How to get away with murder... in DnD

[pabelfly]

I want to plan a session where players can attempt to solve a murder mystery. This requires an NPC character (no specific race or class) that is able to pass "Sense Motive" checks from the players after denying they murdered the character. They are not necessarily required to commit the murder themselves if they can somehow get another NPC to do the murder on their behalf without remembering how they were influenced to do so.

What would be some good low-level spells, feats, etc. that would help make this situation happen?

[BaronDoctor]

Well, far as beating sense motive there's the usual suspects for skills, but far as plausible deniability, the thought of it being a "deliberately forgotten" cover identity of a spymaster <http://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/spymaster/index.html>
Could let the character say that _they_ didn't do it, it was Joe the plumber and that isn't them.

[gijoemike]

One must remember that sense motive isn't this

Killer: "Poor master Jes. I will miss him so. I could never bring myself to harm him."
Killer - rolls bluff
PC - rolls sense motive and wins
PC: "This is the murderer, he killed him just past midnight for his fortune."

Sense motive doesn't mean the PC finds out exactly what the true intensions are. Sense motive is really this

NPC: Poor master Jes. I will miss him so. I could never bring myself to harm him
NPC - rolls bluff
PC - rolls sense motive and wins
DM - you feel that statement isn't completely truthful. There is a sense of underlying hostile feeling or perhaps history with the victim

Reasons:
NPC hated the victim. But in fact didn't kill him nor wanted to
NPC had a previous secret affair with the victim and doesn't want that exposed
NPC knew about the previous affair and is keeping that secret in order to blackmail the lover later.
NPC has helpful info but not vital but is keeping that as a get out of suspicion card if they get accused.
NPC was plotting to murder the victim but someone else beat them to the deed
NPC has no strong feeling for victim. Doesn't feel bad about his death.
NPC knows a vital fact about the case that points to the real killer but is hiding it for reasons.
NPC would have beat him to a pulp given an opening. But didn't kill him.
NPC has aggressive history with the victim, didn't kill him, knows nothing about the murder, but now feels they will blamed based on this history and is laying it on super thick to avoid being accused.
NPC was embezzling funds from the estate of the victim. Wants to avoid being found out but had nothing to do with the murder.
NPC knows who the actual killer is but isn't willing to reveal that info yet.
NPC is the mastermind and is covering for the killer but isn't the killer themselves.
NPC is the actual killer.
NPC is one of 3 different killers and is going to protect everyone.


Sense Motive simply tells you something is amiss about the situation or current statements. It doesn't correct the statement or give the missing info. It will give you a general idea of the purpose of an action.

This ambush was meant to drive the army into the valley.
This ambush was assassins meant to kill the duke.
This barkeep knows more but they aren't talking.
This person is omitting important details
This person is being untruthful in some manner.
This person is putting up an act of bravery
That person isn't upset that Bob was murdered.
That person is far more upset than everyone else but is trying to hide it.
This person is very nervous

Failing a single sense motive check or 4 or 5 in a row doesn't end the adventure due to a few die rolls.

I suggest you have the PCs detect several different NPCs are hiding info. Or have ill will toward the victim. And later on find more info about people that passed their bluff check.

Have white lies and exaggerations be in many statements that the PCs are supposed to uncover. It will make the Player feel clever they have found out so much. You could go so far as to have every single person lie and exaggerate to expose how toxic the court/relationship/estate was.

[ciopo]

Glibness is THE bluffing spell for lowish level shenanigans, how low level are we talking about? in core only it's a bard 3 spell, it only has a somatic component so the murderer can just "rub his hand under the table" to cast it, it's a +30 bonus to bluff checks for 10 min/level, AND it let's the user attempt to fake it under truth spells, even.

[Cygnia]

Skill Focus: Bluff as a feat

[Maat Mons]

I suggest one of the players turns out to be the murderer. Or all the players.

Probably the easiest way to pass an interrogation is to hire a changeling to impersonate you.

There's no reason that only one of the suspects has to turn out to have been involved. There's also no reason why the PC's supposition that "the killer is someone in this room" needs to turn out to be correct.

For that matter, the victim could turn out to be alive.

[Calthropstu]

How low level are we talking about? Speak with dead allows the caster to ask "who killed you?" Getting around that will be tricky.

If that is not available, it means the victim wasn't truly that important. Killing someone without ever being seen by the victim can bypass that, but there are many inescapable details that can be found.

