Pirate Character

[adb82]

Hello everyone,
im about to play a character in a campaign heavly based on piracy (control of a pirate island, piracy attacks to merchant ships, explansion of their area of influence) so i would like to know how you would build a melee pirate, possibly using also some spells, considering that in the party there are a warlock playing mostly contrlol with eldricht blast and invocations, an enchatment control wizard and a druid (based on the ocean theme). In the beginning i wanted to play the spiderweb build posted in the "an eclettic collection of fun and effective builds", that is a shadow monk with 4 lv of battlemster, but after see my party composition (which i knew just yesterday night) i suppose that spamming of darkness will affect too much their spells, as they all are full casters. Thats the reason because i decided to change my character starting idea, but i still didnt a find a build that, also machanically, give me the idea of a real pirate in such a world. Probably i should choose some martial class but i would like to play a character with some magic also (even few, but useful to the build), possibly that can play as tank or half tank, any suggestion will be appreciate also because i have really few time before our first session. :P

[stoutstien]

Battlesmith would work well and being able to fix your ship(s) is a nice boon.

[adb82]

Battlesmith would work well and being able to fix your ship(s) is a nice boon.

I forget to tell, unluckly the one artificer subclass we can choose is alchemist.

[stoutstien]

I forget to tell, unluckly the one artificer subclass we can choose is alchemist.

Blah. Welp then how bout a cav or RK fighter/ forge cleric? Nice mix of damage, Tanky, spells, and flexibly.

[NulliusinVerba]

Cavaliers are fun. I might also suggest a Swashbuckler 3 / Paladin X (maybe an Oathbreaker for maximum flavor, or Oath of the Open Sea if your DM is allowing Matt Mercer homebrew material?). That way you can get spells and combo off Divine Smite with Sneak Attack for lots of damage while being semi-tanky.

[Unoriginal]

Conquest Paladin or Ancestor Barbarian can work well for a pirate.

[Mud Puppy]

I think the Swashbuckler Rogue is literally designed for this type of campaign.

[nickl_2000]

Swashbuckler Rogue
Thief Rogue with climb is pretty nice
Swords Bard is both fitting and appropriate
Arcane Trickster would be pretty nice
Eldritch Knight is the same
Swarmkeeper Ranger with Tasha's optional ranger additions.

[adb82]

Blah. Welp then how bout a cav or RK fighter/ forge cleric? Nice mix of damage, Tanky, spells, and flexibly.

Cav do you mean the cavalier? I cant imagine a pirate mounting something on a ship but im sure you mean something different that im missing at the moment probably.

RK/FC it work, but i should build it on 10 lv as the campaign gonna end at lv 10, no more than 11 anyway, and i dont feel it like a pirate honestly, maybe a tempest cleric or some multiclass with it would be more thematic, as some multiclass with the monk and figher (but that dont spam darkness mostly all time as the SM/BM, even the idea of the blinding fighting style was totally amazing me).

But well, i dont want give a too strict direction to the thread, i just would like to know, thematically, which class or classes you would build together for create a typical pirate (at this point with or without magic is not important anymore, as long as thematically match with the idea of the pirate and it is enough effective, better with some magic but not a priority).

[nickl_2000]

Cav do you mean the cavalier? I cant imagine a pirate mounting something on a ship but im sure you mean something different that im missing at the moment probably.

RK/FC it work, but i should build it on 10 lv as the campaign gonna end at lv 10, no more than 11 anyway, and i dont feel it like a pirate honestly, maybe a tempest cleric or some multiclass with it would be more thematic, as some multiclass with the monk and figher (but that dont spam darkness mostly all time as the SM/BM, even the idea of the blinding fighting style was totally amazing me).

But well, i dont want give a too strict direction to the thread, i just would like to know, thematically, which class or classes you would build together for create a typical pirate (at this point with or without magic is not important anymore, as long as thematically match with the idea of the pirate and it is enough effective, better with some magic but not a priority).

Multiclass is an option?

Swords Bard/Swashbuckler Rogue not only is it the most piratey thing out there, but it's actually a pretty decent multiclass.

[adb82]

Cavaliers are fun. I might also suggest a Swashbuckler 3 / Paladin X (maybe an Oathbreaker for maximum flavor, or Oath of the Open Sea if your DM is allowing Matt Mercer homebrew material?). That way you can get spells and combo off Divine Smite with Sneak Attack for lots of damage while being semi-tanky.

What im missing about cavaliers? You are not the first naming the cavalier for a good pirate, but i dont get how.


Conquest Paladin or Ancestor Barbarian can work well for a pirate.

Right.


I think the Swashbuckler Rogue is literally designed for this type of campaign.

Yep, but with a party of full caster i need something that can tank, at least a bit.


Swashbuckler Rogue
Thief Rogue with climb is pretty nice
Swords Bard is both fitting and appropriate
Arcane Trickster would be pretty nice
Eldritch Knight is the same
Swarmkeeper Ranger with Tasha's optional ranger additions.

As above, but eldricht knight can be also a good pick...

[adb82]

Multiclass is an option?

Swords Bard/Swashbuckler Rogue not only is it the most piratey thing out there, but it's actually a pretty decent multiclass.

Yep, i love it indeed, but with a wizard, a druid and a warlock dedited to control via eldricht blast and invocations i think the party desperatly need someone that can tank, at least in a decent way.

[stoutstien]

Cavalier doesn't have many ties to actually being mounted but the other early level features are great tanking tools and the limited space with ship decks means moving away is doubly difficult. Great user of versatile weapons as well for climbing and grapple shoving. After level 7 jumping over cleric gives you utility and back up healing.

[da newt]

IME a party with just one melee tank is a party that has to invest in many 300gp diamonds to revivify that one punching bag who gets gang stomped most every combat. In order to tank effectively, you need a couple tanks to spread it around, and your Druid better realize they are the only healer for this group.

Races that can swim / don't need to breath are handy.

[nickl_2000]

Yep, i love it indeed, but with a wizard, a druid and a warlock dedited to control via eldricht blast and invocations i think the party desperatly need someone that can tank, at least in a decent way.

