Mystra's worshippers alignments can be NG or LN. Why not LG or true Neutral?

[eyebreaker7]

A paladin has to be LG so is (s)he unable to worship Mystra? Or is the alignment restriction just for her clerics?

" Alignment: NG (you can use either NG or LN when picking Mystra as a patron)"

[Particle_Man]

What alignment is Mystra? Usually clerics cannot be true neutral unless their god is. Although NG or LN but not LG (if the god is LG) or not true neutral (if the god is true neutral) is a bit odd.

Paladins are usually LG and usually serve LG, LN or NG gods, if they serve gods at all. There are some exceptions.

I think lay worshippers do not have alignment restrictions in general, but perhaps this god is more strict.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

What you've quoted is what you use for the deity's alignment to determine the range the PC has available.

A Cleric's alignment must be within one step of the deity's alignment. So a Cleric of a NG deity can be LG, NG, CG, or TN. A Cleric of a LN deity can be LG, LN, LE, or TN.

This is because the previous incarnation of Mystra was LN, but she died and the new Mystra is NG, but still recognizes Clerics who worshipped the previous version.

[Maat Mons]

Faerun is weird about Clerics and Deities. The setting removes the ability for Clerics to worship ideals. And Faiths and Pantheons gives many deities different alignment restrictions for their Clerics than are standard.

[Particle_Man]

Except clerics may not be true neutral unless their deity is, and Mystra wasn’t/isn’t. Or is that different in Faerun too?

Looks like LE,LN,LG,NG and CG are on the table. But churches of Mystra with both CG and LE clerics might have awkward moments.

[eyebreaker7]

So then going by your posts, everyone, a worshiper of Mystra can be of ANY alignment? Thus allowing a paladin of Mystra?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

So then going by your posts, everyone, a worshiper of Mystra can be of ANY alignment? Thus allowing a paladin of Mystra?

Not ANY alignment, NE, CE, and CN aren't within one step of LN or NG. But yes, you can be a LG worshipper of Mystra, including a Paladin.

[One Step Two]

So then going by your posts, everyone, a worshiper of Mystra can be of ANY alignment? Thus allowing a paladin of Mystra?

If you're interested in building a Paladin of Mystra, take a look at Champions of Valor for the Mystic Fire Knight paladin Variant, and the Sword of the Arcane Order feat. It works best if you use the Magical Training regional feat from the Players Guide to Faerun/Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book, which gives you a spellbook of your own to draw spells from.

[Particle_Man]

So it looks like:

Paladin of Mystra: LG

Cleric of Mystra: LG, LN, LE, NG, CG

Other worshipper of Mystra: LG, LN, LE, NG, CG, TN

[Ger. Bessa]

Also there is fluff (Faith and Pantheons iirc) that Midnight (Mystra when she was mortal) was NG but as the main Magic Portfolio goddess, she has to be TN or Ao will come down on her.

She does have a paladin order (the famous Sword of the Arcane Order feat is usable by her paladins, her rangers and another magic god's paladins) described in Champions of Valor.

Edit : Crescent Mooned, will teach me to open tabs in the evening and answering the next day...

[Endarire]

To my present understanding, if you want to channel divine power from a deity (meaning spells), you must be a legal alignment. Otherwise, alignment doesn't matter.

[Tzardok]

Also there is fluff (Faith and Pantheons iirc) that Midnight (Mystra when she was mortal) was NG but as the main Magic Portfolio goddess, she has to be TN or Ao will come down on her.


Mystra is still Neutral Good. What you are talking about is a) from the novels, and b) a requirement to stay neutral, as in not choosing sides, when giving out magic. There was a time when Mystra made using and learning offensive and harmful magic as obnoxious as possible while boosting defensive magic in the hopes of making people less likely to harm each other, which caused Tempus and most evil gods to bitterly complain. Ao then told her to shape up.

Edit: A requirement to be TN to be a magic god doesn't make sense anyway as neither of Mystra's precedessors was TN. Mystryl was CN and First Mystra was LN.