The best way to do this? Anonymously hire a guy you don't know to dominate you and order you to kill the person you want dead. You will be telling the truth that someone you don't know dominated you and you were forced to kill him. If captured, the guy will honestly say "I don't know who hired me. It was just a job."

Magic will reveal who the murderer was, but you already know. Finding the guy who hired the caster will be very very difficult. The fact that the guy who was dominated hired the guy who dominated him? Kinda makes an awesome plot twist.

[pabelfly]

One must remember that sense motive isn't this

Killer: "Poor master Jes. I will miss him so. I could never bring myself to harm him."
Killer - rolls bluff
PC - rolls sense motive and wins
PC: "This is the murderer, he killed him just past midnight for his fortune."

Sense motive doesn't mean the PC finds out exactly what the true intensions are. Sense motive is really this

NPC: Poor master Jes. I will miss him so. I could never bring myself to harm him
NPC - rolls bluff
PC - rolls sense motive and wins
DM - you feel that statement isn't completely truthful. There is a sense of underlying hostile feeling or perhaps history with the victim

Reasons:
NPC hated the victim. But in fact didn't kill him nor wanted to
NPC had a previous secret affair with the victim and doesn't want that exposed
NPC knew about the previous affair and is keeping that secret in order to blackmail the lover later.
NPC has helpful info but not vital but is keeping that as a get out of suspicion card if they get accused.
NPC was plotting to murder the victim but someone else beat them to the deed
NPC has no strong feeling for victim. Doesn't feel bad about his death.
NPC knows a vital fact about the case that points to the real killer but is hiding it for reasons.
NPC would have beat him to a pulp given an opening. But didn't kill him.
NPC has aggressive history with the victim, didn't kill him, knows nothing about the murder, but now feels they will blamed based on this history and is laying it on super thick to avoid being accused.
NPC was embezzling funds from the estate of the victim. Wants to avoid being found out but had nothing to do with the murder.
NPC knows who the actual killer is but isn't willing to reveal that info yet.
NPC is the mastermind and is covering for the killer but isn't the killer themselves.
NPC is the actual killer.
NPC is one of 3 different killers and is going to protect everyone.


Sense Motive simply tells you something is amiss about the situation or current statements. It doesn't correct the statement or give the missing info. It will give you a general idea of the purpose of an action.

This ambush was meant to drive the army into the valley.
This ambush was assassins meant to kill the duke.
This barkeep knows more but they aren't talking.
This person is omitting important details
This person is being untruthful in some manner.
This person is putting up an act of bravery
That person isn't upset that Bob was murdered.
That person is far more upset than everyone else but is trying to hide it.
This person is very nervous

Failing a single sense motive check or 4 or 5 in a row doesn't end the adventure due to a few die rolls.

I suggest you have the PCs detect several different NPCs are hiding info. Or have ill will toward the victim. And later on find more info about people that passed their bluff check.

Have white lies and exaggerations be in many statements that the PCs are supposed to uncover. It will make the Player feel clever they have found out so much. You could go so far as to have every single person lie and exaggerate to expose how toxic the court/relationship/estate was.

Sense Motive, to me, is a problem if the players ask the simple question of "Did you kill the victim". You have come up with good scenarios where multiple people feel or are guilty, but I'd like for the players to have to do more than just speak to people for evidence. I'd also like to have a way for the murderer can misdirect to another person.

There are some good ideas here though, so thanks for the response.


Glibness is THE bluffing spell for lowish level shenanigans, how low level are we talking about? in core only it's a bard 3 spell, it only has a somatic component so the murderer can just "rub his hand under the table" to cast it, it's a +30 bonus to bluff checks for 10 min/level, AND it let's the user attempt to fake it under truth spells, even.

This will do quite nicely. Thank you very much.


How low level are we talking about? Speak with dead allows the caster to ask "who killed you?" Getting around that will be tricky.

If that is not available, it means the victim wasn't truly that important. Killing someone without ever being seen by the victim can bypass that, but there are many inescapable details that can be found.

The best way to do this? Anonymously hire a guy you don't know to dominate you and order you to kill the person you want dead. You will be telling the truth that someone you don't know dominated you and you were forced to kill him. If captured, the guy will honestly say "I don't know who hired me. It was just a job."

