Tasha's: Steady Aim question?

[Nikushimi]

Hey there, just a relatively simple question.

Steady aim states "As a bonus action, you give yourself advantage on
your next attack roll on the current turn. You can
use this bonus action only if you haven't moved
during this turn, and after you use the bonus action,
your speed is 0 until the end of the current turn."

Pretty straight forward for the most part, but where I have the question at is in the "until the end of the current turn."

Whose turn? Your turn? All turns?

If they mean until everyone has gone, then why not just say "Until the start of your next turn" instead of "Until the end of the current turn."

You can't exactly move on anyone elses turn.

Like if the order of initiative was

Monster 19
Bard 17
Fighter 13
Rogue 10 (I know, ****ty initiative for a Rogue, but bear with me).

Technically, the end of the current turn is when the Rogue is done, does that mean they move then, or they have to wait until all the others go and then they have movement again? So, again, why not just say "until the start of your next turn"? Or am I missing something?

Thanks for the replies. This is a rather simple question, but I had to explain a bit of my thought process for it. Just makes more sense to say "Until the start of your next turn." unless you are able to "hold" your move action until the end of the entire turn? Just seems weird.

As anyone else thought of this or is this just me that's confused by it.

[Gruchul]

Whose turn? Your turn? All turns?

If they mean until everyone has gone, then why not just say "Until the start of your next turn" instead of "Until the end of the current turn."

You can't exactly move on anyone elses turn.



It means your turn. Everyone's turn collectively would be referred to as a round. There are a few things which would allow you to move on another person's turn, such as the scout's skirmisher ability, which steady aim does not prevent.

[Reynaert]

Hey there, just a relatively simple question.

Steady aim states "As a bonus action, you give yourself advantage on
your next attack roll on the current turn. You can
use this bonus action only if you haven't moved
during this turn, and after you use the bonus action,
your speed is 0 until the end of the current turn."

Pretty straight forward for the most part, but where I have the question at is in the "until the end of the current turn."

Whose turn? Your turn? All turns?

If they mean until everyone has gone, then why not just say "Until the start of your next turn" instead of "Until the end of the current turn."

You can't exactly move on anyone elses turn.

Like if the order of initiative was

Monster 19
Bard 17
Fighter 13
Rogue 10 (I know, ****ty initiative for a Rogue, but bear with me).

Technically, the end of the current turn is when the Rogue is done, does that mean they move then, or they have to wait until all the others go and then they have movement again? So, again, why not just say "until the start of your next turn"? Or am I missing something?

Thanks for the replies. This is a rather simple question, but I had to explain a bit of my thought process for it. Just makes more sense to say "Until the start of your next turn." unless you are able to "hold" your move action until the end of the entire turn? Just seems weird.

As anyone else thought of this or is this just me that's confused by it.

It's probably a language thing, I guess English isn't your native tongue?

A turn is one player taking their actions. As soon as it's someone else's go, it's their turn, i.e. a new turn. So the current turn is your turn only.
The word for what you're calling a turn in your example is 'round'. A round is each player and npc taking a turn.

[Cikomyr2]

It's your turn. This means if someone gives you a reaction where "you can move your movement" or "you have to use your movement", you can still do it

[Nikushimi]

It's probably a language thing, I guess English isn't your native tongue?

A turn is one player taking their actions. As soon as it's someone else's go, it's their turn, i.e. a new turn. So the current turn is your turn only.
The word for what you're calling a turn in your example is 'round'. A round is each player and npc taking a turn.

Lmfao, yes. It is my native tongue.

But the wording is extremely weird. If you're movement is 0 after you use this Bonus Action, and you do not regain your movement until the end of the current turn, then you can't move until the start of your next turn.

Though, as pointed out you could use the Scouts Skirmisher ability to move, but that is specific to that one archetype.

All other rogues can't move until the start of their next turn, so why not just say that? That's where I'm confused with.

They are very careful with their choice of words, and I'm wondering why they chose that phrasing. It can't just be so the Scout could move with their Reaction, right?

EDIT: But thanks for the condescending response.

I know that round is typically everyones turn, but the fact that it said "Current turn" and not "until the end of YOUR turn". Again, the wording is very weird.

[Nikushimi]

Hmm, just seems really weird honestly.

So they worded it like that so if you're a Scout you can use your Skirmishers ability, but if you're any other Rogue subclass, you're screwed unless someone else gives you movement, or the ability to move before the start of your next turn.

