Optimizing an Iaijutsu Master + Sneak Attack Build

[Marin]

Yo! I'm thinking about making an Iaijutsu Master + Sneak Attack character and just... seeing how many d6s I can toss at my tolerant friends before they start shaking their head at me every time I attack. I'm seeking that extra bit of help theorycrafting though.

Some important context:

All official material including dragon magazine is allowed. ...except non-forgotten realms campaign settings books.
We will be using generous chargen rules that guarantees I'll have at least one 18 prior to any racial modifiers.
Speaking of races, I don't care if I'm slightly behind others in EXP. Assume I'm fine with anything LA+2 or less. +4 is the maximum LA I'd be willing to tolerate, if it's really good. All official templates are valid.
Assume that I will be getting generous amounts of gold and that magic items will be readily available, including custom magic items.
We will be leaning heavily on RAW, only ever deviating if the game breaks in ways that are very obviously not intended. Assume a nice DM where the rules explicitly call for the DM to make a choice.
All Variant Rules / variant classes / Generic Classes are valid. That means 2 flaws for 2 extra starting feats. Fractional BAB/Saves.


Feat Tax for Iaijutsu Master: Improved Initiative, Quick Draw, Weapon Focus (Katana)

The reason I never go for the capstone of Iaijutsu Master 10 is because it's somewhat lackluster in its situationalness. All builds I list below have 9d6 sneak attack unless stated otherwise in the pros section.

My ideas so far:

Generic Spellcaster 1-6 --> Incantatrix 1 --> Generic Expert 1 --> Incantatrix 2-3, Spellcaster 7-8 --> Iaijutsu Master 1-2 --> Spellcaster 9-10 --> Iaijutsu Master 3-5 --> Incantatrix 4

Pros: Level 7 spells. Persistant spells. Lots of fun to be had there. Persistent Divine Power = Full BaB. Persistent Haste = more chances to activate IF / sneak attack.

Cons: Lack of Iaijutsu Master 8 means that you get one less attack and one less potential IF on turns you can't full attack. Feat starved. Has to reach level 19 before they get Iaijutsu Master 5 and level 16 for 9d6 sneak attack

Generic Spellcaster 1-6 --> Incantatrix 1 --> Generic Expert 1 --> Incantatrix 2-3 --> Arcane Trickster 1-2 --> Iaijutsu Master 1-2 --> Generic Expert 2 --> Iaijutsu Master 3-5 --> Arcane Trickster 3-4

Pros: Compared to the previous build, gets an extra 2d6 sneak attack for 11d6 total. This is accomplished by using the generic expert levels to grab improved/greater sneak attack instead of delaying spellcaster class features. Gets Iaijutsu Master 5 at Level 18 and 10d6 sneak attack at level 15, making it slightly less slow to start up.

Cons: Compared to the previous build, only gets level 6 spells.

Generic Warrior 12 Iaijutsu Master 8

Pros: Full BAB out of the box. 4 leftover bonus feats.

Cons: Simple and straight forward. Doesn't get spells to play with.

Generic Expert 2, Generic Warrior 10, Iaijutsu Master 8

Pros: 5 leftover bonus feats, moar skills

Cons: Sacrifices 1 BAB and a tiny bit of HP compared to the previous build.

Generic Expert 2, Generic Warrior 8, Spellcaster (Arcane) 1, Spellcaster (Divine) 1, Iaijutsu Master 8

Pros: 6 leftover bonus feats, lots of low level spells to play with. (I'd probably use them on healing/utility. Lesser Vigor can heal a heck of a lot even at high levels if you've got down time and bonus spell slots.)

Cons: Sacrifices an additional 2 BAB and a tiny bit more HP compared to the previous build


My gut is telling me I could potentially optimize my feats better with prestige classes instead of multi-classing Expert/Spellcaster, but I'm not sure which prestige I ought to go for for that. I don't know that any non-generic classes can get me big sneak attack and bonus feats at once or sneak attack and spellcasting at once, is the reason for me avoiding them.

[Elves]

I was just talking about combining it with shadow pounce: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?627935-Fairy-of-Death-a-new-Iaijutsu-Focus-build

[Anthrowhale]

Triggering IF and SA reliably is typically the challenging aspect here. Of these, IF is more difficult. Collecting all the skill tricks and maneuvers which cause flat-footed is helpful.

