Just leveled up: help spell selection for gish character

[Selion]

Just leveled up:
Fighter 1 Wizard 4 (war magic)

This is my spell selection atm

cantrips: prestidigitation, firebolt, Booming Blade, GFB

1st level

Alarm
Find familiar
Detect magic
Shield
Comprehend languages
Grease
Absorb elements
Unseen servant

2nd level

Detect Thoughts (needed it for plot)
Dragon's Breath


Now i have to pick other 2 second level spells, i'm quite indecided between Web, Misty Step and See invisibility.
I think web is quite mandatory, i will not pick hypnotic pattern in future, because it doesn't fit my character concept, so i lack area cc spells.
I'm really wanting to pick misty step for battle positioning, but i fear if i don't pick see invisibility i may put my party in trouble in some specific situations.

[Chaos Paladin]

I personally would recommend Misty Step here--as a squishy wizard, it can really help you get out of dangerous grapples. It also has some out-of-combat use! Don't be afraid to teleport up to ledges, or into locked rooms if you can see into them.

It's not on your list, but possibly also consider Mirror Image? It's protective but non-concentration, and can really make a difference.

These spells, I've found, are the most generally helpful in combat--but if you feel See Invisibility is more useful to your specific campaign/character, by all means go for it!

[Selion]

I personally would recommend Misty Step here--as a squishy wizard, it can really help you get out of dangerous grapples. It also has some out-of-combat use! Don't be afraid to teleport up to ledges, or into locked rooms if you can see into them.

It's not on your list, but possibly also consider Mirror Image? It's protective but non-concentration, and can really make a difference.

These spells, I've found, are the most generally helpful in combat--but if you feel See Invisibility is more useful to your specific campaign/character, by all means go for it!

Oh, my character is actually quite tanky, he doesn't need to escape if locked in melee, i like the utility of reaching far spots or repositioning in combat, though.
See invisibility has the big con it works only on the caster, if i'm really in need i can just blast the area :smallamused:
It would be useful if we are ambushed by invisible foes to tell the party what's happening, or if there's something invisible hidden during exploration...

[RSP]

I won’t argue with See Invis or Misty, but if planning on Gish-ing, have you considered Shadow Blade? Without Extra Attack it’s not as good, but still a better weapon if not going with 2-handed weapon.

[Bobthewizard]

I would take Web for sure. I wouldn't bother with See Invisibility. It's too circumstantial. Misty step is great but I would plan to use all of your 2nd level slots on web. But it will be more valuable later so you could pick it up now.

Two other ideas. Levitate is another possibility since it can be used offensively against enemies with poor ranged attacks, or as utility to get to places the party can't reach. I would probably pick up Tasha's Hideous Laughter so you have a concentration control spell to use your 1st level slots on. It might not fit your character, though, if hypnotic pattern doesn't.

Then when you enter a combat, you decide if it is worth using a 2nd level slot on web based on the perceived threat, number of enemies, and positioning. If it isn't, consider Tasha's or grease. Then move in and get in melee, using shield to avoid getting hit.

[Valmark]

More information on the party and your character? You might not need AoE CC if it's already covered- that said, I'd surely suggest Misty Step to get out of sticky situations and for teleporting out of combat, or Magic Weapon (on somebody else).



It's not on your list, but possibly also consider Mirror Image? It's protective but non-concentration, and can really make a difference.


Also this if you're Dex-built- though by the looks of it your character likely uses Heavy or Medium, which severely hinders the effectivness of Mirror Image.

[Democratus]

I would suggest creating your own custom spell to meet whatever you feel your character is missing so far.

[Selion]

More information on the party and your character? You might not need AoE CC if it's already covered- that said, I'd surely suggest Misty Step to get out of sticky situations and for teleporting out of combat, or Magic Weapon (on somebody else).



Also this if you're Dex-built- though by the looks of it your character likely uses Heavy or Medium, which severely hinders the effectivness of Mirror Image.

