What happens if a mortal dies in hell?

[EggKookoo]

Hi all.

Just trying to suss out how it's supposed to work in the existing mythology. Let's say a mortal creature travels to one of the Nine Hells via, say, gate, and then dies there. Does the creature's soul get trapped and become a lemure? Does it still get to its proper afterlife plane? Can the fiends prevent that from happening? I mean I know the DM can just say they do, but I'm curious if there's precedent.

[Unoriginal]

Hi all.

Just trying to suss out how it's supposed to work in the existing mythology. Let's say a mortal creature travels to one of the Nine Hells via, say, gate, and then dies there. Does the creature's soul get trapped and become a lemure? Does it still get to its proper afterlife plane? Can the fiends prevent that from happening? I mean I know the DM can just say they do, but I'm curious if there's precedent.

Normally, the soul gets to go to its proper afterlife without problem, but if:

- You have a pact for your soul with a Devil

- You've been sacrificed to a Devil

- You were killed by one of the magic weapons that specifically has the power to send the killed person to the Styx to turn into a lemure

then you're staying in Hell.

[EggKookoo]

Ok, cool. I can swing the third condition (probably) and the first might also apply if I frame things right. I'm talking about a way to dispose of the BBEG, and I want to make sure I set this up as a plausible option for the players.

Thanks!

[Arkhios]

They warp into a hellish creature and attack!

Okay, not really, but it would be cool! :smallbiggrin:

[EggKookoo]

They warp into a hellish creature and attack!

Okay, not really, but it would be cool! :smallbiggrin:

Well, actually, yeah.

The BBEG in question is an ancient dragon, far beyond what the party (APL 6) is prepared to defeat. I have a scenario set up where, if the players catch on and can leverage it, the dragon can be shoved into Avernus. This particular dragon has bad history with Zariel, so it's not hard to imagine she'd like to keep him there for a while. This might be the conclusion of the current campaign, and I can just end thing there and move on to new games. But I also want to leave an opening in case the players want to keep playing with these PCs, or maybe come back to them later, so the dragon might re-emerge as a kind of dragon-fiend thing.

[Anymage]

Presumably also a sufficiently powerful diabolical creature could just grab the soul. I don't think there's printed precedent, but it's a reasonable extrapolation from "sacrificed in a ritual in the archdevil's name". The ritual brings the archdevil's power close enough to snag a soul that would otherwise go elsewhere, he can probably do the same if you draw his attention while you're in his domain.

However, given what the third letter in BBEG means, can I ask what flavor of evil he is? He'll be bound for some lower plane or other if he dies anyways. If this is some way to take his soul out of the picture so that he can't be resurrected by allies, I'm sure that there are some soul eating/trapping monsters in baator who can help quite clearly express that this guy is gone for good.

[EggKookoo]

However, given what the third letter in BBEG means, can I ask what flavor of evil he is? He'll be bound for some lower plane or other if he dies anyways. If this is some way to take his soul out of the picture so that he can't be resurrected by allies, I'm sure that there are some soul eating/trapping monsters in baator who can help quite clearly express that this guy is gone for good.

He's a silver dragon, but I'm running an Eberron-like campaign where dragon alignments are more fluid than in somewhere like FR. He believes non-dragons aren't "real" people (an attitude common among dragons). He's been using the PCs for his own ends. He'll be deceptive necessary but will be honest if there's no reason not to be. He's not cruel and outwardly treats the PCs in a friendly manner, but it's becoming clear to them that once he's done with them he won't hesitate to eliminate them, especially if he feels they may become a future threat. Think of him something like Gus from Breaking Bad but with a Ricardo Montalban flair.

[Millstone85]

He's a silver dragon, but I'm running an Eberron-like campaign where dragon alignments are more fluid than in somewhere like FR. He believes non-dragons aren't "real" people (an attitude common among dragons).What is his relationship with Tiamat? His soul could stay in Baator because his goddess' realm is on that plane.

[EggKookoo]

What is his relationship with Tiamat? His soul could stay in Baator because his goddess' realm is on that plane.

Hm, I hadn't thought about that. She's a prisoner in Avernus, right?

[Millstone85]

Hm, I hadn't thought about that. She's a prisoner in Avernus, right?Correct. She rules a region of Avernus, but is bound to it by a mysterious pact with Asmodeus.

Also, in this edition, the abishai are dragonborn-looking devils who serve Tiamat, each one "once a mortal who somehow won Tiamat's favor before death" (MToF p160). I am not clear if this transformation would happen to a true dragon.

[JonBeowulf]

Think of him something like Gus from Breaking Bad but with a Ricardo Montalban flair.

I freakin' love this imagery! I gotta put this on one of the bad guys in a future campaign.

[EggKookoo]

I freakin' love this imagery! I gotta put this on one of the bad guys in a future campaign.

Ricardo Montalban is my go-to for any mastermind NPC. He's a gift that keeps giving.