Magic will reveal who the murderer was, but you already know. Finding the guy who hired the caster will be very very difficult. The fact that the guy who was dominated hired the guy who dominated him? Kinda makes an awesome plot twist.

Thanks for the tip about "Speak With the Dead". I also rather like the idea of an NPC hiring someone to bewitch them to kill someone. I'll definitely use this some time - if not now, when I create another murder mystery.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Do it legally by using Diplomacy to convince whoever is in charge to give you a writ of execution for execution for something the target did that might, in the right light, be considered worthy of the punishment.

Doesn't matter if someone figures out whodunit, because it's done, and you have the backing of the government.

[Silva Stormrage]

There are two options that might work if you want to avoid Glibness (As that spell is completely overpowered in the amount of bonus it gives)

Conceal Thoughts here (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/concealThoughts.htm) gives a more reasonable +10 bonus to bluff and is a 1st level psionic power.

The other option is to have him modify his own memory.

A 7th level telepathy psion could very easily modify his own memory so that he honestly can't recall committing the crime.

Step 1) Manifest Suggestion on himself to kill the target next they are alone. Then remove the memory of them manifesting the suggestion.

Step 2) Show up at some point with the target and the suggestion triggers, they then kill the target in some manner.

Step 3) Modify Memory themselves so they forget the murder took place and instead they just said their farewells and left and then remove the memory of them manifesting modify memory.


This basically prevents the party from using read thoughts, or sense motive on the target as the psion honestly doesn't remember committing the crime. Instead they would have to rely on clues left at the crime scene, divinations, etc.

[FrogInATopHat]

Doesn't matter if someone figures out whodunit, because it's done, and you have the backing of the government.

Why would a killing be investigated in this case?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Why would a killing be investigated in this case?That's part of the mystery, innit? Perhaps someone from another country or a private citizen wanted an investigation because they were convinced something shady was going on, and it's a governmental coverup. Or maybe the death wasn't proclaimed, the death was the result of a governmental assassination, and the person just disappeared, with a token investigation just for show, but someone wasn't convinced by it.

[aglondier]

The simplest way would be to have the true killer be of sufficient social status to simply refuse to answer to the pcs.

PC: Did you kill the victim.
Killer: You dare accuse me. Remove yourself from my presence or I shall have you flogged. The mayor/minister/guard captain/king/high priest/whoever will hear of this, I assure you.

If they press the issue, things start getting really uncomfortable for them. Prices of goods and services suddenly shoot up, taxes and fees suddenly get levied, their tavern of choice gets closed, the local thieves guild takes an interest in their possessions, contacts suddenly know nothing...and all these problems just disappear when they back off from their investigation...

Also, have a lawful evil lawyer pop up, either as an ally in the investigation (yes, torture is a perfectly valid investigation technique) or as an extra antagonist using the laws against them (testimony gained through unlawful use of magic is not admissible in court)...

[Time Troll]

This is a standard mystery trope: everyone has secrets and is guilty of something......but are not the one that did the crime.

You know classic story, person is killed in a mansion and all 12 people there have a motive and the opportunity to do it ...but only one of them is guilty

Really when you get around a mystery, a vague skill like sense motive will just tell you that "something" is up with nearly everyone.

Also if your doing a D&D mystery, remember to make all the NPCs have class levels and feats and such. They don't need to be combanants, but they do need to be equal or greater level to the PCs. So the servant is a 11th level commoner, for example.

Choker of Eloquence complete adventurer p.132: There are two versions of these chokers. A lesser choker of eloquence grants a +5 competence bonus on Diplomacy, Bluff, and Perform (sing) checks. A greater choker of eloquence increases the bonus to +10. Price 6,000 gp (lesser), 24,000 gp (greater).

Mask of Lies complete adventurer p.134: This black, featureless mask has only slits for eyes and mouth. The wearer can use disguise self on herself at will and is continually under the effect of undetectable alignment. In addition, she gains a +5 competence bonus on Bluff checks. A mask occupies the same space on the body as eye lenses or goggles. Price 17,000 gp.

Shawl of Bewitching complete adventurer p.135: A character wearing this simple-looking shawl gains a +5 competence bonus on Bluff checks made to conceal the truth (but not on any other use of the Bluff skill, including feinting in combat, creating a diversion to hide, or delivering a secret message). It also adds 1 to the wearer’s caster level when he casts any enchantment (charm) spell. A shawl occupies the same space on the body as a cloak, cape, or mantle. Price 3,500 gp.

