Ray Winninger announced 5 more settings being worked on with new format

[Gyor]

But Wyatt's book isn't one of them. 2 are the classic settings he promised they have a new format. 2 more are new settings (not MtG) and the 5th is a setting 5e already visited. These settings haven't been named, but via the process of elimination its the Forgotten Realms, with a tiny chance its Eberron.

Ravnica, Theros, and Strixhaven won't be visited for 3-4 years at the earliest by the MtG crew so nothing to update in those settings. Ravenloft and Strixhaven are getting books this year. That leaves FR and Eberron. Eberron fans by and large are happy with Eberron: Rising From the Last War and the setting doesn't change much between editions, so the important parts to update are the mechanics.

Fans by and large were unsatisified by the SCAG, I wouldn't count it as a Campaign Setting book, but WotC apparently does, and its by far the oldest such book the most critized, its mechanics are broken, and its completely out of date which not true of the rest except Ravnica.

So logically it has to be FR they are talking about.

I think one of the new settings connects to Witchlight, and will be the Domains of Delight.

Only the first 2 are certain, the last three are not locked in, not all books they work on get published. I think barring a huge mess the FR one is the least likely of the 3 to get the chopping block. FR is the most popular setting after all.

[KorvinStarmast]

What does "new format" mean?

[LudicSavant]

FR is the most popular setting after all.

Last thing I heard from WotC on the matter of popularity (admittedly quite a while ago) was that Eberron, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, and Planescape were proving "equally popular" to Forgotten Realms in their surveys, but that of the top 5 settings, 4 of them require significant new material to work properly with 5e.

I'm curious how much of Forgotten Realms's popularity is just due to it being pushed as default. These other settings seem to maintain their followings even when unsupported.

[Ralanr]

I'm curious how much of Forgotten Realms's popularity is just due to it being pushed as default. These other settings seem to maintain their followings even when unsupported.


Given that all of the modules are printed in FR, I'd save to say the default is a big reason. While the realms is interesting, I feel WOTC could maybe show us more than the Sword Coast and the Underdark.

[Sparky McDibben]

What does "new format" mean?

That's my question, too. I am worried they'll go full digital, but that seems like too big of a jump to be done for two books, though. Maybe they'll just steal the layout of the Cipher system from MCG.

Also, I want to +1 jaappleton's theory from the other thread - I think it's Critical Role.

[MaxWilson]

Eberron fans by and large are happy with Eberron: Rising From the Last War and the setting doesn't change much between editions

Also, Eberron fans are also happy with Exploring Eberron, and all of its details/stats/items/etc. for Xen'drik, other planes (good ideas on Githyanki and daelkyr, and fantastic ideas for how to run Slaads), etc. Although there is a big hole: Sarlona/Riedra are not covered in Exploring Eberron or Rising From the Last War, and DMs who want to run campaigns there have to import or make up a psionics system. That's a potential opening if WotC wants to fill it.

[Joe the Rat]

Psionics is a potential opening WotC has been trying to fill since 2015. It's certainly necessary for Dark Sun (and those baby eldritch horror people in Eberron), but it's been a trial.


Anyone else eyeballing that 'Domains of Delight' and thinking Mirror Mirror Ravenloft? Everything light and whimsical looking but you're trapped here because some dude rolled in with big hubris and pissed off the wrong Bright Powers. And there are monsters.

Technically they've dabbled in Greyhawk with Ghosts of Saltmarsh, but only insofar as namechecking Keoland and Iuz.

[Kuulvheysoon]

...

I'm curious how much of Forgotten Realms's popularity is just due to it being pushed as default. These other settings seem to maintain their followings even when unsupported.

There's also the fact that the majority of D&D novels (this edition and before) are Forgotten Realms as well. So the current crop of 5E players (both new and returning) have probably read them for years, and are at least passingly familiar with it.

[chainer1216]

That's my question, too. I am worried they'll go full digital, but that seems like too big of a jump to be done for two books, though. Maybe they'll just steal the layout of the Cipher system from MCG.

Also, I want to +1 jaappleton's theory from the other thread - I think it's Critical Role.


It was later clarified that this does NOT mean digital only.

[Vegan Squirrel]

There's also the fact that the majority of D&D novels (this edition and before) are Forgotten Realms as well. So the current crop of 5E players (both new and returning) have probably read them for years, and are at least passingly familiar with it.

Don't construe this as any kind of judgement on the novels (I've never read them), but in all my years of gaming, I'm pretty sure no one I've played with has ever mentioned D&D novels. OotS, yes, D&D movies yes, other fantasy novels yes, but never the D&D novels. Of course my experience is not universal, but I'd be willing to bet that, were it not for the published adventures pushing the Realms, it would not be any more popular than other settings. In fact, I think the Critical Role setting might be more popular even with FR being pushed as the default.

Actually, published campaign settings in general seem more popular online than among my face-to-face gaming groups, past and present. The only times we've used a published setting were when someone was running one of the hardcover adventures, and that's been less common that homebrewed campaigns. Personal experience again, of course; obviously many players are committed to these settings.

[Luccan]

Don't construe this as any kind of judgement on the novels (I've never read them), but in all my years of gaming, I'm pretty sure no one I've played with has ever mentioned D&D novels. OotS, yes, D&D movies yes, other fantasy novels yes, but never the D&D novels. Of course my experience is not universal, but I'd be willing to bet that, were it not for the published adventures pushing the Realms, it would not be any more popular than other settings. In fact, I think the Critical Role setting might be more popular even with FR being pushed as the default.

Actually, published campaign settings in general seem more popular online than among my face-to-face gaming groups, past and present. The only times we've used a published setting were when someone was running one of the hardcover adventures, and that's been less common that homebrewed campaigns. Personal experience again, of course; obviously many players are committed to these settings.

I think modern gaming culture is such that if your game doesn't have a singular, unified setting you're expected to make up your own. Plus a lot of DMs are lapsed authors, world-builders, and occasionally actually published writers for whom creating something newish and original-adjacent is half the fun of DMing. For some it's their only creative outlet. And then there's the logistical work load of running a well established setting. FR was probably more obviously popular back when it was new and a lot of it was still, you know, Forgotten so you could fill in the map yourself. Now you have to worry about upsetting a setting fan if you forget some backwoods village. Whether that's actually going to happen is irrelevant, it can add a psychological pressure to "get it right" that just making up your own stuff avoids.

[loki_ragnarock]

Here's hoping alternative formats mean boxed sets.

[Gyor]

Psionics is a potential opening WotC has been trying to fill since 2015. It's certainly necessary for Dark Sun (and those baby eldritch horror people in Eberron), but it's been a trial.