Exactly, i'm a mountain dwarf in full plate and 16 to constitution. I'm playing the abjuration/evoker/battle control type that i'd expect from a battlefield oriented wizard, so i'm avoiding illusions/mind control/mischief spells.
My group is heavily melee oriented, this favors even more misty step to jump into the enemy backlines and close the opponents granting flanking to my comrades.
Leaning to misty step right now... if we'll face invisible opponents... well, there is a druid in a party, he should figure something to solve the issue if i cannot :P

[borg286]

A shout-out for Hold Person as a way to signal to the team to gang up on one guy.
Levitate can easily be a defender spell. Your goal as defender is to keep the squishies safe, and what safer place than out of reach.
I'll also urge against see invisibility. Get a rope and use mage hand to swing the other end around, or a sack of flour to pinpoint his location.
As a gish shadow blade should be your go-to for DPR stacking. If there is a bard or cleric in the group Dissonant whispers and Command(flee) are great ways to get in extra attacks.

[Selion]

A shout-out for Hold Person as a way to signal to the team to gang up on one guy.
Levitate can easily be a defender spell. Your goal as defender is to keep the squishies safe, and what safer place than out of reach.
I'll also urge against see invisibility. Get a rope and use mage hand to swing the other end around, or a sack of flour to pinpoint his location.
As a gish shadow blade should be your go-to for DPR stacking. If there is a bard or cleric in the group Dissonant whispers and Command(flee) are great ways to get in extra attacks.

I skipped shadow blade because if i'm not mistaken it doesn't stack with booming blade/GFB, which are my primary at will sources of damage ATM

[ImproperJustice]

I like Misty Step for moving out of prone positions or difficult terrain.

Someone already suggested Mirror Image because it’s non concentration and I think that’s good advice for a gish who is likely to take a hit or two along the way.

For the same reason, consider picking up Blindness at some point.
Yes, the Con save is rough unless you decide to target an enemy mage. But it can upcast to hit multiple targets, it’s fire and forget, targets a wide range of enemies, and allows for great follow ups by combat allies.

[BoxANT]

Blur, great spell for melee gish.

Misty Step, will most likely save your life, also paired with a scouting familiar, can allow you to reach difficult places.

Rope Trick, actually a very valuable spell for a) short rest in dangerous territory and b) emergency safe room for when the purple worm shows up.

[RogueJK]

I skipped shadow blade because if i'm not mistaken it doesn't stack with booming blade/GFB, which are my primary at will sources of damage ATM

That is correct. Pre-Tasha's you could combo the two. Now, RAW, you cannot. BB/GFB were reworded to now require a physical weapon worth 1 sp as a material component, which excludes a conjured psychic blade like Shadow Blade.

However, check with your DM. They may allow it. (I personally don't think the pre-Tasha's combo was overpowered.) If so, it's a great option for certain gishes, especially if you're DEX-based and/or plan on taking some Rogue levels.

[RSP]

I skipped shadow blade because if i'm not mistaken it doesn't stack with booming blade/GFB, which are my primary at will sources of damage ATM


That is correct. Pre-Tasha's you could combo the two. Now, RAW, you cannot. BB/GFB were reworded to now require a physical weapon worth 1 sp as a material component, which excludes a conjured psychic blade like Shadow Blade.

However, check with your DM. They may allow it. (I personally don't think the pre-Tasha's combo was overpowered.) If so, it's a great option for certain gishes, especially if you're DEX-based and/or plan on taking some Rogue levels.

If your DM doesn’t allow it, then it is indeed moot.

However, I don’t agree that it’s RAW not workable: Shadow Blade does indeed create a melee weapon; however, RAW, there’s no way to determine its value, so saying it’s definitively not worth 1 sp cannot be proved.

[Odessa333]

I'd grab Misty Step myself out of those options. I like my utility! See inv. is either a must have or don't bother depending on the table. Personally, I have never found myself needing it, so it is hard to rate. If you know your DM uses the spell, then grab it. If you don't know the DM, you might be able to hold off. If you are a wizard, you can always learn/scribe it later.

