Cutting Words vs Combat Inspiration

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Cutting Words is tons of fun and its good to have more reactions to take but do I understand that functionally it is similar to Combat Inspiration except the Bard has to use their Reaction to use Cutting Words vs the Bard having to luckily pick which character is getting the Combat Inspiration?

[Pondincherry]

As far as I can tell, Combat Inspiration is possibly the worst additional option for Bardic inspiration of any subclass. Not only do you have to pick a good person to give it to, but they have to pick when to use it without knowing whether or not an enemy attack would hit without it. It also applies only to one attack, AND the player has to use their own reaction to make it work. In that sense, it's significantly worse than a Defensive Flourish, with the caveat that it can be given to other people and not just yourself. And the option of adding it to damage seems unlikely to be more useful than standard Bardic Inspiration stuff.

Which sucks, because I really like the flavor for Valor Bard, but effectively their only 3rd level subclass feature is medium armor, martial weapon, and shield proficiency, and Swords Bards get the medium armor and a select few martial weapons anyway.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Maybe I just saw a good use of it. Maybe I let this go improperly.

Our Valor Bard took his action and then gave Inspiration to the Sorcerer who was standing in a place which left him vulnerable to attack. One bad guy took his turn and the Valor Bard cast Counterspell as a reaction. Another went and attacked the Sorcerer who used his inspiration dice to raise his armor class and not get hit.

It seemed really handy.

[blackjack50]

So if I understand correctly...this basically is asking which is a better use? I would think the debuff of the enemy is the best use. I rarely use bardic inspiration in combat. Actually? I don’t think I ever have.

[Guy Lombard-O]

So if I understand correctly...this basically is asking which is a better use? I would think the debuff of the enemy is the best use. I rarely use bardic inspiration in combat. Actually? I don’t think I ever have.

Bardic inspiration is fine for combat. Combat inspiration is...well, it's designed for combat specifically. Since it can be used for to hit rolls, damage rolls (I've seen it spent on crits), and saving throws (in addition to the AC issue OP asked about), all applied after the appropriate roll has been made, I'd say it has some pretty substantial value in combat. Not using it seems like wasting half of the purpose of the ability.

While I do believe that cutting words has a higher overall value than combat inspiration (due to issues already listed), there is one advantage that combat inspiration has over its cousin; cutting words cannot be used against creatures which cannot hear you, or those which are immune to being charmed. Not really sure how often this comes up, but it's at least a small bonus. What's more, since the combat inspiration has a 10 minute duration, the bard doesn't even need to be around when the inspired character uses the inspiration, whether that's from a split in the party or from the bard being killed.

[DigitalCharlie]

It's less luckily picking the character and more deciding who will likely get the most use out of it. After playing a valor bard to 20, I have to say the biggest downside to combat inspiration is that players have to remember they can use it — and reminding them that they can doesn't feel great. I have table tents that I gave out to players when I inspired them as a way to hopefully remember.

Personally, I always found having more uses for it was really helpful towards it getting used. Crit? They should use it because 2d12 is nothing to turn up your nose at. Enemy that hits big lands something? Not this time. GWM/SS character misses? Now it's a hit. Plus the usual giving it to your counterspeller is always nice. Having also played a lore bard into pretty high levels, I actually found myself preferring combat inspiration by the higher levels because I often wanted to save my own reaction for counterspell (on both characters). It meant a lot of combats went by where the only time I used cutting words was on initiative.

So for me, levels 3-10 I strongly preferred cutting words. Levels 11-20 they get a lot closer as you go up in levels.

[Man_Over_Game]

Combat Inspiration isn't bottlenecked by one character, though. You can just spam out your Bardic Inspiration uses as a Valor Bard to assign one to every one, and have them spend their Reaction as needed.

With Lore, you're basically limited to protecting someone the moment they're attacked, using that one Reaction for the entire round.

As a result, the Valor Bard works better as a pre-combat buffer. Sure, the Lore Bard can block up to 5 attacks per encounter, but who'd get more value if there's only 3 rounds of attack rolls?

[ad_hoc]

Combat Inspiration is better as it enhances the regular use of inspiration which is very strong.

It isn't Cutting Words vs Combat Inspiration so much as it is Cutting Words vs Combat Inspiration & Bardic Inspiration.

[blackjack50]

Bardic inspiration is fine for combat. Combat inspiration is...well, it's designed for combat specifically. Since it can be used for to hit rolls, damage rolls (I've seen it spent on crits), and saving throws (in addition to the AC issue OP asked about), all applied after the appropriate roll has been made, I'd say it has some pretty substantial value in combat. Not using it seems like wasting half of the purpose of the ability.

While I do believe that cutting words has a higher overall value than combat inspiration (due to issues already listed), there is one advantage that combat inspiration has over its cousin; cutting words cannot be used against creatures which cannot hear you, or those which are immune to being charmed. Not really sure how often this comes up, but it's at least a small bonus. What's more, since the combat inspiration has a 10 minute duration, the bard doesn't even need to be around when the inspired character uses the inspiration, whether that's from a split in the party or from the bard being killed.

That is a great point. I don’t frequently end up against things that cannot hear though. Don’t think that is common lol.

[Gale]

Maybe I just saw a good use of it. Maybe I let this go improperly.

Our Valor Bard took his action and then gave Inspiration to the Sorcerer who was standing in a place which left him vulnerable to attack. One bad guy took his turn and the Valor Bard cast Counterspell as a reaction. Another went and attacked the Sorcerer who used his inspiration dice to raise his armor class and not get hit.

It seemed really handy.

I actually find this example a bit unsatisfying. Most Sorcerers know the Shield spell, which takes a reaction to cast and therefore would be competing with Combat Inspiration. The former gives you a flat +5 to AC until the start of your next turn, while the latter is a random bonus against one attack which may not even be enough to turn a hit into a miss. If I was that Sorcerer, I would almost definitely be casting Shield instead and saving the Bardic Inspiration die for something else, rather than take the gamble that I will only need extra AC against one attack this round and I will definitely roll high enough with the Bardic Inspiration die to block this attack.

Of course, there are some reasons why Combat Inspiration can be better than Shield. It doesn't consume a spell slot for one thing, and it has the potential to provide more AC than Shield even if it is only against a single attack. That could be all the difference if the Sorcerer is a mere hit away from 0 HP. But the odds of it providing more AC are rather slim, and I think the Shield spell generally provides enough value to be worth the spell slot.

Cutting Words also would have worked in the example you gave to save the Sorcerer from being hit, assuming the Sorcerer knew Counterspell themselves and could have taken your place in counterspelling the enemy spellcaster. I don't know how these characters are built or what synergy they have, obviously. But I just wanted to point out that while Cutting Words takes away your reaction to use it, Combat Inspiration takes away your ally's reaction. No matter what a reaction from someone has to be used.

I think Combat Inspiration competing with other things like Counterspell, Shield, or even an opportunity attack is a big reason why it can feel rather lackluster. Cutting Words taking up your own reaction can be equally hindering, but I think it makes up for it in versatility. It may not be used in combat very often, but I think it provides a lot more value when it is utilized. It can be used against any ability check, which includes a lot important things like:

Initiative
Insight (Not only important when making a Deception check, but also helps if a creature is trying to investigate an illusion made by Major Image, Phantasmal Force, etc.)
Counterspell (Doesn't happen often. But this definitely saved me once.)
Dispel Magic
Grapple
Shove

Personally, I think Bardic Inspiration is already really strong and the new options Combat Inspiration provide doesn't make it much stronger. Keep in mind that the additional options are competing with all the old ones too. Turning your ally's miss into a hit can be equally as important as turning an enemy's hit into a miss; and this option doesn't take up anyone's reaction. Making sure a party member isn't failing a saving throw is also quite important. There is a fairly decent chance the person you gave inspiration to might use it for one the default options before the chance to use it for "Combat Inspiration" even arises. Or worse, they might need it to succeed a saving throw later in the fight but have already used it to block an attack, and now they're in a far worse position.