You might want to look at Aereni Focus for picking up IF since that allows full BAB. You might also want to look at the sneak attack fighter and definitely pick up Craven.

There is little point in Iajutsu Master beyond level 5.

[Marin]

Triggering IF and SA reliably is typically the challenging aspect here. Of these, IF is more difficult. Collecting all the skill tricks and maneuvers which cause flat-footed is helpful.

You might want to look at Aereni Focus for picking up IF since that allows full BAB. You might also want to look at the sneak attack fighter and definitely pick up Craven.

There is little point in Iajutsu Master beyond level 5.

Hmm... The problem with Sneak Attack Fighter and Aereni Focus is that you lose a feat and get no bonus feats compared to just playing warrior, who can choose Iaijutsu Focus as a class skill and gets both sneak attack and bonus feats. The result would be even more feat starved than the caster variant I posted above, and as such doesn't feel viable.

Aerenei focus would also require me to play an elf, which doesn't allow for any racial optimization.

Leveling down Iaijutsu Master 8 to Iaijutsu Master 5...

For the full martial builds, 2 more warrior levels would give a bonus feat, and I could take the avenger prestige class for another d6 of sneak attack. Or maybe just 3 levels of avenger for 2d6 sneak attack. I feel like 1d6 and the feat is probably the better value though.

For spellcaster variants it means 6th level spells instead of 5th level spells, and the ability to cut out divine metamagic and replace it with incantatrix levels since I can just use that to persist my spells, and a lot more spells at that, gaining 2 bonus feat in the process. 3 levels of incantatrix would be just enough to make that work. I could also just drop the 2nd expert level for a bonus metamagic feat, and also for 7th level spells. Sadly, I need the first expert level because spellcaster's bonus feats don't line up with sneak attack progression nicely and I don't know of any prestige classes that fully advance spellcasting which I can take before level 5 that won't involve questionable racial choices.

Is that worth losing the extra attack from Iaijutsu Master 8? ...Maybe? I'm leaning towards yes for the spellcaster variant. But the temptation to use Iaijutsu Master 8 and just... carry a second katana around for double IF/Sneak Attack damage even on turns where I can't full attack is pretty strong. If I'm okay with dropping a weapon, I could actually combine TWF and Iaijutsu Master 8 to deal 3 attacks as a standard action. It sounds a little stupid and immersion breaking just dropping a weapon during combat, but I can make that third weapon something like a dagger or hand-axe, something I can just let go of after stabbing into someone without it looking or feeling meta like just dropping a sword on the ground would.

Admittedly, the spellcaster variant can do things like persist haste a lot easier, which is just as good. But the martial variant can just get an item of continuous haste and make four IF/Sneak attacks in a single round. This is all assuming I'm going first in initiative of course so that they're flat-footed against every one of those attacks.

I'm unsure of the best ways to sustain the ability to force enemies flat-footed. Acrobatic Backstab seems like a no-brainer. The distract assailant spell could render someone flat-footed for an entire round as a swift action, though it allows a will save. Will save or get full attacked with IF on each attack sounds like a decent tool to have though. Grease/Sleet Storm can force opponents flat footed without a save as long as they can't y'know... fly. But they have standard casting times. The blurstrike weapon special quality can force flat-footed 10 times a day, which is more rounds of combat than I expect to engage in in a typical day, especially if I have other ways to get people flat-footed on some of those rounds. Improved Feint --> Surprising Ripost --> Belt of Battle would allow for full attacks where 3/4 hits trigger IF 3 times per day. Flick of the wrist + "I sleight of hand this dagger into its sheath as a free action." or Unseen Servant shenaniganry can allow one IF per turn per enemy, which is a decent choice because my DM doesn't usually just send one big monster after us.

I added an Iaijutsu Master 5 spellcaster build with this in mind, but I'm unsure about doing such with the martial build.

[Zarvistic]

What about a swift hunter build instead of sneaking? Easier to trigger and you could take like 10 mystic ranger levels. Good synergy altogether with slippers of battledancing. For example scout 5/mystic ranger 10/master 5 (not in that order) is pretty clean and can do couple of things.