Anyone else eyeballing that 'Domains of Delight' and thinking Mirror Mirror Ravenloft? Everything light and whimsical looking but you're trapped here because some dude rolled in with big hubris and pissed off the wrong Bright Powers. And there are monsters.

Technically they've dabbled in Greyhawk with Ghosts of Saltmarsh, but only insofar as namechecking Keoland and Iuz.

Greyhawk doesn't count as a revisit because it has no setting book, so it would be one of the classics if it's getting done.

And yeah I feel certain that the Domains of Delight are one of the new settings. It could be considered the revisit if they consider it a part of Ravenloft, but it's unlikely as it's set in a different mirror plane with the Material Plane between them and its genre themes are very different. Each domain will likely be ruled by Archfey instead of Dark Lords and the only prison elements will be ones own vices as in succumbing to the temptation of delights. Also time Maybe a major factor Ala fairy circles, go in, stay for a couple days, and come out say 100 years later in the Material Plane. It will Mirror the Domains of Dread in someways, but not others. The Archfey will likely be able to open and close it's borders as well.

It makes me wonder if Planescape will focus more of on the Domains of Divinity, aka Gods & Outsiders Paragons more then just Sigil.

[Luccan]

Greyhawk doesn't count as a revisit because it has no setting book, so it would be one of the classics if it's getting done.


Wait, what did he actually say? Because that's not what I would interpret revisit to mean.

[MrStabby]

Last thing I heard from WotC on the matter of popularity (admittedly quite a while ago) was that Eberron, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, and Planescape were proving "equally popular" to Forgotten Realms in their surveys, but that of the top 5 settings, 4 of them require significant new material to work properly with 5e.

I'm curious how much of Forgotten Realms's popularity is just due to it being pushed as default. These other settings seem to maintain their followings even when unsupported.

I actually quite like a lot of FR. It is a bit generic in some ways, but that is what I signed up for. "Like a fantasy world but with X" type seetings usually make me just hate whatever X is. So I can enjoy settings like FR and Ravenloft, and Greyhawk a bit whilst hating Eberron, Darksun,Spelljammer etc. (with an odd exception for enjoying Sigil and Ravnica). FR seems to have a really strong set of gods that makes me happy to play a cleric or other divine themed character - gods I wouldn't mind RPing being in service to which is a weakness (in my subjective oppinion) of other settings.

That said, I don't feel a need for that much more FR content - I don't feel the need for setting content that much at all; I enjoy exploring these worlds through games and a DM's take on them rather than through books.

[rlc]

My heart says a new adventure in Eberron (as in, original for 5e), possibly involving Sarlona
My gut says that, out of the two classic settings, one of them is going to be Kara-Tur.

[Admael]

Given that Wizards has already announced a partnership with Games Workshop for a Warhammer 40k MtG set, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the new settings was a Warhammer one, Fantasy, 40k, or Age of Sigmar.

[Sparky McDibben]

Given that Wizards has already announced a partnership with Games Workshop for a Warhammer 40k MtG set, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the new settings was a Warhammer one, Fantasy, 40k, or Age of Sigmar.

Part of me has a childlike delight at the thought of 5e paladins basically already being Space Marines. Part of me is crushed by the thought of WotC trying to do grimdark themes in 5e. Like...I am seriously torn about this.

[Gyor]

Given that Wizards has already announced a partnership with Games Workshop for a Warhammer 40k MtG set, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the new settings was a Warhammer one, Fantasy, 40k, or Age of Sigmar.

I hope not.

[Gyor]

I actually quite like a lot of FR. It is a bit generic in some ways, but that is what I signed up for. "Like a fantasy world but with X" type seetings usually make me just hate whatever X is. So I can enjoy settings like FR and Ravenloft, and Greyhawk a bit whilst hating Eberron, Darksun,Spelljammer etc. (with an odd exception for enjoying Sigil and Ravnica). FR seems to have a really strong set of gods that makes me happy to play a cleric or other divine themed character - gods I wouldn't mind RPing being in service to which is a weakness (in my subjective oppinion) of other settings.

That said, I don't feel a need for that much more FR content - I don't feel the need for setting content that much at all; I enjoy exploring these worlds through games and a DM's take on them rather than through books.

More recently they said the Forgotten Realms is the most popular setting period, that is why it was picked to get an MtG set. The original survey was done most by hard core fans, FR has alot of fans that didn't participate in the survey, but WotC still knows about them from sales and other sources.

[MrStabby]

More recently they said the Forgotten Realms is the most popular setting period, that is why it was picked to get an MtG set. The original survey was done most by hard core fans, FR has alot of fans that didn't participate in the survey, but WotC still knows about them from sales and other sources.

Honestly I am not sure I have a lot of faith in WotC survey methodologies. I mean I like the result but still...

My impression is that FR is the richest most well developed setting they have. Approval might be for rich well developed settings rather than FR specifically. Also, just having more content means more regions/elements for people to like.

[Gyor]

Honestly I am not sure I have a lot of faith in WotC survey methodologies. I mean I like the result but still...

My impression is that FR is the richest most well developed setting they have. Approval might be for rich well developed settings rather than FR specifically. Also, just having more content means more regions/elements for people to like.

All we know is FR is the most popular setting.

[Silly Name]

Many people would also argue that FR's popularity is a self-fulfilling prophecy, since WotC keeps on pushing it as the default setting and has largely ignored other official settings. New players simply don't get exposed to Planescape, Greyhawk or Dragonlance the same way they get exposed to the Forgotten Realms.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Many people would also argue that FR's popularity is a self-fulfilling prophecy, since WotC keeps on pushing it as the default setting and has largely ignored other official settings. New players simply don't get exposed to Planescape, Greyhawk or Dragonlance the same way they get exposed to the Forgotten Realms.

Side note--none of those others existed in 4e. Dragonlance got a book in 3e, and while Greyhawk was the "default setting" of 3e, I have the strong suspicion that it basically sat fallow and only those old-school people used it as a separate setting (rather than just a generic faceless blob). Planescape, as a separate setting, existed only for one set of books back in 2e. Concepts got re-used, but never as a separate setting. FR is the only one that's had meaningful continuity since AD&D. It and Dragonlance are the only ones with significant novelization (there are theoretically Greyhawk books, but I've never seen one, while any used book store has shelves of Dragonlance/FR books).

