Death Touch Dark Gift

[GearsX]

Seems like an amazing ability to be used on a monk who specialises in unarmed combat..

Finally some love for monks?

With a way to increase their unarmed dmg.

I didnt see any draw backs to that gift though, so it might be something in the sorts of anything you touch slowly dies lol.

[Seekergeek]

Yeah, my reading of it is that you can’t touch anything without doing that damage to it, though the language could and should certainly be more explicit. As far as the monk goes, it’s more akin I think to the blade attack cantrips in that you only get one attack as an action with it so multi attack doesn’t work with it and it wouldn’t apply to your martial arts bonus attacks. All that said, I’m away from book and would be happy to be mistaken.

[GearsX]

Yeah, my reading of it is that you can’t touch anything without doing that damage to it, though the language could and should certainly be more explicit. As far as the monk goes, it’s more akin I think to the blade attack cantrips in that you only get one attack as an action with it so multi attack doesn’t work with it and it wouldn’t apply to your martial arts bonus attacks. All that said, I’m away from book and would be happy to be mistaken.

Even if it doesnt work with multiple attacks its still free d10 necro dmg added that can be resisted to your first unarmed attack. ill take that any day.

Make A dhampir astral self monk, Get free darkvision, spider climb, ranged unarmed attacks with death touch. you also get the dhampirs natural bite attack, Would make for a very fun build id say.

[verbatim]

Even if it doesnt work with multiple attacks its still free d10 necro dmg added that can be resisted to your first unarmed attack.

RAW you have to make only a single main action unarmed strike to get the death touch damage, you can't use it with extra attack.

The part about it applying anytime you touch anything appears to be flavor without underlying mechanics attached

[GearsX]

RAW you have to make only a single main action unarmed strike to get the death touch damage, you can't use it with extra attack.

The part about it applying anytime you touch anything appears to be flavor without underlying mechanics attached

My bad, forgot about that, but still, its a massive buff for a monk considering they only get d10 fists at 17th lvl, but with said gift they can be hitting 4d10 extra necro dmg by 17th lvl, so even if it is only 1 action it ends up out damaging the extra attack fists, even if you factor in 2 attacks at 1d10 each + fury of blows.

the 1 attack of 1d10 fist + 4d10 unresistable necrotic dmg, which you can still empower with stunning and other monk goodies.

Heck you can even go with a str build and con, grapple enemies, use the dhampir bite to gain a bonus to your next abillity check which would be used for the grappling and let the death touch do its work also.

Try pulling someone up to the ceiling with you with spider climb and then drop em.

As a dhampir, you dont need to worry about eating, so dont have to worry about food dieing in your hands lol

[quindraco]

RAW you have to make only a single main action unarmed strike to get the death touch damage, you can't use it with extra attack.

The part about it applying anytime you touch anything appears to be flavor without underlying mechanics attached

Really? I thought it automatically goes off if you're in a grapple while both parties are naked.

[verbatim]

Really? I thought it automatically goes off if you're in a grapple while both parties are naked.

This much is true. I guess what I'm trying to say is RAW you can high five a teammate and it wouldn't hurt them unless you wanted to or tried to grapple on the high five... lol

[Wizard_Lizard]

Make a grung grapple build with it..

[Chaos Jackal]

My bad, forgot about that, but still, its a massive buff for a monk considering they only get d10 fists at 17th lvl, but with said gift they can be hitting 4d10 extra necro dmg by 17th lvl, so even if it is only 1 action it ends up out damaging the extra attack fists, even if you factor in 2 attacks at 1d10 each + fury of blows.

It doesn't outdamage your normal attack routine.

At lv5, assuming 18 Dex, your Death Touch deals an average of 18.5 damage. Your regular unarmed strikes deal 7.5 damage each, and you get three of them. Four if you spend a ki point. With a +7 bonus against, say, AC 15, your Death Touch DPR is 12.75 (17.6475 with advantage) versus 15.15 DPR for Extra Attack+Martial Arts (20.7675 with advantage) or 20.2 DPR for Extra Attack+Flurry of Blows (27.69 with advantage). Higher if you use a quarterstaff two-handed for your two standard attacks and only use unarmed strikes on Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows. Higher still if you have longsword proficiency (or battleaxe, or warhammer) and use that two-handed via Dedicated Weapon.

At lv11, assuming 20 Dex, your Death Touch deals an average of 26 damage. Your (three or four) unarmed strikes deal 9.5 damage each. With a +9 bonus against, say, AC 17, your Death Touch DPR is 17.95 (24.8625 with advantage), while your Martial Arts DPR is 19.2 (26.325 with advantage) and your Flurry of Blows DPR is 25.6 (35.1 with advantage). Longsword possibility for increased damage still applies.

At lv17 your Death Touch deals an average of 32.5 damage. Your unarmed strikes deal 10.5 damage each. With a +11 bonus against, say, AC 20, your Death Touch DPR is 20.875 (29.98125 with advantage), while by now your Martial Arts DPR is 19.725 (28.06875 with advantage) and your Flurry of Blows DPR is 26.3 (37.425 with advantage).

Calculations done using LudicSavant's calculator, if you want to verify them.

So, Death Touch outdamages only the Martial Arts attack routine, only at lv17+ and only barely (Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows is ahead before you get Extra Attack too). It never outdamages Flurry of Blows; in fact, it's not even close. If you somehow find a way to augment your unarmed strikes (something like the Eldritch Claw tattoo) or get a magical longsword for Dedicated Weapon (maybe with damage riders too) the difference becomes even bigger. And crucially, Death Touch gives you far less opportunities to stun.

There's something to be said about leaving your bonus action free in case you want to Step of the Wind or Patient Defense or whatever, in which case your Death Touch is better than two longsword attacks from lv11 onwards, but that's it. Touch of Death is an OK alternative if you wanna use your bonus action for something else, but it's not gonna beat standard monk DPR.

Still useful for grappling, of course, particularly with a flying or climbing race, but you won't be using Death Touch there, you'll be using Withering Contact.

[Ogun]

Who would benifit from death touch, if not the monk?
Other grappler builds?
Wildshaped druids?

[whateew]

It unfortunately absolutely does not work with the monk. Monks martial art bonus action punch only works if you take the attack action, and the special melee attack would not trigger this. While you can still make that 1d10 attack boost, saving your bonus action for something else, this benefit is not unique to the monk, and the fact you forgo that bonus action attack means you lose quite a bit as a monk.


Who would benifit from death touch, if not the monk?
Other grappler builds?
Wildshaped druids?

I believe it would be difficult to use quite a few animals because, in their stat blocks, their attacks are using natural weapons quite often.
However, I currently have a plan for a death touch spores druid barb.
Tortle w/ 17 str, 16 wis and 14 con, starting with 1 level in barb and going rest druid, taking tavern brawler at 5th. Druids have a glut of good non wis spells and buffs, and having 2 rages for close quarters, but the option to hang back with spells, seems quite usable to me honestly - further, spells like plant growth would continue to be useful post-rage.

Assuming you can spores up before combat starts, you can deal 1d4 + 2d10 + 1d6 + 4 at 5th level, with an additional 2 damage with rage. The rage will make your spores temp hp last a lot longer too, while having an AC of 19 with a shield.

Further, you can then bonus action grapple with advantage after raging, and get a bonus 1d10! Unlike most features, tavern brawler specifies it works after you make an unarmed attack, not taking the attack action like the monk, so this should all work RAW.

[verbatim]

Who would benifit from death touch, if not the monk?
Other grappler builds?
Wildshaped druids?

A Grung Rune Knight Fighter who takes unarmed Fighting Style and then maybe uses a feat to get athletics expertise?

[Theodoxus]

A death cleric seems thematic... only gets 1 attack anyway. Grab the unarmed fighting style. 1d6(or 8 sans shield) + 1d10 (ToD Dark Gift) + (5 + (2xcleric level) Channel Divinity) + 1 or 2d8 (Divine Strike) + Str... better than a twinned Toll the Dead... And you have full cleric spells on top.

ETA: hmm... looking at Divine Strike, it specifically calls out a weapon attack... so maybe that portion of the damage wouldn't work. I'd rule it ok just because it's a lot to make the build work, but ymmv.

[GearsX]

It doesn't outdamage your normal attack routine.

At lv5, assuming 18 Dex, your Death Touch deals an average of 18.5 damage. Your regular unarmed strikes deal 7.5 damage each, and you get three of them. Four if you spend a ki point. With a +7 bonus against, say, AC 15, your Death Touch DPR is 12.75 (17.6475 with advantage) versus 15.15 DPR for Extra Attack+Martial Arts (20.7675 with advantage) or 20.2 DPR for Extra Attack+Flurry of Blows (27.69 with advantage). Higher if you use a quarterstaff two-handed for your two standard attacks and only use unarmed strikes on Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows. Higher still if you have longsword proficiency (or battleaxe, or warhammer) and use that two-handed via Dedicated Weapon.

At lv11, assuming 20 Dex, your Death Touch deals an average of 26 damage. Your (three or four) unarmed strikes deal 9.5 damage each. With a +9 bonus against, say, AC 17, your Death Touch DPR is 17.95 (24.8625 with advantage), while your Martial Arts DPR is 19.2 (26.325 with advantage) and your Flurry of Blows DPR is 25.6 (35.1 with advantage). Longsword possibility for increased damage still applies.

At lv17 your Death Touch deals an average of 32.5 damage. Your unarmed strikes deal 10.5 damage each. With a +11 bonus against, say, AC 20, your Death Touch DPR is 20.875 (29.98125 with advantage), while by now your Martial Arts DPR is 19.725 (28.06875 with advantage) and your Flurry of Blows DPR is 26.3 (37.425 with advantage).

Calculations done using LudicSavant's calculator, if you want to verify them.

So, Death Touch outdamages only the Martial Arts attack routine, only at lv17+ and only barely (Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows is ahead before you get Extra Attack too). It never outdamages Flurry of Blows; in fact, it's not even close. If you somehow find a way to augment your unarmed strikes (something like the Eldritch Claw tattoo) or get a magical longsword for Dedicated Weapon (maybe with damage riders too) the difference becomes even bigger. And crucially, Death Touch gives you far less opportunities to stun.

There's something to be said about leaving your bonus action free in case you want to Step of the Wind or Patient Defense or whatever, in which case your Death Touch is better than two longsword attacks from lv11 onwards, but that's it. Touch of Death is an OK alternative if you wanna use your bonus action for something else, but it's not gonna beat standard monk DPR.

Still useful for grappling, of course, particularly with a flying or climbing race, but you won't be using Death Touch there, you'll be using Withering Contact.

I still think the martial arts bonus would add with the death touch though, sure you lose the 1 extra attck but martial arts states

"When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn,"

and the death touch is

" You can use an action to make an Unarmed Strike"

and still nothing stopping you from using flurry of blows with it also considered that it is still an attack action, cause you are using an action to attack. (I guess depends on the dm on that) so those calculations u made would still count while using death touch...

Maybe its just the way im reading it, but the way I take it is by using the action you lose out on the extra attack but you are still using this ability to attack so are not losing out on martial arts + flurry of blows

[Chaos Jackal]

I still think the martial arts bonus would add with the death touch though, sure you lose the 1 extra attck but martial arts states

"When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn,"

and the death touch is

" You can use an action to make an Unarmed Strike"

and still nothing stopping you from using flurry of blows with it also considered that it is still an attack action, cause you are using an action to attack. (I guess depends on the dm on that) so those calculations u made would still count while using death touch...

Maybe its just the way im reading it, but the way I take it is by using the action you lose out on the extra attack but you are still using this ability to attack so are not losing out on martial arts + flurry of blows

Extra Attack also reads "Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn." So you can either do any or all of them, or you can do none. And the answer is none.

Maybe you're confusing the Attack action with taking an attack. The Attack action is a specific action detailed in page 192 of the Player's Handbook, not just any action that involves an attack roll. If that were the case, you'd still be able to take additional attacks after, say, taking an attack of opportunity, or using booming blade. Which isn't the case.

Death Touch is its own action. It's not the Attack action, and therefore doesn't trigger Extra Attack, Martial Arts, Flurry of Blows or any other feature that requires you to take the Attack action.

[Unoriginal]

Who would benifit from death touch, if not the monk?

It's a Dark Gift, I don't think anyone is supposed to actually benefit from it.

[Waazraath]

It's a Dark Gift, I don't think anyone is supposed to actually benefit from it.

I'm not sure - don't have the book in front of me but I thougt that section mentioned that they are supposed to be a mixed blessing, sometimes helping to overcome the party seemingly unsurmountable odds, while at other times harming them?

I think this one (Death Touch) is a very interesting one, it's a DPR increase for builds that could use a boost (like unarmed fighting for non-monks, and grapple builds) - but with a very steep cost regarding the social pillar. It's a difficult tradeoff, which for me makes sense for the Dark Gift theme.

[Amnestic]

I'm not sure - don't have the book in front of me but I thougt that section mentioned that they are supposed to be a mixed blessing, sometimes helping to overcome the party seemingly unsurmountable odds, while at other times harming them?

I think this one (Death Touch) is a very interesting one, it's a DPR increase for builds that could use a boost (like unarmed fighting for non-monks, and grapple builds) - but with a very steep cost regarding the social pillar. It's a difficult tradeoff, which for me makes sense for the Dark Gift theme.

They're minor boons with somedrawbacks - some worse than others, some entirely negligible.

The Misty Travels dark gift gives you Misty Step 1/LR (and you can use your own spell slots to cast it), you can easily pass through the Mists to get to the domain you want to be in...but you also need to be on the move regularly.

When you long rest, the area in a 10 mile radius starts to leech your vitality. You get a grace period of a number of weeks equal to your ConMod (minimum 1) after which you have to beat a DC15 consave on each long rest, or get one level of exhaustion that can't be removed while in the area.

So this could be entirely beneficial - if your party is constantly on the move (or at least enough so that you're not staying in one place for more than 2-3 weeks at a time), it's essentially a free misty step per long rest and on your spells known list. Fun.

On the other hand, if your party doesn't move about a lot, if you're stuck in one city or area for weeks on end it could be absolutely crippling/lethal.

In Death Touch's case it doesn't really have any direct mechanical drawback spelled out, just that it causes pain to those who touch your bare skin. It's a drawback that'll mostly be roleplay related, but I could see a DM expand on it to have the grapple damage apply if you're, for instance, carrying or dragging someone in a friendly way.

[rlc]

I was thinking about this gift yesterday and pretty much came to the conclusion that it doesn’t need an explicitly stated disadvantage because it’s specific enough that building around the touch of death part itself requires quite a bit of investment.
On the other hand, the bullet point mentioning ignoring necrotic resistance would work great with somebody focusing on necrotic damage from other sources.

[Waazraath]

I was thinking about this gift yesterday and pretty much came to the conclusion that it doesn’t need an explicitly stated disadvantage because it’s specific enough that building around the touch of death part itself requires quite a bit of investment.
On the other hand, the bullet point mentioning ignoring necrotic resistance would work great with somebody focusing on necrotic damage from other sources.

Resistance or immunity? If resistance is enough, it wouldn't be a drawback in party full of aasimar's - though having a party full of angelic creatures in an evil twisted horrow realm might be a drawback in itself.

