Diplomacy? Eh! Who needs it?

[Tryranus_Magus]

I DO!

It's really fun playing my surly dwarf. But, appropriately he can't say two words without it coming back to bite him in his arse.

As a wizard, he has access to much magic. As a wizard though he has little access to ranks in Diplomacy. With a Diplomacy modifier of -2, what am I to do?

Seriously, I could use a Circlet of Persuasion, 5 ranks in Bluff, 5 ranks in Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty), 5 ranks in Sense Motive, take the Negotiator feat, and max out my cross class ranks in Diplomacy. But that seems like a lot of focus on something I really don't want to focus on.

And if you can't get instant gratification by circumventing the laws of nature and the machinations of a wily DM with some arcane manipulation, then what good is magic anyway? Am I right or am I right? Eh?

Eagle's Splendor will give me +4 to my Charisma, but I'm looking for a bigger boost. What spells are out there that could help me boost my Diplomacy during my talks with the Lord of the Manor without trying to ensorcel him? Because a botched Charm Person is sure to be the end of all diplomatic ties in the future.

What do you think?

[kpenguin]

Unless you have to engage in one-on-one talks, its better to leave to diplomacy on someone else.

[Jack Zander]

Homebrew a spell that gives you a +10 to diplomacy. Make sure it's illegal for bards to cast and only has a range of personal.

Still too powerful for a diplomancer rogue with UMD though...

[PlatinumJester]

Skill Focus Diplomacy or Negotiator feat. However you could just use Charm Person.

[Jack Zander]

Circlet of Persuasion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#circletofPersuasion) can help a bit more and stacks with Eagle's splendor.

[Jack Zander]

@ Jester:


Because a botched Charm Person is sure to be the end of all diplomatic ties in the future.

Skill focus is good though.

[Sornjss Lichdom]

the best diplomatic ever is the binder, even at low level he gets a +10 to his already high diplomancy score, and can rush it.

Digsguise self at will, makes it easy to sway the tide of a battle, telling the foes that "boss" said to go to another level of the complex. combined with a cross bow, and command 1/5rounds, makes for a fearsome combatant as well.

[Kurobara]

UMD a scroll/wand of Glibness and just lie so you can be using the absurd Bluff modifier it gives you instead of Diplomacy. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, UMD is cross-class, but it's one cross-class skill instead of trying to get synergy bonuses through like 5 skills.

[Reinboom]

Spell Compendium
Level 4 Sorcerer/ Wizard and level 4 Bard spell.
Voice of the Dragon

+10 Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Bluff + you can speak and understand Draconic for free.
10 minutes / level.
And you can end it early as a standard action to cast suggestion for free.

[MrNexx]

Homebrew a spell that gives you a +10 to diplomacy. Make sure it's illegal for bards to cast and only has a range of personal.

Still too powerful for a diplomancer rogue with UMD though...

I may view spell creation a little differently, but as I see it, such a spell wouldn't be "illegal for bards to cast", it would just be a spell no one has come up with for bards yet. If you created a completely new and unique spell, it's not going to automatically be available to other classes, even if it would be appropriate for them. Such a spell wouldn't be out of place on a Cleric's spell list... a slight, self-only buff to personal interaction skills? Seems right up their alley. But just because it could be a Clr 3 spell doesn't mean that every fifth level cleric in the world can prepare it tomorrow just because an obscure wizard on the other side of the world invented it.

[Jack Zander]

I may view spell creation a little differently, but as I see it, such a spell wouldn't be "illegal for bards to cast", it would just be a spell no one has come up with for bards yet. If you created a completely new and unique spell, it's not going to automatically be available to other classes, even if it would be appropriate for them. Such a spell wouldn't be out of place on a Cleric's spell list... a slight, self-only buff to personal interaction skills? Seems right up their alley. But just because it could be a Clr 3 spell doesn't mean that every fifth level cleric in the world can prepare it tomorrow just because an obscure wizard on the other side of the world invented it.

I meant in the sense that the DM should not allow bards to research or learn the spell. UMD prevails anyway though.

[Douglas]

Heroism and Greater Heroism give morale bonuses to all skill checks. Moment of Prescience gives an insight bonus equal to your caster level on a single opposed skill check, but it has to be an opposed check. Useful for negotiations but not for changing someone's attitude. If you can get access to low level cleric or paladin casting (use Limited Wish if it's important enough to spend 300 xp on), Divine Insight from the Spell Compendium gives an insight bonus equal to caster level on any single skill check, opposed or not, but caps lower and doesn't have the other options Moment of Prescience has.

[Reinboom]

I meant in the sense that the DM should not allow bards to research or learn the spell. UMD prevails anyway though.

Bards can already access 'the spell' - given - as I pointed out above, there already exists an official spell that gives +10 Diplomacy.
And it's on the bard's list.

[PlatinumJester]

@ Jester:



Skill focus is good though.

Yeah that happened to me once. I ended up in prison but I used another charm person o get my spellbook back which allowed me to escape.

Also it doesn't work if there is more than one person in the room who isn't on your side.

[Miles Invictus]

There are feats that give Diplomacy as a class skill.

[Townopolis]

Leadership

Bard cohort

problem solved. Also, your new friend can cast joyful noise if you get silenced, and I'm sure you can find some other uses for him/her.

If you're the only PC, leadership should be the most acceptable feat ever. If not, have someone else's PC handle all the talking.

[MrNexx]

I meant in the sense that the DM should not allow bards to research or learn the spell. UMD prevails anyway though.

Why not? Why shouldn't bards have a spell that gives a bonus to Diplomacy? It's somewhat sub-optimal for them to learn (given their limited spell knowledge), but it's completely in-line with their other spells.

[Curmudgeon]

Friendly Face (Races of Destiny, page 166) gives a +5 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy. Because different circumstance bonuses stack, you can always add the standard masterwork tool for +2 to the skill. (Personally, I think that's likely to be some eyeliner: emphasizing your eyes will help focus the other person's attention on you. But I guess it could just as likely be a tiara, or a headband with an eye-catching design.)

[Mewtarthio]

Friendly Face (Races of Destiny, page 166) gives a +5 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy. Because different circumstance bonuses stack, you can always add the standard masterwork tool for +2 to the skill. (Personally, I think that's likely to be some eyeliner: emphasizing your eyes will help focus the other person's attention on you. But I guess it could just as likely be a tiara, or a headband with an eye-catching design.)

It's a Masterwork Big Stick.

[Ralfarius]

Or masterwork perfume/cologne. Who can argue against smelling good?

[Jack Zander]

Why not? Why shouldn't bards have a spell that gives a bonus to Diplomacy? It's somewhat sub-optimal for them to learn (given their limited spell knowledge), but it's completely in-line with their other spells.

I suppose you're right, but bards don't need another boost to diplomacy.

[MrNexx]

I suppose you're right, but bards don't need another boost to diplomacy.

Oh, I agree. They seldom do need the boost, and won't want to waste the slot learning it. I was just saying there's no philsophical/game balance reason for them not to have it.

[Tryranus_Magus]

So to boost a dwarf's circumstance bonuses for free he could...

Take a bath with some perfumed bath oils, trim his beard neatly, use some mouth wash, brush his tooth, wear some cologne, iron his tunic, clean/polish his boots, brush his mane, dab some red Kool Aid on his lips, and Vaseline on his teeth.

What would that give him? +2 to his Diplomacy check? :smallcool: