1 to 10ish. (2 players quit because of it.)

[Soranar]

honestly 4 wizards could get it done

1 focused specialist gnome (illusions), he'll become a shadowcraft mage
1 focused specialist kobold (conjurer) with domain granted power for trapfinding through the kobold domain. He'll be taking an urban savant dip before becoming an unseen seer
1 necromancer variant wizard (gets an undead pet that will serve as a meatshield)
1 enchanter variant wizard (gets all the face skills and a bonus to use them + a cohort at level 6)

they can all take wild cohort at early levels to gain a meatshield

the necromancer turns them all into necropolitan around level 3 with a desecrate spell and an evil altar

the necromancer's ability works with any undead he creates so they all get a permanent STR +4, DEX +4, +2 per hit die

they also had invested in an evil altar with a scroll of desecrate so they get yet another +2 hitpoints per hit die

Eventually the necromancer will get a way to create a clone of himself so that he can also turn himself into a necropolitan with the same bonuses too

The enchanter's cohort could be an artificer

the cohort alone can provide all the healing they could need through magic items and being undead makes you immune to most status effects anyway

[Endarire]

Just remember, you need to live through low levels when a single normal hit may KO or kill you and a critical hit even more likely so.

[noob]

Just remember, you need to live through low levels when a single normal hit may KO or kill you and a critical hit even more likely so.

Hence why cleric and druid are cool choices.

[mattie_p]

This comic is no longer live, but the archives exist. A 4-cleric party. I'll just leave this here. (https://www.demonac.com/anothergamingcomic/agc247)

[Gavinfoxx]

At low levels, the party is relying on trained animals for frontlinemostly. Once the party hits their stride at around level 3 or maybe 5 or so, this becomes less necessary. In general, on the gm side, look for monsters with interesting spells, and have combat scenarios be more complex than just 'kill all monsters to win'. The party may have to prevent a person from becoming a sacrifice, or stop the destruction of some infrastructure, or whatever, and monsters have a variety of supernatural abilities to maintain their threat level. Also, lean into exploration (for later exploitation!) of mysterious locations style gameplay!

[RandomPeasant]

At low levels, you need to make sure you have someone who can handle traps (if your DM uses traps), and that you have someone who can handle the frontline. That's not impossible to do, but it requires enough thought that a reasonable percentage of parties would miss it if they weren't thinking about it. An Artificer can do the former, but low level Artificers are pretty miserable to play (your UMD checks are far from guaranteed at that point) so you might want to have the Cleric pick up whatever domain it is that grants Trapfinding. The latter can be handled in a variety of ways. Animal Companions are probably the best, but TBH there's very little difference between a melee Cleric and a melee Fighter at low levels, and a melee Fighter is perfectly serviceable at those levels.

Eventually, you start picking up abilities that let you have frontliners without dedicating a whole character to it. These trickle in over time, but the big breakpoint is 5th level, where your Cleric unlocks animate dead. That gets you a frontline that is "good enough", and costs very few character resources. After that point you start picking up more and more stuff that you can use in lieu of having a dedicated melee character, and Gish builds start picking up properly. By 10th level, the only thing you need to worry about is having some answer to traps, and even that's only required if your DM really loves them (and you're high enough level that your answer can be Summon Elemental).

Challenging this party depends on what you think T1 means in practice, and what you mean by adventures. If your players aren't pushing the system to its limits, you can get combat encounters out of the Monster Manual out to a pretty high level. You have to be discerning, and you might have to use encounters that are a couple of levels tougher than the party, but a Beholder or a Hullathoin is a reasonable challenge for a party of casters. A standard dungeon crawl is a reasonable challenge for a T1 party, you just have to avoid defining your dungeon as a series of obstacles in front of an end goal. "Clear the incursion from the Underdark out of the Dwarves' mine" or "determine if there are any natural resources worth having in the Screaming Vales" are much better challenges for a T1 party than "retrieve the staff of Yut-Amon from the Crypts of Doom" (IMO, they're more interesting in general, but that's more subjective).

Non-combat encounters are harder, but I think the general principle is the same. You need to stop thinking in terms of obstacles for the players to overcome, and start thinking in terms of systems for them to manipulate. "The Esoteric Order of the Malachite Drake is going to assassinate the princess to start a war, stop them" is a much easier adventure for a party of T1s to trivialize than "a variety of forces in both kingdoms are pushing them towards war, build robust support for peace". Generally, you want to avoid "do X to win", because spells are really easy at finding a lateral angle to get to X without dealing with the obstacles that you expected to slow the party down.

[Bayar]

There's some pretty neat synergy between archivist and artificer, since the artificer can make those obscure discounted divine scrolls for the archivist to learn.

I don't think that works since artificer scrtolls are neither arcane or divine.

[Endarire]

Nowhere in the rules is a spellbook user required to learn spells from scrolls of the same type (arcane, divine, etc.)

[RandomPeasant]

Nowhere in the rules is a spellbook user required to learn spells from scrolls of the same type (arcane, divine, etc.)

