ciopo
2021-06-02, 06:21 AM
Relevant Quotes :
Q353
If a (ex) feature says "gains the X feat"
353.a : is the feat lost if the feature is lost?
353.b : do you still need to meet the prerequisites to use the feat?
A 353a No.
A 353b If not, the class will have some language to the effect of "the character need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats."
In the absence of such language, you do need to meet prereqs. Oftentimes, you will get reminder that you must meet the prereqs for these kinds of bonus feats.
A 353a contention
A bonus feat linked to a class feature is usually lost if the class feature is lost (for example through retraining, or by losing the relevant class level).
A detail that need to be cleared up is whether the feat is a "virtual feat" and not an actual bonus feat. For examples, Ranger are treated as having the feats associated with their combat style (Rapid Shot or Two-Weapon Fighting) for all that matter (bonuses and prerequisites) when wearing light armor, but don't really have the feat -- hence it cannot be retrained individually (the whole feature can be) nor Dark Chaos Shuffled.
In the case of retraining, you would certainly be right since it's as though the character never had the feat-granting class feature in the first place. The same would be true for permanently losing a level to energy drain or being raised, so how it is lost does matter.
If there's a specific class that's being asked about, it would be helpful to know and since the precise answer may indeed vary. I assume this is for an iron chef or similar contest so this information will be withheld and tried to answer the general question as accurately as possible.
That is accurate re:ranger and similar classes which actually grant feats, such as monks, also exist.
It is indeed tangentially related to the next round of Iron Chief, by necessity I've been giving a read to the whole of Incarnum, as I was not particularly familiar with it.
There are some soulmeld that when bound "you get the benefit of X" feat, these are noncontroversial because you don't gain the feat, only the benefit.
Manticore belt on page 77 however, when bound to waist, says : "You can fly with clumsy maneuverability at a speed of 10 feet per point of essentia invested in your manticore belt. You gain
the Flyby Attack feat (see page 303 of the Monster Manual)."
So.... I gain the flyby attack feat, period? if a day later I chose to shape/bind other things, I'll still have that feat? what we do with it is immaterial, okay it's a way to DCS get infinite feats I guess, but it's a case where we lose a (something) whose effect is "you gain X feat", and it doesn't have the heroics wording about temporarily.
Probably an oversight, they should have said "you giant he benefit of flyby attack", and RAI clearly you lose it when the Manticore belt is not binded, but here we are.
RAW?
Q353
If a (ex) feature says "gains the X feat"
353.a : is the feat lost if the feature is lost?
353.b : do you still need to meet the prerequisites to use the feat?
A 353a No.
A 353b If not, the class will have some language to the effect of "the character need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats."
In the absence of such language, you do need to meet prereqs. Oftentimes, you will get reminder that you must meet the prereqs for these kinds of bonus feats.
A 353a contention
A bonus feat linked to a class feature is usually lost if the class feature is lost (for example through retraining, or by losing the relevant class level).
A detail that need to be cleared up is whether the feat is a "virtual feat" and not an actual bonus feat. For examples, Ranger are treated as having the feats associated with their combat style (Rapid Shot or Two-Weapon Fighting) for all that matter (bonuses and prerequisites) when wearing light armor, but don't really have the feat -- hence it cannot be retrained individually (the whole feature can be) nor Dark Chaos Shuffled.
In the case of retraining, you would certainly be right since it's as though the character never had the feat-granting class feature in the first place. The same would be true for permanently losing a level to energy drain or being raised, so how it is lost does matter.
If there's a specific class that's being asked about, it would be helpful to know and since the precise answer may indeed vary. I assume this is for an iron chef or similar contest so this information will be withheld and tried to answer the general question as accurately as possible.
That is accurate re:ranger and similar classes which actually grant feats, such as monks, also exist.
It is indeed tangentially related to the next round of Iron Chief, by necessity I've been giving a read to the whole of Incarnum, as I was not particularly familiar with it.
There are some soulmeld that when bound "you get the benefit of X" feat, these are noncontroversial because you don't gain the feat, only the benefit.
Manticore belt on page 77 however, when bound to waist, says : "You can fly with clumsy maneuverability at a speed of 10 feet per point of essentia invested in your manticore belt. You gain
the Flyby Attack feat (see page 303 of the Monster Manual)."
So.... I gain the flyby attack feat, period? if a day later I chose to shape/bind other things, I'll still have that feat? what we do with it is immaterial, okay it's a way to DCS get infinite feats I guess, but it's a case where we lose a (something) whose effect is "you gain X feat", and it doesn't have the heroics wording about temporarily.
Probably an oversight, they should have said "you giant he benefit of flyby attack", and RAI clearly you lose it when the Manticore belt is not binded, but here we are.
RAW?