[eyebreaker7]

Welp, here it states in specific paladins of Mystra so I guess it's ok:

Sword of the Arcane Order
Type: General Feat
Source: Champions of Valor
Members of your military order have a special connection with arcane magic.
Prerequisite: Paladin 4th of Azuth or Mystra, or ranger 4th of Mystra; member of the Knights of the Mystic Fire, the Order of the Shooting Star, or the Swords of the High One.
Benefit: You can use your paladin and ranger spell slots to prepare Wizard spells. You must have a minimum Intelligence score of 10 + the spell's level to prepare it, and the save DC of the spell is equal to 10 + your Int modifier (as if you were a wizard).
These wizard spells can be taken either from your spellbook (if you have one) or from another character's spellbook (though in the latter case you must decipher the writing in the book and succeed on a Spellcraft check to prepare the spell, just as a wizard using a borrowed spellbook.
If you also have levels in wizard, your wizard caster level is treated as the sum of your wizard, paladin, and ranger class levels.
Special: Azuth has a paladin order called the Swords of the High One. Mystra has a paladin order called the Knights of the Mystic Fire and a closely allied group of rangers called the Order of the Shooting Star. Members of all three of these groups can select this feat as long as they are at least 4th level in their respective order's primary class.

Unfortunately you have to go with Wizard not Sorcerer who would benefit from the Charisma to begin with.

[One Step Two]

Unfortunately you have to go with Wizard not Sorcerer who would benefit from the Charisma to begin with.

Yeah, it's a shame they didn't lean into the Charisma synergy, but with the cap of 4th level spell slots, you only need an Int of 14 to make the most use out of the feat itself

[Silly Name]

Just to clarify a bit:

The PHB has the standard rules for clerical alignment restrictions. Keep in mind that A) those apply to clerics and not all of a deity's worshippers - a True Neutral character may very well worship Pelor, but they may not be a cleric of Pelor - , and that B) individual settings or deities can have different restrictions - for example, on Eberron clerics aren't as restricted in their alignment choices as Oeridian clerics.

Of course, Good characters will still probably not worship Evil deities and vice-versa, but that's because it's highly unlikely their philosophies will match, not because of any particular rule.

For point A, Mystra (Midnight) is one of those deities who has special dispensations. She's Neutral Good, but she accepts Lawful Neutral and even Lawful Evil clerics (in no small part because Ao enforces that the Goddess of Magic doesn't "play favourites" with Good), and as pointed upthread she even has a special order of paladins devoted to her.

[Tzardok]

For point A, Mystra (Midnight) is one of those deities who has special dispensations. She's Neutral Good, but she accepts Lawful Neutral and even Lawful Evil clerics (in no small part because Ao enforces that the Goddess of Magic doesn't "play favourites" with Good), and as pointed upthread she even has a special order of paladins devoted to her.

She accepts Lawful clerics of every stripe out of respect for her precedessor, who was Lawful Neutral. Ao's edict is, again, about not taking sides, not enforcing a specific alignment. No other important divine portfolio has a proscribed alignment (as seen by the fact that the main gods of death were, respectively, lawful evil, neutral evil, chaotic evil, lawful good and lawful neutral); why should that be the case for magic, of all things?

[Silly Name]

She accepts Lawful clerics of every stripe out of respect for her precedessor, who was Lawful Neutral. Ao's edict is, again, about not taking sides, not enforcing a specific alignment. No other important divine portfolio has a proscribed alignment (as seen by the fact that the main gods of death were, respectively, lawful evil, neutral evil, chaotic evil, lawful good and lawful neutral); why should that be the case for magic, of all things?

Because since Mystra maintains the Weave, if she took sides she could easily topple the balance of the divine order*. Mystra is not allowed to stop people from using the Weave based purely on alignment or what deity they worship, because if she said "Evil people can't use the Weave" the Evil gods would go up in arms because their followers would no longer be able to use magic (and some Neutral and Lawful gods would also likely oppose such an edict on either principle or fear of their followers being cut from magic too).

Of course, Mystra isn't forced to be any particular alignment, we agree on that. But her portfolio is very different from that of say, Lathander or Bane, which necessitates that she does not play favourites when it comes to granting magic.

*Which, mind you, would probably be a good thing to no longer have crazed genocidal cultists around, but apparently Ao values "balance" far more than making the Realms a better place for mortals.

[Tzardok]

I didn't argue that. What I argued is that none of that has any bearing on Mystra's alignment or the alignments of her clerics.

[ThanatosZero]

If I recall correctly it wasn't Ao who enforced this, but rather the pantheon.

