Roleplaying How do you deal with roleplaying a evil character? [Archive]

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Sir Edgen

2021-06-04, 03:04 AM

Hello everyone.
After the long waiting I finally get to play a Way of the Wicked PF adventure path. The problem is, for some reason I can't stand to play evil characters for too long. It just gets too uncomfortable for some unexplainable reason. While I build my backstory and structurize the key moments that define "evil" of my character, everything seems fine. But actually playing such character makes me ashamed and uneasy - again, I can't tell why exactly. The longest I can play as a non-serious moustache-twirling villain, but this type clearly doesn't fit the tone of WoW.
Well, the obvious answer would be "play something else" to which I say - this problem shouldn't be this hard to solve. It is just roleplaying, pretending to be someone else. It souldn't make me feel like a bad guy. Moreover, in real life I would characterize myself as a man with N alignment, so digging a little deeper inside my more rotten part for some inspiration shouldn't be that hard.
For some reason, I have much less problems with clearly villainous but non-evil characters. Am I that turned off by the word "evil" in my character sheet?
Can you give me some pointers on how to make roleplaying such characters easier?
Thanks in advance

MoiMagnus

2021-06-04, 03:15 AM

Select something your character do not value at all (but that any moral person should value).
Quite often, evil is just "Rational behaviour for someone who doesn't value X at all."

Mastikator

2021-06-04, 03:44 AM

You don't have to be a villain just because you're bad guy. You don't have to be hostile/backstabby to the party just because you're evil. You don't even have to be mean or rude, affably evil is a common trope and IMO appropriate for evil PCs. I find it easier to play evil characters if I am team player and advocate for the party. Although doing that is sometimes difficult in and of itself when a player thinks that passive aggressive pvp is appropriate roleplaying :smallannoyed:

wilphe

2021-06-04, 05:06 AM

Red Fel Red Fel Red Fel

Kol Korran

2021-06-04, 09:08 AM

Ahem, in case he is still around (I'm not sure):
"Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel!"

For those tho don't understand- Red Fel is a GiTP forumite, who is exceptionally insightful about playing evil, and has helped/ discussed/ advised on such subjects many times before. He often got into threads when someone posted his name 3 times in a row. Ohz and some think he is the devil in (admitablly handsome ans stylish) disguise.

He also wrote an excellent guide on roleplaying Lawful Evil. You can check it out here:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rewarded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil

In case he isn't on the forums, I'll try to sum up my main ideas (Some of which are inspired by his advice):
1. Don't play "an evil character". Play a character, fully fledged out personality, who's behaviour, interaction with the world, and impact, put her into the "evil spectrum". She isnt evil for the sake of being evil. It is just that her motives and actions are percieved as such by the conventional moral system.

2. Choose something the character strongly believes in, some ideal/ goal/ aspiration, that you yourself as a player feel you can identify with, roleplay easily enough, that isn't usually on the "evil spectrum". Now decide that the character believes in this concept to an extreme, far more than other ideals, and is willing to do a lot, to fulfill this. A sort of "The end result justifies the means and sacrifices on the way" frame of mind. Keep that in your mind, and as the main drive and justification for the character's decisions and actions. Justification both against the common world's values set, but also inwardly, for her inner debate.

3. And the inner debate/ ambivalence/ uneasiness, which you yourself feel as a a player, can be portrayed as well! It can even enhance the character, give it more depth, and enable you to "put it on the table", address it on game as well. But keep the "hig cause/ motive/ value/ driving force, as your reasoning for doing the evil you "have to" do.

4. As Red Fel once wrote: "Be evil, but don't be a monster." Evil are people, humans, and there are reasons and motives behind their actions. They don't do evil for ecil's sake. Play evil with class! Not a ravenous slaughter happy despicable monster. The most compelling evil is affable evil.

5. Seek out great evil characters from the common mediaz to which you can relate, connect on some level, and which may serve as inspirstion.

As an example:
I once had a charscter concept, which was used for the Way of The Wicked game, and another game set in Cheliax from Golarion. (Both lasted too shortly and borke up too soon, but I degress). He was a his very core, a nationalust who loved his country, but hated it's current state. He lived its former glory, achievments, tradition and spirit. He saw the current rule as wrong, faulty, and killing the very soul of his beloved country. So he set out to change this- to take his country back to it's former glory, to remind it what it is, to restore it, to save it. The country, in his eyes, was greater than changin times, then it's mortal population, than it's current rule, then he himself. He set out on his course in order to save his country, no matter what it would take. If regretabbly it would require bloodshed, war, temporary set backs, re-education, hard uncompromising rule in order to dispose of damaging influence, sacrificing his time, family, friends, his very soul... Then so be it. The country is bigger, and its future more important than all the temporary, unfortunate yet necessary sacrifices...