[Marin]

What about a swift hunter build instead of sneaking? Easier to trigger and you could take like 10 mystic ranger levels. Good synergy altogether with slippers of battledancing. For example scout 5/mystic ranger 10/master 5 (not in that order) is pretty clean and can do couple of things.

Hmm... It's okay. I think it at least works. But I feel like a couple of things are holding me back from calling it optimized.

It's feat starved like the caster builds.

It gets 4d6 bonus damage from skirmish at max level, much less than sneak attack's 9d6-11d6 depending on the caster build. Rogue's Vest / Bracers of Murder boost that to 11d6-13d6 and rerolling 1s. I don't think skirmish has equivalent items. That translates to 14 bonus damage average on skirmish and 44-52 average damage on sneak attack. Pretty enormous difference, y'know?

It can't engage in any persistent spell shenaniganry like the caster builds to cover up for its lackluster BaB.

It gets 5th level spells max from the ranger spell list, which... is a sub-par spell list. Compared to the spellcaster who gets 6th-7th level spells and can cast from the wizard/druid/cleric spell lists.

I'm not sure I agree that skirmish is easier to activate. Flanking is as simple as chasing after whichever living enemies just attacked my allies last round most of the time or failing that working with another melee fighter to slay enemies. Failing even that, I can grab a cohort or a trained animal and work with them if I really need to. I can even get magic items to let me sneak attack undead. Skirmish... requires me to provoke an AoO on any turn I begin within melee range of an enemy, which given I'm a melee fighter is going to be common. As much as I'm confident magic items will make me pretty beefy, I don't enjoy the idea of giving enemies extra chances for nat 20s, improved grapples, all that jazz.

I do like those slippers of battledancing though. That's a very nice item for making me less MAD and letting me focus on charisma more.

[Anthrowhale]

W.r.t. sneak attack vs. IF, once you are adding your charisma bonus to damage 9 times, sneak attack damage looks marginal. You can reliably make the skill checks by picking up the Item Familiar feat.

W.r.t. spellcaster vs. other approaches, spellcasters can easily win, particularly with (ab)use of persistent spell.

[Marin]

W.r.t. sneak attack vs. IF, once you are adding your charisma bonus to damage 9 times, sneak attack damage looks marginal. You can reliably make the skill checks by picking up the Item Familiar feat.

W.r.t. spellcaster vs. other approaches, spellcasters can easily win, particularly with (ab)use of persistent spell.

Oh that's a really cool feat! With full ranks and a race/template that boosts my cha nice and huge, and a worn continuous guidance of the avatar custom magic item which is frankly criminally cheap, getting up to a +40 is pretty easy even at lower levels. But that could help me reach a +49 even sooner...

And yeah. Though when you add on craven, 64-72 damage is still a nice chunk of extra damage to have, especially if you can't guarantee every attack will trigger IF which is realistic. Say you've got a charisma stat of 30. It's the difference between doing 130-140 damage average and nearly breaking 200. Plus Sneak Attack makes the lower levels more bearable. Earliest it's possible to get Iaijutsu Master 5 is level 11, and that's with a full martial build.

[Gruftzwerg]

Triggering IF and SA reliably is typically the challenging aspect here. Of these, IF is more difficult. Collecting all the skill tricks and maneuvers which cause flat-footed is helpful.


UMD a wand of "Ice Slick" (Cleric 1). Basically "Grease" with a 20-ft. square area covered (double the size of grease). Later you can easily effort a version with Widen Spell metamagic feat on it for a 40-ft. square. Most enemies will fail the balance check (each turn) and are then considered flat-footed.
Cheap and easily to obtain for any character past the starting lvls and thus an option for any UMD character. Or dip a lvl into cleric or something similar to get the spell yourself. Enough imho easy solutions here.

Other option would be to use an Unseen Servant to deploy mundane marbles under your enemies.

[Elves]

The great savior of Iaijutsu Focus is RC page 92 which lets both invisibility and total concealment trigger it -- arguably without a Hide check but certainly with.

[Anthrowhale]

Say you've got a charisma stat of 30.
30 seems low in this case. 18(base)+5(leveling)+5(inherent)+6(enhancement)=34 . An Unseelie Fey Magic-Blooded Star Elf would have a Charisma of 40. There are also many spells which give other bonuses to charisma. For example, if you could get the effects of Devil's Ego, Righteous Aura, and Nixie's Grace, then Charisma 50 is possible.

