Seeking optimized barbarian build

[stoutstien]

I'm testing out some house rules and I need some suggestions to form a baseline. I'm looking for the most tuned single class barbarian builds people can create. Rules as follow:
-all official content is allowed
-standard point buy
-Must be single class. No multiclassing.
-all buffs and effects must be supplied by yourself. No outside help.
- looking at level 5,9,13, and 17.
- number of encounters equal to number of rages.
-each encounter lasts for 4 rounds.
-the target AC will be 15
-disregard defensive capabilities. Swing for the fences.

**For GWM bonus action on kill assume one killing blow per encounter.

This is purely theoretical white room stuff that is useless for in-game evaluation but just want to see what someone could crank out in a nearly perfect scenario for a barbarian.

[quindraco]

I'm testing out some house rules and I need some suggestions to form a baseline. I'm looking for the most tuned single class barbarian builds people can create. Rules as follow:
-all official content is allowed
-standard point buy
-Must be single class. No multiclassing.
-all buffs and effects must be supplied by yourself. No outside help.
- looking at level 5,9,13, and 17.
- number of encounters equal to number of rages.
-each encounter lasts for 4 rounds.
-the target AC will be 15
-disregard defensive capabilities. Swing for the fences.

This is purely theoretical white room stuff that is useless for in-game evaluation but just want to see what someone could crank out in a nearly perfect scenario for a barbarian.

Disregard defensive capabilities on a core class that's better at defense than offense? Alright.

Ability Array: Str 15, nothing else is relevant.
Race: Tasha's Custom Lineage, since the only stat we care about is Strength. +2 Str, Darkvision, Polearm Master.
Subclass: Zealot, I guess.
L4 ASI: Great Weapon Master
L8 ASI: Slasher, Crusher, or Skill Expert (Athletics). Due to the weird constraints at hand, none of these are substantially more useful than the others.
L12 ASI: +2 Strength.
L16 ASI: Martial Adept (Menacing, Precision).

[Frogreaver]

I'm testing out some house rules and I need some suggestions to form a baseline. I'm looking for the most tuned single class barbarian builds people can create. Rules as follow:
-all official content is allowed
-standard point buy
-Must be single class. No multiclassing.
-all buffs and effects must be supplied by yourself. No outside help.
- looking at level 5,9,13, and 17.
- number of encounters equal to number of rages.
-each encounter lasts for 4 rounds.
-the target AC will be 15
-disregard defensive capabilities. Swing for the fences.

This is purely theoretical white room stuff that is useless for in-game evaluation but just want to see what someone could crank out in a nearly perfect scenario for a barbarian.

For GWM it matters if we kill the enemy. How often are we killing enemies?

[stoutstien]

For GWM it matters if we kill the enemy. How often are we killing enemies?
Let's make it fair and say you get one kill per encounter and assume it happens when it's applicable.

Originally I was going to leave it out because it gets a little complicated when dealing with criticals that occur on the first round when you're entering rage therefore irrelevant or occurring at the same time as a critical hit.

[Frogreaver]

Let's make it fair and say you get one kill per encounter and assume it happens when it's applicable.

Originally I was going to leave it out because it gets a little complicated when dealing with criticals that occur on the first round when you're entering rage therefore irrelevant or occurring at the same time as a critical hit.

I like complicated ;)

Posting on phone but preliminary calls for a 18 str greatsword variant human GWM zealot barbarian is 42.9 DPR at level 5.

Will post calc later.
30.8 from attack action
6.1 from zealot
3.9 from bonus action attack from killing enemy
2.1 from bonus action attack due to critting (only calc for 3 rounds due to rage bonus action)

[stoutstien]

I like complicated ;)
True lol. I didn't want to deal with overkill at this point. Once it gets down to 2-3 options and I see how my house rules effect the top end of the class compared to the more general build I used in testing I can fine tune the values.

[Man_Over_Game]

What's really funny about this is that the Berserker is technically the most optimized Level 5 Barbarian according to these rules.

It doesn't matter how bad you think you are, you're not going to beat 6 extra heavy weapon attacks over 2 encounters. That's better than giving a Barbarian 2 Action Surges.

[stoutstien]

What's really funny about this is that the Berserker is technically the most optimized Level 5 Barbarian according to these rules.

It doesn't matter how bad you think you are, you're not going to beat 6 extra heavy weapon attacks over 2 encounters. That's better than giving a Barbarian 2 Action Surges.

At lv5 it's fine but those exhaustion levels would add up later on. Would be interesting to see one play chicken with 3 levels of exhaustion.

[Man_Over_Game]

At lv5 it's fine but those exhaustion levels would add up later on. Would be interesting to see one play chicken with 3 levels of exhaustion.

Sure, but I just meant to base that off of the restrictions mentioned. I still would not recommend Berserker to anyone without a number of houserules.

Personally, I'd just erase the darn thing and make a Berserker from scratch. Everyone and their mother has bonus attacks nowadays, it's not special anymore.

[Frogreaver]

What's really funny about this is that the Berserker is technically the most optimized Level 5 Barbarian according to these rules.

It doesn't matter how bad you think you are, you're not going to beat 6 extra heavy weapon attacks over 2 encounters. That's better than giving a Barbarian 2 Action Surges.

In a 3 rage/3 encounter day where each encounter lasts 4 rounds that means 12 rounds of attacks.

At level 5 the 6 attacks amounts to 7.7 DPR vs the zealots 6.1. However this also reduces the damage from GWM by 2.6 and also the crit bonus action attack damage by 1.4. This should leave the zealot barbarian with GWM still ahead at level 5.

[Man_Over_Game]

In a 3 rage/3 encounter day where each encounter lasts 4 rounds that means 12 rounds of attacks.

At level 5 the 6 attacks amounts to 7.7 DPR vs the zealots 6.1. However this also reduces the damage from GWM by 2.6 and also the crit bonus action attack damage by 1.4. This should leave the zealot barbarian with GWM still ahead at level 5.

Whoops, for some reason I thought Barbarians didn't get more rages until level 6. Was looking at proficiency...derp. Limiting the Beserker to 2 fights a day was important, but now that I realize the error, they're still useless in a whiteroom contest like this.

[Dork_Forge]

I'd have to opt for a Beast Barbarian (V. Human, Dual Wielder) using a longsword (Handaxe if you want versatility) and their claws. Assuming you allow TWF to work with claws (I think you do from past threads but can't be sure) it yields a high accuracy, high DPR build with reduced risk of overkill.

As the damage of some Barbarians may taper somewhat, this build gives you decent scaling to say the least:

-You attack a lot, which means you have more chance to capitalise on Brutal Critical

-10th level gives you Infectious Fury which you can use as a Smite-like feature

-Once Str is maxed out you can take Fighting Initiate for TWF style and add +5 onto your bonus attack

[stoutstien]

I'd have to opt for a Beast Barbarian (V. Human, Dual Wielder) using a longsword (Handaxe if you want versatility) and their claws. Assuming you allow TWF to work with claws (I think you do from past threads but can't be sure) it yields a high accuracy, high DPR build with reduced risk of overkill.

As the damage of some Barbarians may taper somewhat, this build gives you decent scaling to say the least:

-You attack a lot, which means you have more chance to capitalise on Brutal Critical

-10th level gives you Infectious Fury which you can use as a Smite-like feature

-Once Str is maxed out you can take Fighting Initiate for TWF style and add +5 onto your bonus attack

I'd say with the feat the claws are eligible for twf. I'm toying with the idea of adding the light tag to the class feature.

[Dork_Forge]

I'd say with the feat the claws are eligible for twf. I'm toying with the idea of adding the light tag to the class feature.

Personally I wouldn't, it's a fine subclass and making TWF work out of the box is a pretty significant damage buff. What core class changes were you considering?

[stoutstien]

Personally I wouldn't, it's a fine subclass and making TWF work out of the box is a pretty significant damage buff. What core class changes were you considering?
Rough draft is setting with adding a feature at lv 6 to allow entering rage on a critical hit without expended a rage usage and adding expanding critical range at 9 and 17.

[loki_ragnarock]

Mostly trying to work out the thought process, so this is very top of headish:

Scourge Aasimar Storm Herald. Desert or Sea? Desert can add more damage as a reaction at later levels, does slightly better round to round damage to more potentially more creatures, but the damage type is crap. Sea gets a bonus action attack that deals 1-6 to 4d6 on a slower pace of advancement to a single target, but the damage type is better. Hmm... in either case, sentinel helps to keep them in the aura with a potential lockdown, so that's probably the feat of choice. Tasha's moves cha bonus to strength.

Lets assume desert, because you can game the raw numbers higher assuming an ideal case scenario; damage dealt is multiplied by the number of enemies that can fit within the aura, much like the scourge power.

So round one, get into position move, action super sayayin, bonus action pop rage. At 5th level that's (3 from desert rage + 3 from Aasimar super) x opponents. One opponent will likely try to move out of the auras, provoking an opportunity attack even if they try to disengage; one weapon attack with +5 damage. Following round has actual attacks, so two attacks with, one with +5 damage, probably similar aura damage per round, depending.
So anywhere from 1-24 creatures can fit in the defined area, aura damage ranges from 6 - 144 damage a round, and then you add attacks.

So in the highly unlikely and entirely unlikely scenario where this would go for four rounds with 24 creatures in the area of effect, you'd be pushing out 576 in aura damage before factoring in any weapon attacks. Ongoing damage from the Scourge self harm effect (which you hilariously have resistance to) means rage will not go down early.

Less damage on the following two battles, but everyone else has a bunch of catching up to do after that.

Super white room ridiculous answer at 5th level:
Scourge Aasimar Storm Herald (Desert)

9th level ((3+5) x24)x4 = 768
13th ((4+7)x24)x4 = 1056
17th ((5+8)x24)x4 = 1248

White room supports Aasimar Storm Herald.

EDIT
Er 5th has two more combats doing (3x24)4, 9 has three more combats doing the same, 13th has 4 more combats doing (4x24)4, and 17 has 5 more combats doing (5x24)4.
Or 576, 864, 1536, and 2400 aura damage for all the remaining encounters.

[nathanv]

Fighting initiate, at the level of a "free" feat for VH where we're talking 24 rounds, up to 72 attacks, should beat almost any n/short rest abilities and halfling luck. If we let aasimar/protector work through multiple encounters, aasimar is probably better at the levels we're talking about. If not, fighting initiate should be better.

Some out-of-the-box thoughts:

1) Armor of Agathys (Levistus tiefling) as a 2nd lvl cast can add up to a lot of free damage over 4x6 rounds, but kind of impossible to calculate from info given. Can likely be precast. Don't forget rage DR, which can reduce 1 point of damage to zilch; with multiattack 1 damage, this is unbounded.
2) Piercer isn't enough to make a pike worth it over a maul, but is enough to make a lance worth it until you get PAM. But I suspect PAM is more important to most builds than +1 str.