It was modelled after Mollari from Babylon 5. It is one of the series most likeable characters, but hisnlove for his country drive him to do hideous things.

What made him evil? Not just his decisions and actions, but HOW he came to them... As Red Fel suggest in his guide- The ecil of the character is often portrayed in the excess and extremes of her actions. Mollari, for example, when deciding to get rid of a rival, does not simply kill him. He arranges his death in such a way to dishonor and discredit his house, breaking it completely. And it is but one example... In the end, he thinks back on what he has done, and what drove him to it.

Somw grear scenes, that relate to the subject:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DYbckvO7VYxk&ved=2ahUKEwjdntDnk_7wAhXxN-wKHcSzD6MQo7QBegQICBAE&usg=AOvVaw01kpXQXfgUQtRyizFXUDv7

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DZly_tL5mMc8&ved=2ahUKEwjjpa7pnf7wAhXVhf0HHfAjAnsQo7QBegQIBxAE&usg=AOvVaw1Dzgs-Aw6HDUdz2M_Y6t0_

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DO7RJ7WOKE_o&ved=2ahUKEwiq47Hsnv7wAhWugv0HHap_A-UQo7QBegQIChAE&usg=AOvVaw2EYUpDk66nA_-mZrVSDs1A

Look for great villains, but such that are compellong to play, and have a great motive which you can play as well, play out the inner conundrum, but dont stray from your motivation, and when acting- act in excess at times.

But seriously- read Red Fel'a guide above. It is THAT good!
... I mean Evil. That Evil... but in the best (and worst) of ways!

Good luck!

kyoryu

2021-06-04, 10:32 AM

Select something your character do not value at all (but that any moral person should value).
Quite often, evil is just "Rational behaviour for someone who doesn't value X at all."

This, where "X" is usually some variant of "other sentient beings".

Or, at the minimum, "the ends justify the means" is a great way to get to Evil, especially if the ends are actually understandable and understandable.

Evil shouldn't, usually, be about enjoying inflicting harm on others. It's about the willingness to, for whatever reason. This is also how you play Evil in a party - you just have them recognize the other party members as valuable allies, and see the folly in betraying them (even if you have to overplay that in your character's mind).

Smart Evil can also take the long view - in many cases, smart Evil is indistinguishable from Good... until it isn't.

Calthropstu

2021-06-04, 10:53 AM

From what I have seen, way of the wicked actually requires some pure evil acts to succeed. Setting people up, misdirection, impersonating people to make them kill each other... so you may be in the wrong campaign

While an evil person could simply be a sleazy landlord blackmailing his renters for cash and... services, this ap requires you to be the direct cause for 10s of thousands of deaths. So if you're not ok with that, I'd drop.

Glorthindel

2021-06-04, 10:59 AM

I find playing evil characters to be pretty straight forward. I have played an evil character in a majority good party, and it is easy to make work. Because it was clear my number one concern was the safety of my team mates. Sure, we had differences in opinion on how we treat prisoners, other peoples property, and what constitutes an innocent, but at the end of the day, I could only accumulate the wealth and power I desired, by having a group of people I could trust implicitly not to stab me in my sleep, and guard me from the beings whose knowledge I sought to plunder. And I could only do that by not treading too heavily on their own values and beliefs. In turn they were willing to overlook my occasional callousness and pragmatism.

Trust is the key. Adventurers by their nature go in to life and death situations daily, and if you are going to do that, you have to be absolutely confident you can trust the guy at your back. Because this guy is going to be in your blind spot when you fight, he will be watching over you when you sleep, he will be holding the rope you are using to climb down a cliff face, and it will be his word you will be relying on when he says "this door isn't trapped". If there is even an ounce of distrust, your character would be unwilling to place his life so regularly in the hands of another, and in that case, you wouldn't be willing to step out the door with him. Sure, an evil character might be self-serving, but your are not served by hanging around heavily armed combat specialists who do not trust you - establishing and maintaining trust with your collegues is the most self-serving thing you can do in such situations!