Spells:
Insidious Insight (Races of Eberron, p. 187) Bard 2, Sor/wiz 2, Wizard 2, Spellthief 2; 1 day/level: target creature, +10 insight bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive checks made against it.


Serene Visage (Spell Compendium p.182) Bard 1, sor/wiz 1; 1minute/level: You gain an insight bonus equal to one-half your caster level (maximum +10) on Bluff checks.

Feats:
Street smart: (FRCS p.38) +2 untyped bonus to bluff and gather info checks

Forked Tongue (Serpent Kingdoms p.145): +2 untyped bonus on bluff checks.

Cosmopolitan (PGTF p.37): +2 bonus on Bluff, Gather Information, and Sense Motive checks.

[Efrate]

Pathfinders ultimate intrigue had a nice section on counters to common spells and such, worth a look. Most important is knowing exactly what information and how accurate most spells are. There are limits to a lot of divinations, be sure to understand them. It also has a research system which could be modified to be a criminal investigation without too much hassle iirc.

The other thing is requiring hard evidence to proceed. You spell tells you something, they can call you a liar who is making up what they want to believe. Because in a world with all this magic, its not trusted or accepted immediately by most folks, else mysteries and such would not exist. If every court has access to zone of truth and words are taken at face value, they can just parade a bunch of folks in, ask if they did it, get an answer then its they are free to go or okay case closed we have the culprit.

While some applications spells could do this, it is unfun and ruins a lot. If you can find out anything about anything at low levels why is there any need to adventure, explore and uncover stuff.

[Tzardok]

The other thing is requiring hard evidence to proceed. You spell tells you something, they can call you a liar who is making up what they want to believe. Because in a world with all this magic, its not trusted or accepted immediately by most folks, else mysteries and such would not exist. If every court has access to zone of truth and words are taken at face value, they can just parade a bunch of folks in, ask if they did it, get an answer then its they are free to go or okay case closed we have the culprit.


I would assume that in a world where magic is relatively common, divination magic would be trusted by a lot of people and most courts would at least use a Zone of Truth as a standard addition when questioning witnesses. This is not like asking the court to accepts a tarot reading as evidence in reality; magic is verifyable. It's just that the countermeasures against magic like that would also be common. Magical evidence can be spoofed and falsified just like mundane evidence. It just makes it more likely for the guilty party to slip up with something.

[Calthropstu]

I would assume that in a world where magic is relatively common, divination magic would be trusted by a lot of people and most courts would at least use a Zone of Truth as a standard addition when questioning witnesses. This is not like asking the court to accepts a tarot reading as evidence in reality; magic is verifyable. It's just that the countermeasures against magic like that would also be common. Magical evidence can be spoofed and falsified just like mundane evidence. It just makes it more likely for the guilty party to slip up with something.

I rather suspect it would work like in kono suba where they had a trial with a bell that rings when a lie is told.

[SimonMoon6]

Also, don't forget about "commune".

"Did Fred kill Bob?"

"Yes."

Mystery solved.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These sorts of divination spells make it very hard to have any sort of mystery in a D&D game.

I'm reminded of a certain Monty Python Sketch...

"There's another dead bishop on the landing."

"I'll call the police."

"Shouldn't you call the church?"

"Call the church police."

"Alright. THE CHURCH POLICE!"

(Sirens)

"What's all this then?"

"There's another dead bishop on the landing, vicar-sergeant."

"Men, the chase is on. Now, we should all kneel."

(All): "Oh, Lord, we beseech thee. Tell us who croaked him."

(God, in an effeminate voice): "The one in the braces, he done it."

"It's a fair cop, but society is to blame."

"Agreed. We'll be charging them too."

[Maat Mons]

At the very least, any D&D courtroom should be under a Hallow effect, so you know the witnesses, judge, and jury aren't being processed, charmed, or dominated.

[Cygnia]

OP, are you going for a more hard-boiled noir feeling or more of a cozy mystery?

Another option is to go all "Murder On the Orient Express" where EVERYONE except Poirot is involved in the murder

Do you want your victim innocent/sympathetic or will the deceased to be be a right bastard? If it's the latter, your PCs may not WANT to solve the crime.

[Maat Mons]

Oh, we're using spoilers for an 87 year old book / 47 year old movie / 4 year old movie? Well...