Alright, then let me throw another option out there. It's worth considering at least. Beastmaster Ranger who wears medium armor, focuses on Wisdom. Uses a shield and his main weapon is a club that he casts Shillelagh and uses the Tasha's Beasts.

Beast of Land is a Monkey
Beast of Sea works perfectly as is for a Pirate
Beast of Air is a Parrot.

The beast can help you tank and keep people off the more squishie members of the party. You either do VHuman with Magic Initiate Druid at level 1 for Shillelagh, Thorn Whip, and Jump (for ship to ship combat and cool ship acrobatics), or the Druid Cantrip Fighting style at level 2 for Shillelagh and Thorn Whip (alternately you can trade Thorn Whip out for Shape Water, Gust, or Guidance).


Since you have a beast companion you don't need to worry about Hunter's Mark, so you can take other things that seem fun. Also, since you have Tasha's Ranger you get Climb and Swim speeds.

[LudicSavant]

i still didnt a find a build that, also machanically, give me the idea of a real pirate in such a world.

Any PC class can fill a valuable role on a pirate ship, whether it's an Eagle-eyed Barbarian in the crow's nest seeing for miles and chatting with the gulls for information on their latest port of call, a Stars Druid who navigates by the stars and predicts the weather each day with Druidcraft, an Artificer for the ship's carpenter and smith (when you're away at sea, far from any town, it's important to have someone who can produce tools you realize you need, or repair things), a bellowing Conquest Paladin first mate who both inspires and strikes fear into the crew, etc etc.

Really, pick a class you like, and then think about what abilities from that class could be useful at sea.


Races that can swim / don't need to breath are handy.

I'm of the opinion that not needing to breathe is likely to be almost entirely irrelevant in a party of full casters (as the OP is) because Water Breathing is a 24-hour duration Ritual that affects the whole party. Oh sure, maybe it could be dispelled, but that just means you re-cast it after the fight (5e characters can go quite a while without air).

Still, it's cool to have a Warforged that's like a walking diving suit.

One thing I have found relevant in my aquatic campaigns is:

When making a melee weapon attack, a creature that doesn't have a swimming speed (either natural or granted by magic) has disadvantage on the attack roll unless the weapon is a dagger, javelin, shortsword, spear, or trident.

A ranged weapon attack automatically misses a target beyond the weapon's normal range. Even against a target within normal range, the attack roll has disadvantage unless the weapon is a crossbow, a net, or a weapon that is thrown like a javelin (including a spear, trident, or dart).

Swim speeds are a bit harder to come by than Water Breathing, but it's notable that a Ring of Swimming (granting a 40 ft swim speed) is Uncommon and doesn't require Attunement.

[RogueJK]

I got a lot of mileage out of an Arcane Trickster Rogue/Bladesinger Wizard multiclass in my last pirate campaign. Very effective in that environment, and good combo of spells and DEX-based melee.

However, based on your party composition, you'll need something a bit more tanky, since it seems like the rest of the party is all squishy casters. Perhaps an Ancestral Guardian Barbarian? Those can work well as the sole melee tank in a party of squishier characters, since you can not only deal solid melee damage but also protect your allies from some attacks and damage in the process.

[adb82]

IME a party with just one melee tank is a party that has to invest in many 300gp diamonds to revivify that one punching bag who gets gang stomped most every combat. In order to tank effectively, you need a couple tanks to spread it around, and your Druid better realize they are the only healer for this group.

Races that can swim / don't need to breath are handy.

Yea, i know its hard with one tank, but i wont tell others how to play, im trying to optimize the group as well as possible without say them "we dont need 3 full caster in such a capaign, better you choose something else", races are very limited, mostly are homebrew and from the manuals we only have wood elf, Vhuman, tiefling, dwarfs and nothing else.


Cavalier doesn't have many ties to actually being mounted but the other early level features are great tanking tools and the limited space with ship decks means moving away is doubly difficult. Great user of versatile weapons as well for climbing and grapple shoving. After level 7 jumping over cleric gives you utility and back up healing.

Now i got the sense of it, thanks.


Alright, then let me throw another option out there. It's worth considering at least. Beastmaster Ranger who wears medium armor, focuses on Wisdom. Uses a shield and his main weapon is a club that he casts Shillelagh and uses the Tasha's Beasts.

Beast of Land is a Monkey
Beast of Sea works perfectly as is for a Pirate
Beast of Air is a Parrot.

The beast can help you tank and keep people off the more squishie members of the party. You either do VHuman with Magic Initiate Druid at level 1 for Shillelagh, Thorn Whip, and Jump (for ship to ship combat and cool ship acrobatics), or the Druid Cantrip Fighting style at level 2 for Shillelagh and Thorn Whip (alternately you can trade Thorn Whip out for Shape Water, Gust, or Guidance).


Since you have a beast companion you don't need to worry about Hunter's Mark, so you can take other things that seem fun. Also, since you have Tasha's Ranger you get Climb and Swim speeds.

Beastmaster was something i was considering too, this is an interesting build.

Maybe an hexblade can work too, or a warlock with the fothomless patron, what do you think about it?

[chiefwaha]

With your group, maybe a dex paladin build of some sort? Still a decent tank, with Dex to let you missile effectively if you're doing ship to ship and a touch of healing to help the druid out.

[RogueJK]

Maybe an hexblade can work too, or a warlock with the fothomless patron, what do you think about it?

Fathomless Tomelock could be a nautically flavorful and interesting gishy tank.

One option would be sort of a "Fathomless Generalist", similar to some of the capabilities of the Celestial Generalist here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds Start VHuman with the Moderately Armored feat with +1 DEX, picking up Shillelagh as one of your Tome cantrips at 3, then Warcaster at 4, and +2 CHA at 8th. Start with 16 DEX/CON/CHA, and use a Rapier until Shillelagh comes online. Wear Medium Armor and Shield. Attack routine would be Booming Shillelagh + BA tentacle, plus BB OAs if an enemy tries to get past you.

