1e Warpriest, Spartan ideas.

[Tindragon]

Haven't played in over a year now. Be 18 months once we start. Have a great GM, and for now only 1 or 2 other players (up to 5 allowed - but don't know yet).

Campaign rules (so far, and agreed too) :


Pathfinder, Paizo core rules (must be Paizo, no 3rd party or OGL).
Epic Fantasy: 25 points
You start at level 5. Level advancement is similar to PF society rules, modified.
All house rules will be voted on before play starts and not change throughout the game unless a unanimous vote is taken.
Your character will start with all the adventuring gear needed. No magic items starting play. Remember that this is the Bronze age, so all of your gear needs to be period-appropriate. No full suits of European armor exist. Don't worry, other races and cultures will have more technologically advanced equipment and you can find that during RP and the story.
Magic: The world is full of magic and wonder, but permanent magic is rare and outrageously expensive and costs life energy. This will start as a magic low campaign and the gods will give the heroes what they need, so don't ask about magic shops. They don't exist. Likewise, there is no magic crafting other than one-shot items/scrolls/potions etc. Don't waste the feat.
No leadership feat, sorry.
All core and expanded races/classes are in play. This will be a darker more realistic feel, so townsfolk will rally and slay the PC monitor/drow/1/2 demon/tiefling/kenku/goblin/etc.
The setting will be ancient Greece. The pantheon will be the same and traditional. Clerics and domain-dependent characters will need some help adapting to PF rules. I have most of that and will give that to those who need it.
Max HPs 1st-3rd average 4th on.

So, I am going human, Warpriest. Locked in there. To keep with what I am reading on historical Spartan/ Lakonian culture, they worshipped Ares, Artemis and Apollo.

I do NOT yet have all the information on the pantheon/domain mechanics. GM working it up still. I am leaning Ares if there is no alignment issues. I have found 2 WP Guides I like, with great information.

so far, with point build, and human +2 attribute, my stats:
Human, CN (good leaning) Warpriest of Ares. [War and ?] I need to look into blessings more.

Ares (CN): God of war, combat, and arms.
Domains: Chaos, Courage, Destruction, Glory, Madness, Pride, Strength, War, Wrath.

Str: 16
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 16 +2=18
Cha: 7
Human add +2 wisdom at 1st. (still adjustable)
Level 4 and beyond attributes = STR

Still fielding the numbers for the +2 human being Wisdom or Str. I am a fan of +1 class ability use, and +1 will save, sense motive et al.

Then, we get 2 traits, and can take 1 drawback for a 3rd. Here is where I am on that.

Drawback:

Scarred
An injury left you horribly, visibly scarred, making it more difficult for you to hide your true face, and also making most people distrustful of you merely due to your appearance.
Effect You take a –5 penalty on Disguise checks and a –2 penalty on Bluff checks.

I am going to RP/story board this into his history that (as a WP to Ares) he/his father (also a cleric/wp/fanatic warrior to Ares) was 'cursed' by a similar of Haephestus, and that the fulfillment of that was the PC was burned in a smithy dedicated to Aphrodite's hubby (likely just a kid being wrong place wrong time anyway, but belief being it was the curse/retribution) So that agrees with his Chr. and subsequent interactions.

Traits
Reactionary (yes)
You were bullied often as a child, but never quite developed an offensive response. Instead, you became adept at anticipating sudden attacks and reacting to danger quickly.
Benefit: You gain a +2 trait bonus on initiative checks.

Regional
Ancestral Weapon {DM okayed silver Scimitar}
You have inherited a sacred tribal weapon wielded by your forebears, and you were trained in its use from a young age.
Benefit(s) Select either cold iron or silver. You begin play with a masterwork melee weapon made of the material of your choice. You must be proficient with this weapon, and its combined cost cannot exceed 500 gp.
You gain a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls with weapons made of the selected material.


Fate’s Favored
The fates watch over you.
Benefit: Whenever you are under the effect of a luck bonus of any kind, that bonus increases by 1.


Feats: He gets plenty, as he will be played like a front line phalanx warrior.


Feats, as a human WP, again, should have plenty of combat feats. I am open to suggestion, I see a lot of room here. Thoughts as of now.

Remember, the build is period based Grecian - Spartan build.
(varied spears/short sword/ scimitar) and a big round bronze shield (heavy I assume). Bronze breastplate (hopefully pull MW to loose the 'fragile' quality).
Since we are starting at 5th level, Sacred Weapon makes base damage die d8 till 10th, becomes d10...