I always liked how Poirot's reaction to finding out he's stranded with a bunch of murderers is to tell them he'll help cover it up. It's the smart thing to do. Otherwise, the train would have arrived in London with two dead bodies, and 12 passengers telling the police how they really have no idea who would want to murder these Ratchett and Poirot fellows.

[Tzardok]

Oh, we're using spoilers for an 87 year old book / 47 year old movie / 4 year old movie? Well...


Well, it kinda makes sense. Imagine you where the one who hadn't read/watched it before. I wouldn't force anyone to put spoilers on it, but I would appreciate the courtesy if it were something I hadn't read before.

[Calthropstu]

Also, don't forget about "commune".

"Did Fred kill Bob?"

"Yes."

Mystery solved.


That's why I had the killer hire someone to dominate them and make them do the killing. We already know Fred killed bob. We need to find the person who dominated Fred and made him kill bob. Then we need to find the guy who hired the dominater.

Figuring out Fred Hired Joe to dominate Fred to make him do the killing is MUCH more difficult. And I don't know of any spell that would figure that out.

It is that kind of thinking you need to do to create a true mystery in 3.5.

[Time Troll]

Also, don't forget about "commune".

"Did Fred kill Bob?"

"Yes."

Mystery solved.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These sorts of divination spells make it very hard to have any sort of mystery in a D&D game.


Maybe not?

In just about any D&D setting Gods are not all powerful, all knowing beings. Thor is busy smashing frost giants, so when you commune with him to ask "Did Fred kill Bob?" he has no idea. Few gods, if any, would know the mundane details of every single event on the planet.

Plus is the Word of a God even usable in court?

[Mars Ultor]

I always liked how Poirot's reaction to finding out he's stranded with a bunch of murderers is to tell them he'll help cover it up. It's the smart thing to do. Otherwise, the train would have arrived in London with two dead bodies, and 12 passengers telling the police how they really have no idea who would want to murder these Ratchett and Poirot fellows.


The reason there are twelve killers is that they're a jury. They all got together and judged Ratchett, finding him guilty. Poirot isn't afraid of being murdered, he can't decide if the execution was just or not, so he refuses to judge the killers, leaving it up to others. It's not that he's afraid of being killed, it's that he's conflicted over whether the jury was legitimate or not.

[rel]

Maybe not?

In just about any D&D setting Gods are not all powerful, all knowing beings. Thor is busy smashing frost giants, so when you commune with him to ask "Did Fred kill Bob?" he has no idea. Few gods, if any, would know the mundane details of every single event on the planet.

Plus is the Word of a God even usable in court?

That last part is the interesting question.
I've always run divinations as having no visible manifestation. You cast a spell and you get information, no one else does.

Even if you know who's responsible, all the NPC's saw was some rootless outsider cast some random spell meditate for a moment then proclaim that they totally know what happened.

For all the jury knows, you just cast a cantrip to scratch your butt and are now lying through your teeth.

Also, remember that commune questions are answered yes or no only, you need to know what to ask and how.

All that being said, if someone drops a spell as powerful as commune, it probably should solve a mystery as trivial as the butler stabbed Doc Lucky when no one was looking and has the stabbin knife hidden in the chamber pot.

[Tzardok]

For all the jury knows, you just cast a cantrip to scratch your butt and are now lying through your teeth.


Well, of course you put the commune guy into a Zone of Truth and have an expert on hand who's good enough in Spellcraft to identify a spell cast in court.

[Mars Ultor]

It's not necessary for the killer to be able to bluff and there some precautions he can take to make sure he's unlikely to get caught using spells. It's important that the victim doesn't see him so the killer can't be identified and that way Speak with Dead doesn't work.

Both Zone of Truth and Sense Motive can be defeated by not being directly involved in the murder. The killer goes into the duke's study and poisons the wine, the duke drinks the wine a day or two later and dies. The killer could argue (depending on the question) that he'd didn't kill the duke. The poisoned wine killed the duke, the killer didn't make him drink it. Or the killer releases a venomous snakes in the victim's bedroom. Again, the snake killed the victim, the killer didn't do anything directly.

If the PCs do some investigating first and then start asking specific questions in a Zone of Truth, the killer has to be careful in his answers. And it's helpful if he's aware of the spell's limitations. I've found that if you (the DM) actually sets a timer for the time the spell is in effect it's sometimes possible to get the players/PCs debating themselves and trying to craft unanswerable questions because they're under pressure from the timer.

