Building a Binder centered around casting spells

[Lazarock]

Hey !

I'll soon enter a new campaign and the DM gave us some limitations :
- No "tier 1", from the 2019's version of the Tier List.
- Tier 2 are "OK", after some modification (like, him choosing every spells if taking a tier 2 caster).
- Tier 3 are OK without change
- Tier 4 & 5 get a little "buff"

Starting level 5, 10k gold available.

No problem with that (even if, not choosing our spells when picking a Tier 2 caster is a bit... harsh), DM's the Ruler.

I LOVE the binder's mechanics.
I could only play one for a couple of month before the end of our company, but I was still enjoying it.
I played a KoSS Binder, totally loved it.

I thought about playing one this time too, but our party will be mainly composed of martial artists (crusader, swordsage, another one which I've forgotten the name...), so another melee character would be a bit "too much".

I'm looking for some help building a Binder (possibly Anima mage ?) who would go from 5th to 15th level, able to fill the "caster" slot.

I got 2 ideas for my character :
- Jester 4 / Binder 1 to gain access to some arcane spells & binder's level, aiming to Anima Mage pretty soon. Then taking all levels of Anima Mage.
I'm not so fond about this one, I can't really explain why. Perhaps I'm a bit scared about playing Anima Mage (listed as "too powerful" here and there) ?
But, I must say, playing a jester kobold could be really funny (I love that idea, main reason for picking Jester instead of every other spontaneous arcane casters).

- Binder 5 because why the **** not, then Binder up to 15th level, because yo ho you are a binder !
This one seems to be lacking "casting" power. I'm afraid about lacking behind my martial's friends.

A new one I found online while writing this post :
- Binder 5 / Ur priest 4 / Tenebroust Apostat 5
Strong, but because Ur priest is in there, ready to break some campaign.

I'm open to any suggestions !

See ya

[Efrate]

Bard into binder, anima mage into sublime chord. Possible early entry via precocious appentice or bind vestige and improved binding/imp. bind vestige, both of which can be questionable. Binder and bard share a cha focus, and you can finish with KotSS if you have levels left. SC is great but maybe a bit much for a t3 table.

The biggest thing you get from anima mage is free metamagic so pick something(s) you want to presist and build on that. The divine adaptation with ur priest and tenebreous apostate is going to be at least tier 2 if not 1, because nigh infinite persistomancy. It will likely be too strong for a tier 3 table.

[Rebel7284]

Ur Priest might be against the spirit of your table... if your DM okays it, you can go for it, but be wary of divine retribution/inquisition type things.

While Bard works, the spell progression is a bit slow until you get to Sublime Chord, and games often end early.

I would suggest you look at the tier 3 casters and decide which one works better with your play style.

Beguiler has one of the strongest spell lists outside of a tier 2, and Binder gives you some backup options in case none of your many spells are applicable. I would personally go with that. However, intelligence based casting makes you a little multiple attribute dependent (MAD), unless you go for the whole Venerable Dragonwraught Kobold thing for free mental stats.

Dread Necromancers cast off of charisma and have a fairly solid spell list for debuffs and minion creation. However, it can struggle in certain campaigns since people don't like undead. You can still end up with a solid debuffer even without making Zombies, of course.

Edit:
Warmages are bad. Even with free metamagic to blast more. But if you like blasting, they can work okay.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you're talking about this tier list (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?568771-Retiering-the-Classes-A-new-home), maybe go Beguiler or Dread Necromancer into Anima Mage. Despite being listed as Tier 2, they have fixed spell lists so you DM would only be picking your (very few) Advanced Learning spells for you.

Binding Zceryll (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718) gets you Summon Monster with a 5-round cooldown, among other benefits. Probably one of the best ones for a caster build.

With two flaws, go Beguiler or Dread Necromancer 1/ Binder 1/ Anima Mage 10/ Whatever, taking Improved Binding, any metamagic feat, and either Versatile Spellcaster or Improved Sigil: Krau. If you can get 2nd level spells from 1st level slots on a fixed list with Versatile Spellcaster, I'd make it a Human and use Beguiler with Able Learner.

[Lazarock]

If you're talking about this tier list (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?568771-Retiering-the-Classes-A-new-home), maybe go Beguiler or Dread Necromancer into Anima Mage. Despite being listed as Tier 2, they have fixed spell lists so you DM would only be picking your (very few) Advanced Learning spells for you.