Just seems they should have worded it "Until the end of YOUR current turn" or something.

But thanks for the replies. Just seemed weird they said "THE current turn" and everything else.

Basically, if you're a Scout it's great for your Skirmisher ability, but if you're not then you're just stuck there until your next turn unless someone allows you to move using some other ability or spell that I don't know about off the top of my head. Weird.

[Rukelnikov]

Lmfao, yes. It is my native tongue.

But the wording is extremely weird. If you're movement is 0 after you use this Bonus Action, and you do not regain your movement until the end of the current turn, then you can't move until the start of your next turn.

Though, as pointed out you could use the Scouts Skirmisher ability to move, but that is specific to that one archetype.

All other rogues can't move until the start of their next turn, so why not just say that? That's where I'm confused with.

They are very careful with their choice of words, and I'm wondering why they chose that phrasing. It can't just be so the Scout could move with their Reaction, right?

EDIT: But thanks for the condescending response.

I know that round is typically everyones turn, but the fact that it said "Current turn" and not "until the end of YOUR turn". Again, the wording is very weird.

That's not the case, its not just the scout, any rogue could benefit from the battle master maneuver that grants an ally movement as a reaction, or if the Rogue is hasted they could BA Steady Aim, Haste action Attack, regular action ready your movement with the trigger being "as soon as any other creature moves a muscle", you end your turn, the 0 speed condition ends, and when the next creature is about to act you get to move.

There may be other moments when your movement speed is relevant outside of your turn.

It is true though that they could have gone with "your turn" instead of "current turn" since AFAIR, there's no way to take a bonus action outside of your turn. It is a decent future proof though, but its strange since it would be one of the few, if any, cases of future proofing in 5e.

EDIT: Re-reading some movement rules, since after writing the above I questioned how does readying movement work in regard to speed altering effects, and the Dash action reads very similar to this "you gain extra movement for the current turn", so the wording has precedent, and since it deals with a similar mechanic, its actually a good thing they stuck to the same wording. BTW, the example I posted does work.

[Nikushimi]

That's not the case, its not just the scout, any rogue could benefit from the battle master maneuver that grants an ally movement as a reaction, or if the Rogue is hasted they could BA Steady Aim, Haste action Attack, regular action ready your movement with the trigger being "as soon as any other creature moves a muscle", you end your turn, the 0 speed condition ends, and when the next creature is about to act you get to move.

There may be other moments when your movement speed is relevant outside of your turn.

It is true though that they could have gone with "your turn" instead of "current turn" since AFAIR, there's no way to take a bonus action outside of your turn. It is a decent future proof though, but its strange since it would be one of the few, if any, cases of future proofing in 5e.

Yeah, it's just strange.

Though, you're not always guaranteed to have a Battlemaster in your party or having Haste cast on you in order to use your action to ready your movement.

Though, brings into the question of "If you're still holding an action, has your turn really ended yet?" since you're not quite done doing everything you want to do, and thus your "turn" isn't technically over.

Just really weird. An ability which would make a really good archer type character, especially an Assassin Archer, but has such a downside to it that only a few classes can really benefit from being able to move before their next turn.

It basically locks you in place without any of those specific classes/spells/abilities. Which I can understand to a point.

Definitely makes me rethink a few things, but yeah. Just weird imo.

[Rukelnikov]

Yeah, it's just strange.

Though, you're not always guaranteed to have a Battlemaster in your party or having Haste cast on you in order to use your action to ready your movement.

Though, brings into the question of "If you're still holding an action, has your turn really ended yet?" since you're not quite done doing everything you want to do, and thus your "turn" isn't technically over.

Yes, your turn is over. Until your turn ends, no one else can take an Action, however reactions can be taken on anyone's turn. Readying was your action for your turn, you are then taking a reaction in someone elses (well you could technically ready an action that could meet its trigger before your turn finishes though I'm having a hard time coming up for a situation where that would be better than just taking the action).


Just really weird. An ability which would make a really good archer type character, especially an Assassin Archer, but has such a downside to it that only a few classes can really benefit from being able to move before their next turn.

It basically locks you in place without any of those specific classes/spells/abilities. Which I can understand to a point.

Definitely makes me rethink a few things, but yeah. Just weird imo.