Overall, I think Cutting Words is far superior. But I think it's a bit of a moot point anyways. Valor Bard and Lore Bard aren't designed to do the same things. Likewise, Cutting Words and Combat Inspiration were designed to do different things. This feels a bit like asking, "Which is better? Dungeons and Dragons or The Office?" They just aren't the same. I think Lore Bard was designed to take a greater supporting role than Valor Bard, and therefore the extra Bardic Inspiration options that it gains are naturally a bit weaker than the ones Lore Bard gets. But that's just my opinion.

[loki_ragnarock]

Say this about Combat Inspiration; the bard don't regret using it when it comes time to counterspell.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I think Combat Inspiration competing with other things like Counterspell, Shield, or even an opportunity attack is a big reason why it can feel rather lackluster. Cutting Words taking up your own reaction can be equally hindering, but I think it makes up for it in versatility. It may not be used in combat very often, but I think it provides a lot more value when it is utilized. It can be used against any ability check, which includes a lot important things like:
On the otherside of the coin a Lore Bard's Cutting words can compete with his own casting of counterspell.

[ad_hoc]

I actually find this example a bit unsatisfying. Most Sorcerers know the Shield spell, which takes a reaction to cast and therefore would be competing with Combat Inspiration. The former gives you a flat +5 to AC until the start of your next turn, while the latter is a random bonus against one attack which may not even be enough to turn a hit into a miss. If I was that Sorcerer, I would almost definitely be casting Shield instead and saving the Bardic Inspiration die for something else, rather than take the gamble that I will only need extra AC against one attack this round and I will definitely roll high enough with the Bardic Inspiration die to block this attack.

Of course, there are some reasons why Combat Inspiration can be better than Shield. It doesn't consume a spell slot for one thing, and it has the potential to provide more AC than Shield even if it is only against a single attack. That could be all the difference if the Sorcerer is a mere hit away from 0 HP. But the odds of it providing more AC are rather slim, and I think the Shield spell generally provides enough value to be worth the spell slot.

Cutting Words also would have worked in the example you gave to save the Sorcerer from being hit, assuming the Sorcerer knew Counterspell themselves and could have taken your place in counterspelling the enemy spellcaster. I don't know how these characters are built or what synergy they have, obviously. But I just wanted to point out that while Cutting Words takes away your reaction to use it, Combat Inspiration takes away your ally's reaction. No matter what a reaction from someone has to be used.

I think Combat Inspiration competing with other things like Counterspell, Shield, or even an opportunity attack is a big reason why it can feel rather lackluster. Cutting Words taking up your own reaction can be equally hindering, but I think it makes up for it in versatility. It may not be used in combat very often, but I think it provides a lot more value when it is utilized. It can be used against any ability check, which includes a lot important things like:

Initiative
Insight (Not only important when making a Deception check, but also helps if a creature is trying to investigate an illusion made by Major Image, Phantasmal Force, etc.)
Counterspell (Doesn't happen often. But this definitely saved me once.)
Dispel Magic
Grapple
Shove

Personally, I think Bardic Inspiration is already really strong and the new options Combat Inspiration provide doesn't make it much stronger. Keep in mind that the additional options are competing with all the old ones too. Turning your ally's miss into a hit can be equally as important as turning an enemy's hit into a miss; and this option doesn't take up anyone's reaction. Making sure a party member isn't failing a saving throw is also quite important. There is a fairly decent chance the person you gave inspiration to might use it for one the default options before the chance to use it for "Combat Inspiration" even arises. Or worse, they might need it to succeed a saving throw later in the fight but have already used it to block an attack, and now they're in a far worse position.

Overall, I think Cutting Words is far superior. But I think it's a bit of a moot point anyways. Valor Bard and Lore Bard aren't designed to do the same things. Likewise, Cutting Words and Combat Inspiration were designed to do different things. This feels a bit like asking, "Which is better? Dungeons and Dragons or The Office?" They just aren't the same. I think Lore Bard was designed to take a greater supporting role than Valor Bard, and therefore the extra Bardic Inspiration options that it gains are naturally a bit weaker than the ones Lore Bard gets. But that's just my opinion.

Your argument that regular inspiration gets used more is in favour of combat inspiration not against it.

Combat inspiration makes bardic inspiration better.

Cutting words is a worse alternative to bardic inspiration.