That doesn't mean an evil character has to be 'boring' or hide his nature to hang out with a good party. No matter how good your companions are, there will be times when they find the good approach to resolve a situation just that little bit too hard or time consuming. That's when you step in and offer the more expedient option. Sure, sometimes you have to slightly bend the truth, but there will be plenty of times when a good character will allow the devil on his shoulder to convince him. This especially works if you are good friends out of game - in a past session, my friends were laughing out of game at the somewhat twisted version of events I was spinning to justify taking the faster and more ruthless option, while painting it as the only right and logical course of action (when it of course wasn't). I find it removes the element of distrust when you are "evil in plain sight". If you don't hide being that bit more ruthless and pragmatic, and openly suggest less palatable solutions to problem, then your allies don't need to worry about you hiding evil plans.

Ettina

2021-06-04, 11:32 AM

For some reason, I have much less problems with clearly villainous but non-evil characters.

Define "clearly villainous but non-evil"?

Calthropstu

2021-06-04, 12:05 PM

Define "clearly villainous but non-evil"?

"Yes, I am trying to deztroy the world. But listen, the world is improsoning a massive monster that, when the world ends, will go on to destroy countless worlds. I am going to destroy this in a way that will also kill him because that is the only chance the rest of us have. Yes, I am killing billions. But its to save trillions."

gijoemike

2021-06-04, 03:02 PM

I have played in the first 2 parts of that campaign path. We all died to a TPK and decided to not restart.

Let me tell you what I played.

I played a 1/2 orc inquisitor who witnessed his entire village in the northern reaches get massacred by knights of the church, and that was 12 years ago. The GM extended the backstory of one of the major paladin NPCs and made the commander of those troops. I had my 1/2 orc hell bent on revenge against that one guy. And that one guy worked for the main church which is also the government. So, I had good reason to bring it down or go against it.

At another point you run into a leader of some group of solders/knights and that happened to be the son of said paladin. So, as a group we killed one of his family. It was part of the adventure, that guy was going to die anyway. I didn't have to go out of my way to do evil vile act away from the party.

If anything stood in my way it was taken out. I went along with the mission in order to facilitate my revenge. Summon a demon here, attack a castle/town here, as long as it hurt my target of revenge it happened. Was I evil or backstabby to the party? no, to the other evil npcs? Actually no. Was I a total and complete jerk to any and all demons/devils we had to deal with? Hell yes I was, YOU CANNOT TRUST A DEMON.

How many ppl are in your party?
Are you playing in person or remote?
What are some of the other people playing?
How far along the path are you?

jjordan

2021-06-04, 03:28 PM

Calthropstu

2021-06-04, 03:47 PM

The greater good. The ends justify the means. Etc...

Don't be evil: be motivated to accomplish a goal, be willing to make unpleasant sacrifices (personal and impersonal) to achieve that goal, and believe with all your heart that the value of achieving the goal is worth all the unpleasant costs even if the rest of society doesn't agree with you

They are not working for the greater good. They are working towards the greater evil. Wholesale slaughter, killing women and children, slaughter the fortress, sacrifices and dead babies. Like seriously, the party may as well be sentient strategic nukes.

Slipjig

2021-06-04, 03:59 PM

I suspect that this is probably more of an issue for people who identify strongly with their character. If doing straight up monstrous things makes you uncomfortable, then don't. This this supposed to be a fun pasttime.

I'm not familiar with this particular story path, but you might want to have a conversation with your DM about what might be required of your character, and whether you are okay with it.

Even if the answer is "no" there could be some good role playing opportunities there. As long as the other PCs aren't "murder innocents for the lulz" evil, a Good or Neutral PC might be able to stay with the party for quite a while, especially if her goals align with everyone else's. You can be the conscience of the party, trying to get them to find less-awful ways to accomplish their goals. And there can be some great drama when things finally reach a point where everybody else is about to cross what you consider to be a Moral Event Horizon, where you draw your sword, step between the rest of the party and their victim, and say, "I'm sorry, but I can't let you do this." You may or may not survive that scene (and even if you escape, the DM may rule that your character is now an NPC), but I guarantee that a moment like that is the kind of scene that players will be talking about long after the campaign ends.

Alcore

2021-06-04, 10:44 PM

For some reason, I have much less problems with clearly villainous but non-evil characters. Am I that turned off by the word "evil" in my character sheet?
Can you give me some pointers on how to make roleplaying such characters easier?
Thanks in advance

There are some lines we are just unwilling to cross.

for instance (to remain on theme) I find one's soul to be the one thing that should not be sold or harmed or killed. Every evil campaign I have been in has had the PCs selling their souls. So here I went and made this great, strong villain for a great game and... he has to sell his soul to continue... He is now a slave. He is now less than a beast. He is now a weak craven thing unfit to keep breathing. He isn't even as good as an evil minion (unless they sold their souls too). Suddenly I have lost all respect for my character and... I'm done playing...

