Best/Most accessible Unarmored AC

[Nagog]

Hey all!

I find myself consistently making characters that don't typically wear armor (more aesthetic than anything, but even so). While there are readily accessible options for Unarmored Defense for Wisdom based characters (via Monk) and Martial characters (Via Barbarian), does anybody know of some good options for Unarmored Defense options for Int or Cha based characters?

[Snowbluff]

Tortle gets a flat 17, which is just as good as medium armor.

Mage Armor is the typical spell option. Furthermore, I think Dragon Sorcerer gets a form of it.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Wizard (Bladesinger) 2 get a pretty reliable source.

There's also barkskin.

[Slipjig]

Do you have an INT or CHA based character you are planning to have on the front lines? The game is calibrated with the assumption that your class will wear armor if you can. Sure, you CAN play a Fighter in a Speedo, but you'll be at a serious disadvantage.

[Mobius Twist]

I'm running a Lizardfolk Battlesmith Artificer right now. AC is 13+Dex, plus I can enhance it with things like a shield, magic items I make, and the spell Shield that the subclass gets from level 3.

[Verble]

If you're look at a Charisma based AC bonuses for unarmored, have a look at dragon Sorcerer (AC of 13+Dex) and the magic items Masks of the Dragon Queen(https://www.tribality.com/2014/11/05/dragon-masks-tyranny-of-dragons/), which among other abilities allows you to add your charisma bonus to you AC.

If you have access to the Midgard Setting by Kobold Press there is a Fighter subclass that can add their charisma bonus to their AC at third level

Instead of dipping that class for my Dexadin build I used the UA Aberrant Mind Sorcerer which got an AC base of 13+dex+shield

You could also go with lizardfolk like I did with my moon druid. I had ridiculous good stats and his AC is 19 with a shield. Let's me play a higher AC mode if I don't want to wildshape for some reason.

[Yakmala]

Play a Tortle Bladesigner.

Cap your Int at 20 by Level 8, giving you a +5 bonus to your natural AC 0f 17 during Bladesong. That's an AC of 22 with no armor, shield or magic items. You can boost that to 27 as a reaction with the Shield spell and make yourself even harder to hit with mirror image or blur.

[Witty Username]

Mage armor isn't bad, assuming that doesn't hurt the immersion too much.

[Ogun]

My favorite 3.5 characters were casters with wisdom to AC, so I feel yah on the esthetics.
I'm playing an crocadilian lizardfolk right now and this was the main reason.
A monk dip would be ok except it can't add a shields AC.
That is just leaving meat on the table.
Next time I will consider taking the warlock invocation feat for Mage Armor at will, but that is an ASI spent when you could just be a croc or a turtle.

[Anymage]

If you just like the look of being unarmored, glamoured studded leather can make any lightly armored dex type look like whatever you want them to. Mage Armor does similar, but then you're imposing on the slots of a caster ally.

[Greywander]

For "best", I think the highest unarmored AC you can get, excluding some more niche bonuses, is to be a warforged (+1 AC) barbarian (AC is 10 + DEX mod + CON mod) with a shield +3 (another +5 AC) and one of the dragon masks (add your CHA mod to AC), and then using either the manuals/tomes or using the optional rules for buying ASIs at 20th level, push all your ability scores up to 30. You final AC calculation will be 10 + 10 (DEX) + 10 (CON) + 10 (CHA) + 5 (shield) + 1 (warforged) = 46 total AC. There are other bonuses you could stack on, like a Cloak/Ring of Protection, Shield of Faith, or Defensive Duelist, but the highest AC you can actually use is currently 39, as that's enough AC to make every published monster need to roll a 20 to hit you.