1WP - Focus Weapon [deities favored spear then take Short Sword as well)

1h- Improved Initiative
1- Weapon focus Scimitar
3- Endurance
3b- Diehard
5- Weapon Specialization Scimitar
6b- Vital Strike
6bh- Lunge** <--- I think this is a lock
7- Quicken Blessing
9- Heroic Defiance
9b- Improved Critical - Scimitar
11- Divine Interference
12b- Improved Vital Strike
12bh- Greater Weapon Focus Scimitar
13- Greater Weapon Specialization Scimitar
15- Crippling Critical**
15b- Power Attack**
17- Greater Vital Strike
18b- Cleave**
18bh- Great Cleave**
19-

Ah EDIT. Human favored class =Gain 1/6 of a new bonus combat feat. So another human bonus feat at 6, 12 and 18. 3 more feats.

I am hoping we get to start with MW bronze armor and weapons. And really hoping to get ancestral weapon okayed one way or another...

Again, sticking with the Spartan warrior style, adding in scimitar (it fits period and totally plausible for a spartan to have gotten one fighting Persians or even buy it outright) I am thinking this could be a good overall front line fighter, self buffer emergency healer.

Hope to get answers to deity/domains soon(TM).

Any other suggestions? Feat swaps?

I just think with a 'low magic' campaign the extra damage and such will be a must from the feats. But please, change my mind if you think they are used better elsewise.

Any awesome spell suggestions ( I mean, other than the obvious buffs per any great cleric?)

Thanks.

[Kurald Galain]

Str: 16
Since you're a melee fighter, go str over wis. And all bonuses to sr.


3- Endurance
3b- Diehard
These aren't very good feats. And frankly neither is the Vital Strike line. Also, check the Magus guide in my sig; a lot of the feats and items in there apply to warpriests just as well.

[Psyren]

1) You're going with a melee build so all your points should go to strength. Otherwise you'll get crushed at high levels. 18 Wis is more than enough for a 2/3 casting gish, in fact I would consider putting your human bonus into Str and leaving Wis at 16.

2) What blessing(s) are you going for? Your character worships Ares so I assume War but it's not stated.

2) Why the Vital Strike line? It's not particularly good. I would go for more useful feats like Power Attack, Lunge, Cleave etc before I went anywhere near VS.

[Tindragon]

Just edited "Gain 1/6 of a new bonus combat feat." for humans favored WP class.

I have plenty of feats. Vital, because I am limited in BAB, with all the extra feats this class gets, and as a human, I can take them, and in need use Vital strikes, with improved crit Scimitar doing d10 or more base damage... a single big strike with a solid crit chance vs attempting multiple strikes and potentially missing the last 1 anyway.

With 2/3 BAB, I didn't want to try Power attack early, I believe vital strike to be a better option early, and with the open feat slots later (and 1 at 6, 12 and 18 not used yet) I can still take PA, Lunge and Cleave. Just not early.

Again, if they campaign is very set low magic, and perm items being dolled out slowly and sparingly, I am trying to stick to the 'Spartan' way in more than 1. Not rely on items at all.

As far as Endurance and Die hard being weak, Endurance I agree. Not so good. However, pre req to Die Hard, which could save my butt now and again, and is the 2nd pre req for Heroic Defiance which at that level, I assume magic and magical creatures (Medusa and others) that feat could save my bacon, and give me a round to counter or at least escape, get help etc...

I have swayed back and forth on STR v Wis. The only reason I thought to get 18 W early, was the extra use of class abilities. 1 more early, vs +1h/d early... I am not locked, just how I typed it up so far.

+1 will save always nice as well.

I appreciate the feed back thus far. If you think the feat tree is gonna crippling, show me how you'd build it! Please!

[Kurald Galain]

As far as Endurance and Die hard being weak, Endurance I agree. Not so good. However, pre req to Die Hard, which could save my butt now and again, and is the 2nd pre req for Heroic Defiance
Heroic Defiance requires level 12 though, and it's... not great. I'd recommend Wanderer's Fortune instead.

The problem with Diehard is the same as with the half-orc racial ability: staying active at negative HP gives monsters an incentive to hit you again, which will liikely kill you. If you fall unconscious, most enemies will instead move to the next target. A feat like Toughness is actually better (and still not great).

[Psyren]

Warpriest's BAB doesn't matter (especially at low levels where the difference between full BAB and 3/4 BAB is 1-2 points at most - it doesn't even become a 3 point difference until you hit 9th level). Between Sacred Weapon + War Blessing you will be on par with if not ahead of a full BAB class early on, especially in a low-magic campaign like this one. And at higher levels you will easily pull ahead due to swift action self-buffs.