My gish characters usually like spells like alter self (gain gills to go underwater) spider climb (climb speed), levitate (limited 'flight') to do those physical things I can't do. Enlarge/reduce, invisibility and knock have also proved useful. Ideally you can scribe as much as you can, but until that fine day, pick what you like. I never use web, but if that's your thing, go for it.

[Fatefulforce]

Just leveled up:
Fighter 1 Wizard 4 (war magic)

This is my spell selection atm

cantrips: prestidigitation, firebolt, Booming Blade, GFB

1st level

Alarm
Find familiar
Detect magic
Shield
Comprehend languages
Grease
Absorb elements
Unseen servant

2nd level

Detect Thoughts (needed it for plot)
Dragon's Breath


Now i have to pick other 2 second level spells, i'm quite indecided between Web, Misty Step and See invisibility.
I think web is quite mandatory, i will not pick hypnotic pattern in future, because it doesn't fit my character concept, so i lack area cc spells.
I'm really wanting to pick misty step for battle positioning, but i fear if i don't pick see invisibility i may put my party in trouble in some specific situations.

In my opinion, Mirror image and misty step are 2 of the best spells in the game regardless of circle level.

I don't think you can go past them as a caster. They give you the survivability you need.

[Beelzebubba]

Misty Step can save your life, or someone else's, or set you up to attack someone squishy, or even get you through to the other side of a door with a small opening to look inside.

It's a hugely versatile spell, both offensively and defensively, and I think that's key with a Gish.

I'll throw in a vote for Web also. Battlefield control spells like that can single-handedly turn the tide of a combat when you're outnumbered. It can divide your opponents so you can focus fire smaller groups separately, give you several rounds of a head start when fleeing / retreating / escaping, and could be doubled up with fire Dragon Breath to soften up a group of enemies before an inevitable fight.

[follacchioso]

Most of your spells are based on attack rolls.
You need to have some save-based spells as well, otherwise you will struggle with high AC opponents.
Hold person is good because it targets a WIS save, which is usually low in the enemies that have high AC (fighters and so)
Maximilian earthen grasp helps with casters and archers.
You already have dragon's breath which is a good option, dex based.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Do you find you are using Dragon's Breath? I had a similar character (Ftr Sorc) and just found Web and cantrip (GFB or ranged) was better. Others have suggested DB is good if you cast it on an NPC, but otherwise, Meh.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I've gotten a lot of mileage out of Misty Step as a Bladesinger, and actually retired Shadow Blade because it was so much better than other concentration options. (See Invisibility has actually been my next-most-used spell, but that's campaign-dependent.)

Looking ahead, Counterspell is priceless, and Melf's Minute Meteors gives you a decent bonus action attack if you didn't have one already.

[RogueJK]

Dragon's Breath has its niche. It's basically Persistent Burning Hands, requiring Concentration, and with the ability to cast it on someone else and change up the element. If you frequently find yourself in situations where Burning Hands is repeatedly useful, then a 2nd level slot and your Concentration is a better investment than spending multiple 1st level slots.

The problem with Dragon's Breath is that it takes an action to use. Shortly after DB comes online at Level 3, almost any character will have found better things to do with their action than potentially close to near-contact distance and cause a mere 10.5/5 damage to one or a few bad guys. Many resourceless attacks like cantrips and weapons outstrip DB's 3d6 damage by Level 5, unless you are in a situation with a bunch of low DEX enemies clustered together in a cone's area for multiple rounds in a row. And if you have a bunch of low DEX enemies clustered together in an area, then you might as well just drop a Fireball on them, which is basically 3 rounds of Dragon's Breath in an even bigger area of effect, all in one turn.

It becomes a little more broadly useful if cast on something like a Familiar who can't Attack anyway, a weak NPC that's participating in the fight, or on a beefy summoned creature (summoned by another caster) with a weak attack

But even then, it's still going to start paling in comparison to some of the better Concentration spells as you continue to gain more Wizard levels, so even that doesn't really extend its usefulness all that much. So either way, DB is really only useful for a relatively small range of levels (mostly Levels 3 and 4), and only in situations where its damage is clearly going to better than what the targeted character/creature could be doing with their Action each round otherwise.