Perhaps putting Evil on your sheet represents something like that. A line you will not cross. I can't help you with that.

Segev

2021-06-05, 07:58 AM

Others have said variations on this, but it sounds like Way of the Wicked will 'make' you be evil. So play a character you want to play, and just make sure they are willing to do unkind things when necessary. Make a ruthless pragmatist; it will probably be evil enough as long as you set your goals in alignment with the campaign's.

Pauly

2021-06-05, 08:09 AM

1) In D&D/RPGs in general ‘evil’ is generally defined as being selfish. An NPC needs you to save his family from orcs, but there is no reward? Let the family die. That’s a serviceable definition, but not very nuanced.
In a PC this is someone motivated by self interest. The PC basically doesn’t care if other people think he’s evil as long as he achieves his personal goals.

2) IRL evil people see themselves as the good guys doing what it takes to bring about a better world. I can’t discuss many examples without breaking forum rules, but organized crime is probably the best example that can be discussed. Al Capone - well someone was going to sell bootleg liquor, so why not me? The other mobsters are out to kill me so I have to kill them first don’t I? I’m providing a service people want so why isn’t it OK to bribe a few cops to look the other way? If I don’t control the rackets there’s going to be shootouts on every street corner and that’s bad for everyone, who else can do it?
Evil people want to justify to themselves what they have done as being reasonable, often framing it as preventing worse harm, or someone is going to do it so why not me, or it’s redressing an injustice.
It’s very rare to have true sociopaths who think what they are doing is evil and wrong yet still do it.
In a PC this is a character interested in what they perceive to be the greater good, but willing to do unsavory things to achieve that good. The PC thinks they are either the good guys, or better than the other guys.

3) while I believe there is objective evil, there is also some degree of subjective evil. This is the realm of action X is acceptable in one culture but unacceptable in another.
In a PC this is a character from what is defined by outsiders (i.e. the players) as an evil culture into a game. The character thinks what they are doing is normal and unremarkable.

4) True sociopath. Knows what they are doing us wrong, but because they get pleasure from it they do it anyway. Your basic serial killer/Batman villain type.
I’d only recommend playing this type if character in a superhero/supervillain type of game.

Edit to add
5) Addicts. Addicts may not have bad intentions but are functionally evil. An addict will to anything to anybody to get their next hit.

False God

2021-06-05, 12:23 PM

Set limits. Set goals. Figure out what I'm willing to do to achieve them. Figure out which of my own lines I'll cross when it is most effective to achieve my goals. Understand that for some of these goals I may require the aid of others and some of these goals may be very long-term, so putting a lot of time and energy into ensuring my allies are strong, loyal and effective is well worth it if it accomplishes my goals in the end. Understand that most people just "don't get it" and can't see the "big picture", and don't bother explaining it to them. Keep them focused on the immediate steps in front of you. I can be a positively nice person to be around, a good influence on the community and every waking moment need not be service to my ambitions. I can enjoy the roses, a sunny day, a good cup of tea, a friendly conversation.

I'm evil, not a wild animal.

And yes, I know I'm evil. I don't think I'm some doo-gooder who's just "doing what it takes". No, I know I'm evil. There's no internal justification that what I'm doing is for a better world, or for the "greater good". I'm evil. I want power. I think I should be in charge. It's really that simple.

----
This is typically how I play NE and LE.

-----
Also, as a rule of thumb, I don't write "??? Evil" on my character sheet. As both DM and player, I believe that character information is essentially secret information, and the fact that you're evil should come out during play. Not right away of course. But that's the fun of it. The party doesn't know you're evil. It's only once you've turned your ragtag group of murder-hobos into efficient killing machines that they start to realize that maybe the guy leading them...isn't leading them in the right direction.

And you are leading them. Even if you're not the defacto leader of the party. If you're not the Lord Commander you're Jafar. The leader comes to you for advice, while his natural charisma rallies the party in the direction you've advised him. You are an upstanding, supportive. helpful member of the party. Willing to slaughter those who would harm your "friends" and sit them down and have a nice long talk about their wants and desires and how you can assist them. Because, again, a loyal ally will go to much greater lengths to help you.