Greyhawk is, if anything, even more generic and more forgettable than FR. It really has nothing to set itself apart as different unless you're a hardcore fan who knows all the details. It's a white-bread peanut-butter-and-grape-jelly sandwitch...without the peanut-butter or jelly. Dragonlance is already rather full of stories, most of which are railroaded to heck and back. Planescape is too weird for most casual players and way too hostile to new people, since you now have to know all the details of all the cosmology stuff. It's also rather forbidding to make your own because of how tightly entangled it is with its cosmology. Eberron is too narrow in its aesthetic for many people--it's not generic enough for a default setting[1].

This is not to say that FR is a setting I like. I strongly dislike it. But I understand why it was chosen as the default for published adventures. Of the "classic" settings, it's the one that simultaneously has the most depth of history (internally and IRL) and mind-share and is the most friendly to new players, while being varied[2]. Both of which fit 5e's attempt to be the Nostalgia Edition while also being easy to get in to.

Thinking about it more, I wish they'd take a break from publishing settings and instead publish more books for DMs with setting bits that can be sprinkled into their own setting (or any of the existing ones). Cultures. Kingdoms. Organizations. Local maps. Castles, temples, ruins. Guidance for making interesting pantheons. etc.

[1] FR is not the default setting for the rules. The rules don't have one. Instead, FR is the default setting for published adventures using the rules, a very different proposition.
[2] even though they've used little of that variance so far.

[Silly Name]

Side note--none of those others existed in 4e. Dragonlance got a book in 3e, and while Greyhawk was the "default setting" of 3e, I have the strong suspicion that it basically sat fallow and only those old-school people used it as a separate setting (rather than just a generic faceless blob). Planescape, as a separate setting, existed only for one set of books back in 2e. Concepts got re-used, but never as a separate setting. FR is the only one that's had meaningful continuity since AD&D. It and Dragonlance are the only ones with significant novelization (there are theoretically Greyhawk books, but I've never seen one, while any used book store has shelves of Dragonlance/FR books).

Yeah, that's what I meant. FR has been pushed into public consciousness for 20 years, of course it's the most popular setting. I bet a lot of players don't know anything about the other settings apart from name and the barebones description.


Greyhawk is, if anything, even more generic and more forgettable than FR. It really has nothing to set itself apart as different unless you're a hardcore fan who knows all the details. It's a white-bread peanut-butter-and-grape-jelly sandwitch...without the peanut-butter or jelly.

Personally, I think a lot of 5e stuff would work wayyy better in Greyhawk than it does in the Realms. But that's my opinion as one of those hardcore fans who binge on history and lore.


Thinking about it more, I wish they'd take a break from publishing settings and instead publish more books for DMs with setting bits that can be sprinkled into their own setting (or any of the existing ones). Cultures. Kingdoms. Organizations. Local maps. Castles, temples, ruins. Guidance for making interesting pantheons. etc.

A lot of 3.5 splats had this approach at various points. It was chock-full of inspiration for me as a GM and as a player, I loved reading about various in-world organisations, NPCs, pouring over maps and tidbits of lore.

[PhoenixPhyre]

1) Personally, I think a lot of 5e stuff would work wayyy better in Greyhawk than it does in the Realms. But that's my opinion as one of those hardcore fans who binge on history and lore.

2) A lot of 3.5 splats had this approach at various points. It was chock-full of inspiration for me as a GM and as a player, I loved reading about various in-world organisations, NPCs, pouring over maps and tidbits of lore.

1) I don't personally know much about greyhawk. And everything I've learned has been promptly forgotten because it was completely colorless, at least on the surface. I know more about FR (mostly from novels and the BG/NWN games). Then again, I dislike most of what I know about FR, especially the NPC names[1]. And I think that having a long history in multiple editions (done in the FR "it really happened and we have the cataclysmic event scars to prove it" way) causes tons of issues with legacy pieces not fitting well because they were designed around 1e/2e/3e mechanics. So I can't say I have much of an opinion on this particular thing. I play entirely in my own setting, which is very much more 4e-inspired than anything else, with large helpings of other random bits.

2) I might actually consider acquiring books like that, were they to exist (the 3e ones require too much conversion, because I'm lazy). New setting books are basically a "never" purchase (or maybe "pick one up if I find it used for a great price"), since my total use for them is skimming for little bits I could yoink into my own setting, and that's not worth the money to buy new. But I can always use more maps, organizations, etc. Even if I have to just file off the serial numbers.

[1] That was the hardest thing about the portion of the PotA game I was in. Not throwing the book across the room due to the laughable (and not in a comedic way), barely pronounceable names.

[Corsair14]

Given that Wizards has already announced a partnership with Games Workshop for a Warhammer 40k MtG set, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the new settings was a Warhammer one, Fantasy, 40k, or Age of Sigmar.

It wont be AoS or oldhammer world. Both of these have very recent RPGs of their own by other companies. I prefer the previous editions of Fantasy with its random careers, but the AOS book looks pretty spiffy even if I haven't looked at the rules in more than passing at the LGS.

Im still "betting" on Planescape OR Spelljammer, Dragonlance(new novels coming out), and Greyhawk(saltmarsh was based in GH) for the revisit. Then two more magic settings I care nothing about. I wish it was Darksun but it would take massive investment to make it work, new PHB specific for DS, a new Psionics book, + the campaign setting itself and monster manuals for all the unique monsters. Plus all the so called problematic issues they would have to deal with that made the setting so unique and awesome. Not going to happen. It would end up being a watered down PC setting like Ravenloft 5e ended up being instead of the rough an tumble apocalypse by Brom it needs to be.

[KorvinStarmast]

Many people would also argue that FR's popularity is a self-fulfilling prophecy, since WotC keeps on pushing it as the default setting and has largely ignored other official settings. New players simply don't get exposed to Planescape, Greyhawk or Dragonlance the same way they get exposed to the Forgotten Realms. That's how I see it as well. Greyhawk would probably have gotten more love if Gary and WoTC hadn't been at odds during 3e/3.x. :smallcool:

...and only those old-school people used it as a separate setting (rather than just a generic faceless blob). ... there are theoretically Greyhawk books, but I've never seen one, EGG wrote a few books about Gord in Greyhawk, and they weren't very good. This old school person likes the Salt Marsh book for 5e, but I had to go on line to get the most excellent map currently available.


Greyhawk is, if anything, even more generic and more forgettable than FR. From your perspective, I can see how that works. For me, who played a lot of games in that world in the 80's, it's more real than the FR. Your point on how it caters to the non-grognard audience has merit.
I dislike FR for my own reasons. But some of the books were enjoyable mind candy when I was at sea with some time on my hands ...