As for Vital Strike - it's a bad feat because (a) it only works when you're playing poorly i.e. not doing everything you can to full-attack, (b) even in situations where you can't full-attack it's not much better than a single swing because it only adds your Strength once, and (c) you're setting feats on fire that you have much better options for. You've incorporated some of my suggestions into the opening post but there are others, like picking a relevant combat maneuver to invest in (e.g. Trip) and a combat style that can further boost your effectiveness in melee. Alternatively, you could add a second combat to your repertoire, like thrown weapons, giving you options when melee isn't a good idea. Any of these would be better than the Vital Strike line.

What domains does Ares grant in your campaign? You may have a good choice for second blessing there. Alternatively, you can trade your second blessing away for a Divine Fighting Technique, or the Arsenal Chaplain archetype to be even more combat-focused (this will also qualify you for Advanced Weapon Training options.)

[Tindragon]

As for Vital Strike - it's a bad feat because (a) it only works when you're playing poorly i.e. not doing everything you can to full-attack, (b) even in situations where you can't full-attack it's not much better than a single swing because it only adds your Strength once, and (c) you're setting feats on fire that you have much better options for. You've incorporated some of my suggestions into the opening post but there are others, like picking a relevant combat maneuver to invest in (e.g. Trip) and a combat style that can further boost your effectiveness in melee. Alternatively, you could add a second combat to your repertoire, like thrown weapons, giving you options when melee isn't a good idea. Any of these would be better than the Vital Strike line.

What domains does Ares grant in your campaign? You may have a good choice for second blessing there. Alternatively, you can trade your second blessing away for a Divine Fighting Technique, or the Arsenal Chaplain archetype to be even more combat-focused (this will also qualify you for Advanced Weapon Training options.)

Domains are listed in the spoiler.

War is the obvious 1st choice. Beyond that I haven't begun to study them out. There are several to choose from.

I am not familiar with WP, just using it for the 1st time.

I am going to keep this as close to period Spartan as I can, I don't think thrown weapons, other than spears, would fit that.

Can you show me an alternate feat path then?

The reason I went with vital strike, was the 2 WP guides I found, one SWEARS VS is a MUST, the other lists it and above average.

Folks I am willing to take this all in, but, I can't take the time to study and figure our 15 new feat trees, throw me a bone, if you have an obviously superior one, throw it in here for me please. I just want it to focus on keeping within the Grecian/period styles we are supposed to stick too. I know I can build a hell of a wizard who dresses the right way, and likely dominate a low magic, I've done that enough times. Want to do something new. And there are just too damn many feats/feat options for me to learn this in my free time before we start.

[vasilidor]

Vital strike can be a good thing, but you have to build into it for it to be really worth while. trying to get full attack in pathfinder is often difficult and this is by design. Pounce and related abilities are often gated by various hoops to jump through and Vital strike is the easy to grab consolation prize. As a human war priest many of the roads to getting pounce are closed to you as long as you do not multiclass or remain human. you do not meet the requirements for vital strike until level 8 and cannot take it until level 9 where you get a regular feat and a bonus feat. now when vital strike comes online, if you are using a spear for your favored weapon you would have 2d8+5 for damage and a +11 to hit baseline when using it. throw in power attack and this becomes 2d8+9 with an attack bonus of +9. if you are facing other gear dependent opponents then vital strike is not going to come into play all that often because the winning strategy for them is also going to be standing in the face of the enemy and full attacking every round. it should also be noted that with Paizo only books, uber-charge builds are not going to be as effective. Paizo does not like Martial characters, nor does WOTC for that matter.

as a spell caster you have options to enhance your parties effectiveness overall. mostly by hindering your enemies as most cleric buff spells really only help the cleric or are rather lackluster unless you are working with a larger group with notable exceptions like communal resist energy, or by summoning monsters to act as speedbumps or extra bodies. a hit a summoned monster takes is one your buddies do not and having them spend time dealing with it can cost an enemy up to 30 points of potential damage at level 5 when you consider action economy. (3 things to consider with monster summoning: positioning, purpose and action economy)

[Kitsuneymg]

Ask if you can port over the Arsenal Chaplain archetype. It requires war blessing and drops your scaling damage and second blessing. In return, it gives you Weapon Training as a fighter, but only with your sacred weapons, and a better war blessing. Trade your weapon training at 9, 13, and 17 away for advanced weapon training, one of which can return your scaling weapon damage if you really want it. Duelist Gloves will help a lot too if your GM makes them available. Barroom Brawler feat with the advanced weapon training option abundant tactics will give you the ability to grab a feat you need at a moments notice.