Well... I don't find it weird personally, the idea is that for your PC to have "Steady Aim" they have to sit tight, if they are moving they can't aim as well as if they stand still. This also means that usually, your attack is the last thing you do in your turn, since you already used your BA for Steady Aim, and can't move afterwards, driving the idea that you spend your turn aiming that attack.

And mechanically, its not weird for me, but I'm used to scrutinizing features for edge cases, so this doesn't seem like a particularly difficult one to understand.

[Nikushimi]

Well... I don't find it weird personally, the idea is that for your PC to have "Steady Aim" they have to sit tight, if they are moving they can't aim as well as if they stand still. This also means that usually, your attack is the last thing you do in your turn, since you already used your BA for Steady Aim, and can't move afterwards, driving the idea that you spend your turn aiming that attack.

And mechanically, its not weird for me, but I'm used to scrutinizing features for edge cases, so this doesn't seem like a particularly difficult one to understand.

The thing is, you can't move before you use this ability either. In fact, that is one of the stipulations to using this ability. "You can use this Bonus Action only if you haven't moved during this turn."

I understand not having to move BEFORE the attack, but after? You're no longer aiming. So why are you stuck in position?

I guess for me it's just weird then. You don't move beforehand cause you're aiming, and after the shot you're still aiming so you can't move? I guess you could think of it as you took so much time aiming that you're recovering from aiming, but then you can move after your turn....only if you are a Scout, have Haste and took the readying movement action then using your reaction, or having the Battlemaster in your party but only if they have that specific maneuver.

So yeah, must be just weird for me then. Cause needing those specific things to move...it would just be better to say you can't move until the start of your next turn, but oh well.

[Rukelnikov]

The thing is, you can't move before you use this ability either. In fact, that is one of the stipulations to using this ability. "You can use this Bonus Action only if you haven't moved during this turn."

I understand not having to move BEFORE the attack, but after? You're no longer aiming. So why are you stuck in position?

I guess for me it's just weird then. You don't move beforehand cause you're aiming, and after the shot you're still aiming so you can't move? I guess you could think of it as you took so much time aiming that you're recovering from aiming, but then you can move after your turn....only if you are a Scout, have Haste and took the readying movement action then using your reaction, or having the Battlemaster in your party but only if they have that specific maneuver.

So yeah, must be just weird for me then. Cause needing those specific things to move...it would just be better to say you can't move until the start of your next turn, but oh well.

That's what I meant by


This also means that usually, your attack is the last thing you do in your turn, since you already used your BA for Steady Aim, and can't move afterwards, driving the idea that you spend your turn aiming that attack.

The idea is that attack action is your whole turn, and they simulate it by preventing you from moving. After you take the shot (i.e.: your turn has ended), you can move again. It is true that most rogues (most characters in fact) won't be able to make use of their speed outside their turn, but it is a good simulation of you having already taken this precisely aimed attack and being able to move again.

[Chugger]

It's probably a language thing, I guess English isn't your native tongue?

.

/Facepalm hehehe dnd 5e rules are _not_ written in English! They're written in Crawfordese, which is an exotic variant of Lawyerese!

[Chronos]

Another place where the distinction could come up, no matter what you or your allies are, is if an enemy casts the Dissonant Whispers spell.

[Reynaert]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be saying: "they could have said 'your turn' but they chose to say 'current turn' so that *must* mean they don't mean the same thing, even though 'turn' is clearly defined as one character taking their actions, bonus actions, and movement."

Maybe they just future-proofed the wording for some yet-to-be-designed feature that allows someone to take a bonus action on someone else's turn, or maybe the wording just isn't as lawyerese as you think.

In any case, during your turn, 'the current turn' *is* equal to 'your turn'. You can't just make a word mean something it doesn't, just because you find it confusing that someone chose a specific wording.

[KorvinStarmast]

I understand not having to move BEFORE the attack, but after? You're no longer aiming. So why are you stuck in position? It's the cost getting automatic advantage on an attack. You might want to stop overthinking this; it's a very simple case of an attempt to arrive at a mechanical balance point by using opportunity cost as a method.
The PC must make a choice.
Advantage makes for a much higher chance to hit and triggers sneak attack on any hit. The cost for this benefit (advantage) is no movement. Sometimes, the benefit of getting that sweet attack off is worth sacrificing movement, and sometimes it is not.
Each situation will present how big of a risk that is.

[Valmark]

So yeah, must be just weird for me then. Cause needing those specific things to move...it would just be better to say you can't move until the start of your next turn, but oh well.