I wish they'd take a break from publishing settings and instead publish more books for DMs with setting bits that can be sprinkled into their own setting (or any of the existing ones). Cultures. Kingdoms. Organizations. Local maps. Castles, temples, ruins. Guidance for making interesting pantheons. etc. I agree, but they have to consider how to monetize that before they decide to publish.

FR is the default setting for published adventures using the rules Yep.

FR has been pushed into public consciousness for 20 years, of course it's the most popular setting. Try for about 35 years. :smallwink: (we were already getting stories from the forgotten realms in Dragon Mag in the 80's, and the first 'big setting' boxed set for FR was IIRC in 1987 ... which was after E.G.G. had been pushed out of TSR (his 'boxed' Greyhawk setting is obvious competition for FR)

Personally, I think a lot of 5e stuff would work wayyy better in Greyhawk than it does in the Realms. I feel similarly, but any DM/Table can adapt to a game world. FR works fine if you let it.

But I can always use more maps, organizations, etc. Even if I have to just file off the serial numbers. I've been doing that for years. :smallsmile:

[1] That was the hardest thing about the portion of the PotA game I was in. Not throwing the book across the room due to the laughable (and not in a comedic way), barely pronounceable names. *snort* Given the names you offer us in play, I can rarely spell them the way that I hear you say them, but when I see them I can usually say them ... usually. I guess I could have spent a little more effort to say J-man's name, but since he was from an alien culture I chose to give him my own name in my own language.

[Arkhios]

As much as I hate to admit it, in addition to FR and Eberron, Wildemount (or whatever the world/setting is called) is a possibility as well. Or, as I mentioned elsewhere, Greyhawk might have a small chance (because of Ghosts of the Saltmarsh; which is a pre-established (long before 5th edition) location Oerth), which I do very much prefer over catering to Critical Role fans.

[PhoenixPhyre]

*snort* Given the names you offer us in play, I can rarely spell them the way that I hear you say them, but when I see them I can usually say them ... usually. I guess I could have spent a little more effort to say J-man's name, but since he was from an alien culture I chose to give him my own name in my own language.

Touche. Naming things is hard. I definitely try to pull real-world strings (often names are translated strings into a "representative base language", then further mangled so I can pronounce them) as names. FR didn't even try to do that--it was just strings of syllables thrown together. When the baker has a name 10 syllables in length (counting both names) that don't follow any kind of phonetic pattern...Trying to read them outloud from the printed book was a pain. And remembering who was who was obnoxious. So we just gave up and gave them nicknames.


And what's so hard about Jahat Khema (dzhuh-HOT khem-AH)? Sure, the 'kh' sound isn't so common in English, but...

Having said that, J-man is a perfectly good name for him. Especially since he (was) an antagonist.

[KorvinStarmast]

I definitely try to pull real-world strings (often names are translated strings into a "representative base language", then further mangled so I can pronounce them) as names. FR didn't even try to do that--it was just strings of syllables thrown together. Oh, no arguing with the strange choices, and how Elven names have over-apostrophe-use syndrome. :smallyuk:



And what's so hard about Jahat Khema (dzhuh-HOT khem-AH)? Sure, the 'kh' sound isn't so common in English, but...

Having said that, J-man is a perfectly good name for him. Especially since he (was) an antagonist.
I think that my problem was that I didn't have it in front of me those times when we were discussing it, and, he was in my PC's past - I'd not 'role played being in his presence which is the kind of thing that would have made it stick.

Gozhe, though, was easy to pick up. :smallsmile:

[truemane]

My gut says that, out of the two classic settings, one of them is going to be Kara-Tur.
As much as I love Kara-Tur, and would love an updated version, and as often as I still want to run games in Kara-Tur, the level of ethnic and cultural stereotyping was problematic even in the 80's. There's no way WOTC would wade into that briar patch again.

[Corsair14]

PLus Kara Tur is already part of Forgotten Realms. I forgot about Eberron(not hard). So I change my prediction to PLanescape(lazy and easy to do) or Spelljammer(much harder but more popular) and Dragonlance for the classics. Eberon for the returning setting then the two MTG realms as the last two.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Honestly, I'm not feeling Eberron as the returning setting (unless they do something with Xen'drik, and I kinda doubt that they will because ToA is a thing already, and that fills the "spooky jungle" angle). Don't get me wrong, I love me some Eberron, but I'd be pretty surprised.

I do think that FR will return, but it'll focus on a different area of the Realms, like maybe the Sea of Fallen Stars.

[Sigreid]

Honestly, the only 2 settings I'd buy at this point are probably Greyhawk (which goes well with some of the characters they've been leaning onto in the books and modules) and Spelljammer. Hard to a soft pass on the others.

[Vegan Squirrel]

Honestly, the only 2 settings I'd buy at this point are probably Greyhawk (which goes well with some of the characters they've been leaning onto in the books and modules) and Spelljammer. Hard to a soft pass on the others.

The only possible setting that comes to mind that I'd actually buy is Hyrule. That could be neat, especially as a setting that's essentially re-forged anew from the same ingredients each time a Zelda game comes out (which gives DMs more freedom to make it their own). I doubt we'll get an official Nintendo collaboration, but it would make for an interesting and popular setting for a D&D campaign.

Anyway, I'm obviously not the target audience for campaign setting books, and that's fine. I don't have a need for any more 5e books. The edition is big enough already, and I know the system well enough to work up my own material without any problems.

[Luccan]

I mean, if we're getting new settings, I hope we can get a brand new 5e one. I know some people have said that Wildemount counts (not in this thread, but elsewhere), but that just doesn't feel right. Maybe because it was originally a homebrew Pathfinder setting, maybe because it doesn't leap out as all that different on the face of it (though it certainly has its interesting quirks). I always thought Eberron handled the whole kitchen sink thing in an interesting way, while adding its own elements that weren't really in the game at that point. No need to rehash that exactly, but as a generalized way to approach world building for what's going to be a TTRPG setting I think there's some merit to what Eberron did.. Something that takes 5e's systems and says "what does this mean for a world?" would be cool, especially if it could approach a different tone and themes than standard high-magic western fantasy RPG fair. And I actually think this is where something like the custom lineage/race overhaul could have potential. Certainly subclasses would, as I find they too often have no attachment to the setting itself if you aren't a Cleric or Warlock.