------
Of course, there's nothing wrong with playing a chaotic evil psycho, as long as you follow the meta rule to direct your behavior outward. Stealing and murder is fine and fun, as long as it's stealing from and murdering those who get in the way of the party. Sure, you might be a wild animal, but you are a wild animal that serves your party's goals and while service to others may seem a poor way to be "chaotic", ultimately you understand that by serving the party you are more able to satisfy your desires than working without or against them.

Pauly

2021-06-05, 09:08 PM

One thing, some people claim intelligent evil is indistinguishable from good while it serves the purposes of evil to pretend to be good. This may be true from a distance if you don’t look closely, but in detail it will be wrong. The saying “someone who is nice to you, but an a-hole to the waiter is an a-hole” applies. Evil will show out when dealing with situations where there is no benefit to pretending to be good. Some small examples:
- The storekeeper accidentally gives you too much change on your purchase? You keep the money.
- You have an opportunity to donate anonymously to charity? Never happens.

It’s going to show up in the little choices, the amount of persuading it takes to make a sacrifice that doesn’t benefit yourself. The big showy actions, yeah evil can fake that easily, the small actions that good does naturally without thinking are much much harder to fake.

icefractal

2021-06-06, 05:14 AM

Way of the Wicked is a somewhat atypical situation. With the whole party being evil, you don't need to worry as much about fitting in, but you do need to figure out where your lines are as far as association. Like, what kind of evil party members are you ok with, and what kind are too repulsive?

IIRC, WotW has some external circumstances force you to work together, but that means it's all the more important to decide OOC what works for everyone, before any characters are locked in.

Red Fel

2021-06-06, 09:58 AM

Red Fel Red Fel Red Fel

Ahem, in case he is still around (I'm not sure):
"Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel!"

Hello, it's me! The Red Guy! And welcome to my Ask Me Evilthing.

Today's poster asks:

Hello everyone.
After the long waiting I finally get to play a Way of the Wicked PF adventure path. The problem is, for some reason I can't stand to play evil characters for too long. It just gets too uncomfortable for some unexplainable reason. While I build my backstory and structurize the key moments that define "evil" of my character, everything seems fine. But actually playing such character makes me ashamed and uneasy - again, I can't tell why exactly. The longest I can play as a non-serious moustache-twirling villain, but this type clearly doesn't fit the tone of WoW.
Well, the obvious answer would be "play something else" to which I say - this problem shouldn't be this hard to solve. It is just roleplaying, pretending to be someone else. It souldn't make me feel like a bad guy. Moreover, in real life I would characterize myself as a man with N alignment, so digging a little deeper inside my more rotten part for some inspiration shouldn't be that hard.
For some reason, I have much less problems with clearly villainous but non-evil characters. Am I that turned off by the word "evil" in my character sheet?
Can you give me some pointers on how to make roleplaying such characters easier?
Thanks in advance

First of all, your preferences are entirely valid. And if you can't stand playing Evil characters, that's fine. But keep in mind that, if that's the case, WotW may not be for you. It's all about expectations - if you only ever play Rogues, for example, you don't volunteer to join an Undead-heavy campaign in which your precision damage will be mostly useless. Way of the Wicked is very much about playing a bad guy alongside other bad guys, and if any part of that makes you uncomfortable, it's okay to give that campaign a pass.

You say "it shouldn't make me feel like a bad guy," but it can. If your roleplaying is good enough, it probably will. The best roleplaying comes when that wall between you and your character drops, and you achieve total immersion, even for a moment. And if you can't stand to live in that place, that is not your fault. You have limits, and that is totally fine.

All that said, it sounds like your problem is with certain Evil behaviors and not with Evil motivations. If you can be villainous-but-not-Evil, as you put it, then you can be Evil - just up to a point. So the first step is to find where those limits are.

Kol Korran cited several good points - which you know are quality because they're attributed to me - which I'll repeat.

1. Don't play "an evil character". Play a character, fully fledged out personality, who's behaviour, interaction with the world, and impact, put her into the "evil spectrum". She isnt evil for the sake of being evil. It is just that her motives and actions are percieved as such by the conventional moral system.

This. Evil is a mindset. The best way I can describe it is "achieving my goals no matter the cost." Every Evil character has an ambition, a drive, a goal. Whether it's something petty like getting the girl down the street to notice you, or something grand like world domination, you have a goal. And you are willing to crush anyone and anything that stands between you and your goal. Now, that doesn't mean you don't care. Some of the more tragic villains mourn every life they take in pursuit of their aims, but they also see them as necessary sacrifices.