Check out the weapon of the chosen feat line. If you can swing the three feats, the cap stone gives advantage on one attack/round. If you’re vital striking, that seems pretty good. In a low magic game, even the first two feats may be useful if you ever fight ghosts and the like.

[Maat Mons]

I'm not familiar enough with Pathfinder to know if this is good or not, but it's thematic, so I'll mention it. The Shield Brace (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/shield-mastery-feats/shield-brace-combat-shield-mastery/) feat lets you use a shield while also wielding a spear or polearm. PFSRD says it's from a book called Pathfinder Player Companion: Armor Master’s Handbook, which it also says is published by Piazo.

This, too, might not be a good idea, but if you're using a longspear in one hand, and a light or heavy shield in the other, you could use shield bash attacks to hit adjacent enemies, and the longspear to hit enemies 5 feet away. I'm not sure about Pathfinder, but in 3.5 this could be done without invoking the two-weapon fighting rules. You'd just make your normal number of attacks, no extra ones from two-weapon fighting, but some of those attacks would be with one weapon, and some with the other.

Do you know if the DM is using the Automatic Bonus Progression (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/automatic-bonus-progression/) rules? If he's limiting access to magic items, it could really help keep your numbers around where the game expects them to be for your level.

Edit: More possibly-bad advice, this time aimed at gear.

Bronze-Tipped, Darkwood-Hafted Longspear: 395 gp (5 gp base + 300 gp masterwork + 9 lbs * 10 gp/lb darkwood)
Darkwood Heavy Shield: 307 gp (7 gp base + 150 gp masterwork + 15 lbs * 10 gp/lb darkwood)
Masterwork Bronze Breastplate: 350 gp (200 gp base + 150 gp)

Yeah, I know, making the haft of the spear out of darkwood costs 90 gp more than just having a masterwork spear. But as an elite warrior, it's important to make your equipment out of the finest materials, so you can lord it over lesser warriors. If you show up to a battle with a spear made out of a type of wood that clashes with the type of wood your shield is made of, just think what people would say!

The darkwood shield is actually very imortant if you go with the Shield Brace feat, because you really want that armor check penalty to be down to zero. Don't know why they thought the feat needed a clause that punishes you for the shield's armor check penalty. But at least it's easy enough to negate.

[Kitsuneymg]

I'm not familiar enough with Pathfinder to know if this is good or not, but it's thematic, so I'll mention it. The Shield Brace (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/shield-mastery-feats/shield-brace-combat-shield-mastery/) feat lets you use a shield while also wielding a spear or polearm. PFSRD says it's from a book called Pathfinder Player Companion: Armor Master’s Handbook, which it also says is published by Piazo.

Without having armor training, all the shield mastery feats require shield focus as a prerequisite. But, if you have nothing more to do with your bonus feats, a warpriest could easily take that.

Phalanx Soldier fighter (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo-fighter-archetypes/phalanx-soldier/) does the shield/spear thing as well, and without a penalty at level 3. It’s not considered great since you lose weapon training(and thus access to advanced weapon training options), but if you’re not worried about that, then it does what is says.

You could do phalanx soldier 3/Arsenal chaplain+ too.

[Tindragon]

Vital strike .... you do not meet the requirements for vital strike until level 8 and cannot take it until level 9 where you get a regular feat and a bonus feat. now when vital strike comes online, if you are using a spear for your favored weapon you would have 2d8+5 for damage and a +11 to hit baseline when using it. throw in power attack and this becomes 2d8+9 with an attack bonus of +9. if you are facing other gear dependent opponents then vital strike is not going to come into play all that often because the winning strategy for them is also going to be standing in the face of the enemy and full attacking every round. it should also be noted that with Paizo only books, uber-charge builds are not going to be as effective. Paizo does not like Martial characters, nor does WOTC for that matter.




Bonus Feats
At 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, a warpriest gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement. These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats. The warpriest must meet the prerequisites for these feats, but he treats his warpriest level as his base attack bonus (in addition to base attack bonuses gained from other classes and Hit Dice) for the purpose of qualifying for these feats.

Finally, for the purposes of these feats, the warpriest can select feats that have a minimum number of fighter levels as a prerequisite, treating his warpriest level as his fighter level.

VS at 6th, taking scimitar as a sacred weapon, improved crit, cleric buffs... Then later when I am casting SWIFT Channel Vigor for haste... I likely won't use VS so much.