Greywander
2021-05-24, 08:07 PM
It seems odd to me that clerics are often billed as a melee class, and most domains get Divine Strike instead of Potent Spellcasting. Excluding feats and non-cleric spells, casting a cantrip is usually going to be the better option regardless of which of these two features you have. Now, as we'll see, this isn't quite as straightforward as "caster clerics are better than weapon clerics", but the weapon cleric requires a bit of extra investment to git gud. Also I bolded some words to make this easier to read (otherwise, it's easy to get lost in the sea of endless same-looking text).
Let's talk damage in terms of the number of dice thrown. I'm going to treat adding your ability score modifier as a single damage die, as +5 is comparable to an extra 1d8.
A weapon attack deals 2 dice worth of damage (specifically, one die + ability mod), from 1st level to 20th level. Cantrips start off dealing only 1 die of damage, but scale up to 4 dice of damage. Using a weapon is better from 1st to 4th level, both options are comparable from 5th to 10th level, and cantrips are better after 11th level. Already things aren't looking great for melee clerics.
Now, Divine Strike adds an extra die of damage, and later, a second extra die of damage, for a total of 4 dice of damage. This only puts weapon attacks on par with cantrips (albeit, you get your damage dice sooner, at 8th and 14th level, instead of 11th and 17th level). Potent Spellcasting, on the other hand, adds only 1 extra damage die, but on top of the 4 damage dice cantrips already do, this is a total of 5 damage dice. While Divine Strike gets their damage dice sooner, this only puts them ahead of a generic cleric casting cantrips (and even then only for levels 8-10 and 14-16), while Potent Spellcasting erases any temporary lead Divine Strike would have had.
A quick side note about Blessed Strikes: it adds 1 die of damage to both weapon attacks and cantrips, but it differs from Potent Spellcasting in that it only adds the extra die once per casting. For Sacred Flame and Toll the Dead, this distinction isn't that important, but this makes a huge difference for Word of Radiance. For Word of Radiance, Potent Spellcasting adds an extra die of damage for each target, which is especially helpful considering that Word of Radiance has fairly low damage normally. Potent Spellcasting is roughly a 50% increase in damage for Word of Radiance, rather than the 20%-30% that it is for other cantrips. Since Blessed Strikes only applies to one target, it makes Word of Radiance significantly weaker compared to Potent Spellcasting. One of the main reasons I think this matters is that a melee cleric would actually be better served casting Word of Radiance than making a weapon attack (though it depends on what the AC and CON save of the monsters are, as well as how many monsters are in range). So if we're talking about melee clerics, I think Word of Radiance needs to be brought up. For the purposes of this thread, I'm going to ignore the existence of Blessed Strikes, though it is certainly an option.
Okay, so far Divine Strike looks a little worse, as it only draws even to a generic cleric, whereas Potent Spellcasting will surpass it. So Potent Spellcasting is slightly better, right? Well, it's a bit more complicated. Divine Strike has another downside in that you'll want to pump WIS for your cleric spells, but a melee cleric also needs STR (or DEX) for their weapon attacks. A caster cleric, on the other hand, can just focus on WIS and dump STR and/or DEX (you'll usually want STR 15 for heavy armor, or DEX 14 for medium). At first, this makes weapon clerics look even worse, since we'll need to burn two ASIs to pump STR or DEX, but...
Why spend two ASIs pumping STR or DEX when you can spend one ASI to grab a feat for Shillelagh? Now your weapon attacks use WIS and you can once again focus entirely on WIS while dumping STR and DEX (except as needed for AC). Still, you're an ASI behind the caster cleric, and all you've done is give yourself something the caster cleric already had (using WIS instead of STR/DEX). But, you can also take that second ASI you would have spent on STR or DEX, and grab another feat for Booming Blade/Green-Flame Blade. Booming Blade adds another 3 damage dice, which, with Divine Strike, makes for a total of 7 damage dice, and you have the rider effect of forcing the enemy to stand still or take another 4 dice of damage. Likewise, Green-Flame Blade adds 3 damage dice to your primary target and another 4 damage dice to a secondary target. Either blade cantrip gets you at least 7 dice of damage, and up to 11 dice of damage if the conditions are triggered. (Although usually the point of Booming Blade is that you want the enemy to stand still, and the extra damage is just a consolation in case they move anyway; it's meant as more of a control effect rather than more damage, but YMMV.)
Another side note: a high elf Nature cleric doesn't require any ASIs, as they can get Shillelagh from their class and BB/GFB from their race. Arcana clerics can also pick up BB/GFB from their class, and Potent Spellcasting will apply to it, but this leaves them with 6 damage dice, instead of the 7 you'd get with Divine Strike. As an alternative to an elf, you could also be a variant human or custom lineage and use your free feat to pick up either Shillelagh or Booming Blade (via Magic Initiate, Spell Sniper, Aberrant Dragonmark, or Artificer Initiate; Shillelagh can only be obtained from Magic Initiate).