For accessible AC, monk and barbarian are the obvious ones. There's also Mage Armor, which can be obtained via a warlock invocation for at will casting (not recommended), or from Magic Initiate (recommended, as you probably won't need to cast it more than once a day), assuming you don't already get it from your class. Dragon sorcs also get a base AC of 13 + DEX mod, as can lizardfolk. All of these options, however, are reliant on having high DEX to maximize your AC. If you're not a DEX build, then tortle gets you a base AC of 17. There are probably other options, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

In general, your best options are either 10 + DEX mod + other stat mod (monk and barbarian), 13 + DEX mod (Mage Armor, dragon sorc, lizardfolk), or flat 17 (tortle).

INT and CHA characters are kind of out of luck. You can try to get by with a mediocre DEX, or go with a tortle. If homebrew is an option, you could try to get a homebrew version of Unarmored Defense that keys off of INT or CHA, or possible a magic item that gives you the AC of medium armor without being armor.

Actually, I forgot that the bladesinger wizard gets to add their INT mod to AC, but only while using bladesong. So there is that. It's pretty specific, though, and I don't like that it's not always on, but it might be what you're looking for. And although it isn't always on, it will stack with things like Mage Armor.

[gloryblaze]

Loxodon gets 12+Con if you’re not going for a Dex-based character

[Amnestic]

Niche, of course, but potentially worth exploring: Page 287 of the DMG has options for DM to trade a certain (sub)classes armour proficiencies for Unarmoured Defense.



CHANGING PROFICIENCIES
Changing a class's proficiencies is a safe and simple way to modify a class to better reflect your world. Swapping out one skill or tool proficiency for another doesn't make a character any stronger or weaker, but doing so can change the flavor of a class in subtle ways.

For example, a prominent guild of rogues in your world might worship a patron deity, performing secret missions in that deity's name. To reflect this cultural detail, you could add Religion to the list of skills that a rogue character can choose as a proficiency. You could even mandate that skill as one of the choices for rogues who belong to this guild.

You can also change armor and weapon proficiencies to reflect certain aspects of your world. For example, you could decide that the clerics of a particular deity belong to an order that forbids the accumulation of material goods, other than magic items useful for their divine mission. Such clerics carry a staff, but they are forbidden from wearing armor or using weapons other than that staff. To reflect this, you could remove the armor and weapon proficiencies for clerics of this faith, making them proficient with the quarterstaff and nothing else. You could give them a benefit to make up for the loss of proficiencies - something like the monk's Unarmored Defense class feature, but presented as a divine blessing.

Unarmoured Paladin could follow a similar logic (Dex/Cha rather than Dex/Wis of course). Just gotta swing it with your DM.

[LudicSavant]

- Any Dex-maxing character matches the AC of full plate while wearing Mage Armor (either cast by themselves or another). For example, this Eldritch Knight (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24681222&postcount=523) is a very high AC tank that doesn't need to wear any armor, or even carry any weapons.

Paladins, Fighters, Rogues, and gishes (especially Bladesingers) all make strong Dex/Int and Dex/Cha builds.

- Any character with 20 Constitution can match the AC of medium armor as a Loxodon.

- Any Tortle will have that medium armor AC regardless of their stats.

- A Warforged, Simic Hybrid, or Beasthide Shifter can match that Tortle AC with just 16 Dex + Mage Armor (and the Beasthide Shifter will have buckets of temp HP on top). Other races can match it with 18 Dex + Mage Armor. A Lizardfolk can do it with just the 18 Dex.

- The Shield spell is one of the best ways to get burst AC.

- AC synergizes with Disadvantage (as in, the more AC you have, the better it is to grant Disadvantage to hit), so any way to grab it on top of this stuff is valuable. Blind-Fighting, for instance.

- There are also alternative defenses to just AC. For example an Int or Cha-based character might use Flames of Phlegethos, Fire Shield, Armor of Agathys, Hellish Rebuke, and things that boost them (damage reduction and Contingency combos with AoA, Hexblade's Curse combos with Phlegethos and Fire Shield and Hellish Rebuke damage, Overchannel and Contingency combo with Fire Shield, Phlegethos itself boosts Hellish Rebuke and Fire Shield, etc etc) can make it basically suicidal to target you with attacks.