[Marin]

The great savior of Iaijutsu Focus is RC page 92 which lets both invisibility and total concealment trigger it -- arguably without a Hide check but certainly with.

Oh nice. I thought i read about invisibility triggering flat-footedness somewhere but couldn't find it. That gives Pixie with its greater invisibility as a free action a plus. Though persistent greater invisibility is trivial with the caster builds...


30 seems low in this case. 18(base)+5(leveling)+5(inherent)+6(enhancement)=34 . An Unseelie Fey Magic-Blooded Star Elf would have a Charisma of 40. There are also many spells which give other bonuses to charisma. For example, if you could get the effects of Devil's Ego, Righteous Aura, and Nixie's Grace, then Charisma 50 is possible.

Nixie's Grace and Devil's Ego give enhancement bonuses and therefore do not stack with the magic item bonus. Righteous Aura gives a sacred bonus though, so that one works. A caster build could get a once a day magic item / eternal wand of that and persist it.

Anyway that was just an example. I'm trying to think of how to optimize this with LA+ races. Here's some speculation

Base Races:


Converted Gorse Fairy: LA+4, +10 Cha
Petal: LA+2, +8 Cha
Pixie: LA+4, +6 cha and lots of useful class features such as greater invisibility and spell-likes.
Lesser Primordial Half-Giant: LA+0 +4 Cha


Templates:

Phrenic: LA+2 +4 Cha and lots of other useful stuff.
Half-Celestial: LA+2 +4 Cha and lots of other useful stuff.
Alu-Demon: If you accept that half-celestial being reduced to LA+2 means that its mirror, half-fiend should be likewise LA+2, it's LA+2 for +6 cha and lots of useful stuff.
Saint: LA+2 +4 Cha and lots of other useful stuff.
Half-Fey: LA+2 +4 Cha and lots of other useful stuff.
Half-Nymph: LA+2 +4 Cha and Awesome Beauty punishes enemies for looking at you. Probably some way to use that to your advantage to force IF checks.
Magic-Blooded: LA+0 +2 Cha
Unseelie Fey:[/u] LA+0 ... apparently? Kinda sketchy though +2 Cha


So my speculation is that the most CHA it is possible to obtain within the LA+4 limits and without utilizing conflicting templates (More than one half-race template) would be Primordial Half-Giant base race with the Alu-Demon, Phrenic and Magic-Blooded templates.

18(Base)+16(Templates)+5(Leveling)+5(Inherit)+6(En hancement)+4(Righteous Aura) = 54

Not to mention the not-quite-negligible increases to other stats. You'd have a pretty fat int stat to feed your Iaijutsu AC bonus and skills for example. Utilizing one of the half-fey templates to qualify for unseelie fey instead of using Alu Demon gets similar results, but the other stats take a hit for it.

[Anthrowhale]

Nixie's Grace and Devil's Ego give enhancement bonuses and therefore do not stack with the magic item bonus.

The most recent version of Devil's Ego is in FCII, where it gives a +4 profane bonus. Nixie's grace gives a +8 enhancement bonus, which exceeds the +6 bonus from a cloak of charisma.

Note also the possibilities in combining the Ability Enhancer and Fell Energy feats with the Kiss of the Vampire Spell.

[Marin]

Oooh, cool! I guess persisting those spells is one less magic item I need to buy. Divine Power, Nixie's Grace, Divine Agility, Bite of the WereX--that just leaves intelligence and wisdom without a +6 or greater enhancement buff spell.

[Elves]

That gives Pixie with its greater invisibility as a free action a plus. Though persistent greater invisibility is trivial with the caster builds...
Pixie would be good, but it's LA +4 and the max LA buyoff at 20 is +3.
Total concealment is also better than invisibility for IF because it isn't negated by true seeing.

[Marin]

Total concealment is also better than invisibility for IF because it isn't negated by true seeing.

How would you gain total concealment while next to someone, attacking them, if not through a spell?

[Elves]

There are spells other than invisibility you can use -- for example, fog cloud combined with reach (it can be natural reach if you're using quickrazors, which can be gained with the long arm graft). I'm sure a search will turn stuff up.

The build I linked gains it through darkmoon monk sub levels, but that's more expensive.