So now the weapon cleric is looking like it can dish out a lot more damage, up to 11 dice worth, more than twice the damage of the caster cleric's 5 dice. Of course, this comes at the cost of two ASIs, which the caster cleric could spend on useful feats, or, if nothing else, boosting CON to become even tankier.
But wait, we're not finished yet. All cleric damage cantrips use saving throws, and it's generally harder to find magic items that boost spell save DC than it is spell attack. Conversely, magic weapons almost always give a boost to your attack rolls, and may add extra damage as well. Since clerics only get one attack, you're usually better off giving the Flame Tongue to your fighter rather than using it yourself, but something like a simple weapon +3 can increase your damage significantly just by making you hit more often. It will be much harder to find an item that gives a +3 to spell save DC, and that item will almost certainly require attunement, while a weapon +3 does not. (Granted, a boost to your spell save DC does a lot more than just make your cantrips hit more often.)
In the end, the weapon cleric can outpace the caster cleric, but requires specific feats/non-cleric spells to do so. In the absence of any feats or other non-class benefits, the weapon cleric appears to be straight up worse than the caster cleric, which I think is what frustrates me about this. It wouldn't be so bad if you could pick up Shillelagh and Booming Blade with the same feat, but you can't. And you won't always want to play a high elf or variant human/custom lineage, either. I'd like to try a dwarf Forge cleric sometime, but this necessarily means burning two feats for both cantrips (or hoping for a Belt of Giant Strength).
TL;DR, a weapon cleric has a base damage of 4 dice and is MAD, but can spend two feats for Shillelagh and Booming Blade/Green-Flame Blade to become SAD and boost damage to 7 dice (11 if BB/GFB conditions are met). You can save yourself a feat by being a high elf, variant human, or custom lineage, or by playing a Nature or Arcana cleric (but Arcana clerics don't get Divine Strike). A caster cleric, on the other hand, has a base damage of 5 dice and is already SAD, and can't really improve beyond that. So caster clerics are better by default, but weapon clerics can become stronger with some feat investment.
Actually, now that I think about, the Arcana cleric is probably in the best position. First, you can get BB or GFB from the class without spending a feat. Potent Spellcasting only adds 1 damage die, rather than the 2 of Divine Strike, but in exchange you also get that extra damage die on your ranged cantrips and, perhaps more importantly, Word of Radiance. This makes the Arcana cleric quite versatile, able to operate at melee or range, and in melee against single or multiple opponents.
Let's talk damage in terms of the number of dice thrown. I'm going to treat adding your ability score modifier as a single damage die, as +5 is comparable to an extra 1d8.
A weapon attack deals 2 dice worth of damage (specifically, one die + ability mod), from 1st level to 20th level. Cantrips start off dealing only 1 die of damage, but scale up to 4 dice of damage. Using a weapon is better from 1st to 4th level, both options are comparable from 5th to 10th level, and cantrips are better after 11th level. Already things aren't looking great for melee clerics.
Now, Divine Strike adds an extra die of damage, and later, a second extra die of damage, for a total of 4 dice of damage. This only puts weapon attacks on par with cantrips (albeit, you get your damage dice sooner, at 8th and 14th level, instead of 11th and 17th level). Potent Spellcasting, on the other hand, adds only 1 extra damage die, but on top of the 4 damage dice cantrips already do, this is a total of 5 damage dice. While Divine Strike gets their damage dice sooner, this only puts them ahead of a generic cleric casting cantrips (and even then only for levels 8-10 and 14-16), while Potent Spellcasting erases any temporary lead Divine Strike would have had.
A quick side note about Blessed Strikes: it adds 1 die of damage to both weapon attacks and cantrips, but it differs from Potent Spellcasting in that it only adds the extra die once per casting. For Sacred Flame and Toll the Dead, this distinction isn't that important, but this makes a huge difference for Word of Radiance. For Word of Radiance, Potent Spellcasting adds an extra die of damage for each target, which is especially helpful considering that Word of Radiance has fairly low damage normally. Potent Spellcasting is roughly a 50% increase in damage for Word of Radiance, rather than the 20%-30% that it is for other cantrips. Since Blessed Strikes only applies to one target, it makes Word of Radiance significantly weaker compared to Potent Spellcasting. One of the main reasons I think this matters is that a melee cleric would actually be better served casting Word of Radiance than making a weapon attack (though it depends on what the AC and CON save of the monsters are, as well as how many monsters are in range). So if we're talking about melee clerics, I think Word of Radiance needs to be brought up. For the purposes of this thread, I'm going to ignore the existence of Blessed Strikes, though it is certainly an option.
