Party founded a noble house what do?

[Fyxur]

SO I'm looking through stronghold rules and having a hard time figuring it out.

They bought an estate, I'm not sure how to model it but one of my players has leadership so it'll be staffed with the followers.

Can you lovely people point me to better stronghold rules or some sort of homebrew that will make it easy to run while they roam the countryside adventuring?


Thanks!

[Techwarrior]

Is there a reason to know how it works? You can just say "the estate runs fine while you're gone at the direction of your followers."

[pabelfly]

Is there a reason to know how it works? You can just say "the estate runs fine while you're gone at the direction of your followers."

This seems like a good idea IMO. Perhaps you can set a small gold cost for running the estate - taxes, staff costs, maintenance costs, etc.

If you want to make it more complex, you could have missions to expand the noble house's power and deal with possible threats. Some possible suggestions:
- quests to win the favour of somewhat powerful NPC guards to protect the noble house from threats while the players are doing other quests
- earn the rights to buy money-generating resources so the players can add to their empire - do a favour for a business owner, clear out a mine, etc.
- deal with the threat of a noble house that wants their land and resources, or just holds a grudge.
- Negotiate a political marriage or an alliance to another noble house

I'm sure you can come up with plenty more if you are interested in going in this direction.

[Tiktakkat]

Can you lovely people point me to better stronghold rules or some sort of homebrew that will make it easy to run while they roam the countryside adventuring?

There are no better stronghold rules.
For that matter, there are no good stronghold rules at all.
As for a homebrew:


Is there a reason to know how it works? You can just say "the estate runs fine while you're gone at the direction of your followers."

That.
That is the only decent set of stronghold rules out there.
Every other one is an overwhelming drain on PC wealth, player time, or both, that adds little to the function of the game.

If you, or the players, want to spend dozens of hours fiddling with spreadsheets to design a better mousetrap . . . errr, stronghold, and that is what you really enjoy, or if you really want to invest the time into setting up and running a siege of some sort, then okay, but no system adds anything functional to the routine play of the game. At most you get some extra random events table for sandbox and ad hoc random sidequest generation, and at best you might want to salvage from the PF Downtime Rules or the 3.5 Stronghold Builder's Gude are a few rooms that offer minor bonuses for crafting or give justification for training and retraining. That's it. The rest is too much accounting for too little payoff so just say no.

Which means what Techwarrior said for the maintenance - it pays for its normal maintenance by its normal operation.
If you want to expand on that, here is my homebrew random events table:

Appendix N Kingdom Builder Rules

Every month that you rule a kingdom (or otherwise have a leadership position in politics, business, or other circumstance), roll on the following table:

D% Event
01-50 Nothing happens.
51-90 Something good happens!
91-100 Something awesome happens!!!
101+ Something horrible happens!!!!!


Nothing happens. Really, nothing of note happens. You are bored overseeing the bureaucracy of your kingdom. Add +10 to next month’s roll. This is cumulative until otherwise noted.

Something good happens! A good harvest, a trade agreement, or some other event that makes your people appreciate what a good ruler you are. Despite their appreciation, you are excessively bored overseeing the bureaucracy of your kingdom. Add +10 to next month’s roll. This is cumulative until otherwise noted.

Something awesome happens!!! You have a new heir, you expand your kingdom significantly, you find a source of new wealth, or some other great event that makes your people love you for being so great. Despite the parties and celebrations, you are overwhelmingly bored overseeing the bureaucracy of your kingdom. Add +10 to next month’s roll. This is cumulative until otherwise noted.

Something horrible happens!!!!! Invasion! Famine! Plague! Bankruptcy! Whatever it is, the fate of the kingdom hangs in the balance. Of course, you are supposed to be retired.
Roll a Will Save DC 10 + character level + number of your children. You may add +1 to this roll for every +10 you added to the random event roll. You may add +1 if you are middle-aged, +2 if you are old, or +3 if you are venerable, because why should those miserable kids have all the fun!
If you fail, your spouse and advisors talk you into sending out some adventurers to take care of the problem for you. If you want, you can create 1st level PCs and the DM can run one of those intro adventures he has sitting around that he never ran before because he could never figure out how to fit it into a campaign. If you already have PCs that survived such an adventure, maybe he will let them do a slightly higher level adventure he has gathering dust somewhere. Either way, you are insanely bored overseeing the bureaucracy of your kingdom. Add +10 to next month’s roll. This is cumulative until otherwise noted.
If you succeed, your spouse and advisors fail to talk you out of getting your stuff out of storage and going on a rampage. Or maybe your spouse has been abducted and your advisors slaughtered, so there is no one to stop you from seeking revenge personally. Either way, you get to play a high level adventure. Woot! If you survive, reset all bonuses for the monthly random event roll to zero and go back to being bored overseeing the bureaucracy of your kingdom until you roll well enough to have another adventure.


