Haley's secret

[Dr.Zero]

In strip #309 Haley reveals some secrets to Elan: she is in love with him, her dad is held for ransom, she quit the thieves guild, she kissed some girls.
And then she has one "I'm not exactly what you would call..."

Since then, people wondered about the end of the sentence.
Has this mistery been resolved, definitely and with certainty?

[hamishspence]

A relevant point of the secret, whatever it is, is that "Not even V knows that one!"

[Dr.Zero]

A relevant point of the secret, whatever it is, is that "Not even V knows that one!"

The fact you are underlining a hint, makes me guess the secret is still a secret. :D

[hamishspence]

I haven't guessed it yet, at least, and I haven't read anything in book commentary or The Giant statements that says what it is.

[Dr.Zero]

I haven't guessed it yet, at least, and I haven't read anything in book commentary or The Giant statements that says what it is.

Well, I suppose we can only write off the "female" option. Since then, Elan would have noticed. And even Roy's dad, who scryed on her while she was showering.

[KorvinStarmast]

*fake SNL Sigmund Freud voice*
Sometimes, a secret is just a secret

[Worldsong]

Secretly not a natural redhead.

[Kish]

"Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call a good person."

I think anyone who is, at this point, looking for "a for-reals deep dark secret that Haley will keep completely unmentioned for four more books" rather than "something relevant to Haley's self-esteem issues" is in for disappointment.

[arimareiji]

Secretly not a natural redhead.

It seems likely Elan would have noticed by now, given that one very-TMI comment he made.

But even for Elan who the Giant just finished burning with gentle humor for being unable to refrain from voicing every thought that pops into his head, I don't understand the logic behind "If Elan would have noticed by now, that means it can't be a secret to the readers."

[Dr.Zero]

*fake SNL Sigmund Freud voice*
Sometimes, a secret is just a secret

In a story? Chekhov would disagree. A secret in a story needs to be discovered, sooner or later!


Secretly not a natural redhead.

It makes sense in the contest. But, depending to the care she uses to hide that fact, both Elan and Roy's dad might have noticed. Specially Roy's dad seems the kind to point out: "I scried her while she wass showering and, you know, she is not naturally red."

On a more serious note (as much serious this is going to be), she definitely imagines herself as a reddie in all her personalities, but two: her teen one, when she admitted she was dying herself to look goth, and "peroxide", which implies that to look blonde she'd need to use peroxide hydrogen.

[KorvinStarmast]

In a story? Chekhov would disagree. A secret in a story needs to be discovered, sooner or later! Anton Chekov or Commander Chekov? :smallconfused:

[Silly Name]

In a story? Chekhov would disagree. A secret in a story needs to be discovered, sooner or later!


Not always. Leaving little details unknown and vague is a perfectly valid way to create the fiction of life. Knowing every little detail of every character's story and personality is not necessary, and sometimes teasing at the existence of something rather than outright showing it makes for excellent storytelling, and is a good way to keep audiences engaged.

What was in the briefcase? Who really was V? Is Deckard a human or a replicant? Why is a raven like a writing desk?

Questions to which we don't have certain answers stick in our minds and make us think about the larger context of the question, they keep us interested and make us come back to them in our attempt to figure it out.

[Mariele]

It seems likely Elan would have noticed by now, given that one very-TMI comment he made.

You'd be surprised. I'm not a natural redhead, I'm an ash blonde. And yet, when I mentioned that to my boyfriend at the time (who saw more of me than just my head!), he didn't believe me. If your hair is a similar depth, and you're just changing the color, you'd be surprised how natural it can look.

I don't think that's the answer, though. Maybe we'll never find this one out, and it was just meant to be a joke. I mean, not everyone's dirty laundry has to hang out by the end of the story, right? :smallbiggrin:

[Dr.Zero]

Anton Chekov or Commander Chekov? :smallconfused:

Both!

Anyway note that of the 4 secrets she revealed completely (I'm in love with you, my dad is held prisoner for ransom, I quit the thieves guild, I kissed some girls) 3 have been plot relevant (for the fourth, we can hope in a ship with Sabine).
Now, that the most mysterious secret, that is underlined as "not even V knows this" is left there unused seems quite strange.

(In any case, my interest was mostly to know if it was revealed, at least by the author: clearly it is not the case)

[Rrmcklin]

"Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call a good person."

I think anyone who is, at this point, looking for "a for-reals deep dark secret that Haley will keep completely unmentioned for four more books" rather than "something relevant to Haley's self-esteem issues" is in for disappointment.

Basically this. I don't see how anything else could fit in organically with the story and make sense, especially at this point.