Or, Fighter 1/Fathomless Tomelock X is another good option. Saves you the Moderately Armored feat and lets you pick up Crusher at 1st instead, with CON proficiency for Concentration and the Defense fighting style, at the cost of slightly delaying your Warlock progression. (That's less costly than usual since you're relying on BB and Tentacle, which scale with character level/proficiency.) Go Heavy Armor and Shield with this route, starting 16 STR, 16 CON, 16 CHA, and using a Warhammer until Shillelagh comes online. Crusher's shove combines well with Booming Blade to increase the chances of triggering BB's extra rider. Then Warcaster at Warlock 4 and +2 CHA at 8th. (Or start with Warcaster at 1st and pick up Crusher at 4, if you don't want to have to do the weapon/spellcasting juggle for the first 4 levels.)

[LudicSavant]

i suppose that spamming of darkness will affect too much their spells, as they all are full casters.

By the way, did you ask your teammates how they felt about you casting Darkness, or did you just assume? You mentioned a Warlock, Wizard, and Druid, and all three of those classes can potentially synergize with it.

Warlocks generally will love you to pieces if you cast Darkness for them -- the instant anyone says they use Darkness they're likely to take Devil's Sight. For an Enchanter Wizard and Druid, it depends on their spells, tactics, and build. I know my Wizards and Druids usually love taking advantage of things like Fog Cloud, Darkness, Sleet Storm, etc. There's an awful lot of great spells that just don't care about seeing the target, as well as ways for characters of any class to synergize with vision blockers. Heck, as of Tasha's, you can even just give any spellcaster Devil's Sight if you want to (though there are other ways to get synergies). And even if you do want to occasionally cast a 'needs sight' spell, you can use upcast Continual Flame objects or object interactions to 'flicker' it, basically making it way easier for allies to bypass than Fog Cloud or Sleet Storm.

If they say they don't want Darkness then that's fine (tons of other great possibilities to play), but if you're happy with your character you should actually ask them instead of just assuming Darkness is categorically bad for full casters (because it often isn't (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24894989&postcount=877), especially if the player knows what they're doing. I cast vision blockers as Warlocks, Wizards, and Druids all the time).

[adb82]

Fathomless Tomelock could be a nautically flavorful and interesting gishy tank. Start VHuman with the Moderately Armored feat with +1 DEX, picking up Shillelagh as one of your Tome cantrips at 3, then Warcaster at 4, and +2 CHA at 8th. Start with 16 DEX/CON/CHA, and use a Rapier until Shillelagh comes online.

Wear Medium Armor and Shield. Attack routine would be Booming Shillelagh + BA tentacle, plus BB OAs if an enemy tries to get past you. Sort of a "Fathomless Generalist", similar to the Celestial Generalist here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds

Fighter 1/Fathomless Tomelock X is another option, to save the Moderately Armored feat and pick up Warcaster at 1st, get CON proficiency for Concentration, and pick up the Defense fighting style, at the cost of delaying your Warlock progression. Less costly than usual since you're relying on BB and Tentacle, which scale with character level/proficiency. You could go Heavy Armor with this route, starting 15 STR, 16 CON, 16 CHA, and using a Longsword until Shillelagh comes online.

This seem work really well, and yea after read the celestial generalist i got the idea to use the fothomless in a similar way, it will heal much less of course, but it can do other kind of things. The first lv of fighter seem a good idea for get warcaster earlier, ill think about which route follow.


By the way, did you ask your teammates how they felt about you casting Darkness, or did you just assume? You mentioned a Warlock, Wizard, and Druid, and all three of those classes can potentially synergize with it.

Warlocks generally will love you to pieces if you cast Darkness for them -- the instant anyone says they use Darkness they're likely to take Devil's Sight. For an Enchanter Wizard and Druid, it depends on their spells, tactics, and build. I know my Wizards and Druids usually love taking advantage of things like Fog Cloud, Darkness, Sleet Storm, etc. There's an awful lot of great spells that just don't care about seeing the target, as well as ways for characters of any class to synergize with vision blockers. Heck, as of Tasha's, you can even just give any spellcaster Devil's Sight if you want to (though there are other ways to get synergies). And even if you do want to occasionally cast a 'needs sight' spell, you can use upcast Continual Flame objects or object interactions to 'flicker' it, basically making it way easier for allies to bypass than Fog Cloud or Sleet Storm.

If they say they don't want Darkness then that's fine, but if you're happy with your character you should actually ask them instead of just assuming Darkness is categorically bad for full casters (because it often isn't (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24894989&postcount=877), especially if the player knows what they're doing. I cast vision blockers as Warlocks, Wizards, and Druids all the time).

You are right, i started from the assumption that i would like to avoid other characters having objects interactions for an on/off of darkness at will, and that this party have no tank (even probably the druid will make a more tanky cleric as he just said me), but i didnt ask to them what they think about and probably as this is the character i want to play for this campaign i should ask them if its really a problem for them or not.

[LudicSavant]

You are right, i started from the assumption that i would like to avoid other characters having objects interactions for an on/off of darkness at will, and that this party have no tank (even probably the druid will make a more tanky cleric as he just said me), but i didnt ask to them what they think about and probably as this is the character i want to play for this campaign i should ask them if its really a problem for them or not.

https://forums.giantitp.com/images/sand/icons/icon_thumbsup.png


Probably i should choose some martial class but i would like to play a character with some magic also (even few, but useful to the build), possibly that can play as tank or half tank, any suggestion will be appreciate also because i have really few time before our first session. :P

Here's some ideas! Specifically for "a martial class pirate with a bit of magic that can tank."

- A Totem Barbarian with the level 6 Eagle feature that lets them see for a mile. Hangs out in the crow's nest. Uses their at-will "Speak with Animals" to talk to the gulls to gather info on ports of call and such.
- A bellowing rapier-wielding Conquest Dexadin who inspires and terrifies their crew, and burns fuses in their hair and beard to terrify their foes (a la Blackbeard).
- An Ancestral Guardian that was the housewife of a great Not-Viking hero who died of a mysterious magical plague rather than falling battle, and thus didn't get to Not-Valhalla. So she made a Valkyrie's pact with the ancestors to earn a heroic death in his stead, taking up his axe and shield and heading to the high seas.
- An Arcane Trickster that takes a 1-level Fighter dip for shield proficiency and Superior Technique (Brace), and uses Warcaster/Booming Blade for devastating off-turn sneak attacks if anyone tries to reach their 3 backline full-casters (or Brace if people try to close on them, or Uncanny Dodge if someone hits them). Has a parrot familiar that helps in combat named "Folly."