[SimonMoon6]

People seem to be assuming that the arresting officers or the prosecution will be the ones casting commune.

I tend to assume that the judge himself will be the one casting commune. That way, there's no doubt in the judge's mind that the commune was cast correctly.

Of course, that could lead to the problem of dealing with corrupt judges, but presumably, you'd get a cleric of some sort of god of law and justice to be the judge, so that the judge would be unlikely to want to lie about what the results of the commune were.

And, really, with the way that the legal practice teaches people to be precise, I'm sure that the judge and any other lawyers on the case would know how to word questions for the commune after all these years of commune being a spell available to spell-casters.

"Did Fred directly or indirectly cause the death of Mr. Bob?"
"Did Fred put the poison in Mr. Bob's chalice?"
"Was Fred under someone else's control or coercion when he put the poison in Mr. Bob's chalice?"
"Was Fred being affected by the spell 'dominate person' when he put the poison in Mr. Bob's chalice?"
"Was that 'dominate person' spell cast by someone who is currently in this courtroom?"
"Was that 'dominate person' spell cast by someone on the left side of the courtroom?"
"Was the entity who cast that 'dominate person' spell bigger than a breadbox?"

(That last question is a reference to "What's My Line?", a classic black and white game show, where yes-or-no questions are asked to determine a person's occupation. Many episodes are on Youtube. A common question asked was in reference to something being bigger than a breadbox.)

[rel]

To expand a little on the 'divination isn't admissible as evidence' idea, It's not that the divination doesn't work, its that people can't see the evidence themselves and don't trust the ones casting the various divination's enough to condemn people based solely on their word.

Bringing in someone else to verify the original caster just kicks the can down the road.
Can you trust that the second caster you brought in to verify with zone of truth to cast the spell right, that the subject in the AOE didn't save, that the questions you ask of them, and their original divinatory questions were formulated correctly, and so on.

There is more than enough room for doubt to make it plausible that a government might respond to the suggestion of 'just use divination' with 'sorry, we don't consider divinations admissible as evidence.'

Which is not to say that you can't have a system of justice that begins and ends with a high level cleric asking the gods for an answer.
That system just seems less suitable for courtroom drama and more appropriate for 'Judge Dredd has declared you guilty, roll for initiative.'

[Bohandas]

I would recommend making sizable offerings to Vecna and possibly also Olidammara

[noob]

One must remember that sense motive isn't this

Killer: "Poor master Jes. I will miss him so. I could never bring myself to harm him."
Killer - rolls bluff
PC - rolls sense motive and wins
PC: "This is the murderer, he killed him just past midnight for his fortune."

Sense motive doesn't mean the PC finds out exactly what the true intensions are. Sense motive is really this

NPC: Poor master Jes. I will miss him so. I could never bring myself to harm him
NPC - rolls bluff
PC - rolls sense motive and wins
DM - you feel that statement isn't completely truthful. There is a sense of underlying hostile feeling or perhaps history with the victim

Reasons:
NPC hated the victim. But in fact didn't kill him nor wanted to
NPC had a previous secret affair with the victim and doesn't want that exposed
NPC knew about the previous affair and is keeping that secret in order to blackmail the lover later.
NPC has helpful info but not vital but is keeping that as a get out of suspicion card if they get accused.
NPC was plotting to murder the victim but someone else beat them to the deed
NPC has no strong feeling for victim. Doesn't feel bad about his death.
NPC knows a vital fact about the case that points to the real killer but is hiding it for reasons.
NPC would have beat him to a pulp given an opening. But didn't kill him.
NPC has aggressive history with the victim, didn't kill him, knows nothing about the murder, but now feels they will blamed based on this history and is laying it on super thick to avoid being accused.
NPC was embezzling funds from the estate of the victim. Wants to avoid being found out but had nothing to do with the murder.
NPC knows who the actual killer is but isn't willing to reveal that info yet.
NPC is the mastermind and is covering for the killer but isn't the killer themselves.
NPC is the actual killer.
NPC is one of 3 different killers and is going to protect everyone.


Sense Motive simply tells you something is amiss about the situation or current statements. It doesn't correct the statement or give the missing info. It will give you a general idea of the purpose of an action.