[rlc]

Resistance or immunity? If resistance is enough, it wouldn't be a drawback in party full of aasimar's - though having a party full of angelic creatures in an evil twisted horrow realm might be a drawback in itself.
What I’m talking about specifically is this:

Inescapable Death. When you hit a target with an attack roll and deal necrotic damage, you ignore the target's resistance to that damage.
Not sure if I was unclear, but I wasn’t saying that this bullet point is a drawback, but rather a nifty little feature to pay attention to, if you’re making an attack that deals necrotic damage.

[verbatim]

I think we should mainly be thinking of this as a variant on the melee SCAG canaries.

The classes that would benefit most from this are those that may need to melee but don't get extra attack.

- most clerics.


- moon druid (I think spore druid's necro damage is incompatible with this)


- Phantom Rogue's level 3 ability deals necro damage that now ignores resistances.


- Undead Warlocks 6th level feature let's you add another d10.

[Waazraath]

What I’m talking about specifically is this:

Not sure if I was unclear, but I wasn’t saying that this bullet point is a drawback, but rather a nifty little feature to pay attention to, if you’re making an attack that deals necrotic damage.

Check, I misunderstood, nvm.

[whateew]

- moon druid (I think spore druid's necro damage is incompatible with this)



Iirc spores druid requires "melee weapon attacks" but not specifically a weapon, and unarmed strike are considered weapon attacks (although not a melee weapon) (as opposed to, say, spell attacks.)

[Kurt Kurageous]

It's a Dark Gift, I don't think anyone is supposed to actually benefit from it.

That's how I think it is, at least as presented in CoS.

After reading VGtR, it seems it's going in the direction of boons from DMG. I've made my peace with it saying, "It depends on who is the supreme dark power of the domain." In CoS, it's Vampyr, and he's not known for generosity, so it is in Barovia. Perhaps other supreme dark powers in other domains are more generous with their "gifts," in line with VGtR.

[BerzerkerUnit]

Extra Attack also reads "Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn." So you can either do any or all of them, or you can do none. And the answer is none.

Maybe you're confusing the Attack action with taking an attack. The Attack action is a specific action detailed in page 192 of the Player's Handbook, not just any action that involves an attack roll. If that were the case, you'd still be able to take additional attacks after, say, taking an attack of opportunity, or using booming blade. Which isn't the case.

Death Touch is its own action. It's not the Attack action, and therefore doesn't trigger Extra Attack, Martial Arts, Flurry of Blows or any other feature that requires you to take the Attack action.

Extra Attack is very clearly worded so that it wouldn't apply to AoOs since those don't typically occur on your turn, and even if they did, taking an AoO is different from taking the Attack action on your turn (a thing that requires your Action, not your Reaction). Booming Blade is never a concern because that requires the Cast a Spell action.

While I agree the wording here is a little wonky, this ability is such garbage when compared to the other options presented I have to think it was intended to be something more like "When you make an unarmed strike as part of your action you may..." or "When you take the attack action make an unarmed strike that deals an additional 1d10 necrotic damage..." etc. Admittedly, ignoring resistance isn't bad since there are a handful of builds that can make great use of it, but honestly, if that's the intended focal point of the "Dark Gift" it should be named something else.

Compare what other Gifts grant to "ok cantrip" and it's a real head scratcher. If the damage is automatic while grappling, that's another matter though. EDIT: damage on grapple is limited to 1d10. I guess it's not nothing, but I know my PC would feel absolutely cursed if all physical contact were pain for others in exchange for a little extra damage on a grapple.

[Segev]

They're minor boons with somedrawbacks - some worse than others, some entirely negligible.

The Misty Travels dark gift gives you Misty Step 1/LR (and you can use your own spell slots to cast it), you can easily pass through the Mists to get to the domain you want to be in...but you also need to be on the move regularly.

When you long rest, the area in a 10 mile radius starts to leech your vitality. You get a grace period of a number of weeks equal to your ConMod (minimum 1) after which you have to beat a DC15 consave on each long rest, or get one level of exhaustion that can't be removed while in the area.