[rlc]

I mean, if we're getting new settings, I hope we can get a brand new 5e one. I know some people have said that Wildemount counts (not in this thread, but elsewhere), but that just doesn't feel right. Maybe because it was originally a homebrew Pathfinder setting, maybe because it doesn't leap out as all that different on the face of it (though it certainly has its interesting quirks). I always thought Eberron handled the whole kitchen sink thing in an interesting way, while adding its own elements that weren't really in the game at that point. No need to rehash that exactly, but as a generalized way to approach world building for what's going to be a TTRPG setting I think there's some merit to what Eberron did.. Something that takes 5e's systems and says "what does this mean for a world?" would be cool, especially if it could approach a different tone and themes than standard high-magic western fantasy RPG fair. And I actually think this is where something like the custom lineage/race overhaul could have potential. Certainly subclasses would, as I find they too often have no attachment to the setting itself if you aren't a Cleric or Warlock.

I’ll be honest: this made me think of Shadowrun, and I hope they don’t do a Shadowrun clone.

[Luccan]

I’ll be honest: this made me think of Shadowrun, and I hope they don’t do a Shadowrun clone.

Yeah they don't need to do "what if we went from Faux-Medieval Period to X Period" specifically, just that Eberron took a different stab at things. So did Spelljammer, Dark Sun, Ravenloft etc.

[LudicSavant]

Something that takes 5e's systems and says "what does this mean for a world?" would be cool

Yes, please.

[Gyor]

As much as I hate to admit it, in addition to FR and Eberron, Wildemount (or whatever the world/setting is called) is a possibility as well. Or, as I mentioned elsewhere, Greyhawk might have a small chance (because of Ghosts of the Saltmarsh; which is a pre-established (long before 5th edition) location Oerth), which I do very much prefer over catering to Critical Role fans.

Exandria (where Wildemount is set) is tied to Critical Role seasons. The first two already have Setting books, so there won't be another one until the later part of Season 3, which won't even start for months yet at best. The setting evovles with the improvisation of the cast during a season, so its way too early for that to be the revisit.

And to the folks saying FR is only popular because it got pushed, almost every setting in AD&D got pushed and piles of products for them got made. Dragonlance, Mystara, and Greyhawk all had major head starts on the Forgotten Realms when FR first came out and FR blew past them in popularity. In 3e Greyhawk was the default setting and yet, they had to keep churning out FR books, because FR was more popular.

Other settings have gotten pushes from novels to video games to other stuff, but they always come back to FR because these are never as popular as FR products.

Eberron got its own major modern MMO before FR did, but they ended up having to make a portal to FR to keep the game a float.

They actually had a crossover trilogy of novels between Planescape, Dragonlance, and FR in the hopes that they could spread FRs popularity to other settings.

Exandria is super popular, with CR raising millions of dollars for a Cartoon adaption. Hugely promoted across social media. Young and hip. Yet FR is STILL more popular.

FR is getting $100 million movie, not to push the setting, but in order to help prop up the movie so it doesn't fail like every other D&D movie that's not set there.

So its not FR is a generic setting that is popular because it got more promotion, it gets more promotion because it a multidimensional, deep setting that consistantly delivers so said promotions pay off enough that it keeps chugging along. The investments go where the pay offs are.

FR is about to become the most popular MtG set as well.

There have been times where their were openings for other settings to eclipse FR, they all failed to do so, by the Gods even Exandria can't do it.

[Arkhios]

Exandria (where Wildemount is set) is tied to Critical Role seasons. The first two already have Setting books, so there won't be another one until the later part of Season 3, which won't even start for months yet at best. The setting evovles with the improvisation of the cast during a season, so its way too early for that to be the revisit.

And to the folks saying FR is only popular because it got pushed, almost every setting in AD&D got pushed and piles of products for them got made. Dragonlance, Mystara, and Greyhawk all had major head starts on the Forgotten Realms when FR first came out and FR blew past them in popularity. In 3e Greyhawk was the default setting and yet, they had to keep churning out FR books, because FR was more popular.

Other settings have gotten pushes from novels to video games to other stuff, but they always come back to FR because these are never as popular as FR products.

Eberron got its own major modern MMO before FR did, but they ended up having to make a portal to FR to keep the game a float.

They actually had a crossover trilogy of novels between Planescape, Dragonlance, and FR in the hopes that they could spread FRs popularity to other settings.

Exandria is super popular, with CR raising millions of dollars for a Cartoon adaption. Hugely promoted across social media. Young and hip. Yet FR is STILL more popular.

FR is getting $100 million movie, not to push the setting, but in order to help prop up the movie so it doesn't fail like every other D&D movie that's not set there.

So its not FR is a generic setting that is popular because it got more promotion, it gets more promotion because it a multidimensional, deep setting that consistantly delivers so said promotions pay off enough that it keeps chugging along. The investments go where the pay offs are.

FR is about to become the most popular MtG set as well.

There have been times where their were openings for other settings to eclipse FR, they all failed to do so, by the Gods even Exandria can't do it.

Personally I have nothing against more FR material, honestly. I have fond memories from childhood relating to games and books set in there, and the setting is vast and deep enough to forgive a few Special Snowflakes stealing the spotlight in the mainstream, set in a very narrow time period. Ignoring the books I'm sure we all know without naming them, Forgotten Realms has still quite a lot of potential going forward.

I'm not ashamed (okay maybe I am, just a little) to admit that my personal ire towards Critical Role stems from the Critical Role fans who started playing D&D for the first time after watching the show, fully expecting and/or demanding their DM's to run their games exactly like Matt Mercer does. I mean, I know it's not Matt's fault, per sé, that said fans couldn't read and/or understand the disclaimers regarding Matt's style differing from the norm. But I can't help wondering if Critical Role actually had inadvertently done a disservice to the old playerbase, even though it did a huge service to the game itself. Those Critical Role fans ruined Matt Mercer's creations for me, as sad as it is.

In any case, I do understand that FR is wildly popular, even after so many years, and it's perfectly reasonable for WotC to focus on it. I would just hope that they wouldn't continue neglecting some of the more classic settings in the meanwhile.

[Gyor]

PLus Kara Tur is already part of Forgotten Realms. I forgot about Eberron(not hard). So I change my prediction to PLanescape(lazy and easy to do) or Spelljammer(much harder but more popular) and Dragonlance for the classics. Eberon for the returning setting then the two MTG realms as the last two.

Ray already ruled MtG settings for the revisit and new settings. Eberron already has two Campaign Setting Books for 5e, Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron and Eberron: Rising from the Last War.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Ray already ruled MtG settings for the revisit and new settings. Eberron already has two Campaign Setting Books for 5e, Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron and Eberron: Rising from the Last War.

Wayfarer's Guide and Rising from the Last War can't truly be counted as two separate books - Rising has 90+% of the Wayfarer's Guide contents.

[chainer1216]

My money is on the revisit being Faerun because Sword Coast Adventures Guide was a huge fumble, as for the 2 classic settings, I think it's safe to assume that one is Dragonlance because of how that court case went(settling out of court very quickly and the authors saying the new book series is back on track) and I think the second old setting will be Planescape(or less likely, Spelljammer) to facilitate DMs and players traveling all these new settings we're getting.

[verbatim]

I'm almost wondering if they're gonna ultra split Planescape up and do something like:

One of the upcoming books will be just Sigil, and if it does well we'll start to see stuff like a setting book specifically for the Elemental Plane of Water and its neighboring Para and Quasi-Elemental Planes.

[Luccan]

My money is on the revisit being Faerun because Sword Coast Adventures Guide was a huge fumble, as for the 2 classic settings, I think it's safe to assume that one is Dragonlance because of how that court case went(settling out of court very quickly and the authors saying the new book series is back on track) and I think the second old setting will be Planescape(or less likely, Spelljammer) to facilitate DMs and players traveling all these new settings we're getting.

It's worth noting Tasha's has an (admittedly high level) spell that already takes care of travelling between settings, so Planescape and Spelljammer aren't actually needed in that sense

[Millstone85]

I'm almost wondering if they're gonna ultra split Planescape up and do something like:

One of the upcoming books will be just Sigil, and if it does well we'll start to see stuff like a setting book specifically for the Elemental Plane of Water and its neighboring Para and Quasi-Elemental Planes.Then they would have to bring back the Quasi-Elemental Planes in a way that harmonizes with the new position of the Energy Planes in the 5e cosmology.

I am referring to that nonsense:
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5bd88db093a6320f071b1a50/1603112941430-1H4G7LWLKL4NW0JFE116/image-asset.png?format=250w

I would salvage it by saying that the Feywild and the Shadowfell, being positive/negative echoes of the Material, are surrounded by positive/negative echoes of the Elemental Planes.

That would just leave the issue with the DMG confusing the Plane of Ash with the Plane of Smoke. :smallbiggrin:


It's worth noting Tasha's has an (admittedly high level) spell that already takes care of travelling between settings, so Planescape and Spelljammer aren't actually needed in that senseIn addition to being high level, this spell requires either a magic item or a willing creature that was created or born within 1 mile of the destination.

[Luccan]

In addition to being high level, this spell requires either a magic item or a willing creature that was created or born within 1 mile of the destination.

Ultimately it comes down to whether the point is the journey or the destination. If it's the destination, then the DM can always provide the means of travel. In this case, the magic item or willing creature and potentially a means to use the spell for a lower level part. If it's the journey, then Planescape and Spelljammer (especially Spelljammer) are the ideal and Dream of the Blue Veil is just how your high level party can get to a particular sphere quickly if they need to. But if you're looking for a 1st-party excuse to let players setting-hop, they already have one. And it might technically be better than a Spelljammer, at least, because places like Eberron and Athas are notoriously a pain in the butt to get in to/out of.

[ftafp]

i figure if they split the planes up into their own books it's just going to cover sigil, abyss, hell, and maybe one for the astral plane, city of brass, mechanus or the far realms. none of the other planes really get much coverage

[Nifft]

I’ll be honest: this made me think of Shadowrun, and I hope they don’t do a Shadowrun clone.

Agree that we don't need a Shadowrun clone in specific, but a full setting about modern-day Urban Magic which expanded on that one UA article would be useful.

Some kind of updated d20 Modern, with 5e mechanics, and at full power instead of having nerfed basic classes.


Another setting worth saving: Nentir Vale (https://tahlequahpointsoflight.fandom.com/wiki/Nentir_Vale).


Of the settings mentioned so far, my favorites would be Eberron and Planescape, with an eye out for Dark Sun if they roll back or ignore certain published changes.

[MaxWilson]

Ray already ruled MtG settings for the revisit and new settings. Eberron already has two Campaign Setting Books for 5e, Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron and Eberron: Rising from the Last War.

Don't forget Exploring Eberron. https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/315887

It may not have been paid for by WotC but it's still the same guy writing the content.

[Sam113097]

Another setting worth saving: Nentir Vale (https://tahlequahpointsoflight.fandom.com/wiki/Nentir_Vale).

There are dozens of us Nentir Vale fans! Dozens!

Echoing others in this thread, I would love a boxed set format with magic item cards, a map, etc.

I feel like Sigil in particular would be a great setting to re-visit, especially given the evolving player base and preferences of D&D. This is just from my point of view, but it seems to me that many newer players (including myself) tend to gravitate towards a bit more roleplay, NPC interaction, etc., and I think Sigil, as a massive magical city full of cool characters, would be a good fit for that sort of play style.

[Sparky McDibben]

Nentir Vale was great! I steal 4e adventures from there all the time.

[Luccan]

Other than original takes on Tieflings and Dragonborn (which afaik 5e stole entirely), what was so interesting about Nentir Vale? I never played 4e

[Arcturus]

Give me some new DiTerlizzi art in a Sigil/Planescape book and I’ll be happy.

[Nifft]

Other than original takes on Tieflings and Dragonborn (which afaik 5e stole entirely), what was so interesting about Nentir Vale? I never played 4e

- No overarching theme
- No evolving metaplot
- No tie-ins to accommodate
- Flavorful (interesting background lore)
- Generic (the flavor does not get in your way)

It's basically what people say they want from FR, but with none of the baggage that prevents FR from delivering on those things.

[LudicSavant]

- Flavorful (interesting background lore) In what way? Tell us more.

[Nifft]

In what way? Tell us more.

One of the details I remember being impressed with was the ancient empire of the Tieflings, though I don't recall all the details off the top of my head.

The core idea that an ancient empire got so decadent that they started interbreeding with fiends, and of course their decadence led to their downfall, seemed like an excellent fit for a sword-and-sorcery style of game (which I enjoy), and justified some fun D&D tropes:

- Finding a bound fiend in an ancient ruin (duh, for the Tiefling Empire binding a fiend was Tuesday)

- Fiend-worshiping cults who think they're not evil (they're trying to reclaim or replicate some lost imperial glory)

... in addition to adding a layer of flavor over some of the ruins that the PCs would inevitably explore, and giving Tieflings more of a place in the world.

[Twelvetrees]

To elaborate a little more, the Nentir Vale was littered with the remains of fallen empires. As Nifft mentioned, you had the tiefling empire of Bael Turath and it’s devilish associations. It wasn’t only the decadence that led to their downfall, however. They clashed with another power on the world stage.

Their empire existed at the same time as the dragonborn empire of Arkhosia, which gave dragonborn a larger role in the world as well. Honor-bound, militaristic, and driven to improve themselves, Arkhosian dragonborn traits were emphasized as persisting quite heavily in their descendants.

After the fall of Bael Turath and Arkhosia (implied to be many hundreds of years ago), the human empire of Nerath arose. This was basically the Nentir Vale’s reason for why a party could be made up of so many different races. Nerath didn’t favor any over all the others, so many of its great cities were pretty cosmopolitan.

Despite the existence of these past empires, all of them have fallen when the characters start their stories in the Nentir Vale. The landscape is covered in their ruins and buried treasures. Civilization consists of a few towns scattered across a vast wilderness now inhabited by monsters. It’s clear that great heroes have come before, but no one of any repute has done any great deeds for over a hundred years. It’s up to the characters to make their mark on the world and beat back the encroaching darkness.

[Sam113097]

Other than original takes on Tieflings and Dragonborn (which afaik 5e stole entirely), what was so interesting about Nentir Vale? I never played 4e

I never did either, as I started in 5e, but when I was just getting into DMing, I latched onto Nentir Vale because my impression of the Nentir Vale’s “Points of Light” setting was that it was really conducive to classic, heroic, dungeon-delving adventuring parties.

When I was starting out as a new DM, Forgotten Realms’ vast scope, extensive lore, and cast of established characters were pretty intimidating. I felt like it was hard to justify a small band of adventurers taking care of a major problem when Elminster, the Harpers, or some other powerful group could step in. I was also worried that my players, more experienced than me, would know more about the Forgotten Realms and its lore than I, the DM, did. It’s a feeling that I get in several settings.

“Points of Light,” on the other hand, is only a small frontier region with isolated towns recovering from a major societal collapse. I got the impression that it really would be a place where a bunch of low-level adventures could be needed and make a difference. As a new D&D player, it felt more inviting (especially with the simpler cosmology). It also had an interesting "post-post-apocalyptic" vibe to it that interested me. It reminds me a bit of Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild in that way, a few scattered towns built in the ruins of a much larger empire.

I feel that Nentir Vale is a dangerous, ruin-filled wilderness with marginal pockets of civilization, while Forgotten Realms and Eberron looked, to me, like a collection of civilizations with dangerous wildernesses on the margins. I like the former a bit better.

Sadly, I think Nentir Vale died with 4e... but I can dream.

[Vegan Squirrel]

When I was starting out as a new DM, Forgotten Realms’ vast scope, extensive lore, and cast of established characters were pretty intimidating. I felt like it was hard to justify a small band of adventurers taking care of a major problem when Elminster, the Harpers, or some other powerful group could step in. I was also worried that my players, more experienced than me, would know more about the Forgotten Realms and its lore than I, the DM, did. It’s a feeling that I get in several settings.

That sums up a key part of why I'm typically uninterested in running or playing in published campaign settings. The FR gripe about high level NPCs is one thing, frequently noted. But more important by far is the sheer volume of setting lore. If any of my players know the setting, they'll always know more about it than me, which will make things quite difficult. Even if they don't know anything about it, it's far more homework to learn the setting than it is to build your own. As a player, I feel like a drag for not knowing the basics or getting the references other players make. It overwhelmingly feels like it's for other players only, and I'm not in the club.

4e runs counter to my gaming preferences in ways too numerous to count (not to offend anyone, my preferences are just preferences), but everything I've ever heard about the Nentir Vale setting has been good. It's one setting I'd be interested to experience (but with 5e rules), and the "points of light" concept has definitely influenced how I think about settings. I think it would be an excellent choice for a 5e campaign setting book.

[Sigreid]

That sums up a key part of why I'm typically uninterested in running or playing in published campaign settings. The FR gripe about high level NPCs is one thing, frequently noted. But more important by far is the sheer volume of setting lore. If any of my players know the setting, they'll always know more about it than me, which will make things quite difficult. Even if they don't know anything about it, it's far more homework to learn the setting than it is to build your own. As a player, I feel like a drag for not knowing the basics or getting the references other players make. It overwhelmingly feels like it's for other players only, and I'm not in the club.

4e runs counter to my gaming preferences in ways too numerous to count (not to offend anyone, my preferences are just preferences), but everything I've ever heard about the Nentir Vale setting has been good. It's one setting I'd be interested to experience (but with 5e rules), and the "points of light" concept has definitely influenced how I think about settings. I think it would be an excellent choice for a 5e campaign setting book.

The solution to that is to tell them in no uncertain terms that you're taking some of the setting such as the maps and some NPC's for convenience, but the campaign isn't really that setting so much as setting adjacent. Tell them you took it back in the chop shop to make sure the police can't identify it. :smallbiggrin:

[KorvinStarmast]

Nice summary The points of light appeals to me-it reaches back to original D&D 'empire fell, dark ages, mostly a dark and dangerous and chaotic world' feel.
Tieflings and Dragonborns I can do without as PC races - lose them and D&D is still fine.
Heck, I'll even take Dragonborn since dragons can change shape and, like humans, apparently breed with anything that they fancy. Tieflings (in particular the mandatory horns and tail) are (to my eye) a conceptual mess.

I feel that Nentir Vale is a dangerous, ruin-filled wilderness with marginal pockets of civilization, while Forgotten Realms and Eberron looked, to me, like a collection of civilizations with dangerous wildernesses on the margins. I like the former a bit better. Said it better than I could have. :smallsmile:

Tell them you took it back in the chop shop to make sure the police can't identify it. :smallbiggrin: Yep.

[Xervous]

The points of light appeals to me-it reaches back to original D&D 'empire fell, dark ages, mostly a dark and dangerous and chaotic world' feel.
Tieflings and Dragonborns I can do without as PC races - lose them and D&D is still fine.
Heck, I'll even take Dragonborn since dragons can change shape and, like humans, apparently breed with anything that they fancy. Tieflings (in particular the mandatory horns and tail) are (to my eye) a conceptual mess.
Said it better than I could have. :smallsmile:
Yep.

My vote is firmly against Dragonborn but it’s a losing battle. In spreading the awesomeness of dragons so wide and so thin it’s become meaningless. There’s a similar diluting effect with tieflings but it is even more troublesome. Their existence demands detailed setting justification but you don’t find such things in most given settings. Planescape works on the inverse where you’ve got infinites and unfathomables, so what if Joe’s mum is whipping petitioners in the nine hells, you just sold a bag of eyeballs to a chaos frog to clear a debt your future self incurred with an inevitable who decided next week was the right time to collect.

[KorvinStarmast]

My vote is firmly against Dragonborn but it’s a losing battle. In spreading the awesomeness of dragons so wide and so thin it’s become meaningless. I can get behind that position also. :smallsmile:

Unfortunately for my tastes, my brother and my best friend from High School are both playing Dragonborn PCs in the game that I DM, and me indulging in my preference not to have them is not more important than our friendship. :smallsmile:

[Sam113097]

Planescape works on the inverse where you’ve got infinites and unfathomables, so what if Joe’s mum is whipping petitioners in the nine hells, you just sold a bag of eyeballs to a chaos frog to clear a debt your future self incurred with an inevitable who decided next week was the right time to collect.

... And you've just sold me on Planescape as a setting. Now I'm really hoping it's one of the re-released settings.

[Luccan]

Ya know, its been years since I've seen any 4e art, but I would swear their version of the explicitly fiendish looking Tieflings looked better. But I only skimmed the PHB a couple of times. What I can say is none of the Tieflings pictures in any 5e book has been all that compelling. I like Dragonborn conceptually, their 5e implementation was lackluster and they seem to lack presence in official setting materials so far. They feel apart from the game in a way Tieflings and especially more standard races don't.

Anyway, I kinda also want a really out there choice for a setting to bring back. Don't know what that would be.

[Arkhios]

Ya know, its been years since I've seen any 4e art, but I would swear their version of the explicitly fiendish looking Tieflings looked better. But I only skimmed the PHB a couple of times. What I can say is none of the Tieflings pictures in any 5e book has been all that compelling. I like Dragonborn conceptually, their 5e implementation was lackluster and they seem to lack presence in official setting materials so far. They feel apart from the game in a way Tieflings and especially more standard races don't.

Anyway, I kinda also want a really out there choice for a setting to bring back. Don't know what that would be.

For what it's worth, an official Dragonlance book could be a welcome tonic for the dragonborn, as it has been suggested from the (IIRC) very first UA article that you could model the draconians based on dragonborn, potentially making the 5th edition dragonborn more interesting.



Oh and by the way, in case it hasn't already been mentioned up-thread, I think I know what the new format will be.

There have been a preview of Magic: the Gathering Adventures in the Forgotten Realms (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/adventures-forgotten-realms-mechanics-2021-07-30), which essentially seems to be fusing the card game with D&D oriented adventures. There will be an entirely new card type called "Dungeons".

And there's this card among others to support the concept (pay attention to the third ability)
https://media.mtgsalvation.com/attachments/174/621/637605872732682619.jpg

[Corsair14]

For what it's worth, an official Dragonlance book could be a welcome tonic for the dragonborn, as it has been suggested from the (IIRC) very first UA article that you could model the draconians based on dragonborn, potentially making the 5th edition dragonborn more interesting.



There's a lot of good 5e Draconian support out there for both metallic and Noble draconians. I hope they dont water down draconians to fit with the more boring dragonborn. For one because of the setting and the balance, the fact that Draconians are evil for the most part, self-serving lawful neutral at best for the more unique independent minded, is an ingrained part of draconian personality. On the same token, noble draconians would be good alignments even though there are only a handful of them still alive, again, a function of how they were created and the balance. Further the death throes of draconians is one of the more awesome and unique aspects of the race that I would see having a hard time mixing with dragonborn. Kill a dragonborn and he dies. Kill a draconian and he could do everything from turn to stone and encapsulate the weapon that killed him, turn into a pool of acid, to explode in a large fireball. They will also need to find a way to balance(rules this time) having large flying PCs in the Sivac and Lighning draconians. Even the third party stuff out there struggles with this.

As my absolute favorite race in DnD I would hate to see Wizards screw them up and not do them justice.

As for the presence of tieflings and dragonborn in current settings. They are supposed to be extremely rare freaks. The only place you should encounter tieflings on a regular basis is Sigil. Seeing a dragonborn should be something momentous. Most villages will still run either of them out for being demons with pitchforks and torches. Only the newer cuddly fluffy Waterdeep and its official silly rules about everyone is welcome would you ever see them.

[KorvinStarmast]

Further the death throes of draconians is one of the more awesome and unique aspects of the race That is part of why I never liked them.

As my absolute favorite race in DnD I would hate to see Wizards screw them up and not do them justice. Better to leave them rotting in their graves alongside the deep fried kender. :smallyuk: (Yes, it's a matter of taste).

The only place you should encounter tieflings on a regular basis is Sigil. Seeing a dragonborn should be something momentous. Yep, that feels about right to me, but tastes will differ on that also. :smallsmile:

[ProsecutorGodot]

Yep, that feels about right to me, but tastes will differ on that also. :smallsmile:

That tends to be the case as far as written modules go, except for the instances where an entire party of players is comprised of the most exotic races in the realm.

[Luccan]

The reason Dragonborn feel apart to me is they explicitly aren't even really tied into dragons except by the loosest of terms. In comparison to Tieflings, who feel more tied into lore about the Nine Hells, fiendish plots, and the like. Wizards transferred a race that was an artificial, willing creation in service to the good-aligned dragon god to a naturally occurring one and kicked their draconic ancestry so far into the past the predominant scale color in lore is brown and they don't feel like they have any more than the barest connection to any lore anywhere.

I guess when I think about Tieflings, I think about what it means for them to be one in a D&D setting. When I think about Dragonborn, it doesn't feel like that means anything or has an impact. I appreciate both Colville's and Mercer's work on them in their respective settings because just like being an elf or dwarf or half-orc have impact from the setting you're in, so does being a Dragonborn. Different approaches (Colville certainly tries to keep them rare), but it doesn't feel like an afterthought.

Meanwhile Wizards decided to keep Dragonborn a core race, while making FR the default setting, and then refusing to update FR in any way that makes it feel like these dragon people are part of it. They're not even like Tieflings, because Tieflings usually happen without expectation as a result of a mystical beings influence, while 5e Dragonborn are a species. Why does this intelligent species with a large enough population to sustain itself not feel like part of any active settings!?

Ok, apparently I had more thoughts on this than I realized. I might pop a thread up on the topic.

But there's another hope more relevant to the thread: whatever settings come out next, new or old, I want them to at least have a place in the world for Dragonborn.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I made my dragonborn be an originally artificial race, created from humans by infusing unborn children with dragon soul fragments. That empire imploded (in part due to the methods used to get the pregnant women for these experiments), but the dragonborn lived on and bred true.

There's also a "race" of primal dragonborn, where hobgoblins that live around dragons for enough generations become partially draconic in nature. Same really as kobolds, but that's goblins.