[Darg]

Invisible blade 5 or scarlet corsair 3 let you feint as a swift. Surprising Riposte allows you to regularly dish out flatfooted. Combine it with acrobatic strike and every attack you make causes flat-footed.

[Marin]

Invisible blade 5 or scarlet corsair 3 let you feint as a swift. Surprising Riposte allows you to regularly dish out flatfooted. Combine it with acrobatic strike and every attack you make causes flat-footed.

Hmm... Unfortunately the rules are that you're not supposed to multi-class between generic classes and (non-prestige) regular classes. There are a few obnoxious exploits you could do if that weren't the case, ex: Rogue 17, Warrior 2, Expert 1 giving you 18d6 sneak attack damage out of the box because of the way generic classes work. (You're gated from advancing sneak attack based on your character level rather than your class levels)

But if a DM were willing to bend the rules a bit I'd consider Scarlet Corsair 3 a beautiful addition to the martial builds. I'd really love to be able to feint in combat too! =(

Disregard my momentary failure to read. Scarlet Corsair is in fact a prestige class!

Small correction: They both allow feinting as a free action, not a swift action. So even better.

The Improved Feint / Surprising Riposte Feats...

The caster builds are too starved to take those feats, but there are some guidelines for feats on items I might be able to use to get them ... for 20k-30k gold each, I imagine, since the price is based on how many pre-requisites the feat has plus a base 10k

But since it's a move action, it'll preclude full attacks. Which means the only way I'll be able to actually activate IF off of it is if I've got haste up or I use a belt of battle to regain my move action, allowing me to use it with a full attack 3 times a day.

[Darg]

Hmm... Unfortunately the rules are that you're not supposed to multi-class between generic classes and (non-prestige) regular classes. There are a few obnoxious exploits you could do if that weren't the case, ex: Rogue 17, Warrior 2, Expert 1 giving you 18d6 sneak attack damage out of the box because of the way generic classes work. (You're gated from advancing sneak attack based on your character level rather than your class levels)

But if a DM were willing to bend the rules a bit I'd consider Scarlet Corsair 3 a beautiful addition to the martial builds. I'd really love to be able to feint in combat too! =(

Disregard my momentary failure to read. Scarlet Corsair is in fact a prestige class!

Small correction: They both allow feinting as a free action, not a swift action. So even better.

The Improved Feint / Surprising Riposte Feats...

The caster builds are too starved to take those feats, but there are some guidelines for feats on items I might be able to use to get them ... for 20k-30k gold each, I imagine, since the price is based on how many pre-requisites the feat has plus a base 10k

But since it's a move action, it'll preclude full attacks. Which means the only way I'll be able to actually activate IF off of it is if I've got haste up or I use a belt of battle to regain my move action, allowing me to use it with a full attack 3 times a day.

Scarlet corsair gets improved feint for free at 1st level (and the requirements are actually really easy to get other than the +5 BAB considering your multiclass build). Scarlet Corsair is a cool PRC when you combine surprising riposte and imperious command feats. By 9th level you can send anything that isn't immune to fear or mindless into a panic after you hit them and you can fear anything within 30ft of you by level 5. On top of that everything you hit is basically flat-footed. But for your build, only 3 levels is enough. It can't be used every round on the same target unlike Invisible Blade's can, but with how much damage dice you are getting per attack you really don't need it.

A item you might like if you plan on taking at least 5 levels of Iajutsu Master is the Slippers of Battledancing from the DMG2. If you move more than 10 feet in a round you get to use your cha bonus as a bonus to attack and damage just like strength. Another possible feat for combo with this is the Lion Tribe Warrior regional feat. If you charge with a single light weapon, you get to full attack with it. I don't know if iajutsu focus gives the damage to every attack immediately after, but I assume so because of the One Strike, Two Cuts ability of Iajutsu Master. This would allow you to focus on Cha as your main stat once you could afford the slippers.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I'm going to recommend Monk, actually. Invisible Fist Monk 2 gives you a reliable way to force the flat-footed condition, and Dark Moon Disciple Monk 7 almost guarantees both SA and Iaijutsu Focus on every attack. Sidewinder Monk from Dragon Mag. gives you 1d6 SA/3 levels. And if you want even more dice to throw at your enemies, Halfling Monk 1 gives you a Skirmish progression as well. And being a monk qualifies you for using a Sparring Dummy of the Master, turning your 5-steps into 10ft steps and letting you trivially activate Skirmish or just maneuver easily around the battlefield.