[Sigreid]

You know what would be terrifying on a ship? I mean terrifying to the point people might just surrender when they know it's you? A dervish barbarian with the fire aura.

[Lupine]

Sounds like, while this party will have a [I]lot[\I] of control, but not a lot of single target damage. By the sounds of it, your wizard and warlock have both built for control, and druid is already a very controll-y class.
What you need is a good frontliner, or something with decent single target damage. Personally, I think the Paladin would combine those well. They have heavy armor and d10 hd, making them able to tank for your party. You could do a dexadin as well, which might work better. (Light armor on the sea would be good.) also sentinel, because goodness that party is squishy.

Your other best option is rogue. Thematically, the swashbuckler is pretty good. The other good thing about swashbucklers is that they can sneak attack at range, meaning that they can maintain their damage, even when control spells keep you from getting to melee. Since you’ll probably have ships, sharpshooter with longbow will do you very well.

[RogueJK]

This seem work really well, and yea after read the celestial generalist i got the idea to use the fothomless in a similar way, it will heal much less of course, but it can do other kind of things. The first lv of fighter seem a good idea for get warcaster earlier, ill think about which route follow.


Thinking about this further, it may actually be worth considering going something like Fighter 1 -> Fathomless Warlock 3 (or 4 for ASI) -> Fighter X, if you're okay with skipping out on higher level Warlock spellcasting in exchange for some useful Fighter subclass abilities and Action Surge. You'd have some lower level Warlock spells and invocations to play around with, but the core stuff you'd want from Fathomless (swim/water breathing, CHA-based weapon and BA tentacle attacks, Booming Blade, etc.) all comes online by Warlock 3, and tentacle uses scale with Proficiency.

For Fighter Subclass, there are a few solid options:

Cavalier would make you a better tank, further locking down enemies and guarding allies. And it doesn't use your BAs, or require the Attack action, so no conflict with your Booming Shillelagh + Tentacle routine.

Eldritch Knight would let you pick up a number of additional utility cantrips and load up on (non-INT-dependent) defensive/utility spells like Shield, Absorb Elements, Fog Cloud, Mirror Image, Darkness, Tiny Hut, Sending, etc., also gaining higher level spell slots for upcasting your Warlock spells like Armor of Agathys, plus eventually give you something useful to do with your BA if you run out of Tentacle uses.

Battlemaster would give you some useful maneuvers, including noncombat stuff like Commanding Presence that would make you an even more effective Party Face.

[adb82]

https://forums.giantitp.com/images/sand/icons/icon_thumbsup.png



Here's some ideas! Specifically for "a martial class pirate with a bit of magic that can tank."

- A Totem Barbarian with the level 6 Eagle feature that lets them see for a mile. Hangs out in the crow's nest. Uses their at-will "Speak with Animals" to talk to the gulls to gather info on ports of call and such.
- A bellowing rapier-wielding Conquest Dexadin who inspires and terrifies their crew, and burns fuses in their hair and beard to terrify their foes (a la Blackbeard).
- An Ancestral Guardian that was the housewife of a great Not-Viking hero who died of a mysterious magical plague rather than falling battle, and thus didn't get to Not-Valhalla. So she made a Valkyrie's pact with the ancestors to earn a heroic death in his stead, taking up his axe and shield and heading to the high seas.
- An Arcane Trickster that takes a 1-level Fighter dip for shield proficiency and Superior Technique (Brace), and uses Warcaster/Booming Blade for devastating off-turn sneak attacks if anyone tries to reach their 3 backline full-casters (or Brace if people try to close on them, or Uncanny Dodge if someone hits them). Has a parrot familiar that helps in combat named "Folly."

Love the totem barbarian idea, but for the character i have in mind maybe a conquest dexadin can work better.


Sounds like, while this party will have a [I]lot[\I] of control, but not a lot of single target damage. By the sounds of it, your wizard and warlock have both built for control, and druid is already a very controll-y class.
What you need is a good frontliner, or something with decent single target damage. Personally, I think the Paladin would combine those well. They have heavy armor and d10 hd, making them able to tank for your party. You could do a dexadin as well, which might work better. (Light armor on the sea would be good.) also sentinel, because goodness that party is squishy.

Your other best option is rogue. Thematically, the swashbuckler is pretty good. The other good thing about swashbucklers is that they can sneak attack at range, meaning that they can maintain their damage, even when control spells keep you from getting to melee. Since you’ll probably have ships, sharpshooter with longbow will do you very well.

Yep im also starting to think that the paladin is the way to go with this group


Thinking about this further, it may actually be worth considering going something like Fighter 1 -> Fathomless Warlock 3 (or 4 for ASI) -> Fighter X, if you're okay with skipping out on higher level Warlock spellcasting in exchange for some useful Fighter subclass abilities and Action Surge. You'd have some lower level Warlock spells and invocations to play around with, but the core stuff you'd want from Fathomless (swim/water breathing, CHA-based weapon and BA tentacle attacks, Booming Blade, etc.) all comes online by Warlock 3, and tentacle uses scale with Proficiency.

For Fighter Subclass, there are a few solid options:

Cavalier would make you a better tank, further locking down enemies and guarding allies. And it doesn't use your BAs, or require the Attack action, so no conflict with your Booming Shillelagh + Tentacle routine.

Eldritch Knight would let you pick up a number of additional utility cantrips and load up on (non-INT-dependent) defensive/utility spells like Shield, Absorb Elements, Fog Cloud, Mirror Image, Darkness, Tiny Hut, Sending, etc., also gaining higher level spell slots for upcasting your Warlock spells like Armor of Agathys, plus eventually give you something useful to do with your BA if you run out of Tentacle uses.

Battlemaster would give you some useful maneuvers, including noncombat stuff like Commanding Presence that would make you an even more effective Party Face.

This would solve me a problem, as i just knew that the warlock of the party is a fothomless, but in this way would be a very different character. Ill probably prefer the MC with eldricht knight.

