Question about Tippy "Bird of Prey" build

[Elves]

I've seen this build by Emperor Tippy (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?286818-Bird-of-Prey-(Tippy-s-Awesome-Flying-Sniper)) linked several times.

It looks like it relies on a custom item (a ML 10 skin of proteus (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#skinofProteus), which is normally ML 7), but it would be nice to make the build strictly RAW. How else can you get that ML 10 metamorphosis? Is there a way to extrinsically raise the item's ML? I don't know psionics.

[Rebel7284]

Words of creation increase caster level by +1 automatically without increasing costs. However, I think most DMs would have to extrapolate from item creation rules
While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell.

[Endarire]

Manifester level is caster level but for psionics.

When making a CL-dependent item, that number is part of the cost. Thus, a wand of fireball at caster level 5 costs 15 G * spell level (3) * caster level (5). Change the caster level to 10 and the formula is 15 * 3 * 10.

To directly answer your question, change the caster level from 7 to 10 and the cost is x / 7 (to remove the old CL7 value) * 10 (to replace it with the new CL10 value).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The RAW is in the post-errata (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/errata) DMG, as well as the SRD: https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel


Caster Level
The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation. This information is given in the form "CL x," where "CL" is an abbreviation for caster level and "x" is an ordinal number representing the caster level itself.

For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

If a Skin of the Proteus is found as random loot, it has a ML 7. If it's created during play, the caster level is determined by the creator.

[Elves]

The RAW is in the post-errata (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/errata) DMG, as well as the SRD: https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel
If a Skin of the Proteus is found as random loot, it has a ML 7. If it's created during play, the caster level is determined by the creator.
Wasn't aware of that errata. Pre-errata DMG says "for other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself." Regardless, the build can't create the item as far as I can tell. I'm wondering how to make it work with the item as published.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wasn't aware of that errata. Pre-errata DMG says "for other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself." Regardless, the build can't create the item as far as I can tell. I'm wondering how to make it work with the item as published.

The interesting part of what the errata changed is that published magic items have a set price. So a Skin of the Proteus will always have the same base price, whether it's created at a manifester level of 7, 10, or 20, even if the effect is stronger from a higher manfiester level. Granted an NPC creating it at a higher level for an improved effect would likely charge more for it, but it wouldn't cost them any more than it would at the item's default level.

Another interesting part is that no item's default caster level is a prerequisite for creating the item any longer. If it does have a caster level requirement, it's included in the prerequisites portion of the item's stats. A Speed weapon has a default caster level of 7th, but it can be created as low as 5th (the minimum to meet the prerequisites given). Magic rings require Forge Ring which requires a caster level of 12th, so the minimum caster level of any ring created during play is 12th, even if its default level when found as loot is much lower.

Regarding how to get one, you could take Leadership for a Psion cohort who can make it, get them to make it for you at the higher manifester level, then have the cohort use Psychic Reformation on you and repick Leadership to a different feat.

[Rebel7284]

The interesting part of what the errata changed is that published magic items have a set price. So a Skin of the Proteus will always have the same base price, whether it's created at a manifester level of 7, 10, or 20, even if the effect is stronger from a higher manfiester level. Granted an NPC creating it at a higher level for an improved effect would likely charge more for it, but it wouldn't cost them any more than it would at the item's default level.

Another interesting part is that no item's default caster level is a prerequisite for creating the item any longer. If it does have a caster level requirement, it's included in the prerequisites portion of the item's stats. A Speed weapon has a default caster level of 7th, but it can be created as low as 5th (the minimum to meet the prerequisites given). Magic rings require Forge Ring which requires a caster level of 12th, so the minimum caster level of any ring created during play is 12th, even if its default level when found as loot is much lower.


While that may be the RAW way of reading it, I suspect some DMs may be unhappy with that and scale the price (including creation price) based on caster level, especially when it leads to a notable difference in effect.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

While that may be the RAW way of reading it, I suspect some DMs may be unhappy with that and scale the price based on caster level, especially when it leads to a notable difference in effect.

Right, but I'd argue that's one of the benefits of investing in item creation feats. Any change to published items' set-in-stone base prices based on caster level would be a house rule that would need to be discussed with the rest of the group. It wouldn't be fair to rule that after a PC has invested in item creation feats thinking that would be one of their benefits.