Halfling Rogue gives you an extra die of SA for thrown weapons; iaijutsu focus only requires you draw a melee weapon, not make an attack with it, so if you choose a weapon that is both melee and thrown you can take advantage of that extra damage die.

Here (http://bit.ly/2kfZ3rs)'s my favorite stacks of damage build; SA, iaijutsu focus, and Skirmish. You'd want to make some changes to it; if you're going Iaijutsu Master, you probably want to drop either the last two levels of Monk (to keep your Skirmish damage up) or the Skirmish stuff (Flurry of Blows giving you an extra attack is better if you'd only be getting a couple of extra dice from Skirmish).

The other main trick of the build is the Mercurial Strike feat, which is fantastic for iaijutsu focus if you pair it with Robilar's Gambit and/or Karmic Strike. Now any time an enemy attacks you, you get to draw a weapon and attack their flat-footed AC for both SA and iaijutsu focus damage.

[Saintheart]

Blatantly reproducing from another thread, but from OA itself: the Focus weapon quality on a katana (OA) only goes on a katana, but only costs +640gp to the weapon price ... and you don't have to draw the weapon to access its bonus. What bonus? Well, it adds a +4 insight bonus to Iaijutsu Focus checks specifically while you're carrying it, even when the weapon's sheathed. And since the check is for Iaijutsu Focus specifically, it doesn't clash with any insight bonus to attack and damage from Knowledge Devotion or similar. Your build doesn't seem to be contemplating a lot of divine magic, so Divine Insight, which would otherwise overshadow it, isn't available. And as said, you don't even need to be proficient with the weapon by RAW, you literally just carry the weapon around looking awesome and access Iaijutsu Focus with a +4 to the check.

(NB: If you’re using the sorta-update to OA that happened in Dragon 318, they pumped the price of this up to +2,400 gp, but at least still left it a flat gp increase.)

[Darg]

I'm going to recommend Monk, actually. Invisible Fist Monk 2 gives you a reliable way to force the flat-footed condition, and Dark Moon Disciple Monk 7 almost guarantees both SA and Iaijutsu Focus on every attack.

Denying or ignoring dex bonus to AC is not flat-footed. It's the reason why feint can't be used to make someone flat-footed without help from other sources. The effect has to specifically say they are flat-footed because it is a specific condition.

[Rebel7284]

The best way to get sneak attack is, of course, magic.

1. Circle Magic to get your caster level to 40.
2. Consumptive Field to get your caster level to 60.
3. Persist Hunter's Eye to get 20d6 sneak attack.

There are ways to increase that, of course, including more caster level boosts (does Consumptive field and Greater Consumptive Field stack in your world?), (Draconic) Polymorph into Kelvezu (MM2) for +8d6. Class levels such as Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster (the latter can notably can progress divine casting too :smallwink:)

[Elves]

Denying or ignoring dex bonus to AC is not flat-footed. It's the reason why feint can't be used to make someone flat-footed without help from other sources. The effect has to specifically say they are flat-footed because it is a specific condition.
I mentioned RC 92 above but I'll post the quotes:


If you’re successfully hidden with respect to another creature, that creature is flat-footed with respect to you. That creature treats you as if you were invisible (see page 76).
If we're hiding from someone, they're flat-footed against us (and we arguably also get the +2 bonus to hit that an invisible creature does).


Total cover or total concealment usually obviates the need for a Hide check, since nobody can see you anyway.
Here's the controversy. Does obviating the Hide check mean that you are treated as hidden? Or is it just a tip that you usually won't have to Hide in those circumstances?

One indication for the former is that total concealment prevents AoOs against you, which is one result of targets being flat-footed against you. You also gain the same invisibility-like benefits wrt targeting. But those could just as well be "separate but similar" benefits, the overlap being why they left that note.

Under the unfavorable reading, you can still Hide as a free action while attacking:

"You need cover or concealment to attempt a Hide check." -- which you meet.

"You can take a –20 penalty on your Hide check to hide while attacking, running, or charging." -- "while" means it's part of the same action, just as it is while moving.


So if you're spending actions on triggering flat-footed you aren't doing IF right. Even if you aren't shadowpouncing, all your actions are valuable.