This is why the cosmology pings them as Evil. Because while Good has lines it will not cross, Evil will cross lines. That said, Evil does not have to cross every line, see below.

2. Choose something the character strongly believes in, some ideal/ goal/ aspiration, that you yourself as a player feel you can identify with, roleplay easily enough, that isn't usually on the "evil spectrum". Now decide that the character believes in this concept to an extreme, far more than other ideals, and is willing to do a lot, to fulfill this. A sort of "The end result justifies the means and sacrifices on the way" frame of mind. Keep that in your mind, and as the main drive and justification for the character's decisions and actions. Justification both against the common world's values set, but also inwardly, for her inner debate.

Again, this. Evil isn't always about justifications - some of the worst Evils outright embrace what they do - but others are big on justifying their actions. "It was for the greater good." "I did what others were unable to do." "I want to build a world where someone like me doesn't belong." If Evil makes you uncomfortable, justify. Don't be afraid to be a character who doesn't see his actions as Evil, just necessary.

3. And the inner debate/ ambivalence/ uneasiness, which you yourself feel as a a player, can be portrayed as well! It can even enhance the character, give it more depth, and enable you to "put it on the table", address it on game as well. But keep the "hig cause/ motive/ value/ driving force, as your reasoning for doing the evil you "have to" do.

This especially. In my guide I describe a number of characters who do the worst possible thing for the best possible reasons. Those who hunt monsters using their prey's methods. Those who embrace the darkness to fight the darkness. Those who engage in acts of ruthless cruelty because it's the only way to maintain a stable society. Conflict can be very much a part of your character, especially if it helps you to grapple with what that character does.

Or, in a WotW context, who the character does it with. Remember, you're not Eviling alone here.

4. As Red Fel once wrote: "Be evil, but don't be a monster." Evil are people, humans, and there are reasons and motives behind their actions. They don't do evil for ecil's sake. Play evil with class! Not a ravenous slaughter happy despicable monster. The most compelling evil is affable evil.

This. As I said above, Evil crosses lines, but that doesn't mean it has to cross every line. Look at David Xanatos, a personal favorite of mine, from Disney's Gargoyles. Affable, friendly, approachable for a chat. Also ruthless, ambitious, and while he is capable of love, he sees it only as a weakness. He is the sort of person who will manipulate and torment beings far more powerful than he, again and again, and still approach them the next day for civil conversation. And he has lines he will not cross. He doesn't indulge in petty revenge. He won't go after the Gargoyles during the day, even though they're helpless, because they are still useful to him. There are limits to his Evil.

Find your lines. Your character may be a ruthless knight, who will torture and slaughter his order's enemies, but he will never harm civilians. He may be a savage predator, but he considers preying on the weak to be beneath him. You can - and should - put limits on what your character is willing to do. Makes things more interesting.

5. Seek out great evil characters from the common mediaz to which you can relate, connect on some level, and which may serve as inspirstion.

This last part almost goes without saying. Everyone has a favorite villain. Everyone has that one character they love to see on screen. Maybe it's Ursula from The Little Mermaid or Rumplestiltskin from Once Upon a Time. Maybe it's Kefka from Final Fantasy VI or Sephiroth from VII. Maybe it's SHODAN or maybe it's GLaDOS. Pick the one you enjoy watching over and over, and then emulate.

And again, if you can't stand any villains in media... That's a sign too. If you really can't stand villains, don't play one. That's not a blemish on you, that's just your limit as a player, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Kish

2021-06-07, 03:37 PM

The longest I can play as a non-serious moustache-twirling villain, but this type clearly doesn't fit the tone of WoW.
It doesn't? That sounds perfect to me, actually. For the adventure path itself; it might break the immersion for one or more of your fellow players, of course.

Starbuck_II

2021-06-07, 11:22 PM

When I was in that game, never finished game fell apart sadly.

My character's heart was broken by a guy so she burned the church he was in down after locking the doors.

Revenge and spite is a very easy to understand for emotions.