[clash]

I didn't see it mentioned but warlocks also get mage armor at will via an invocation.

[quindraco]

- Any Dex-maxing character matches the AC of full plate while wearing Mage Armor (either cast by themselves or another). For example, this Eldritch Knight (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24681222&postcount=523) is a very high AC tank that doesn't need to wear any armor, or even carry any weapons.

Paladins, Fighters, Rogues, and gishes (especially Bladesingers) all make strong Dex/Int and Dex/Cha builds.

- Any character with 20 Constitution can match the AC of medium armor as a Loxodon.

- Any Tortle will have that medium armor AC regardless of their stats.

- A Warforged, Simic Hybrid, or Beasthide Shifter can match that Tortle AC with just 16 Dex + Mage Armor (and the Beasthide Shifter will have buckets of temp HP on top). Other races can match it with 18 Dex + Mage Armor. A Lizardfolk can do it with just the 18 Dex.

- The Shield spell is one of the best ways to get burst AC.

- AC synergizes with Disadvantage (as in, the more AC you have, the better it is to grant Disadvantage to hit), so any way to grab it on top of this stuff is valuable. Blind-Fighting, for instance.

- There are also alternative defenses to just AC. For example an Int or Cha-based character might use Flames of Phlegethos, Fire Shield, Armor of Agathys, Hellish Rebuke, and things that boost them (damage reduction and Contingency combos with AoA, Hexblade's Curse combos with Phlegethos and Fire Shield and Hellish Rebuke damage, Overchannel and Contingency combo with Fire Shield, Phlegethos itself boosts Hellish Rebuke and Fire Shield, etc etc) can make it basically suicidal to target you with attacks.

Warforged trick doesn't work - Simic Hybrid is while not wearing heavy armor and beasthide shifter is while shifted, so those both work, but warforged requires you to be wearing armor, and mage armor doesn't count. OP wants an unarmored build, although it's not clear if barrier tattoos count.

Worth noting is that the Bladesinger trick stacks with everything (including barrier tattoos), so there are many ways to build around it, although since you can't wear medium or heavy armor or carry a shield, it can take a while to reach truly absurd AC levels. For example: a bladesinger2/monk1/fighter16 starting at 16/16/16 in dex, int, and wis is AC 25 from ASIs while naked, at character level 19, and you can get it to 26 with e.g. simic hybrid.

Or, to Ludic's excellent point about Loxodons, a Loxodon Moon Druid 18/Bladesinger 2 with Con 20, Int 20, Wis 16 wild shaped into a mammoth is rocking AC 22. Bladesinger in general is great for Moon Druids, since the bonus AC stacks with all natural armor.

[LudicSavant]

but warforged requires you to be wearing armor

No, it doesn't.

[Gurgeh]

You could argue that the Warforged's RAI wouldn't let their integrated protection work with Mage Armour or the like, but by RAW it clearly does work. The first bullet point is a straightforward "you gain a +1 bonus to armour class" with no strings attached.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Warforged trick doesn't work - Simic Hybrid is while not wearing heavy armor and beasthide shifter is while shifted, so those both work, but warforged requires you to be wearing armor, and mage armor doesn't count. OP wants an unarmored build, although it's not clear if barrier tattoos count.

I believe that the warforged from the pre-Rising UA required armor, but the published version is just a flat AC bonus.

[quindraco]

No, it doesn't.

Huh, you're right! I could swear the last time I read their ability it required armor, but you're right, it's a flat +1.

[RogueJK]

You may have conflated it with the Defense fighting style, which gives you +1 AC specifically when wearing armor.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Tasha's has the Barrier Tattoos, which give you 13+Dex / 15+Dex (max +2) / flat 18 AC.

Otherwise, maybe ask for a custom feat? My Guide to Greatness has "Agile Fistfighter," which gives you 13+Dex AC when not wearing armor or using a shield and turns your unarmed strikes into 1d4 light finesse weapons.