Okay, so far Divine Strike looks a little worse, as it only draws even to a generic cleric, whereas Potent Spellcasting will surpass it. So Potent Spellcasting is slightly better, right? Well, it's a bit more complicated. Divine Strike has another downside in that you'll want to pump WIS for your cleric spells, but a melee cleric also needs STR (or DEX) for their weapon attacks. A caster cleric, on the other hand, can just focus on WIS and dump STR and/or DEX (you'll usually want STR 15 for heavy armor, or DEX 14 for medium). At first, this makes weapon clerics look even worse, since we'll need to burn two ASIs to pump STR or DEX, but...
Why spend two ASIs pumping STR or DEX when you can spend one ASI to grab a feat for Shillelagh? Now your weapon attacks use WIS and you can once again focus entirely on WIS while dumping STR and DEX (except as needed for AC). Still, you're an ASI behind the caster cleric, and all you've done is give yourself something the caster cleric already had (using WIS instead of STR/DEX). But, you can also take that second ASI you would have spent on STR or DEX, and grab another feat for Booming Blade/Green-Flame Blade. Booming Blade adds another 3 damage dice, which, with Divine Strike, makes for a total of 7 damage dice, and you have the rider effect of forcing the enemy to stand still or take another 4 dice of damage. Likewise, Green-Flame Blade adds 3 damage dice to your primary target and another 4 damage dice to a secondary target. Either blade cantrip gets you at least 7 dice of damage, and up to 11 dice of damage if the conditions are triggered. (Although usually the point of Booming Blade is that you want the enemy to stand still, and the extra damage is just a consolation in case they move anyway; it's meant as more of a control effect rather than more damage, but YMMV.)
Another side note: a high elf Nature cleric doesn't require any ASIs, as they can get Shillelagh from their class and BB/GFB from their race. Arcana clerics can also pick up BB/GFB from their class, and Potent Spellcasting will apply to it, but this leaves them with 6 damage dice, instead of the 7 you'd get with Divine Strike. As an alternative to an elf, you could also be a variant human or custom lineage and use your free feat to pick up either Shillelagh or Booming Blade (via Magic Initiate, Spell Sniper, Aberrant Dragonmark, or Artificer Initiate; Shillelagh can only be obtained from Magic Initiate).
So now the weapon cleric is looking like it can dish out a lot more damage, up to 11 dice worth, more than twice the damage of the caster cleric's 5 dice. Of course, this comes at the cost of two ASIs, which the caster cleric could spend on useful feats, or, if nothing else, boosting CON to become even tankier.
But wait, we're not finished yet. All cleric damage cantrips use saving throws, and it's generally harder to find magic items that boost spell save DC than it is spell attack. Conversely, magic weapons almost always give a boost to your attack rolls, and may add extra damage as well. Since clerics only get one attack, you're usually better off giving the Flame Tongue to your fighter rather than using it yourself, but something like a simple weapon +3 can increase your damage significantly just by making you hit more often. It will be much harder to find an item that gives a +3 to spell save DC, and that item will almost certainly require attunement, while a weapon +3 does not. (Granted, a boost to your spell save DC does a lot more than just make your cantrips hit more often.)
In the end, the weapon cleric can outpace the caster cleric, but requires specific feats/non-cleric spells to do so. In the absence of any feats or other non-class benefits, the weapon cleric appears to be straight up worse than the caster cleric, which I think is what frustrates me about this. It wouldn't be so bad if you could pick up Shillelagh and Booming Blade with the same feat, but you can't. And you won't always want to play a high elf or variant human/custom lineage, either. I'd like to try a dwarf Forge cleric sometime, but this necessarily means burning two feats for both cantrips (or hoping for a Belt of Giant Strength).
TL;DR, a weapon cleric has a base damage of 4 dice and is MAD, but can spend two feats for Shillelagh and Booming Blade/Green-Flame Blade to become SAD and boost damage to 7 dice (11 if BB/GFB conditions are met). You can save yourself a feat by being a high elf, variant human, or custom lineage, or by playing a Nature or Arcana cleric (but Arcana clerics don't get Divine Strike). A caster cleric, on the other hand, has a base damage of 5 dice and is already SAD, and can't really improve beyond that. So caster clerics are better by default, but weapon clerics can become stronger with some feat investment.
Actually, now that I think about, the Arcana cleric is probably in the best position. First, you can get BB or GFB from the class without spending a feat. Potent Spellcasting only adds 1 damage die, rather than the 2 of Divine Strike, but in exchange you also get that extra damage die on your ranged cantrips and, perhaps more importantly, Word of Radiance. This makes the Arcana cleric quite versatile, able to operate at melee or range, and in melee against single or multiple opponents.