So i will choose between the conquest paladin dex based and the fothomless warlock/eldricht knight, i still have couple hours for think about it lol. :P

[Sorinth]

I'd go with the Conquest Paladin and be a Dragonborn who is trying to amass his own personal dragon hoard.

[LudicSavant]

I'd go with the Conquest Paladin and be a Dragonborn who is trying to amass his own personal dragon hoard.

That's a good hook! :smallbiggrin: Could also make it a Ravenite Dragonborn Swashbuckler Rogue (with the Tasha's variant so the stats are right). This is a particularly effective combo because of the off-turn sneak attacks.

[chiefwaha]

So i will choose between the conquest paladin dex based and the fothomless warlock/eldricht knight, i still have couple hours for think about it lol. :P

Paladin adds in a touch of healing to a group that's fairly light on healing. Just food for thought.

[N810]

Barbarian: Path of the Storm Herald

Is also pretty firing for a slightly magical Pirate.
Especially if you take the "Sea" for all 3 options.


Ps. don't forget you can take Pirate as a Background.

[da newt]

If you do go Fathomless Warlock, maybe a MC w/ Tempest Cleric would be even more thematic than EK Fighter?

[adb82]

I went for the conquer paladin in the end, but i didnt write neither all the sheet as we was running out of time and it was just a session 0. So now i should build it.

Any advice?

As we said i would prefer it dex based, as i cant imagine an heavy armored guy on a pirate ship.

What spells i should chosose?

Any idea of how to use its bonus action?

Some smart combat tactics to know?

Thanks guys anyway, you helped me to choose the class in few time.

[nickl_2000]

Any idea of how to use its bonus action?

The Telekinetic feat would be a solid investment for a conquest Paladin, not only is it a half feat, but the other bullets are helpful. Keeping them in your aura by pulling them towards you, keeping them away from the squishies, pulling them or pushing them off a ship or rigging, etc.



What spells i should chosose?

Bless, Command, Cure Wounds, Shield of Faith.

When you get your aura, Wraithful Smite, etc.

[stoutstien]

I went for the conquer paladin in the end, but i didnt write neither all the sheet as we was running out of time and it was just a session 0. So now i should build it.

Any advice?

As we said i would prefer it dex based, as i cant imagine an heavy armored guy on a pirate ship.

What spells i should chosose?

Any idea of how to use its bonus action?

Some smart combat tactics to know?

Thanks guys anyway, you helped me to choose the class in few time.

Wrathful smite is the backbone of any conquest paladin. Is notoriously difficult to shake off because it calls for a check and not a save once you've got them frightened so not only do they not get that proficiency if they happen to have it they have disadvantage due to the frightened condition.
After that it's a pretty common suggestion to find either a way of gaining some low-level fear spells or grabbing a race that has some fear ability. It's not necessary but something like shadow touched gives you some diversity in your ability as well.
Later on you get one of the best bonus action spells that happen to be concentration free as well and it really promotes focusing on your charisma.

One particularly nasty combo you can pull off is one of the casters grabbing a spell that damages twice a round or turn. Even bonfire can rack up some damage quickly.

Keep a couple backup plans to get for fear immune targets. Good news is you are a paladin so that's pretty easy.

[Sigreid]

If you can do it, a Yan-ti conquest paladin is immune to the cloud kill spell they can cast after rooting their foes in place...

[stoutstien]

If you can do it, a Yan-ti conquest paladin is immune to the cloud kill spell they can cast after rooting their foes in place...

Could work if you got the warlock pushing them along to keep up with the cloud kill. The good news is most things that are immune to fear also immune to poison so you know real quick at the strategy is going to work or no

[Sigreid]

Could work if you got the warlock pushing them along to keep up with the cloud kill. The good news is most things that are immune to fear also immune to poison so you know real quick at the strategy is going to work or no

Nothing stops you from starting the cloud behind you to maximize rollover time.

[Sorinth]

There's a guide on these forums called something like Wall of Fear that gives a ton of good advice.

The breath weapon from dragonborn would likely be much more useful then it normally is. Limited space on ships means lots of people in the AoE and can also damage the ship. There's also the Dragon Fear feat that can give you another source of generating fear.

Leonin have a BA fear effect and visually make cool looking pirates.

Not sure if you are evil pirates or not. If it is then being a slaver and using a whip is a way to be Dex based with range for when locking down people with the aura. Bugbear's can also do this while using something like a Rapier.

[RogueJK]

There's also the Dragon Fear feat that can give you another source of generating fear.

Leonin have a BA fear effect and visually make cool looking pirates.


While it may look good at first glance, in practice Dragon Fear is pretty lackluster on a Conquest Paladin. It costs a feat, takes an Action to activate, and affected targets get a new save every time they take damage. They're going to be automatically taking damage from your aura, plus any attacks against them. So they're basically guaranteed to rapidly be able to succeed at one of their numerous save attempts.

If you want a racial fear effect, Leonin is superior. They get it automatically without needing to spend a feat. And while it's shorter range, it's only a Bonus Action, and if the targets fail their initial save it's two solid turns of Frightened with no further save opportunities.

If you really want to spend a feat to get another fear effect, Shadow Touched is an option to pick up Cause Fear. It's a CHA-half feat, plus gets you Invisibility too. But you already have a solid single-target Level 1 fear spell baked in with Wrathful Smite, so Cause Fear isn't really necessary.

[Sorinth]

While it may look good at first glance, in practice Dragon Fear is pretty lackluster on a Conquest Paladin. It costs a feat, takes an Action to activate, and affected targets get a new save every time they take damage. They're going to be automatically taking damage from your aura, plus any attacks against them. So they're basically guaranteed to rapidly be able to succeed at one of their numerous save attempts.

If you want a racial fear effect, Leonin is superior. They get it automatically without needing to spend a feat. And while it's shorter range, it's only a Bonus Action, and if the targets fail their initial save it's two solid turns of Frightened with no further save opportunities.

If you really want to spend a feat to get another fear effect, Shadow Touched is an option to pick up Cause Fear. It's a CHA-half feat, plus gets you Invisibility too. But you already have a solid single-target Level 1 fear spell baked in with Wrathful Smite, so Cause Fear isn't really necessary.