When I wrote the backstory, I used a song as reference: "Reomava did not want to set the world on fire, she just wanted to start a flame in his heart. "

Sir Edgen

2021-06-23, 07:37 AM

Thanks for the great pointers, everyone. Also I have a long way to figure out what to do with my inexplicable aversion for roleplaying evil characters, I might have a solution. During one interesting discussion on the topic "making good characters with typically evil races", I've seen one extremely useful advise. In essence, if you want to build such character, don't build him - start like a typical NE goblin, for example, then change his "core moral values" over time through dialogs with other characters to show character growth.
Here I'll use this advise in reverse - I'll start with LN character. The concept that I've come up with is he was captured and inslaved in childhood. But rather then become avenger or help fighting slavery, he realized his own weakness that prevented him from training to fight the slavers back or even end his own life to escape slavery. At the start of AP he lives by the extreme "survival of the fittest" principle, where "fittest" can mean anything from being wealthier than your opponents to being smarter, physically stronger or better at lying. His ideal Talingarde is a land where only "strong" people can survive. These inner rules are close to Asmodeus' point of view, but this characrer will be closer for "blood knight" trope. If this concept allows me to play through the whole AP, it will do it. If no, I'll roleplay him becoming more evil until it is necessary for AP while cheking with other players' characters to not to overstep any lines

KorvinStarmast

2021-06-23, 08:18 AM

After the long waiting I finally get to play a Way of the Wicked PF adventure path. The problem is, for some reason I can't stand to play evil characters for too long. It just gets too uncomfortable for some unexplainable reason. Maybe you are, deep down, a good person and have great empathy for others and that informs how you react to games/movies etc. :smallsmile: My wife is that way.

"Yes, I am trying to destroy the world. But listen, the world is imprisoning a massive monster that, when the world ends, will go on to destroy countless worlds. I am going to destroy this in a way that will also kill him because that is the only chance the rest of us have. Yes, I am killing billions. But its to save trillions." Neat way to frame it, but I am not sure if the adventure path fits that framing.

I suspect that this is probably more of an issue for people who identify strongly with their character. If doing straight up monstrous things makes you uncomfortable, then don't. Bingo. There are entire forum threads that discuss the X Card and Safety tools for RPG groups. Some people are not comfortable with certain topics, and they need a way to be heard.

With the whole party being evil, you don't need to worry as much about fitting in, but you do need to figure out where your lines are as far as association. Like, what kind of evil party members are you ok with, and what kind are too repulsive? IIRC, WotW has some external circumstances force you to work together, but that means it's all the more important to decide OOC what works for everyone, before any characters are locked in. Nice point on the OOC player discussion before going forth.

First of all, your preferences are entirely valid. And if you can't stand playing Evil characters, that's fine. But keep in mind that, if that's the case, WotW may not be for you. {snip} You have limits, and that is totally fine. Just an advisory from me as a follow on to Red Fel's excellent point: don't let OOC peer pressure from others who may be comfortable with more vicious evil force you into a play mode that you are not comfortable with. See above, Safety Tools, etc. Speak up if your personal lines are crossed.

Or, in a WotW context, who the character does it with. Remember, you're not Eviling alone here. Given that a TPK is possible, per a previous post, teamwork seems to be a requirement in this AP. Focus heavily on that.

Evil crosses lines, but that doesn't mean it has to cross every line. {snip} Find your lines. As ever Red Fel FTW! :smallsmile:

Everyone has a favorite villain.
Rafael Montero, from the Mask of Zorro is mine.

I'll start with LN character. The concept that I've come up with is he was captured and enslaved in childhood. But rather then become avenger or help fighting slavery, he realized his own weakness that prevented him from training to fight the slavers back or even end his own life to escape slavery. At the start of AP he lives by the extreme "survival of the fittest" principle, where "fittest" can mean anything from being wealthier than your opponents to being smarter, physically stronger or better at lying. His ideal Talingarde is a land where only "strong" people can survive. These inner rules are close to Asmodeus' point of view, but this character will be closer for "blood knight" trope. If this concept allows me to play through the whole AP, it will do it. If no, I'll roleplay him becoming more evil until it is necessary for AP while checking with other players' characters to not to overstep any lines Play to find out who the character really is, and who he becomes.
That's a nice, organic PC growth method.
Best of Luck! :smallsmile:

muggie2

2021-06-24, 11:13 PM

I've always had a simple process for roleplaying an evil character.
1) What do they want?
2) What are they willing to do to get it?
3) How can they survive long enough to achieve the goal?

Number 1 can be anywhere between good and evil. Number 2 can also.
The general rule is that if either 1 or 2 is evil, then you're perceived as evil. A good goal achieved by evil means, or an evil goal achieved by good means, is still evil.
As long as you don't perceive yourself as evil, then it's fun to play. "The villain never sees a villain in the mirror".

