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Gelcur
2021-06-09, 10:05 PM
*So as to not to get derailed, in this campaign Dragonwrought Kobolds are true dragons. I'm the DM this is an NPC.*

So I'm trying to make a Dracolich Xorvintaal Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold Dragonfire Adept/Marshal. But I've run into some rules questions.

Dracolich is oddly worded
1) Do the class HDs turn into d12s? What about future class HDs?

2) Dragons gain a +2 to appraise, is this lost since it would no longer be a dragon? The kobold and Dragonwrought skill and ability bonuses still apply, I think.

3) Metabreath feats require Con prerequisites, this would normally mean the feat would become unusable if the character no longer qualified. Is this true with Dracolich? Or would it just not be able to gain new metabreath feats without "Breath of Unlife" feat?

4) Kobolds have a +1 Nat AC, DFA Scales ability grants up to +5 but states if you already have Nat AC use the higher of the two, Dracolich adds an additional +2 Nat AC. So if I'm at 2 levels DFA it's a +2 Nat AC (ignoring the kobold +1), if I then take Dracolich will it make it +4? Or does it apply to the kobold ac making it +3, I'm guessing I can choose where to put it. Futher if I apply it to the DFA Nat AC, does the it go up to +5 if I later hit DFA level 8?

5) Does the character gain SR16 when it gains Dracolich or does the Xorvintaal template wording prevent regaining SR in the future?

Normally I like to think I'm good with 3.5 rules and can mull them out but this template seems vague.

Thanks.

Soranar
2021-06-09, 11:26 PM
*So as to not to get derailed, in this campaign Dragonwrought Kobolds are true dragons. I'm the DM this is an NPC.*

So I'm trying to make a Dracolich Xorvintaal Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold Dragonfire Adept/Marshal. But I've run into some rules questions.

Dracolich is oddly worded
1) Do the class HDs turn into d12s? What about future class HDs?


2) Dragons gain a +2 to appraise, is this lost since it would no longer be a dragon? The kobold and Dragonwrought skill and ability bonuses still apply, I think.

3) Metabreath feats require Con prerequisites, this would normally mean the feat would become unusable if the character no longer qualified. Is this true with Dracolich? Or would it just not be able to gain new metabreath feats without "Breath of Unlife" feat?

4) Kobolds have a +1 Nat AC, DFA Scales ability grants up to +5 but states if you already have Nat AC use the higher of the two, Dracolich adds an additional +2 Nat AC. So if I'm at 2 levels DFA it's a +2 Nat AC (ignoring the kobold +1), if I then take Dracolich will it make it +4? Or does it apply to the kobold ac making it +3, I'm guessing I can choose where to put it. Futher if I apply it to the DFA Nat AC, does the it go up to +5 if I later hit DFA level 8?

5) Does the character gain SR16 when it gains Dracolich or does the Xorvintaal template wording prevent regaining SR in the future?

Normally I like to think I'm good with 3.5 rules and can mull them out but this template seems vague.

Thanks.

1) Yes, all class HD becomes d12 just like any other undead (like say necropolitan)

2) a bonus from your type is lost (dragon's appraise) but a bonus from your race or age category is not

3) as stated in breath of unlife, if you're undead you can't take metabreath feats unless you take that feat (since you no longer have a CON score)

4) natural armor does not stack unless stated otherwise. Dracolich is not natural armor 2, it's natural armor +2 so it does stack. DFA natural armor does not stack so, as stated in the class, you use whatever is higher then you add the dracolich's +2

5) I can't seem to find xorvintaal online (is it a template?), someone else will need to check that out sorry

Bayar
2021-06-10, 12:56 AM
It's a dragon template from MM4 i believe.

Bohandas
2021-06-10, 01:35 AM
I'm not seeing +2 to appraise in the dragon type description in the SRD

DragonIceAdept
2021-06-10, 01:39 AM
5) I can't seem to find xorvintaal online (is it a template?), someone else will need to check that out sorry

Xorvintaal is from MM5, it removes spellcasting for various other benefits.

Gelcur
2021-06-10, 06:53 AM
5) I can't seem to find xorvintaal online (is it a template?), someone else will need to check that out sorry
Thank you for the answers. Xorvintaal Dragon template can be found in Monster Manual 5 p. 43. Relavent text:
"Spell Resistance: Xorvintaal dragons do not have spell resistance."


I'm not seeing +2 to appraise in the dragon type description in the SRD
Draconomicon p.28 sidebar, added this to all dragons.

Soranar
2021-06-10, 06:48 PM
Found the relevant text

Ok that's going to be up to interpretation but it comes down to this

if you lost something and it can't be gained again, it would say something like this: a xorvintaal dragon loses his spell resistance and can never gain spell resistance from any source

instead it says : a xorvintaal dragon does not have spell resistance

if I interpret the ''rule as intended'' the author probably just wanted you to lose your normal dragon spell resistance, meaning other sources of it could be allowed

unfortunately I could see the argument going in the opposing direction too if you go with Rules as Written, it's a bad choice of words

but a dracolich also states: a dracolich has 16 SR minimum

in this case I'd just go with the order I applied the templates : you lose it with xorvintaal first but you gain SR 16 from becoming a dracolich afterwards

since both templates directly contradict one another (and neither situation prevent you from applying the template) I would rule dracolich overrides xorvintaal