So this could be entirely beneficial - if your party is constantly on the move (or at least enough so that you're not staying in one place for more than 2-3 weeks at a time), it's essentially a free misty step per long rest and on your spells known list. Fun.

On the other hand, if your party doesn't move about a lot, if you're stuck in one city or area for weeks on end it could be absolutely crippling/lethal.

In Death Touch's case it doesn't really have any direct mechanical drawback spelled out, just that it causes pain to those who touch your bare skin. It's a drawback that'll mostly be roleplay related, but I could see a DM expand on it to have the grapple damage apply if you're, for instance, carrying or dragging someone in a friendly way.

Somebody who maintains two homes could simply move back and forth between them (provided there's at least ten miles separating them) every two or three months, depending on his Constitution score. Could explain why the sickly noblewoman needs "a change of scenery" every few months, going to the seaside for the fresh air or somesuch.

A kid whose parents are separated who has to spend alternating weeks at different houses - again, provided enough separation between them, physically - could possibly never know of his curse and only see the blessing side of it.

And, of course, the Vistani will never be bothered by the curse side of it at all.

[Glorthindel]

Somebody who maintains two homes could simply move back and forth between them (provided there's at least ten miles separating them) every two or three months, depending on his Constitution score. Could explain why the sickly noblewoman needs "a change of scenery" every few months, going to the seaside for the fresh air or somesuch.

A kid whose parents are separated who has to spend alternating weeks at different houses - again, provided enough separation between them, physically - could possibly never know of his curse and only see the blessing side of it.

And, of course, the Vistani will never be bothered by the curse side of it at all.

Of course, someone who could trivially negate the downside would never be given that 'Gift' in the first place - the point of a Dark Gift is to allow the recepient to more easily carry out the crimes that drew the Dark Powers attension in the first place, while deliberately taking away the things they love.

That 'Gift' would be more suited to someone whose crime was cowardice but who is particularly tied to one place (be it due to family or sentimentality), so the gift makes it easier for them to flee danger, whilst denying them the ability to spend significant time with the people they love (who will likely find themselves unwilling to move from their homes).

As for the Death Touch 'Gift'; that seems suited to a killer who has a liking for 'close and personal physical affection' (Hmm, seems like it is designed for a particular type of 'That Guy'!). In particular, if seems to be a weaker version of Ivana Boritsi's curse.

[Segev]

Of course, someone who could trivially negate the downside would never be given that 'Gift' in the first place - the point of a Dark Gift is to allow the recepient to more easily carry out the crimes that drew the Dark Powers attension in the first place, while deliberately taking away the things they love.

That 'Gift' would be more suited to someone whose crime was cowardice but who is particularly tied to one place (be it due to family or sentimentality), so the gift makes it easier for them to flee danger, whilst denying them the ability to spend significant time with the people they love (who will likely find themselves unwilling to move from their homes).Fair enough, though the Mists one has being trained by a traveling, nomadic people as a possible way of getting the gift, so I imagine that the Vistani "enjoy" it rather commonly. They're nomadic for a reason, after all, and while they're mysterious and full of romantic potential in their freedom to roam, they ARE never welcome anywhere they go, not really, which is its own sort of curse, I think.

Sure, the Vistani are adapted to this lifestyle, and are even happy in it, but it still causes them problems and pains, making them constantly strangers in a collection of lands that fear and dis


As for the Death Touch 'Gift'; that seems suited to a killer who has a liking for 'close and personal physical affection' (Hmm, seems like it is designed for a particular type of 'That Guy'!). In particular, if seems to be a weaker version of Ivana Boritsi's curse....I'd been trying to figure out where the "down side" bullet point was. It hadn't occurred to me that there are *ahem* situations where you might be considered "grappled" that neither the grappler nor the grapple-ee might find objectionable. This one probably could have used a bit more explicitness if this is the intended curse side of it. Something mentioning specifically that this means they can't even hold somebody in a hug without hurting them.