[Marin]

Scarlet corsair gets improved feint for free at 1st level (and the requirements are actually really easy to get other than the +5 BAB considering your multiclass build). Scarlet Corsair is a cool PRC when you combine surprising riposte and imperious command feats. By 9th level you can send anything that isn't immune to fear or mindless into a panic after you hit them and you can fear anything within 30ft of you by level 5. On top of that everything you hit is basically flat-footed. But for your build, only 3 levels is enough. It can't be used every round on the same target unlike Invisible Blade's can, but with how much damage dice you are getting per attack you really don't need it.

Oh right, I was just thinking of alternatives for the caster builds where 3 levels in a prestige causes enormous problems (Either -4d6 sneak attack or no incantatrix depending on where I take it, and loss of a couple of spell levels)

This is definitely one of those classes where it might be better than the bonus feats from straight warrior, so I think I might revise the martial variants to use it.


I don't know if iajutsu focus gives the damage to every attack immediately after, but I assume so because of the One Strike, Two Cuts ability of Iajutsu Master. This would allow you to focus on Cha as your main stat once you could afford the slippers.

The only problem with using Iaijutsu focus during a full attack is that barring the afformentioned ability you can only use iaijutsu focus immediately after drawing a weapon. So you have to do something weird like draw three daggers sequentially and then drop them after stabbing opponent's back before drawing your main weapon to really make it work. Which is fine! Just--it requires a few extra hoops to be jumped through. The slippers are amazing though.


I'm going to recommend Monk, actually. Invisible Fist Monk 2 gives you a reliable way to force the flat-footed condition, and Dark Moon Disciple Monk 7 almost guarantees both SA and Iaijutsu Focus on every attack. Sidewinder Monk from Dragon Mag. gives you 1d6 SA/3 levels. And if you want even more dice to throw at your enemies, Halfling Monk 1 gives you a Skirmish progression as well. And being a monk qualifies you for using a Sparring Dummy of the Master, turning your 5-steps into 10ft steps and letting you trivially activate Skirmish or just maneuver easily around the battlefield.

Halfling Rogue gives you an extra die of SA for thrown weapons; iaijutsu focus only requires you draw a melee weapon, not make an attack with it, so if you choose a weapon that is both melee and thrown you can take advantage of that extra damage die.

Here (http://bit.ly/2kfZ3rs)'s my favorite stacks of damage build; SA, iaijutsu focus, and Skirmish. You'd want to make some changes to it; if you're going Iaijutsu Master, you probably want to drop either the last two levels of Monk (to keep your Skirmish damage up) or the Skirmish stuff (Flurry of Blows giving you an extra attack is better if you'd only be getting a couple of extra dice from Skirmish).

The other main trick of the build is the Mercurial Strike feat, which is fantastic for iaijutsu focus if you pair it with Robilar's Gambit and/or Karmic Strike. Now any time an enemy attacks you, you get to draw a weapon and attack their flat-footed AC for both SA and iaijutsu focus damage.

That is a REALLY nice build. Tempting, even. The only trouble is that Iaijutsu Master takes 5 levels before it gets really good. (Adds your charisma modifier to every d6 you get from Iaijutsu Focus), and if we remove the skirmish damage, it starts to lag behind the martial builds who have full BAB and tons of bonus feats to throw around. So I have no idea how we'd fit Iaijutsu Master into this without gimping it in the process.

I'd be tempted just to play it as is just because it's such a neat kit.


Blatantly reproducing from another thread, but from OA itself: the Focus weapon quality on a katana (OA) only goes on a katana, but only costs +640gp to the weapon price ... and you don't have to draw the weapon to access its bonus. What bonus? Well, it adds a +4 insight bonus to Iaijutsu Focus checks specifically while you're carrying it, even when the weapon's sheathed. And since the check is for Iaijutsu Focus specifically, it doesn't clash with any insight bonus to attack and damage from Knowledge Devotion or similar. Your build doesn't seem to be contemplating a lot of divine magic, so Divine Insight, which would otherwise overshadow it, isn't available.

Oooh~! Takin' notes here. Though, the Generic Spellcaster builds can cast from the Wizard, Druid AND Cleric spell lists, which means Divine Focus actually is available to them. And even if it weren't (Ex: the martial builds), a second level spell is cheap enough I could get it added to a custom magic item pretty easily.