The Archivist is. They have to scribe from "scrolls containing divine spells". I suppose you could argue that just means that there has to be a spell on the scroll that's divine, but that leads you to conclusions like "an Archivist can learn magic missile from a scroll that also has summon monster I on it".

[noob]

The Archivist is. They have to scribe from "scrolls containing divine spells". I suppose you could argue that just means that there has to be a spell on the scroll that's divine, but that leads you to conclusions like "an Archivist can learn magic missile from a scroll that also has summon monster I on it".

I forgot if the artificiers scrolls did count as "neither divine nor arcane" or counted as the one that fits the spells.
If the latter it allows to make scrolls for the archivist to learn even with the interpretation "archivists learn from divine magic scrolls".

[aglondier]

Tier 1 party flees into the wilderness unprepared in order to escape their overbearing stage mums...hijinks ensue...

[noob]

Tier 1 party flees into the wilderness unprepared in order to escape their overbearing stage mums...hijinks ensue...

Like the kind of mother who says "always prepare expeditious retreat or some other way to do a tactical retreat before leaving home"(like how rl people asks "wear a warm jacket")?

[ciopo]

This comic is no longer live, but the archives exist. A 4-cleric party. I'll just leave this here. (https://www.demonac.com/anothergamingcomic/agc247)

that has been an hilarious read!

[aglondier]

Like the kind of mother who says "always prepare expeditious retreat or some other way to do a tactical retreat before leaving home"(like how rl people asks "wear a warm jacket")?

No, more like the mums that force their kids to participate in beauty pageants.

[thethird]

The Archivist is. They have to scribe from "scrolls containing divine spells". I suppose you could argue that just means that there has to be a spell on the scroll that's divine, but that leads you to conclusions like "an Archivist can learn magic missile from a scroll that also has summon monster I on it".


I forgot if the artificiers scrolls did count as "neither divine nor arcane" or counted as the one that fits the spells.
If the latter it allows to make scrolls for the archivist to learn even with the interpretation "archivists learn from divine magic scrolls".

Nothing is keeping the archivist and the artificer in the same party to work together and used the shared crafting rules in which the artificer provides the spell knowledge and resources but the artificer does the crafting. On the same line if there is a cleric and a druid in the party nothing is keeping those guys from working with the archivist to scribe scrolls too.

[Bayar]

1. Eberron Campaign Setting eratta specifically states that any magic item the Artificer creates is neither arcane nor divine.

2. A wizard needs to descipher an arcane magical writing, thus artificer scrolls are out.

3. An Archivist can learn nonclerical divine spells from scrolls using the rules for scribing a spell into a spellbook for a wizard. Ergo, he'd need to descipher a divine magical writing.

4. Collaborating to create a scroll would not work.

4a. If the artificer uses his scribe scroll feat for creation, then it doesn't matter if the archivist or wizard would supply the spell, the scroll would still be neither arcane nor divine.

4b. If the wizard or archivist used his scribe scroll feat for creation, the artificer could not supply the spell since he has no spells known or prepared.

The only way I can see this working is if the artificer crafts a scroll of a spell, then uses that scroll to aid the wizard/archivist in the creation of a scroll by supplying the spell.

[Quertus]

1. Eberron Campaign Setting eratta specifically states that any magic item the Artificer creates is neither arcane nor divine.

2. A wizard needs to descipher an arcane magical writing, thus artificer scrolls are out.

3. An Archivist can learn nonclerical divine spells from scrolls using the rules for scribing a spell into a spellbook for a wizard. Ergo, he'd need to descipher a divine magical writing.

4. Collaborating to create a scroll would not work.

4a. If the artificer uses his scribe scroll feat for creation, then it doesn't matter if the archivist or wizard would supply the spell, the scroll would still be neither arcane nor divine.

4b. If the wizard or archivist used his scribe scroll feat for creation, the artificer could not supply the spell since he has no spells known or prepared.

The only way I can see this working is if the artificer crafts a scroll of a spell, then uses that scroll to aid the wizard/archivist in the creation of a scroll by supplying the spell.

For #1, does the "Eberron Campaign Setting eratta" specifically state that this change affects Artificers outside Eberron? Does it have the authority to make such changes? What would Artificers be like without this (potentially "illegal") errata?

For #3, a) what about for clerical divine spells; b) probably splitting hairs, but… citation on the archivist requiring a divine magical writing (that is, Wizards probably have more exacting wording on what spells they can scribe, but what is the actual wording on Archivist's abilities)?

For #4b, how does an Archivist create a scroll by himself if he "has no spells known or prepared"?

[noob]

For #1, does the "Eberron Campaign Setting eratta" specifically state that this change affects Artificers outside Eberron? Does it have the authority to make such changes? What would Artificers be like without this (potentially "illegal") errata?

For #3, a) what about for clerical divine spells; b) probably splitting hairs, but… citation on the archivist requiring a divine magical writing (that is, Wizards probably have more exacting wording on what spells they can scribe, but what is the actual wording on Archivist's abilities)?