It wouldn't, because that'd be an entirely different thing. As it is right now you can still move before the start of your next turn, willingly or not.

[Kane0]

Its basically that UA snipe function; you give up your movement on your turn to get advantage to hit. Party members, magic and the like can still get you extra movement outside of your turn (my current party has two rogues with a battlemaster and bard that can both hand out reaction movement)

[Unoriginal]

I don't see anything strange about the wording.

It's basically just the ability saying "if you use this, you can't use your movement speed at all during this turn, no matter what happens."

[Sandeman]

You cant move by using the Scouts skirmish ability if you use Steady aim.
Steady aim sets your speed to 0.
Skirmish allows you to move up to half of that, which is still 0.

[Valmark]

You cant move by using the Scouts skirmish ability if you use Steady aim.
Steady aim sets your speed to 0.
Skirmish allows you to move up to half of that, which is still 0.

You can because skirmish works off-turn, while Steady Aim zeroes your speed for the current turn only.

[Theodoxus]

It's literally written as one of the few (possibly only) ways to say "Full Attack Action" without having to create "Full Attack Actions" for 5E.

That's all it's doing. You don't move, you burn your BA, you make an attack and you're done.

Regarding readying to move, I guess, but why use Steady Aim if you're just going to ready to move anyway? The two are basically mutually exclusive, not in function, you can certainly do both, but it's a total waste of using Steady Aim (and locks you in place for your turn, for really no reason).

[Valmark]

It's literally written as one of the few (possibly only) ways to say "Full Attack Action" without having to create "Full Attack Actions" for 5E.

That's all it's doing. You don't move, you burn your BA, you make an attack and you're done.

Regarding readying to move, I guess, but why use Steady Aim if you're just going to ready to move anyway? The two are basically mutually exclusive, not in function, you can certainly do both, but it's a total waste of using Steady Aim (and locks you in place for your turn, for really no reason).

It doesn't, it gives you advantage.

You ready to move if you can do that together with attacking (like in Haste's case). And if you need it, of course.

[Theodoxus]

It doesn't, it gives you advantage.

Yes, and?


You ready to move if you can do that together with attacking (like in Haste's case). And if you need it, of course.

As a Rogue, I'd far rather use haste to ready an attack so I can potentially get sneak twice. It's about the only reason I'd burn haste on a Rogue as a caster. If they weren't trying to maximize their damage output, that's the last haste they'd get from me.

[KorvinStarmast]

You can because skirmish works off-turn, while Steady Aim zeroes your speed for the current turn only. I agree with this assessment; reactions happen on someone else's turn.

[Gignere]

I agree with this assessment; reactions happen on someone else's turn.

Not always for example counterspelling a counterspell can happen on your turn.

[KorvinStarmast]

Not always for example counterspelling a counterspell can happen on your turn. Extreme edge case is extreme edge case.

[Gignere]

Extreme edge case is extreme edge case.

Also happens with OAs and shield spell.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Also happens with OAs and shield spell.

That makes 2 edge cases out of what I'd put at a rough guess of several dozen different kinds of reactions. Neither of which are entirely relevant to this interaction either, a reaction that let you move on your own turn would be the edge case that might cause some confusion and I can't think of one.

It would be correct to say that in a majority of cases a reaction will not happen on your own turn but if you do happen to trigger one, it's going to be a pretty specific thing.

[Hytheter]

a reaction that let you move on your own turn would be the edge case that might cause some confusion and I can't think of one.

Hypothetically you could use a feature like Voice of Authority to allow another character to attack, who can then use that to trigger Maneuvering Attack and allow you to move. That's pretty niche though, especially if you're supposed to be using Steady Aim in that same turn.

[Theodoxus]

You're gonna need to walk me through Counterspelling a Counterspell that is Counterspelling a Spell you're currently casting.

If you're in the process of casting a spell, you can't stop that spell to suddenly use your reaction to cast a completely different spell, and then resume your original spell as if nothing happened. Or are you ruling "in the process of casting a spell" as something that it is not, in common English?

Or, are you implying that one can cast two spells simultaneously?

[ProsecutorGodot]

You're gonna need to walk me through Counterspelling a Counterspell that is Counterspelling a Spell you're currently casting.

If you're in the process of casting a spell, you can't stop that spell to suddenly use your reaction to cast a completely different spell, and then resume your original spell as if nothing happened. Or are you ruling "in the process of casting a spell" as something that it is not, in common English?