The best way to get sneak attack is, of course, magic.

1. Circle Magic to get your caster level to 40.
2. Consumptive Field to get your caster level to 60.
3. Persist Hunter's Eye to get 20d6 sneak attack.

There are ways to increase that, of course, including more caster level boosts (does Consumptive field and Greater Consumptive Field stack in your world?), (Draconic) Polymorph into Kelvezu (MM2) for +8d6. Class levels such as Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster (the latter can notably can progress divine casting too :smallwink:)

Hunter's Eye is certainly a neat spell to consider! As is consumptive field. Though I have no idea what kind of build would have access to both of those and circle magic. You'd really think circle magic wouldn't be restricted behind racial pre-requisites...

[Saintheart]

The only problem with using Iaijutsu focus during a full attack is that barring the afformentioned ability you can only use iaijutsu focus immediately after drawing a weapon. So you have to do something weird like draw three daggers sequentially and then drop them after stabbing opponent's back before drawing your main weapon to really make it work. Which is fine! Just--it requires a few extra hoops to be jumped through. The slippers are amazing though.

One of the traditional cheesy RAW methods of doing this with one weapon is to use a Cursed Longsword and find some way to neutralise the -2 to attack rolls and damage:


-2 Sword, Cursed
This longsword performs well against targets in practice, but when used against an opponent in combat, it causes its wielder to take a -2 penalty on attack rolls.

All damage dealt is also reduced by 2 points, but never below a minimum of 1 point of damage on any successful hit. After one week in a character’s possession, the sword always forces that character to employ it rather than another weapon. The sword’s owner automatically draws it and fights with it even when she meant to draw or ready some other weapon. The sword can be gotten rid of only by means of limited wish, wish, or miracle.

Strong evocation; CL 15th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, bestow curse, and limited wish or miracle; Price 1,500 gp.

Use Iaijutsu Focus with it on the draw, drop the weapon as a free action, and attempt to Quick Draw a dagger at your belt for the second attack. The Cursed Sword automatically is drawn and used for the second attack.

Cheesy, yes, but a little less stupid-looking than just drawing and throwing multiple katanas around.

[Elves]

One of the traditional cheesy RAW methods of doing this with one weapon is to use a Cursed Longsword and find some way to neutralise the -2 to attack rolls and damage:



Use Iaijutsu Focus with it on the draw, drop the weapon as a free action, and attempt to Quick Draw a dagger at your belt for the second attack. The Cursed Sword automatically is drawn and used for the second attack.

Cheesy, yes, but a little less stupid-looking than just drawing and throwing multiple katanas around.

I read that trick too in an old thread. It's great. I think it was Troacctid who suggested it.

You can enhance the sword magically by using transmute metal to wood on it, then ironwood. This gives the now ironwood sword an enhancement bonus, letting it be enchanted further. Which can include morphing (and possibly sizing) if you don't want to use a longsword.

Should do an iaijutsu shadowpouncer version that uses this instead of quickrazors. You can PA with this which is nice, and would make PA>Divine Might a more rewarding investment.

[Zarvistic]

For another angle, what about rogue 1, rest cleric with dynamic priest and sacred outlaw. Would need to get iaijutsu from a feat but you get good spell and sneak progression and cleric domains or devotion feats.

[Rebel7284]

Hunter's Eye is certainly a neat spell to consider! As is consumptive field. Though I have no idea what kind of build would have access to both of those and circle magic. You'd really think circle magic wouldn't be restricted behind racial pre-requisites...

Well you could always play a templated human or take the Human Heritage feat.

Shadow Human, specifically, would give you Shadow Blend for +2LA without having to take 7 levels of Monk.

Also, I haven't looked at Ghostwalk in a while, but there seems to be a feat version of Circle Magic there. Don't know if it has any extra limitations over the usual Red Wizard/Halruaan Elder/Hathran version.
Regardless of the path you chose, Generic spellcaster classes certainly helps with the whole Hunter's Eye being a Ranger spell thing!

[Elves]

Shadow Human, specifically, would give you Shadow Blend for +2LA without having to take 7 levels of Monk.
Didn't know that ability was from a template. Losing 4 cha from a different +2 template sucks but the extra class levels are no doubt worth it.