I agree Leonin is probably best.

Shadow Touched is certainly a good option as well, like Dragon Fear it's a half feat so either one can help even out those odd scores. The advantage of Dragon Fear is that it recovers on Short Rest instead of Long Rest and doesn't cost Concentration. It's that concentration that hurts since Paladin has a number of good things to concentrate on including the bread and butter of the build, Wrathful Smite. Also the pirate part actually makes the SR recharge a little better since you can SR while the ship is moving you should in theory get more SR then normal.

[adb82]

For exemple, assuming a Vhuman

8 str, 16 dex, 14 cos 8 int, 10 wis, 16 cha

Feats @1 magic initiate for shape water (can do nasty things with this in a ocean campaign i think) and shillelagh, jump will be the once a day spell @4 and @8 im not sure if pick shadow touched and than telekinetic or just boost cha to 20, or even cha 18 and sentinel. What do you think about?

Fighting style is defense.

The spells prepared now, at lv 3, should be armor of agathys and command, plus wrathful smite, shield of faith, detect magic, bless. But well, with just 3 slots i suppose in the beginning ill use just shield of faith and 2 slots more ill save for a smite, than when i get 2 lv spell slots at lv 5 armor of agathys can be a good weapon and from lv 7 with the aura wrathfull smite i suppose will be kinda spammed (and this fight with shield of faith, but i suppose ill not cast it anymore from lv 5 already), and once i start to get some slots more it will be anyway very useful. Bless fight with shild of faith in the beginning and with wrathfull smite later on, but i couldnt find anything else from 1st lv spell list of the paladin, except purify food and drink and ceremony all other spells i didnt already pick are concentration spells. Any suggestion here?

ps other think that make me worry is the AC that without shield of faith will be 18, but probably its not a big deal now that we finally got a tempest cleric in the group.

[stoutstien]

For exemple, assuming a Vhuman

8 str, 16 dex, 14 cos 8 int, 10 wis, 16 cha

Feats @1 magic initiate for shape water (can do nasty things with this in a ocean campaign i think) and shillelagh, jump will be the once a day spell @4 and @8 im not sure if pick shadow touched and than telekinetic or just boost cha to 20, or even cha and dex both to 18. What do you think about?

Fighting style is defense.

The spells prepared now, at lv 3, should be armor of agathys and command, plus wrathful smite, shield of faith, detect magic, bless. But well, with just 3 slots i suppose in the beginning ill use just shield of faith and 2 slots more ill save for a smite, than when i get 2 lv spell slots at lv 5 armor of agathys can be a good weapon and from lv 7 with the aura wrathfull smite i suppose will be kinda spammed (and this fight with shield of faith, but i suppose ill not cast it anymore from lv 5 already), and once i start to get some slots more it will be anyway very useful. Bless fight with shild of faith in the beginning and with wrathfull smite later on, but i couldnt find anything else from 1st lv spell list of the paladin, except purify food and drink and ceremony all other spells i didnt already pick are concentration spells. Any suggestion here?

ps other think that make me worry is the AC that without shield of faith will be 18, but probably its not a big deal now that we finally got a tempest cleric in the group.

How are you getting shillelagh to key of Cha?

[adb82]

How are you getting shillelagh to key of Cha?

Magic initiate: druid, but you are right it wont work.

[nickl_2000]

For exemple, assuming a Vhuman

8 str, 16 dex, 14 cos 8 int, 10 wis, 16 cha

Feats @1 magic initiate for shape water (can do nasty things with this in a ocean campaign i think) and shillelagh, jump will be the once a day spell @4 and @8 im not sure if pick shadow touched and than telekinetic or just boost cha to 20, or even cha 18 and sentinel. What do you think about?

Fighting style is defense.

The spells prepared now, at lv 3, should be armor of agathys and command, plus wrathful smite, shield of faith, detect magic, bless. But well, with just 3 slots i suppose in the beginning ill use just shield of faith and 2 slots more ill save for a smite, than when i get 2 lv spell slots at lv 5 armor of agathys can be a good weapon and from lv 7 with the aura wrathfull smite i suppose will be kinda spammed (and this fight with shield of faith, but i suppose ill not cast it anymore from lv 5 already), and once i start to get some slots more it will be anyway very useful. Bless fight with shild of faith in the beginning and with wrathfull smite later on, but i couldnt find anything else from 1st lv spell list of the paladin, except purify food and drink and ceremony all other spells i didnt already pick are concentration spells. Any suggestion here?

ps other think that make me worry is the AC that without shield of faith will be 18, but probably its not a big deal now that we finally got a tempest cleric in the group.


How are you getting shillelagh to key of Cha?

This is a very valid question. Outside of the DM just allowing you to break the rules, Shillelagh will key of the casting stat of the class you took it from. So, in this case you would need to take it from Druid meaning it would key off of Wisdom instead of Charisma. The only way to get Shillelagh to use Charisma as the casting stat is to get it through Pact of the Tome an choose it as one of your cantrips.

[adb82]

This is a very valid question. Outside of the DM just allowing you to break the rules, Shillelagh will key of the casting stat of the class you took it from. So, in this case you would need to take it from Druid meaning it would key off of Wisdom instead of Charisma. The only way to get Shillelagh to use Charisma as the casting stat is to get it through Pact of the Tome an choose it as one of your cantrips.

Yep i just realized it, uhm...maybe thorn whip instead than shillelagh than, for pull frightened enemies inside the aura.
But i still dont know what to do with the other feats.

[nickl_2000]

Yep i just realized it, uhm...maybe thorn whip instead than shillelagh than, for pull frightened enemies inside the aura.
But i still dont know what to do with the other feats.

Don't forget that Thorn Whip will also use Wisdom as your casting stat.

On the other hand, you could take
MI: Warlock for EB, Lightning Lure, and Hex
MI: Sorcerer for Shape Water, Lightning Lure, and Jump

Both of these would use Charisma as a casting stat and would accomplish your goal.

[adb82]

Don't forget that Thorn Whip will also use Wisdom as your casting stat.

On the other hand, you could take
MI: Warlock for EB, Lightning Lure, and Hex
MI: Sorcerer for Shape Water, Lightning Lure, and Jump

Both of these would use Charisma as a casting stat and would accomplish your goal.