This was at the time, when both Kelemvor and Midnight were still fresh as gods.
They decided that reforms were needed.
Due their reforms, this had drastic effects on the mortal realm.
Mostly Kelemvor's reforms, which reduced the number of believers and petitioners of all deities.

Both were put on trial for the failure of the mortals.
Thus they had to work on their reforms once more.

Kelemvor reestablished (reluctantly) the Wall of the Faithless, tossed aside the heaven and hell sides of his city and changed to a lawful neutral alignment (he still has LG nuances, but for to be the god of the dead and death, he needs to put his once mortal viewpoints aside, to fullfill his duties properly)
Mystra (Midnight) was forced to allow spellcasters of any alignment.

More about is found on the wiki.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Kelemvor#Godhood

[Ger. Bessa]

Mystra is still Neutral Good. What you are talking about is a) from the novels, and b) a requirement to stay neutral, as in not choosing sides, when giving out magic. There was a time when Mystra made using and learning offensive and harmful magic as obnoxious as possible while boosting defensive magic in the hopes of making people less likely to harm each other, which caused Tempus and most evil gods to bitterly complain. Ao then told her to shape up.

Edit: A requirement to be TN to be a magic god doesn't make sense anyway as neither of Mystra's precedessors was TN. Mystryl was CN and First Mystra was LN.

I did put iirc meaning that I wasn't sure. It was not in a novel as I've only ever read the first Drizz't book. Faiths and Pantheons has stubs on each deity's history relative to its allies and enemies and that neutral stance (but you're right in that she's NG) forced upon her is mentionned.

I don't read FR books for the lore, I read them for Incantatrix, Spelldancer, Zhent Skymage and Nar Demonbinder :)

[Zanos]

No other important divine portfolio has a proscribed alignment (as seen by the fact that the main gods of death were, respectively, lawful evil, neutral evil, chaotic evil, lawful good and lawful neutral); why should that be the case for magic, of all things?
It isn't about alignment, it's about the duties of your divine station. The dead must be Shepherded. He can be an Evil jerk that endorses undead armies scouring the lands, but as long as the souls of the dead are sorted into their correct afterlives, Ao doesn't care. Similarly Mystra can sponsor only Good champions and fight against Evil through mortals, but her job is to ensure the Weave is accessible to mortal spellcasters without bias. It is failure to fulfill your station that pisses Ao off, not your alignment or the activites of your mortal agents.

[Arkhios]

Religion: A paladin need not devote herself to a single deity—devotion to righteousness is enough. -- Paladins devoted to a god are scrupulous in observing religious duties and are welcome in every associated temple.

My 3.5 PHB, First Printing: July 2003.

In other words, Paladin can in practice devote themselves to just about any god, as long as their teachings do not contradict their devotion to righteousness, and most importantly, their Code of Conduct. I don't see why couldn't a Paladin be devoted to Mystra; a paladin's alignment isn't dictated by their faith. Even if in Forgotten Realms a paladin (iirc) must worship a deity to gain spells.

Knights of the Mystic Fire were an order of paladins specifically devoted to Mystra. In the Realms. There. Even the setting lore supports the idea.

[hamishspence]

In the Realms, divine power, even paladin or druid divine power, comes through deities. And according to both Deities & Demigods and Faiths & Pantheons, a deity must have levels in the appropriate class to grant the appropriate spells.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#grantSpells

Grant Spells
A deity automatically grants spells and domain powers to mortal divine spellcasters who pray to it. Most deities can grant spells from the cleric spell list, the ranger spell list, and from three or more domains. Deities with levels in the druid class can grant spells from the druid spell list, and deities with paladin levels can grant spells from the paladin spell list. A deity can withhold spells from any particular mortal as a free action; once a spell has been granted, it remains in the mortal’s mind until expended.

It's discussed in the Dragon Magazine FAQ for the relevant books "How can Helmite paladins (Helm is LN) exist if Helm has no paladin levels" - and the answer was "They just exist - let the DM decide who is actually granting the spells".

[wilphe]

And Sune who is CG has Paladins as well

[Darg]

And Sune who is CG has Paladins as well

She is given an explicit exception to allow for paladins who are lawful good.

[hamishspence]

It's possible that some other god is supplying the power (Sune herself has no paladin levels), but that because the paladins are devoted worshippers of Sune, they go to Sune's realm after death despite the alignment mismatch.