Binding Zceryll (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718) gets you Summon Monster with a 5-round cooldown, among other benefits. Probably one of the best ones for a caster build.

With two flaws, go Beguiler or Dread Necromancer 1/ Binder 1/ Anima Mage 10/ Whatever, taking Improved Binding, any metamagic feat, and either Versatile Spellcaster or Improved Sigil: Krau. If you can get 2nd level spells from 1st level slots on a fixed list with Versatile Spellcaster, I'd make it a Human and use Beguiler with Able Learner.
I'm talking about this one :
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?600635-Why-each-class-is-in-its-tier-2019-update!
So Beguiler & Dread Necromancer are under the "tier 2" list.

Like I said, he will be picking every spell if it's tier 2, so even if there is a fixed spell lists, it doesn't matter :smallsmile:
Zceryll is also banned, we already discussed it together

I'll look into flaws, if they're allowed or not, thank you !

Ur Priest might be against the spirit of your table... if your DM okays it, you can go for it, but be wary of divine retribution/inquisition type things.

While Bard works, the spell progression is a bit slow until you get to Sublime Chord, and games often end early.

I would suggest you look at the tier 3 casters and decide which one works better with your play style.

Beguiler has one of the strongest spell lists outside of a tier 2, and Binder gives you some backup options in case none of your many spells are applicable. I would personally go with that. However, intelligence based casting makes you a little multiple attribute dependent (MAD), unless you go for the whole Venerable Dragonwraught Kobold thing for free mental stats.

Dread Necromancers cast off of charisma and have a fairly solid spell list for debuffs and minion creation. However, it can struggle in certain campaigns since people don't like undead. You can still end up with a solid debuffer even without making Zombies, of course.

Edit:
Warmages are bad. Even with free metamagic to blast more. But if you like blasting, they can work okay.
I looked, there is 4 arcane casters : Bard, Spellthief, warmage & Jester.
Bard could be a good choice, even if Jester seemed funnier to roleplay, and spellthief need either someone else to cast a 2nd slot spell to steal it, or 8 levels.
Warmage looks... weak.

Beguiler & Dread Necromancers are tier 2 from what I saw, aren't they ?
No words said about Ur Priest or any other PrC, perhaps he don't really care if base class is OK for him !

The only thing he said was "Oh, Anima Mage ? OK but no Zceryll for your Binder & I choose your sorcerer spells".


Bard into binder, anima mage into sublime chord. Possible early entry via precocious appentice or bind vestige and improved binding/imp. bind vestige, both of which can be questionable. Binder and bard share a cha focus, and you can finish with KotSS if you have levels left. SC is great but maybe a bit much for a t3 table.

The biggest thing you get from anima mage is free metamagic so pick something(s) you want to presist and build on that. The divine adaptation with ur priest and tenebreous apostate is going to be at least tier 2 if not 1, because nigh infinite persistomancy. It will likely be too strong for a tier 3 table.
Oh, nice one ! Thank you I'll talk with him about Sublime chord.


Update : Loredrake is allowed, for Jester or Bard, I think I will switch Jester's levels to Bard's

[Thurbane]

Given the table restrictions, Warmage/Binder/Anima Mage might be fun (seeing that Beguiler and Dread Necro are subject to the DM changing their entire spell list).

There are ways to expand the Warmage spell list, so that you have spells other than just blasting. A dip into Sand Shaper, while costing a caster level, would do wonders for expanding the spell list. If you lose no more than 2 caster levels overall you still get 9ths.

Depending how the DM rules Versatile Spellcaster to work with set list casters like Warmage, you may even be able to lose 4 caster levels and still get 9ths, leaving room for more Binding levels.

[Psyren]

Another option is to use the Anima Mage adaptation (ToM 53) that opens the PrC up to psionic characters. This will give you a decent PP pool that you can then spend on the psionic vestiges from Mind's Eye - particularly Abysm, who gives you access to useful powers like Energy Missile and Astral Construct.

Keep in mind that binder vestige powers are always supernatural regardless of where you get them, which means Abysm's Energy Missile will bypass all spell/power resistance and immunity, and his Astral Constructs cannot be dispelled by enemy casters, making them extremely potent even at high levels. You also dont need high-level psionic powers to be competitive at high levels due to how augmentation works.

Psion and Ardent both make for solid entrants for this build. Wilder also works, particularly for the Cha synergy, but you'll give up surge progression and will be a bit short on powers known.