This ambush was meant to drive the army into the valley.
This ambush was assassins meant to kill the duke.
This barkeep knows more but they aren't talking.
This person is omitting important details
This person is being untruthful in some manner.
This person is putting up an act of bravery
That person isn't upset that Bob was murdered.
That person is far more upset than everyone else but is trying to hide it.
This person is very nervous

Failing a single sense motive check or 4 or 5 in a row doesn't end the adventure due to a few die rolls.

I suggest you have the PCs detect several different NPCs are hiding info. Or have ill will toward the victim. And later on find more info about people that passed their bluff check.

Have white lies and exaggerations be in many statements that the PCs are supposed to uncover. It will make the Player feel clever they have found out so much. You could go so far as to have every single person lie and exaggerate to expose how toxic the court/relationship/estate was.

the truth is that sense motive when opposing a bluff check allows to know the other person was lying.
so if the person says "I would never bring myself to harm x" and that you succeed your sense motive you know the person did not say something they believed but it does neither say you that they hated x nor that they killed or not x just that the statement was not true in their mind.
But if you force them to say the statement "I did not kill X" and that it turns out they are lying while saying that and that you notice it with sense motive it means that they participated in killing x (either directly or indirectly)
So only a good enough sense motive and a way to force people to use a specific formulation for their lie can make you find people strongly related to the murder(ex: find someone who said lies about an individual which eventually led the people to mob that individual).

[Jack_Simth]

Well, of course you put the commune guy into a Zone of Truth and have an expert on hand who's good enough in Spellcraft to identify a spell cast in court.

You actually want Discern Lies (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/discernLies.htm), rather than Zone of Truth (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/zoneOfTruth.htm). Why? Because Zone of Truth is an area spell, and Discern Lies is targeted, and there's a clause about saving throws in the magic overview (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow):
A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells. (emphasis added).

So with Zone of Truth, you can't tell whether or not someone beat the save. With Discern Lies, you can.

[Chauncymancer]

If that is not available, it means the victim wasn't truly that important. Killing someone without ever being seen by the victim can bypass that, but there are many inescapable details that can be found.

Well hold on here. Firstly, you have to be a 5th level cleric to even cast Speak with Dead. In a small town, there might be exactly one 5th level cleric in the whole county, he can only prepare one non-domain spell per day. If 5th level clerics are more common, or you're in a bigger city, then you've probably got a 9th level cleric around who can just Raise Dead.
Also, there are two different ways to thwart Speak Dead: Dismembering the body, or casting Speak Dead first. I particularly like the second one, because it's still a clue: Our killer can cast Speak Dead.


I tend to assume that the judge himself will be the one casting commune. That way, there's no doubt in the judge's mind that the commune was cast correctly.

Are there really enough 9th level casters around to be judges though?

[Bohandas]

Well hold on here. Firstly, you have to be a 5th level cleric to even cast Speak with Dead. In a small town, there might be exactly one 5th level cleric in the whole county, he can only prepare one non-domain spell per day. If 5th level clerics are more common, or you're in a bigger city, then you've probably got a 9th level cleric around who can just Raise Dead.
Also, there are two different ways to thwart Speak Dead: Dismembering the body, or casting Speak Dead first. I particularly like the second one, because it's still a clue: Our killer can cast Speak Dead.

That only works for the first week though.

[Calthropstu]

Well hold on here. Firstly, you have to be a 5th level cleric to even cast Speak with Dead. In a small town, there might be exactly one 5th level cleric in the whole county, he can only prepare one non-domain spell per day. If 5th level clerics are more common, or you're in a bigger city, then you've probably got a 9th level cleric around who can just Raise Dead.
Also, there are two different ways to thwart Speak Dead: Dismembering the body, or casting Speak Dead first. I particularly like the second one, because it's still a clue: Our killer can cast Speak Dead.

Are there really enough 9th level casters around to be judges though?

A fair point, but if the victim was important enough to warrant a full investigation, a cleric WOULD be called for. Unless the pcs are just butting in on a normal killing in which case normal methods to evade detection apply.

But it kinda feels like the op is looking for the full d&d experience, and that means mid level cleric coming out to assist. And if the pcs get to direct the investigation...

As a special plot twist, the proposed killer in my scenario could hire a bunch of clueless rubes (the pcs) to "find the real killer and clear his name." Hoping they uncovered the domination but not the ultimate facts. Looking for someone "just good enouvh" to dupe.