Right point, EB would be usefull for ranged damage if sometime i cant reach melee, while shape water can do nasty things to enemie's ships, hex is a better spell than jump, and it last 1 hour, but its concentration also and the paladin have a lot of concentration low lv spells, while jump can help me to indeed jump from a ship to other, its not easy to choose. Lighting lure basically is almost same thorn whip, TW is a bit better but they are very similar spells.

[RogueJK]

A Warlock going Pact of the Tome, or a Bard taking it as one of their Magical Secrets, are the only ways to get CHA-based Shillelagh.


Lighting lure basically is almost same thorn whip, TW is a bit better but they are very similar spells.

Mechanically, TW is definitely better than LL. LL's only draw is that it's CHA-based and on different spell lists than vs. the WIS-based TW.

[nickl_2000]

Right point, EB would be usefull for ranged damage if sometime i cant reach melee, while shape water can do nasty things to enemie's ships, hex is a better spell than jump, and it last 1 hour, but its concentration also and the paladin have a lot of concentration low lv spells, while jump can help me to indeed jump from a ship to other, its not easy to choose. Lighting lure basically is almost same thorn whip, TW is a bit better but they are very similar spells.

I would look to see what cantrips are picked up by your other players. You have a Druid in the party in a nautical campaign, there is a very good chance that they will have taken it and you can look at something else. Don't forget that there are a lot of of useful cantrips. Control Flame is deadly in boat to boat combat. Your wizard drops a flame arrow lighting the ship on fire, you can control flames to double the size of the fire that the wizard started. That turns a small fire into something that will disable a ship in an instant. This goes the same for when your fireball happy wizard drops a fireball that lights your ship on fire as well, you can put them out without having to worry about it.

Minor Illusion can be used to make debris appear in the water in front of other ships to make them turn.
Mending can fix lots of broken things on a ship
Gust can push people off of ships and make yours move faster
Light can help you see since you are a VHuman
Message is always useful



I might also look at Mage Armor for your level 1 spell. It's one AC better than studded leather, so it will be useful pretty much forever. I have a Rogue with it, and I use it every single day without fail.

[Tawmis]

For me - Swashbuckler Rogue, and flavor it with Pirate background.

I actually recently played a Swashbuckler Rogue who was a Pirate (Tiefling) - and just basically flavored his dialogue to be similar to that of Jack Sparrow/Barbossa in terms of just having a fun character.

[Joe the Rat]

I can assure you that mending is an exceptional pick for shipboard life. If you have the pieces, you can put it back together.

I'm also a big supporter of find familiar as the 'daily' - you might not cast it every day, but you'll have your own parrot / monkey / cat, just hanging out waiting for the opportunity to (potentially) die for your fleeting tactical advantage.

[adb82]

I would look to see what cantrips are picked up by your other players. You have a Druid in the party in a nautical campaign, there is a very good chance that they will have taken it and you can look at something else. Don't forget that there are a lot of of useful cantrips. Control Flame is deadly in boat to boat combat. Your wizard drops a flame arrow lighting the ship on fire, you can control flames to double the size of the fire that the wizard started. That turns a small fire into something that will disable a ship in an instant. This goes the same for when your fireball happy wizard drops a fireball that lights your ship on fire as well, you can put them out without having to worry about it.

Minor Illusion can be used to make debris appear in the water in front of other ships to make them turn.
Mending can fix lots of broken things on a ship
Gust can push people off of ships and make yours move faster
Light can help you see since you are a VHuman
Message is always useful



I might also look at Mage Armor for your level 1 spell. It's one AC better than studded leather, so it will be useful pretty much forever. I have a Rogue with it, and I use it every single day without fail.

Minor illusion seem interesting, but i suppose with shape water you can make appear real ice spikes in front of other ships.
Manding is very useful on a ship.
Gust also can be fun.
Light is other one im thinking about.

Ill probably go with shape water and light, as i think the druid already got mending and control flames. Still not sure if ill get jump or mage armor...

What about the other feats? Having to count on dex for attack and AC is probably bettere give priority to dex than cha?
Because in this case i can think about +2 dex at lv 4 and maybe sentinel at lv 8 or +2 cha.

But its also true that the aura require frightened creatrures that have to roll a TS against my spell DC, so im not sure the right way to go is dex over cha...

[nickl_2000]

Minor illusion seem interesting, but i suppose with shape water you can make appear real ice spikes in front of other ships.
Manding is very useful on a ship.
Gust also can be fun.
Light is other one im thinking about.

Ill probably go with shape water and light, as i think the druid already got mending and control flames. Still not sure if ill get jump or mage armor...

What about the other feats? Having to count on dex for attack and AC is probably bettere give priority to dex than cha?
Because in this case i can think about +2 dex at lv 4 and maybe sentinel at lv 8 or +2 cha.

But its also true that the aura require frightened creatrures that have to roll a TS against my spell DC, so im not sure the right way to go is dex over cha...

The lockdown effect of your aura doesn't kick in until level 7. So, I don't see a reason to pump your charisma early. Your main schtick is going to be stabbing people from level 1-6. I would definitely do +2 Dex as the level 4 ASI and either +2 Dex or +2 Cha at level 8 (depending on how play is going and how you have found yourself using your character).

I wouldn't plan to far out from level 4, because you have a long ways to go before you are getting into those level. There are magic items that could change everything for you, or you may find your party and playstyle really benefit from one over the other.


For consideration purposes, I would be using ASIs to get Dex and Cha to 20 before you take any feats. With the conquest Paladin you just get way to much good stuff from both those stats not to max them.

[tKUUNK]

- An Ancestral Guardian that was the housewife of a great Not-Viking hero who died of a mysterious magical plague rather than falling battle, and thus didn't get to Not-Valhalla. So she made a Valkyrie's pact with the ancestors to earn a heroic death in his stead, taking up his axe and shield and heading to the high seas.

Yessssssss!

[adb82]

The lockdown effect of your aura doesn't kick in until level 7. So, I don't see a reason to pump your charisma early. Your main schtick is going to be stabbing people from level 1-6. I would definitely do +2 Dex as the level 4 ASI and either +2 Dex or +2 Cha at level 8 (depending on how play is going and how you have found yourself using your character).