[Tvtyrant]

In strip #309 Haley reveals some secrets to Elan: she is in love with him, her dad is held for ransom, she quit the thieves guild, she kissed some girls.
And then she has one "I'm not exactly what you would call..."

Since then, people wondered about the end of the sentence.
Has this mistery been resolved, definitely and with certainty?

Short. She is actually a very tall halfling.

[Dr.Zero]

"Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call a good person."

I think anyone who is, at this point, looking for "a for-reals deep dark secret that Haley will keep completely unmentioned for four more books" rather than "something relevant to Haley's self-esteem issues" is in for disappointment.

Ok, in that case I hope Rich sees this post and, as happened with the speculations about the scryng green eye, clarifies there is no more a secret to be revealed to wait for.

[Silly Name]

Both!

Anyway note that of the 4 secrets she revealed completely (I'm in love with you, my dad is held prisoner for ransom, I quit the thieves guild, I kissed some girls) 3 have been plot relevant (for the fourth, we can hope in a ship with Sabine).
Now, that the most mysterious secret, that is underlined as "not even V knows this" is left there unused seems quite strange.

(In any case, my interest was mostly to know if it was revealed, at least by the author: clearly it is not the case)

Weren't all of those things already known by the audience by that point? We definitely knew that Haley's dad was held for ransom, and there were enough throwaway mentions of Haley's latent bisexuality and of some past romantic interests with female names to figure out she kissed girls before. I think her not being in the Thieves' Guild anymore was the one thing we may not have been sure of at the time.

[KorvinStarmast]

(for the fourth, we can hope in a ship with Sabine).
Haley made her distaste for Sabine very clear.

[Petrocorus]

Why is a raven like a writing desk?

From where is that one from?


(for the fourth, we can hope in a ship with Sabine).
Please no!

[Trafalgar]

Secretly not a natural redhead.

In the flashback where she remembers being a goth teen, she has dyed her hair black but has red roots.

[Mariele]

From where is that one from?

Alice in Wonderland (https://www.straightdope.com/21342321/why-is-a-raven-like-a-writing-desk).

Plus, she was a redhead as a little girl, and I doubt she's been a sucker for faux red that long...


Short. She is actually a very tall halfling.
*^$!, Tvtyrant figured it out.

[arimareiji]

You'd be surprised. I'm not a natural redhead, I'm an ash blonde. And yet, when I mentioned that to my boyfriend at the time (who saw more of me than just my head!), he didn't believe me. If your hair is a similar depth, and you're just changing the color, you'd be surprised how natural it can look.
I'll take "Things I Would Have Never Guessed" for $500, Alex. (^_~)

I don't think that's the answer, though. Maybe we'll never find this one out, and it was just meant to be a joke. I mean, not everyone's dirty laundry has to hang out by the end of the story, right? :smallbiggrin:
I'm inclined to agree with you and Silly Name, who I really should have quoted but I'm too lazy to frame a worthy response.


In the flashback where she remembers being a goth teen, she has dyed her hair black but has red roots.
Nice~ (^_^)b For anyone who wants to see (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0093.html)...


Plus, she was a redhead as a little girl, and I doubt she's been a sucker for faux red that long...
(should link (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0772.html) this one too...)
You could make an argument for "different color" (especially since it's by contrast with the present, in the same strip)... but my money is on it being puberty (https://www.chicagonow.com/between-us-parents/2013/09/hair-color-darken-change-puberty/) and/or the lighting (given Redcloak dropping a comment about looking pasty next to the Snarl).

[Mariele]

(should link (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0772.html) this one too...)
You could make an argument for "different color" (especially since it's by contrast with the present, in the same strip)... but my money is on it being puberty (https://www.chicagonow.com/between-us-parents/2013/09/hair-color-darken-change-puberty/) and/or the lighting (given Redcloak dropping a comment about looking pasty next to the Snarl).

I was actually thinking of this one (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0681.html), specifically, and you can see that her hair is the exact same shade as a little girl. :)

[Squire Doodad]

Both!

Anyway note that of the 4 secrets she revealed completely (I'm in love with you, my dad is held prisoner for ransom, I quit the thieves guild, I kissed some girls) 3 have been plot relevant (for the fourth, we can hope in a ship with Sabine).
Now, that the most mysterious secret, that is underlined as "not even V knows this" is left there unused seems quite strange.

(In any case, my interest was mostly to know if it was revealed, at least by the author: clearly it is not the case)

I'm pretty sure the secret Haley didn't even tell V was about her father. She mentions being specifically tight-lipped about it in regards to the party because she didn't want Roy to think she was planning on robbing them and fleeing.
She doesn't bring it up with ELan until they're actually in the Western Continent and emphasizes how she's trying, but having difficulty, with being fully honest in general.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm pretty sure the secret Haley didn't even tell V was about her father. She mentions being specifically tight-lipped about it in regards to the party because she didn't want Roy to think she was planning on robbing them and fleeing.
She doesn't bring it up with ELan until they're actually in the Western Continent and emphasizes how she's trying, but having difficulty, with being fully honest in general.
Not gonna bet against you, that's a good analysis.

[arimareiji]

I was actually thinking of this one (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0681.html), specifically, and you can see that her hair is the exact same shade as a little girl. :)
Huh. I'd lean toward "the Giant changed the shading to reflect the lighting", but since that one has Haley saying her mom died a year ago it's possible that she aged into her true hair color (per the previous link about those genes not always really kicking in until puberty).


I'm pretty sure the secret Haley didn't even tell V was about her father. She mentions being specifically tight-lipped about it in regards to the party because she didn't want Roy to think she was planning on robbing them and fleeing.
She doesn't bring it up with ELan until they're actually in the Western Continent and emphasizes how she's trying, but having difficulty, with being fully honest in general.
Sorry if this is belaboring the first post of the thread, but:

According to the Trivia section of the wiki (https://oots.fandom.com/wiki/My_Dinner_with_Elan) she tries to tell Elan about her dad in panel 7. In panel 10, she refers to the secret we don't know yet.

And it seems pretty clear that the secret we don't know yet is what she tries to tell him in panel 11, but never finishes ("I may not be exactly what you would call--").

Edit: Adding reply

[Mariele]

But wasn't that one of the things she mentioned?

Panel seven (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html) and accompanying translation (https://www.mrphlip.com/haley.php?show=309).

Ninja'd.

[Squire Doodad]

But wasn't that one of the things she mentioned?

Panel seven (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html) and accompanying translation (https://www.mrphlip.com/haley.php?show=309).

Ninja'd.

Ahhh, I see. I assumed the cryptograms were something else.


If I had to guess it's the "not exactly what you'd call a good girl" or something, maybe she killed someone in cold blood once long ago.
But odds are it's not going to come up.

[woweedd]

Well, I suppose we can only write off the "female" option. Since then, Elan would have noticed. And even Roy's dad, who scryed on her while she was showering.
Uh, excuse me, what?

[arimareiji]

I was actually thinking of this one (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0681.html), specifically, and you can see that her hair is the exact same shade as a little girl. :)

Huh. I'd lean toward "the Giant changed the shading to reflect the lighting", but since that one has Haley saying her mom died a year ago it's possible that she aged into her true hair color (per the previous link about those genes not always really kicking in until puberty).
Possibly interesting/amusing: Stumbled across this one (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0382.html) from the cryptogram arc, which shows Haley's personalities with a number of hair colors according to their nature. And young (innocent/trusting?) Haley is still a ginger.

[Fyraltari]

Haven't we already figured out that she's Redcloak's half aasimar niece? Whatever an aasimar is

Uh, excuse me, what?
Tenth panel (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0510.html).

[hroþila]

I think the "excuse me, what?" was more because of the implication of "I'm not exactly what you would call female" being written off because of Elan or Eugene having seen her genitalia and not having made any blatantly transphobic remarks on the topic because apparently that's what we should expect. The comment did come across as transphobic to me.

[Fyraltari]

Ah, that makes sense.

[Dr.Zero]

I think the "excuse me, what?" was more because of the implication of "I'm not exactly what you would call female" being written off because of Elan or Eugene having seen her genitalia and not having made any blatantly transphobic remarks on the topic because apparently that's what we should expect. The comment did come across as transphobic to me.


Can I yawn strongly enough to express my feelings regarding this? Probably not.

[Worldsong]

I don't think a character needs to be transphobic to notice that kind of thing. And it's not exactly a secret that Elan is bad at staying quiet about things. Hell, the latest update shows him having some serious trouble remaining silent while waiting.

Applying a penalty to Perception checks when a character is indifferent to whatever it is their Perception check is meant to pick up on would be an interesting mechanic but might encourage players to give their characters some questionable personalities.

EDIT:
On a slightly more serious note, I think I remember Rich saying that the story arc where Roy was turned into a girl was one of the few times where he had to deal with fan mail telling him the comic actually caused people significant distress, with as consequence that he's staying the hell away from trans stuff because he doesn't trust himself to write it in a way which doesn't upset trans people.

[hroþila]

They might notice because they have eyes. But anyone (including Haley herself) saying something to the effect of "Haley isn't exactly what you would call female" would still be a problem.

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: Closed permanently.