And there you. That was written based on my extensive knowledge (over 100 books read!) of the stories in the legendary Appendix N. That is how all the epic heroes did things, that should be good enough for modern player characters.
Use that, handwave the rest, and stick with playing D&D, not Seneschals & Spreadsheets.

[Fizban]

SO I'm looking through stronghold rules and having a hard time figuring it out.

They bought an estate, I'm not sure how to model it but one of my players has leadership so it'll be staffed with the followers.

Can you lovely people point me to better stronghold rules or some sort of homebrew that will make it easy to run while they roam the countryside adventuring?

Thanks!
Can you be more specific about what you're having trouble with?

What do you/they want the estate to actually do?


There are no better stronghold rules.
For that matter, there are no good stronghold rules at all.
Hey, I quite like Stronghold Builder's Guidebook.

Plenty of other people like Pathfinder's systems. I've also read probably at least two different sets of old 3rd party stronghold rules. The PHB2 affiliation and even DMG2 business rules could also be used to run an "estate." It all depends on what the point of the thing is.

Every other one is an overwhelming drain on PC wealth, player time, or both, that adds little to the function of the game.
If the player is designing a stronghold, it's because they want to design a stronghold, so the initial player time investment is not a drain. PC wealth is covered by the Landlord feat, or the DM adjusting treasure over time within reason to ensure they don't fall behind on the gear they need to succeed, as is the DM's job.

no system adds anything functional to the routine play of the game. At most you get some extra random events table for sandbox and ad hoc random sidequest generation, and at best you might want to salvage from the PF Downtime Rules or the 3.5 Stronghold Builder's Gude are a few rooms that offer minor bonuses for crafting or give justification for training and retraining. That's it. The rest is too much accounting for too little payoff so just say no.
You get to design your own home base. In real life most people don't even get to dream about designing their own home. The DM can (and should) have an attack or two occur on the building when the PCs are home, giving them the satisfaction of using the defenses they planned. It gives a bonus to Leadership score, and gives a place for your followers to live and again be defended against threats.

Some people like to play characters who provide for others and have people depend on them, in a capacity greater than "point me at something I can kill." Some people just want their cool fortress design to be built "somewhere" with an amount of stats and risk and gameplay (see also: Minecraft) rather than just being a picture. And some people just want to say that their character was a Lord with a big mansion and a bunch of servants and don't need any other details.

[Fyxur]

I think I'm gonna use Pathfinder's Kingdom rules just scaled down a bit. I've got my player looking into the rules now.

The plan is to start a militia, have workshops that sell items, and really play the estate management, and political intrigue that a Noble House can open up to them.


I want to thank everyone for your quick and comprehensive responses. I was overthinking it.


Cheers!

[Tiktakkat]

Hey, I quite like Stronghold Builder's Guidebook.

I am sure you do.
I do not.


Plenty of other people like Pathfinder's systems.

I am sure they do.
I do not.


I've also read probably at least two different sets of old 3rd party stronghold rules. The PHB2 affiliation and even DMG2 business rules could also be used to run an "estate." It all depends on what the point of the thing is.

As have I.
And I find them wanting.


If the player is designing a stronghold, it's because they want to design a stronghold, so the initial player time investment is not a drain.

They may just want a stronghold, without all the design effort.


PC wealth is covered by the Landlord feat, or the DM adjusting treasure over time within reason to ensure they don't fall behind on the gear they need to succeed, as is the DM's job.

So then a feat tax, or deliberate ignoring of the WBL guidelines to account for how the costs would otherwise drain their wealth. As I said.


You get to design your own home base. In real life most people don't even get to dream about designing their own home.

Because most people are not architects.


The DM can (and should) have an attack or two occur on the building when the PCs are home, giving them the satisfaction of using the defenses they planned.

Or not, making all those defense plans wasted.
Or they are not sufficient, and everything is destroyed.
Or just needs more resources to repair.


It gives a bonus to Leadership score, and gives a place for your followers to live and again be defended against threats.

You can get a bonus without spending 50 hours poring over rules, designing dozens of followers, and worrying about having everything destroyed and losing the benefits of a feat.


Some people like to play characters who provide for others and have people depend on them, in a capacity greater than "point me at something I can kill." Some people just want their cool fortress design to be built "somewhere" with an amount of stats and risk and gameplay (see also: Minecraft) rather than just being a picture. And some people just want to say that their character was a Lord with a big mansion and a bunch of servants and don't need any other details.

Indeed.
And I was presenting the view for those who just want the title and do not need the other details.

[Raven777]

You know, I was looking at how I might have the party oversee Drezen in a Wrath of the Righteous campaign without it being a gigantic bore of minutiae and wasted potential, and the gentleman with the lizard avatar might have provided exactly what I need. For real. Much appreciated.

[Tiktakkat]

You know, I was looking at how I might have the party oversee Drezen in a Wrath of the Righteous campaign without it being a gigantic bore of minutiae and wasted potential, and the gentleman with the lizard avatar might have provided exactly what I need. For real. Much appreciated.

You are welcome. :smallsmile:

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: asked and answered.