Number 3 is usually "Join a party of people who you can trust to watch your back. Good or neutral people, generally, or trustworthy evil in a pinch."
You work together a group because that way you can all survive. You make allowances for your colleagues, they make allowances for you.
I've played a Lawful evil mage in a party with a lawful good paladin. The paladin only cared about the end result (which was good), and as long as he didn't see the means by which she achieved the goal and she never told him about it, he never questioned her commitment to the cause. He even commended my character for her willingness to do what was necessary. She never told him how much she enjoyed it. :-)

Duff

2021-06-25, 02:38 AM

Sorry if it's been mentioned and I missed it im my scan.
You talked about looking to your "rotten part" for evil, but also that playing evil makes you uncomfortable.
So maybe don't look to your own rotten part if that's what makes it uncomfortable. Look elsewhere.

Also, to echo advice from above - Don't make "An Evil character". Make a personality you're happy to play that will fit the campaign. If you can't do that, maybe you need to sit this one out

Vahnavoi

2021-06-25, 03:58 AM

Core component of your personal difficulty is that your idea of playing evil is playing your evil, when for a game, you'd want to be playing someone else's evil.

For example, when playing cartoonish evil, that evil feels fake and superficial, the over-the-top nature of it by itself reminds you that you are playing a game, that situation is fake, and hence it does not trigger real feelings of shame, disgust and guilt.

The more you draw on what you personally think is evil, even though the game situation continues to be fake, the emotion grows more real. In the simplest terms, you cannot repeatedly engage in behaviour you think is wrong without it feeling wrong.

But for the purposes of a game, what evil is, is decided by game rules more than your person. In case of alignment in D&D and Pathfinder, the definitions are up to the game master.

So, to play remorseless evil, pick a behaviour you yourself would be okay with but which are evil in context of the game. Depending on how congruent your definition of evil is with the game's, this may be easy or impossible.

Alternatively, accept that as a non-evil person (or at least a person who doesn't want to be evil), you cannot play an evil character without feeling shame, guilt and disgust. If your character is meant to be remorseless, you just have to act, to pretend - which is fundamentally what you're doing anyway. Accept that the discomfort is part of the process and the goal is eventual catharsis when your character is either redeemed or destroyed. Or find some other goal for which your temporary discomfort is justified.

Frankbit

2021-06-27, 09:20 PM

Well, I play WoW now. If you ask me how to roleplay a Villain in WoW (https://www.ssegold.com/wowclassic-gold), I will say... a Villain is somewhat different from a criminal,criminals break the rules of society and will be run after by the guards. Villains... well... they do not rob banks, that's a CRIME made by C-R-I-M-I-N-A-L-S, Villains will break more of mystic rules and general non written rules, and might strive for world Domination, good villains might include a few demons, but they're evil. Garrosh Hellscream, is a good example of Villainy.

Just because your character strives for world domination doesn't mean he will achieve it, and as a general rule, unless the whole realm agrees to it, or Blizzard, which will not happen, he WILL NOT ACHIEVE WORLD DOMINATION. Also, i gave Garrosh as an example, but your character is not the master of a whole capital city, it is unlikely he has an army of god like creatures. So get that outta your head. And by unlikely i mean IMPOSSIBLE. Unless you can solo,out of character, the whole raid of Orgrimmar b yourself, before the game reaches the point where you can get to lvl 120, then sure, but that doesn't remove the right of people deciding to blacklist you.

Easy e

2021-07-09, 03:56 PM

A good villain always believes they are the hero of the story. It just that what they are trying to accomplish is not heroic or has a cost that is way too high to pay.

That is it.

NichG

2021-07-09, 06:30 PM

I'll second the 'choose something not to care about' suggestion. Or even go further and pick a thing to actively disregard. It doesn't have to be other sentient beings, it could be things like the idea that comfort matters, or that society in its current form matters, or propriety, or...

I played an 'evil' Scorpion clan character in an L5R game, in the sense of transgressive against the morality of the setting and even of the Scorpion clan. His evil was basically 'the stability of the empire is all that matters. Family, clan, honor, fealty, and even the primacy of the emperor are all just lies that others believe in - exploit that belief, but don't get attached'

He wanted to burn down a historic estate with a bunch of important guests inside in order to ensure that a Lying Darkness infiltration didn't take root. Didn't go over so well with the higher ups.

Duff

2021-07-13, 06:49 PM