For #4b, how does an Archivist create a scroll by himself if he "has no spells known or prepared"?

4b): spells known can be substituted by castings with scrolls when crafting and the artificer can create scrolls of any spell they can do the check for so you can create a bunch of scrolls the archivist uses to create its scroll.

[Bayar]

For #1, does the "Eberron Campaign Setting eratta" specifically state that this change affects Artificers outside Eberron? Does it have the authority to make such changes? What would Artificers be like without this (potentially "illegal") errata?

For #3, a) what about for clerical divine spells; b) probably splitting hairs, but… citation on the archivist requiring a divine magical writing (that is, Wizards probably have more exacting wording on what spells they can scribe, but what is the actual wording on Archivist's abilities)?

For #4b, how does an Archivist create a scroll by himself if he "has no spells known or prepared"?

#1) Artificers are printed in Eberron Campaign Setting book, the eratta is for the Eberron Campaign Setting book. You can play an artificer in any setting, it doesn't matter the setting if the core rules needed clarifications. Since it is an eratta for it's own product, it has the authority to make such changes. Artificers are still as powerful without this eratta since this doesn't affect them directly, more like try to limit other classes from profiting off the item creation without using use magic device checks.

#3a) From the Archivist Prayerbook entry:


At any time, an archivist can also add spells found on scrolls containing divine spells to his prayerbook, but he must make any rolls and spend the time required (see Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook on page 178 of the Player's Handbook). The archivist can learn and thus prepare nonclerical divine spells in this fashion but the two free spells he gains for advancing in class level must be selected from the cleric spell list.

Archivists cannot automatically learn non-cleric divine spells upon level-up, thus the only way to learn a non-cleric divine spell is from a scroll or something simmilar. Cleric spells can be ither at level up as part of it's 2 free spells or from other sources like other non-cleric spells.

And the Adding spells to a Wizard Spellbook goes back to #2 from my list. But since Archivists use divine spells, not arcane, that would either a) limit them to spells that are both on arcane and divine lists or b) make them read the arcane paragraphs as divine so they could fully utilise the rule.

#4b) Not sure what you mean. Archivists have spells known or prepared. I'll assume you meant Artificer. Artificer get crafting feats as bonus feats and have a class feature called Item Creation. This class feature allows them to substitute requirements such as spells with Use Magic Device checks. But since the items created by them directly are neither arcane nor divine, scrolls they make cannot be used by other classes without a Use Magic Device check or be used to scribe the spell into spellbook / prayerbook. If the Archivist is making the scroll, the Artificer cannot emulate the spell to finish crafting said scroll since he needs to emulate said spell when creating an item (not assisting).

Bypassing all that bull**** would require the artificer making a scroll of a spell, then having a wizard or archivist use that scroll to scribe an arcane or divine scroll of said spell, using up the artificer scroll in the process.




Might as well mention that Artificers gain access to spells 2 levels higher than themselves when used in Item Creation and thus can get those broken/exploitable/useful/good/<insert descriptor here> spells earlier than any other class, or that they can cheese it by using other spell lists to gain them even sooner (looking at you Trapsmith).

[ciopo]

SNIP
Archivists cannot automatically learn non-cleric divine spells upon level-up, thus the only way to learn a non-cleric divine spell is from a scroll or something simmilar. Cleric spells can be ither at level up as part of it's 2 free spells or from other sources like other non-cleric spells.

SNIP

If I remember correctly, the sequence of effect is : a spell on a scroll is classified as either divine or arcane depending on the person scribing the scroll, so an Archivist that scribes a scroll of, say, fireball with the help of a friendly arcane caster, will create a divine scroll of fireball, which he can therefore add to his prayerbook.

That's the short of how an archivist can add more or less "any and all the spells" to his prayerbook if he has some other caster to help him supply said spell to be scribed on a scroll.

[Bayar]

If I remember correctly, the sequence of effect is : a spell on a scroll is classified as either divine or arcane depending on the person scribing the scroll, so an Archivist that scribes a scroll of, say, fireball with the help of a friendly arcane caster, will create a divine scroll of fireball, which he can therefore add to his prayerbook.

That's the short of how an archivist can add more or less "any and all the spells" to his prayerbook if he has some other caster to help him supply said spell to be scribed on a scroll.

Yes. I was speaking specifically about Artificer and Archivist interactions.

[ciopo]

Oh, pardon me then ^^

[Endarire]

This part of the 3.5 SRD talks about how Wizards add spells from scrolls to their repertoires (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm). From my present understanding, nothing specifically requires the scroll to be an arcane scroll for said Wizard to learn this spell.

Regardless, let's return to the main point of this topic - preparing GMs to run adventures for tier 1 parties and tactics!

Thankee!

[sreservoir]

For #1, does the "Eberron Campaign Setting eratta" specifically state that this change affects Artificers outside Eberron? Does it have the authority to make such changes? What would Artificers be like without this (potentially "illegal") errata?

Well, they wouldn't exist, the "Eberron Campaign Setting" has no authority to introduce artificers outside Eberron...