Or, are you implying that one can cast two spells simultaneously?

As long as you have a free hand for counterspell's somatic component and haven't cast a spell as a bonus action on your turn, you're set.

It's not that complicated, Counterspell doesn't take your concentration and nothing says you can't use a reaction (for any reason, not just limited to spellcasting) during your own spellcasting.

[Nikushimi]

It wouldn't, because that'd be an entirely different thing. As it is right now you can still move before the start of your next turn, willingly or not.
But, as I said, and as others have pointed out, that's in specific cases with specific class features and spells that your party or enemies may not have.


It's the cost getting automatic advantage on an attack. You might want to stop overthinking this; it's a very simple case of an attempt to arrive at a mechanical balance point by using opportunity cost as a method.
The PC must make a choice.
Advantage makes for a much higher chance to hit and triggers sneak attack on any hit. The cost for this benefit (advantage) is no movement. Sometimes, the benefit of getting that sweet attack off is worth sacrificing movement, and sometimes it is not.
Each situation will present how big of a risk that is.
Yes, I am fine with not being able to move. It makes sense that you're taking time to aim your shot for Advantage. I just don't understand why it said "The current turn" because you can't really move after your turn is over unless you have specific class features or party members with those features/spells to allow you to do so. So for me it would have made better sense to say "You cannot move until the start of your next turn", but perhaps they wanted to give at least the opportunity for you to move IF you have those very specific features/spells and classes in your party.


I don't see anything strange about the wording.

It's basically just the ability saying "if you use this, you can't use your movement speed at all during this turn, no matter what happens." And that's fine. Being able to not move after you take aim isn't really an issue. It was just in the wording cause it makes no sense to me when you, typically, can't move until the start of your next turn when your turn ends. However, I suppose they wanted to give the player a chance to move if you have specific features/spells, but that to me just seems really niche. Though if you have those features/spells then great!


You can because skirmish works off-turn, while Steady Aim zeroes your speed for the current turn only.
Which is why I was really confused why they didn't just say "You cannot move until the start of your next turn." since you typically can't move outside of your turn. Doing so requires specific features or spells that you may not have access too, but as I've come to rationalize that it was probably to give them the opportunity to do so if they do have them, otherwise it is until the start of your next turn.
---

I do appreciate all the explanations from those who were friendly about it. It was just really confusing why they used that wording to me. Once I realized "Current turn" didn't mean everyones turn, which would be round it just made me wonder why they didn't say "Until the start of your next turn" but I suppose they wanted to give them at least a chance to move if they had specific abilities or spells to allow them to do so, or a party member had them. Which is nice of them...if you have those specific things, but it's there if you do!

So now I understand a bit more as to why they worded it that way.

Thanks for everyones insight.

[Valmark]

You're gonna need to walk me through Counterspelling a Counterspell that is Counterspelling a Spell you're currently casting.

If you're in the process of casting a spell, you can't stop that spell to suddenly use your reaction to cast a completely different spell, and then resume your original spell as if nothing happened. Or are you ruling "in the process of casting a spell" as something that it is not, in common English?

Or, are you implying that one can cast two spells simultaneously?


As long as you have a free hand for counterspell's somatic component and haven't cast a spell as a bonus action on your turn, you're set.

It's not that complicated, Counterspell doesn't take your concentration and nothing says you can't use a reaction (for any reason, not just limited to spellcasting) during your own spellcasting.

Either I missed something important or at least one of you posted in the wrong thread, I think?

[ProsecutorGodot]

Either I missed something important or at least one of you posted in the wrong thread, I think?

It's a tangent on why it's relevant that Steady Aim only removes your movement during your turn, since there are ways to take a reaction (a very small handful that allow you to move) that might happen on your turn.

Which was in itself a branching off of the statement, "reactions happen on someone else's turn."

So no, it's not entirely relevant, unless a significant amount of reaction abilities that allow you to move and can be used on your own turn see print in the future.

[KorvinStarmast]

I just don't understand why it said "The current turn" because you can't really move after your turn is over unless you have specific class features or party members with those features/spells to allow you to do so. So for me it would have made better sense to say "You cannot move until the start of your next turn", but perhaps they wanted to give at least the opportunity for you to move IF you have those very specific features/spells and classes in your party. I think you are right (italics part). This thread has been an interesting examination of that feature, so thanks for asking the question. :smallsmile: