Assassin's Dagger and Bracers of Murder pricing

[Biggus]

So I was looking at the prices of those two items, and it became clear that WotC drastically changed their opinion of the value of bonuses to death attack DC over the course of 3.5:

Assassin's Dagger (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#assassinsDagger) costs 10,000GP more than a standard +2 dagger, and increases the save DC of death attacks by 1

Bracers of Murder (DotU p.98) cost 8,000GP and increase the save DC of death attacks by 2, and allow you to reroll 1's on sneak attack dice, AND give you a +2 profane (ie stacks with almost everything) bonus to attack and damage against flat-footed opponents

Clearly the Assassin's Dagger is way overpriced. The Bracers seem closer to a fair price, but if anything they seem to go the other way and be perhaps a bit too cheap.

What do you think would be a fair price for these items?

[Telonius]

For the Dagger, adding +1 to a DC would be like a spellcaster getting +2 to its casting stat on a Save or Die spell (making the DC of the spells higher); but not nearly as useful. It's a very situational bonus, takes a long time to set up the attack, lots of things are flat-out immune to it, and it doesn't give you any of the other perks that an ability bump would give. Getting +2 to an ability would add 4000gp to the price. Given all the caveats, I'd say that a flat +1000gp over the cost of a regular +2 weapon seems pretty fair.

[BaronDoctor]

Reroll 1s on sa dice is usually not more than about 3 extra damage on a sneak attack. It's a +1 ability at best so call it 2k. Limited extra DC, maybe 2k? Limited +2 damage bonus, maybe another 4k?

If anything the bracers are right and the dagger should be a +1k property.

[Quentinas]

I think tthe rerolling of 1 on the sneak attack should be more as it has the same effect of a feat (deadly precision expanded psionic handbook) and the other 2 bonuses can be useful so I think around 13k or 14k . For the dagger around 9k or 10k I think could be a good price

[Starbuck_II]

So I was looking at the prices of those two items, and it became clear that WotC drastically changed their opinion of the value of bonuses to death attack DC over the course of 3.5:

Assassin's Dagger (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#assassinsDagger) costs 10,000GP more than a standard +2 dagger, and increases the save DC of death attacks by 1

Bracers of Murder (DotU p.98) cost 8,000GP and increase the save DC of death attacks by 2, and allow you to reroll 1's on sneak attack dice, AND give you a +2 profane (ie stacks with almost everything) bonus to attack and damage against flat-footed opponents

Clearly the Assassin's Dagger is way overpriced. The Bracers seem closer to a fair price, but if anything they seem to go the other way and be perhaps a bit too cheap.

What do you think would be a fair price for these items?

Weapons aren't the correct slot to add Death Attack Bracers are.
Remember, where you add the ability is just as important.
They made a table.

However, they still gave bracers way too much abilities.

[Biggus]

For the Dagger, adding +1 to a DC would be like a spellcaster getting +2 to its casting stat on a Save or Die spell (making the DC of the spells higher); but not nearly as useful. It's a very situational bonus, takes a long time to set up the attack, lots of things are flat-out immune to it, and it doesn't give you any of the other perks that an ability bump would give. Getting +2 to an ability would add 4000gp to the price. Given all the caveats, I'd say that a flat +1000gp over the cost of a regular +2 weapon seems pretty fair.

I wasn't thinking of reducing it that much but I can't fault your logic. Not worth more than 2000GP at the maximum.


Reroll 1s on sa dice is usually not more than about 3 extra damage on a sneak attack. It's a +1 ability at best so call it 2k. Limited extra DC, maybe 2k? Limited +2 damage bonus, maybe another 4k?

If anything the bracers are right and the dagger should be a +1k property.


I think tthe rerolling of 1 on the sneak attack should be more as it has the same effect of a feat (deadly precision expanded psionic handbook) and the other 2 bonuses can be useful so I think around 13k or 14k . For the dagger around 9k or 10k I think could be a good price

I thought about the deadly precision feat, it seems to be considered a pretty weak one though so I thought probably 4-5K for that. If the +1 extra DC is worth 1K presumably +2 would be 4K since most prices increase as the bonus squared. I agree 4K sounds about right for the damage bonus when flat footed. So that comes out at about 12-13K, which feels about right to me.


Weapons aren't the correct slot to add Death Attack Bracers are.
Remember, where you add the ability is just as important.
They made a table.

However, they still gave bracers way too much abilities.

I presume you mean the Body Slot Affinities table on p.288 of the DMG? If so, I don't see how you can say that weapons are the wrong slot, as weapons don't appear on the table, and weapons in general have a wide range of different special abilities.

[sreservoir]

Rerolling 1s for damage is a pretty small effect. Depending on whether you interpret it as rerolling each 1 once (as Deadly Precision), or until you get a non-1 roll on each die, that ability is +5/12 or +1/2 point of average damage per sneak attack die. A lesser weapon crystal of energy assault does better for a long time at 3k.

[Biggus]

Rerolling 1s for damage is a pretty small effect. Depending on whether you interpret it as rerolling each 1 once (as Deadly Precision), or until you get a non-1 roll on each die, that ability is +5/12 or +1/2 point of average damage per sneak attack die. A lesser weapon crystal of energy assault does better for a long time at 3k.

Hmm, fair point. 2-3K for the reroll effect then.

Anyone else have an opinion on the value of the bonuses against flat-footed opponents?

[RNightstalker]

Hmm, fair point. 2-3K for the reroll effect then.

Anyone else have an opinion on the value of the bonuses against flat-footed opponents?

I would imagine that since it's only against flat-footed opponents, it wouldn't be as valuable as a flat bonus. It reminds me of what qualifies for cost reduction in the DMG.