[greenstone]

…some good options for Unarmored Defense options for Int or Cha based characters?
Other party members?
In other words, "hide behind the tanks." :-)

[loki_ragnarock]

Tasha's has the Barrier Tattoos, which give you 13+Dex / 15+Dex (max +2) / flat 18 AC.


So I went to look at these, thinking that there had to be some tradeoff to balance out giving armor proficiency away, like increased rarity or permanent attunement or somesuch.

Nope. They are just better than the Bracers of Defense at lower rarity, and you can take them off just the same.

What were they thinking?

[Amnestic]

So I went to look at these, thinking that there had to be some tradeoff to balance out giving armor proficiency away, like increased rarity or permanent attunement or somesuch.

Nope. They are just better than the Bracers of Defense at lower rarity, and you can take them off just the same.

What were they thinking?

Bracers of Defense work with Barrier Tattoos, if you want to blow two attunement slots on it. Bracers of Defense also work with unarmoured defense, mage armour, or other natural armours like Tortle or Dragon Sorcerer, that don't work with barrier tattoos. They're not "better" or "worse", they're filling different albeit similar roles.

I don't see what's egregious about barrier tattoos.

[Nounverber]

So I went to look at these, thinking that there had to be some tradeoff to balance out giving armor proficiency away, like increased rarity or permanent attunement or somesuch.

Nope. They are just better than the Bracers of Defense at lower rarity, and you can take them off just the same.

What were they thinking?

They take up an attunement slot and you can't wear armor. They're also not better optimization wise than using the same type of armor +1 but you can be a wizard or something with 18 ac for an attunement slot

[Segev]

Bracers of Defense also work for monks and barbarians (albeit barbarians could use a shield more cheaply if they're not two-handing a weapon). Tasha's armor tattoos overwrite Unarmored Defense if they're better, and don't do anything if they're not better.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Play a Tortle Bladesigner.

Ask to play a Tortle, and a chortle, may be your reply🃏

TMNT was a lot of years ago...isn't selecting 'Tortle' as one's race merely signaling: "Attempting to Powergame"? 🃏✌️

[Nefariis]

Niche, of course, but potentially worth exploring: Page 287 of the DMG has options for DM to trade a certain (sub)classes armour proficiencies for Unarmoured Defense [...]


Unarmoured Paladin could follow a similar logic (Dex/Cha rather than Dex/Wis of course). Just gotta swing it with your DM.


Not to derail the thread too much, but would any of you allow this in your game?

My gut/initial reaction was "hell no" - but then I started thinking about it and having a character become willfully more MAD hardly seems like it would break anything.

Thoughts?

[stoutstien]

Not to derail the thread too much, but would any of you allow this in your game?

My gut/initial reaction was "hell no" - but then I started thinking about it and having a character become willfully more MAD hardly seems like it would break anything.

Thoughts?

I am in favor of it. It's a fair trade IMO.

[Amnestic]

Not to derail the thread too much, but would any of you allow this in your game?

My gut/initial reaction was "hell no" - but then I started thinking about it and having a character become willfully more MAD hardly seems like it would break anything.

Thoughts?

I'd probably allow it.

If it was paladin with unarmoured dex/wis? No problems there, you're pretty MAD.
If it was paladin with unarmoured dex/cha it feels a little more shaky, but it also locks them out of shields and any magic armour. Since I've not seen it in action I expect I would allow it for now, just to see how it plays out. I expect it'd be a net-buff in tier 1, roughly equal in tier 2, and then tapers off a little after that if magic items are around.

[RogueJK]

I'd allow it for certain characters, if it fits their character concept. Perhaps DEX/WIS on a Peace or Knowledge Cleric who doesn't use armor or weapons. Or DEX/CHA on an unarmored Redemption Paladin.

[loki_ragnarock]

I don't see what's egregious about barrier tattoos.

The rarity rating, mostly:

Bracers of Defense (Rare)
+x Magical Armor (Rare+)
Ring of Protection (Rare)
Cloak of Protection (Uncommon)

Meanwhile, barrier tattoos start at uncommon for a +2 to AC from base calculation, jump to +5 AC from base calculation at rare, and +8 from base at very rare. The only thing that is of comparable rarity also provides half the bonus.

All while not requiring proficiency or imparting disadvantage to ability checks. We can disingenuously argue that these aren't the best for barbarians and monks all we like, but we all know that's not the class of character the magic item was included for.

The lower rarity by comparison to other AC boosting items is where everything breaks down, though. The only thing that falls along the low end of the rarity range doesn't match up very well by comparison, and it was already an outlier; these are outliers but better.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Not to derail the thread too much, but would any of you allow this in your game?

My gut/initial reaction was "hell no" - but then I started thinking about it and having a character become willfully more MAD hardly seems like it would break anything.

Thoughts?

Depends on the justification. If they wanted to play an unarmored Paladin, I'd absolutely allow Cha + Dex. Hexblade? Get outta here, man.

Generally, if they're a half caster I'd probably allow it, full caster absolutely not, non-caster I'd let them choose the relevant stat. You want to play a psi warrior with Unarmored Defense (Int)? Sounds like a blast. I'd also probably let any class with Heavy Armor keep the shield.

[Amnestic]

The rarity rating, mostly:

Bracers of Defense (Rare)
+x Magical Armor (Rare+)
Ring of Protection (Rare)
Cloak of Protection (Uncommon)

Meanwhile, barrier tattoos start at uncommon for a +2 to AC from base calculation, jump to +5 AC from base calculation at rare, and +8 from base at very rare. The only thing that is of comparable rarity also provides half the bonus.

All while not requiring proficiency or imparting disadvantage to ability checks. We can disingenuously argue that these aren't the best for barbarians and monks all we like, but we all know that's not the class of character the magic item was included for.

Right, the Uncommon one was intended for characters that don't get Light armour proficiency - wizards and sorcerers, who also get mage armour (or dragon scales if they're a dragon sorc). 12+Dex AC at the cost of an attunement slot is almost certainly going to be worse than 13+Dex AC at the cost of a 1st level spell.

Medium armour - the rare option - isn't a super difficult proficiency to acquire for those who don't have it. Maybe you got it from your race (mountain dwarves hoo) or brief dip into another class. The tattoo is still 'good', it should be, it's a rare magic item, but 13+Dex (mage armour or studded leather+1) is going to be 16-18 depending on your level for a caster, and Rare Barrier Tattoo is going to be 17.

As for Very Rare, 18 AC is good, and it's nice it doesn't have any strength requirements, but it's also not really better than studded leather +2 (14+Dex, 18-19 AC by the time you're getting +2 items) and equivalent to mage armour.

Because I'm looking at our hypothetical wizard and I gotta say I'd rather keep my attunement slot open and spend my magic item allotment on something else than go for a barrier tattoo. Even if I didn't dip for medium armour and shield proficiency, mage armour keeps up with barrier tattoos fine, and a single spell slot - maybe two - a day is a cost I'd rather pay.

[Segev]

The rarity rating, mostly:

Bracers of Defense (Rare)
+x Magical Armor (Rare+)
Ring of Protection (Rare)
Cloak of Protection (Uncommon)

Meanwhile, barrier tattoos start at uncommon for a +2 to AC from base calculation, jump to +5 AC from base calculation at rare, and +8 from base at very rare. The only thing that is of comparable rarity also provides half the bonus.

All while not requiring proficiency or imparting disadvantage to ability checks. We can disingenuously argue that these aren't the best for barbarians and monks all we like, but we all know that's not the class of character the magic item was included for.

The lower rarity by comparison to other AC boosting items is where everything breaks down, though. The only thing that falls along the low end of the rarity range doesn't match up very well by comparison, and it was already an outlier; these are outliers but better.
Things that change the base calculation will be rated "less expensive" than things that are a flat bonus. The latter skew bounded accuracy goals, while the former do not. The Bracers let you have a shield without having a shield, which is not QUITE going to push out of bounded accuracy, but is giving you an extra hand while pushing your AC to the top end of bounded accuracy expectations.

[Grod_The_Giant]

What were they thinking?
Probably the same thing as the OP-- "let's give characters a way to buy good unarmored AC."

[Witty Username]

If you just like the look of being unarmored, glamoured studded leather can make any lightly armored dex type look like whatever you want them to. Mage Armor does similar, but then you're imposing on the slots of a caster ally.

Is glamoured still a thing in 5e?

[Kuulvheysoon]

There is a a specific set of studded leather armor that is glamoured, yeah. Armor properties are no longer mix and match, alas.

[Greywander]

Armor properties are no longer mix and match, alas.
Not necessarily. There might an official ruling somewhere that says so, but it would be trivial for a DM to slap multiple magic item properties onto a single set of armor. One example might be mithril armor +3. The way it's worded in the magic item is just that the magic item properties can only be applied to certain kinds of armor, e.g. the glamoured studded leather can only be applied to studded leather, but that could be studded leather that is also a +3 armor.

This definitely falls into the realm of "ask your DM", though. I think by default magic items are distinct, and a lot of DMs might go forward under that assumption. But it's such a simple and easy tweak, and still sort of fits with the letter of the rules (see above, studded leather +3 is still studded leather, and thus could be eligible to be glamoured, if the DM allows it). Once you raise the question to your DM, it would be hard to see why they wouldn't take advantage of mixing and matching, especially with weaker bonuses. You might at some point have to choose between, say, mithril armor +2 and regular armor +3, and that might be a hard choice for you. Combining weaker bonuses is a good way to fill the gaps between weaker items and stronger ones.

[Amnestic]

Not necessarily. There might an official ruling somewhere that says so,

There is, DMG 139.


Some suits of magic armor specify the type of armor they are, such as chain mail or plate. If a magic armor doesn't specify its armor type, you may choose the type or determine it randomly.

The rest of what you said isn't wrong though - there's no game balance reason why studded leather can be glamoured but leather can't be, and a DM can trivially adjust things.

[Segev]

There is, DMG 139.



The rest of what you said isn't wrong though - there's no game balance reason why studded leather can be glamoured but leather can't be, and a DM can trivially adjust things.

Heck, in my ToA game, I took the "gleaming" armor effect, and applied it to a short sword. This actually was a pretty significant upgrade, it turned out: merely being a magic sword meant it was useful against things not vulnerable to damage from nonmagical weapons.

[Dork_Forge]

Because I'm looking at our hypothetical wizard and I gotta say I'd rather keep my attunement slot open and spend my magic item allotment on something else than go for a barrier tattoo. Even if I didn't dip for medium armour and shield proficiency, mage armour keeps up with barrier tattoos fine, and a single spell slot - maybe two - a day is a cost I'd rather pay.

This really depends, on a Wizard the cost isn't so bad because of Arcane Recovery, but the slot or two used on Arcane Recovery could instead be spent on Shields and it leaves you with an additional spell prepared free.

For a Sorcerer that isn't Draconic Origin that 1st level slot holds more weight (especially since it can be scavenged for SP or modified with Metamagic).

If you are starting at a higher level and given the option of choosing your magic item then you can save the spell known altogether by not having to take Mage Armor.

[Greywander]

There is, DMG 139.

The rest of what you said isn't wrong though - there's no game balance reason why studded leather can be glamoured but leather can't be, and a DM can trivially adjust things.
You might have missed the point I was making. If one magic item says it can be applied to chainmail, and another magic item also says it can be applied to chainmail, then it seems like it might be possible to get both effects on the same suit of chainmail.

I wasn't arguing that you could get the glamour effect on something besides studded leather (although this, too, would be easy for a DM to do), I was arguing that you could get some other kind of magical studded leather, such as studded leather +X, that was also glamoured.