I wouldn't plan to far out from level 4, because you have a long ways to go before you are getting into those level. There are magic items that could change everything for you, or you may find your party and playstyle really benefit from one over the other.


For consideration purposes, I would be using ASIs to get Dex and Cha to 20 before you take any feats. With the conquest Paladin you just get way to much good stuff from both those stats not to max them.

As i vhuman i get 3 asi's till lv 10, so its impossible to max both dex and cha. But yea, probably lv 4 is +2 dex and lv 8 on taste, dex or cha. :P

About bump dex also with the Vhuman feat i was considerng also it, but no darkvision, no cantrips for a character that anyway use its limited spell slots for smite also...i wanted to give him some utilities more, i was also considering eldricht adept for devil sight at lv 1, but seem magic initiate give me more good stuff and get it at lv 8 seem like it have few sense. And also start with 15 cha and get at lv 1 fey or shadow touched...finally i decided magic initiate was a better way to go, but im still not sure about it.

[KorvinStarmast]

Multiclass is an option?

Swords Bard/Swashbuckler Rogue not only is it the most piratey thing out there, but it's actually a pretty decent multiclass. True enough, but rather than multiclass, I suggest:
A College of Valor Bard, Sailor Background.
Gets medium armor + shield at 3, is a full caster, gets two attacks at 6, and gets some extra skills and proficiencies that fit the character. Expertise at 3? Take Athletics and one other. (likely intimidation or persuasion, leadership thing). Why athletics? Expertise doubles proficiency, and shoving people over the side looks like standard fare for this chacter. Also, climb checks if needed get quite the boost.

While this may not be super tanky, it can do some CC that helps keep the enemy damage down. (Hypnotic pattern, Command (if we use Tasha's), Dissonant Whispers, and so on).

I have discovered, 'tanky' wise, that the use of a bardic inspiration to add to one's AC (a poor man's version of the shield spell for one attack) after an enemy attack roll is a very nice use of Bardic Inspiration (uses reaction). Damage prevention is a good thing. Four times per short rest once level 5 is achieved (assuming Cha gets boosted at 4 to 18).

The Dex based Conquest paladin also seems to be a nice idea, a la Blackbeard.
Which looks like the choice you made.

I went for the conquer paladin in the end{snip} So now i should build it.
What spells?
Any idea of how to use its bonus action?
Some smart combat tactics to know?
OK, Conquest paladin Sailor/Pirate background, vHuman, point buy (right?)
Fighting style defensive is a decent one.

Magic Initiate: Sorcerer; Lightning Lure, Shape Water, and Jump
Not a bad idea, but I'd do it differently.
Feat: resilient, Con. Why? Some of your spells need con saves (bless, Shield of Faith) and Con saves are quite common throughout the game.
S 10 D 15+1 C 13+1 I 8 W 10 Ch 15(+1)

Why is Cha 16 to start? Your spells and Conquest abilities key off of Cha. Command, for example, has a save versus the casting. The Conquering Presence calls for a wisdom save. Your Cha needs to be up there.

As to the five skills: Sailor gives you athletics and perception. Good stuff. Paladin gives you Intimidation and Insight. Not sure where to go with the last one, maybe Survival or Persuasion.

Anyway, that's my suggestion.

[adb82]

ok, so im building it on dex, i was thinking that +3 dex, +3 mage armor, +2 shield, +2 shield of faith its already an AC of 20 till lv 5, if it get defensive duelist at lv 4 and upcasting armor of agathys from lv 5 possibily with Aid, even without shield of faith he should be ok. So this make me think maybe duelist can work better than defense as fighting style, considering also i think it gonna use a rapier till lv 7, from there on it should use a whip for stay ranged.

Do you think it work in this way? It gonna end with 16 dex and 18 cha.

[KorvinStarmast]

ok, so im building it on dex, i was thinking that +3 dex, +3 mage armor, +2 shield, +2 shield of faith its already an AC of 20 till lv 5, if it get defensive duelist at lv 4 and upcasting armor of agathys from lv 5 possibily with Aid, even without shield of faith he should be ok. So this make me think maybe duelist can work better than defense as fighting style, considering also i think it gonna use a rapier till lv 7, from there on it should use a whip for stay ranged.

Do you think it work in this way? It gonna end with 16 dex and 18 cha.
Is mage armor from the Magic Initiate feat? And Heck Yeah, dex based build all the way.

[TheMango55]

How about a wood elf drunken master monk. Use Tasha’s optional rules to switch short sword proficiency to scimitar and dedicated weapon to make your scimitar a monk weapon

[KorvinStarmast]

How about a wood elf drunken master monk. Use Tasha’s optional rules to switch short sword proficiency to scimitar and dedicated weapon to make your scimitar a monk weapon Even better. :smallsmile:

[adb82]

Is mage armor from the Magic Initiate feat? And Heck Yeah, dex based build all the way.

Yep, actually its a vHuman with magic initiate feat. As cantrip i though shape water its good as its a sea campaign with pirates themes, freeze 5 ft of water and give it an iceberg shape can be devasting for enemies ships. For the second one im still not sure, because the first thing coming in my mind is light, as he is a human, but one between booming blade and green flame blade would be nice to have too for the opportunity attacks, but lacking on darkvision im not sure its a good idea. The first lv spell is mage armor, even i was still thinking also about jump, for go from a ship to other jumping, but the duration of mage armor (8 hours) make me think is a better choice probably.

Other doubt is about the fighting style: dueling? Or defense?

[Sorinth]

The Defence fighting style only works if your wearing armor so is useless if you are using Mage Armor.

[adb82]

The Defence fighting style only works if your wearing armor so is useless if you are using Mage Armor.

Yep, if i go for defense im gonna wear light armors instead and so ill have the same AC. But it let me choose a different spell for magic initiate (for exemple jump). But yea probably mage armor and dueling works better.

Still not sure about the second cantrip from magic initiate, light or one between booming blade and GFB.

[LudicSavant]

Yessssssss!

Like that one, do you? :smallsmile: