Clockwork Soul Sorcerer: how to mesh mechanus flavor with the Yuan-ti race?

[Merudo]

I love the Clockwork Soul Sorcerer subclass, both mechanically and flavor-wise.

The Clockwork Soul theme fits perfectly with the Dwarf race, as Dwarves are lawful and associated with engineering. It also works fine with common races with not much flavor, such as Humans, Halflings or Elves.

However, I struggle to combine the flavor of the class with most exotic racial choices, especially the Yuan-ti.

With the Yuan-ti, it is already a struggle to explain why your character is out and about exploring instead of working toward the ultimate destruction of the world or whatever. On top of that, the Clockwork Soul Yuan-ti has to explain why they can call forth the power of the lawful, bizarre clockwork-like plane of Mechanus.

Add to the character the Fey Touched feat and now you got a real mess of a character.

Any idea on how to mesh the flavor of the Clockwork Soul with the Yuan-ti in a compelling manner?

[Naanomi]

I don't know about the feytouched bit... but 'The Serpents of Law' are prominent figures in early Planar history; they both lived in Mechanus originally... I'd start there

[SharkForce]

I love the Clockwork Soul Sorcerer subclass, both mechanically and flavor-wise.

The Clockwork Soul theme fits perfectly with the Dwarf race, as Dwarves are lawful and associated with engineering. It also works fine with common races with not much flavor, such as Humans, Halflings or Elves.

However, I struggle to combine the flavor of the class with most exotic racial choices, especially the Yuan-ti.

With the Yuan-ti, it is already a struggle to explain why your character is out and about exploring instead of working toward the ultimate destruction of the world or whatever. On top of that, the Clockwork Soul Yuan-ti has to explain why they can call forth the power of the lawful, bizarre clockwork-like plane of Mechanus.

Add to the character the Fey Touched feat and now you got a real mess of a character.

Any idea on how to mesh the flavor of the Clockwork Soul with the Yuan-ti in a compelling manner?

simple.

the mechanics have very little that emphasizes the clockwork nature. negating advantage and disadvantage? not terribly clockwork-y to me. special access to 2 schools of spells? not particularly clockwork-y. preventing damage? not particularly clockwork-y.

I could go on, but in essence that trend continues. ignore the flavour and nothing seems particularly like clockwork. so just refluff it. you can negate advantage or disadvantage because of your crazy scheming. you can prevent damage because of your thick reptilian skin. and so on.

[Lord Raziere]

well one way is magical clockwork cybernetics. this can be achieved in a few ways: the yuan-ti wanted power from Mechanus for whatever reason and made a deal with them and the form of power involved implanting some mechanical bits into them, or they lost a limb and somehow mechanus was involved in getting a magical clockwork replacement.

Or perhaps they didn't like how yuan-ti societyworks and simply sought out the order of mechanus, or perhaps their parents did something to break some rule of Mechanus and got cursed or punished in some manner that resulted in their child having these powers, or perhaps the yuan-ti themselves is a rulebreaker who chafes having some imposition of Mechanuses law over themselves.

at the same time, many ways to express order other than engineering: mathematics, astrology, astronomy, architecture, geometry, so on and so forth. Yuan-ti known for building temples, Mechanus wouldn't reject these forms of order just because they are not gears. perhaps comes from a certain yuan-ti town or city that isn't like all the others, likes the order of mathematics and astrology more than most and incorporates it into their magic, who knows?

[Merudo]

I don't know about the feytouched bit... but 'The Serpents of Law' are prominent figures in early Planar history; they both lived in Mechanus originally... I'd start there

Interesting. Are you referring to Jazirian, the lawful good couatl deity? Maybe it could work.

[Merudo]

simple.

the mechanics have very little that emphasizes the clockwork nature. negating advantage and disadvantage? not terribly clockwork-y to me. special access to 2 schools of spells? not particularly clockwork-y. preventing damage? not particularly clockwork-y.

I could go on, but in essence that trend continues. ignore the flavour and nothing seems particularly like clockwork. so just refluff it. you can negate advantage or disadvantage because of your crazy scheming. you can prevent damage because of your thick reptilian skin. and so on.

Clockwork spells center heavily on defense (alarm, protection from evil and good, dispel magic, protection from energy, wall of force) and on helping others (aid, lesser/greater restoration, freedom of movement).

[Millstone85]

I don't know about the feytouched bit... but 'The Serpents of Law' are prominent figures in early Planar history; they both lived in Mechanus originally... I'd start there
Interesting. Are you referring to Jazirian, the lawful good couatl deity? Maybe it could work.And their lawful evil twin Ahriman, of whom Asmodeus may or may not be an avatar.

Both serpent deities are slumbering, one on Mount Celestia and the other deep down in Baator, still healing from the wounds they gave each other eons ago, which would be well in line with the rest of the yuan-ti pantheon.

There is also a rumored third sibling, who would be lawful neutral. While my headcanon is that the city of Sigil was built on their sleeping body (as they, of course, bite their own tail) they could instead be somewhere in Mechanus.

[borg286]

Consider looking at seven of nine. The yuan-ti and Borg seek perfection. The mechanical nature of their minds/society helps flesh out the mechanical parts of your subclass.

[Willie the Duck]

Consider looking at seven of nine. The yuan-ti and Borg seek perfection. The mechanical nature of their minds/society helps flesh out the mechanical parts of your subclass.

I have two default concepts for Yuan-ti characters -- 1)they are infiltrating societies looking for ways to foster their race's grand plans, or 2) their particular group was wiped out and now they are adrift without purpose looking for something new to believe in. Seven kinda-sorta has that too, not really able to go back and looking for a new role in the universe that still fits her context for what one is supposed to value and prefer and stuff. I can see a Yuan-ti whose main clan was wiped out (by a poorly made deal with a hag, or similar, to help the OP with their fey-touched justification) looking for a new 'something to believe in' and landing on order, perfection, geometry, something like that.

[Naanomi]

Interesting. Are you referring to Jazirian, the lawful good couatl deity? Maybe it could work.
Note that Jazirian and Ahriman (and any rumored third) are... Very old. At the very least one of the very first beings of Law in the Cosmos, and by some tellings predating the Outer Planes themselves by a significant timeframe (sometimes being named among the servants of the Eldest who fought against the Draeden in a time before the Great Wheel).

They didn't split up until sometime during the War of Law and Chaos... Ancient history by mortal standards, but all fairly recent in the grand scheme of things

[Catullus64]

The text for the Yuan-Ti in the Monster Manual describes them as the degenerate offspring of an ancient and decadent empire. They saw in the serpent a model of clean, emotionless, and efficient beauty, superior to the rash and animalistic nature of the human form.

The flavor text for the Clockwork Soul simply says that your soul has been suffused by cosmic forces of order. It uses Mechanus as the most well-known example, but nothing about the actual subclass features require any theming of gears and wheels and literal clockwork; the phrase "clockwork efficiency" doesn't have to be literal. The Clockwork Soul powers are all centered around more abstract notions of order. The rituals in which Yuan-Ti partake, through which they seek to obtain serene, emotionless, ophidian perfection, eventually ascending to pure serpent-hood, seem like a perfect catalyst for transforming the soul in such a way that it would manifest these powers.

As for the Fey-Touched bit... I'd say just don't take it, given how anathema it seems to the rest of the character influences. Unless of course, your character sees being touched by the Faerie as a curse, a foul infection of chaos, and they seek greater, darker magics with which to cleanse their soul of its taint.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Honestly, an interesting path might be to go with the Golden Ratio.

1:1.6

It exists all through nature, from the math detailing nautiloid shells to the length of fingerbones. IT definitely counts as a "cosmic force of order."

[Catullus64]

Honestly, an interesting path might be to go with the Golden Ratio.

1:1.6

It exists all through nature, from the math detailing nautiloid shells to the length of fingerbones. IT definitely counts as a "cosmic force of order."

"As man is to the serpent, so the serpent is to the god. Where man and serpent are made one, there will godhead be."

A more abstract expression of the golden ratio, as it were, suitable to Yuan-Ti use. (A ratio wherein the smaller magnitude has to the greater the same ratio that the greater has to their sum.)

[micahaphone]

What about a yuan-ti who is an outcast from normal yuan-ti society, they left after some typical evil scheming and backstabbery saw their family/their friend / their mate killed or used in a sacrifice or something, and they snuck away in the night, no longer sure of the goals they have so far dedicated their life to.

While wandering and trying to find a place in life, they begin to study the few things they feel sure in - the stars, the cosmos, pure mathematics, or the very history of the cosmos. Your studies lead to finding a lost modron who fell during the last march, or a forgotten temple that acts as a node point, restoring to functionality, or some other fundamental point of balance. This granted them power and a purpose in life.

[Millstone85]

The Clockwork Soul powers are all centered around more abstract notions of order. The rituals in which Yuan-Ti partake, through which they seek to obtain serene, emotionless, ophidian perfection, eventually ascending to pure serpent-hood, seem like a perfect catalyst for transforming the soul in such a way that it would manifest these powers.Which makes the core of the yuan-ti pantheon highly ironic:

Merrshaulk, the ancient conqueror? A power of the Abyss.
Sseth, the modern conspirator? Also a power of the Abyss.
Dendar, the sun eater? Hades, so not chaotic but still not lawful.

And the typical yuan-ti is neutral evil yet speaks Abyssal. :smallamused:

But that's okay. Clockwork sorcery could come as a resurgence of the original ophidian philosophy. This would also explain why the character no longer hangs out with other yuan-ti.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I thought that Dendar was an Elder Evil, not a god(dess)?

Unless it got changed in the Great 4E Shift...

[Evaar]

When thinking of a way to combine Yuan-Ti, Clockwork Soul, and the Fae Touched feats, I boil them down to snakes, order, and anything fey.

Obiously the Yuan-Ti are a lot more than snakes, but most of the existing flavor makes them an odd fit for adventurer anyway so I usually imagine them to be either exceptional individuals who are mostly disconnected from Yuan-Ti society or someone whose nature makes them snake-like in ways expressed by the race's mechanics. If I was crazy enough to try to play a Green Draconic Sorcerer, for example, I'd probably make it a Yuan-Ti and say the character is just actually related to green dragons.

Clockwork Soul's default flavor describes Mechanus and Modrons, but any sort of Lawful cosmic force should work. Devils are lawful beings, so you could reflavor the subclass around infernal contracts. You can also order it around classical ideas of fate as a sort of weaver of infinite webs or master of the endless loom. This is less about reading the future like a Diviner, and more about interacting with the principles of fate or destiny to achieve the outcome you need. In some conceptions, Fey are very lawful creatures (despite often being described as chaotic) because they are bound by a specific kind of logic and etiquette; they act according to oaths, contracts, and traditions that are alien to most mortals. Looking at the Fey Hobgoblin from UA, reciprocity is an important part of Fey nature - returning acts of kindness or cruelty. But you also have examples of this kind of thing all over folklore and D&D lore - laws of hospitality, of nobility, of tribute, of duels, of names.

So how do all of these come together? My first thought is the Cthaeh from the Kingkiller series. (https://kingkiller.fandom.com/wiki/The_Cthaeh) Read the description, envision it as a snake with seemingly endless coils wrapped in the branches of a great tree. You made the mistake of speaking to it and it told you things that you barely understand, whispering its enlightening venom into your ears. It changed you - both physically and mentally, as you now see the tangled threads of causality binding the actions of everything. You can't follow these threads for long, but you have learned how to pluck the strings at just the right moment to change the effect to suit your needs.

In short, make a new Archfey that hits all the notes you want to hit. You didn't make a pact with it; it changed you inherently and set you loose. Perhaps it has a plan in mind and you unknowingly serve it. Perhaps it just wanted to see what would happen. But it doesn't ask you for anything or even speak to you if you approach it, so you can never really be sure.

[Millstone85]

I thought that Dendar was an Elder Evil, not a god(dess)?According to VGtM, the serpent gods include true deities but also "primordial spirits as powerful as gods", demon lords and more. The book lists Dendar, Merrshaulk and Sseth as the primary deities of the yuan-ti, but whether that confirms them as true deities is up to interpretation.

Anyway, Dendar is called a great old one in the PHB and SCAG, and an elder evil in MToF. I remember asking what the difference was, but I forgot the answer. Then there is the question of whether you can be those and a deity. I think Tharizdun would say yes.

[Temperjoke]

You know, it's possible that you're overthinking the entire situation. I mean, isn't it entirely possible that the reason why your Yuan-ti Pureblood is out as an adventurer is because you've been exposed to these extra-planar influences, and thus no longer fit in with the Yuan-ti caste-based society? You left because you were different, or were cast out, and now you're trying to find a new niche in life.

[Second Wind]

A Yuan-ti is a person. What prevents a person from being a Clockwork Soul Sorcerer?

[Merudo]

A Yuan-ti is a person. What prevents a person from being a Clockwork Soul Sorcerer?

From the Monster Manual:


Yuan-ti are devious serpent folk devoid of compassion. From remote temples in jungles, swamps, and deserts, the yuan-ti plot to supplant and dominate all other races and to make themselves gods.

[Lord Raziere]

From the Monster Manual:

Absolutely nothing about that prevents them from using the clockwork soul powers in some manner. all those spells and abilities can be used to aid in domination. to an evil person, aiding other people is just a form of manipulation to make them loyal so you use them as you see fit. I'd argue a control freak who wants to dominate others would be more likely to seek out such power over order than other people even.

[Millstone85]

From the Monster Manual:Even if your character stays true to that description, as well as neutral evil, they still have the option to turn away from abyssal serpents and look at infernal ones instead. Maybe that's why they became an outcast, or maybe they are from such a tribe (in which case you could replace the Abyssal language with Infernal).

Similarly:

You could look at how the chaotic evil god Gruumsh was able to durably install his armies on the plane of Acheron, so he can forever battle the lawful evil Maglubiyet. Your character could serve a neutral or chaotic evil serpent who has also chosen that plane of mechanical warfare.
Your character worked with arms dealers specializing in fiendish constructs like cadaver collectors, hellfire engines, retrievers or steel predators (all in MToF). Then a lab accident left you full of lawful evil shrapnel.
Since yuan-ti purebloods can reproduce with humans, you could discover that one of your ancestors was a chosen of Gond or some other deity of human craftmen.
As your people were reclaiming one of their ancient temples from a wizard, you discovered a portal to the Spawning Stone. A surge of Limboid chaos hit the Stone and ricocheted on you, leaving you with a random gift for lawful magic.
Because you thought them blasphemous, you participated in the destruction of dozens of iron cobras (MToF p125). This got you the ire of a fey lord friend to all gnomes, and you are now cursed to transform into an iron cobra whenever the moon is full. You are, however, determined to turn that curse to your advantage.

Edit: I got something else.

A major part of the worship of lesser serpent gods is the attempt to supplant said deities, and there is actually a high turnover of yuan-ti godlings. Do you know who that could bother? The varakhuts, old-edition inevitables who exist precisely to prevent deicide.

Your character could have studied the forces of Mechanus as preparation for this encounter. Or, they could already have come close to killing a serpent god, only for a varakhut to depower them, and now what magic they have left is tainted with the power of Law.

[Naanomi]

Dendar is definitely not a God in the 'Power that has clerics it empowers with spells, has a divine domain, fueled by and dependant on worship' sense

He, Kezef the chaos-hound and... Ityak-Ortheel... Were spirits 'left over' in Realmspace when AO came and started creating things. They are primordial enemies of the Gods of Toril, but essentially only a presence on that Prime world (4e, as it did, changed it all but, as I do, I ignore almost all of that)

[Millstone85]

Dendar is definitely not a God in the 'Power that has clerics it empowers with spells, has a divine domain, fueled by and dependant on worship' senseThat would explain why the priest of Dendar statted in VGtM "knows the following warlock spells" instead of cleric ones.

Hmm, so do the priest of Sseth and the priest of Merrshaulk. The flavor text further confirms that they all made a pact.

So maybe none of the core yuan-ti pantheon is divine in that sense. Which is good for them because "The detached, intellectual nature of the yuan-ti doesn't lend itself to fervent or devout worship in the manner that others revere their deities" (VGtM p93, Gods of the Yuan-ti"). It sounds like that, were they faith-eaters, they would starve.


He, Kezef the chaos-hound and... Ityak-Ortheel... Were spirits 'left over' in Realmspace when AO came and started creating things. They are primordial enemies of the Gods of Toril, but essentially only a presence on that Prime world (4e, as it did, changed it all but, as I do, I ignore almost all of that)If you deplore multi-world generalization, I think that you are blaming the wrong edition.

The weirdness of 4e is that, while it gave all settings the same cosmological model, it did not give them a shared cosmos. What I mean is that each book would describe the Astral Sea and the Elemental Chaos as sandwiching one single mortal world, which depending on the book would be Nerath, Abeir-Toril, Athas or Eberron.

Also, doing a quick word search through my PDFs, it looks like 4e only mentioned Dendar in Abeir-Toril documents.

[Eriol]

You know, it's possible that you're overthinking the entire situation. I mean, isn't it entirely possible that the reason why your Yuan-ti Pureblood is out as an adventurer is because you've been exposed to these extra-planar influences, and thus no longer fit in with the Yuan-ti caste-based society? You left because you were different, or were cast out, and now you're trying to find a new niche in life.
This. My wild magic sorcerer Yuan-ti is completely crazy, driven by her emotions. Think Harley Quinn except less understanding of why hurting people is bad, but still feeling how much fun it is. It was wild magic that drove her to be different in all the ways that a Yuan-ti "couldn't" be without severe intervention, despite her race having free will.

The planar influences themselves made your character different. And maybe for the OP's example, they were touched by mechanus, but then a mischievous Fey came along and "blessed" them as well, just to throw a bit of a "Fey Wrench" into Mechanus's "perfect" servant.

Or something else entirely. Whatever you'd like!

[Naanomi]

Note that Fey are not inherently associated with Chaos... The cycles of the seasons and ruling courts, the power of Oaths, the hyperfocus on the letter of the law rather than the intent... All very Lawful in the cosmological sense

[Ogun]

Basically, stop worrying about being an actual Yuan-ti , and just be the illegitimate love child of order and chaos.
Honestly, if you want your character to be all of these things for reasons other than optimization, the origen story should already exist.
If optimization is the reason, don't worry so much about lore.
Cast this as a love story, with the character as a love child.
Two beings, one serpentine and fey the other mechanical and lawful, united in an inexplicable union, from which a child is born.
Placed with unwitting mortals to be raised, exhibiting strange powers from a young age, this fractal snake child sets out from where they grew up to find out who they really are.

It's got plenty of hooks, maybe even a struggle between law and chaos for the rights to your soul,and you are not even really an orphan, so we avoid that cliche!