Which racial abilities have you seen that are high-impact?

[LordShade]

In your experience, which racial abilities have the highest impact? By "high-impact," I don't necessarily mean powerful, but a racial ability that has a big impact on how a character is played or gameplay in general. And by this definition of impact, I'm including roleplaying/social/exploration impact, not just combat mechanics. For example, I would consider the mountain dwarf and half-elf's extra +1 ASI to be powerful, but not "impactful" by this definition. Same with the yuan-ti's magic resistance. "Ribbons" that have a lot of noncombat utility or roleplaying use, I would consider high impact.

Abilities that I would consider high impact by this definition:

- Variant human's bonus feat (major changes to gameplay at level 1)
- Simic hybrid's extra arms
- Aarakocra/tiefling flight
- Innate, at-will telepathy and built-in subtle spell effects like psionic mage hands
- Free cantrip, if it's one that has a lot of utility
- Changeling's disguise abilities

[RogueJK]

Goblin's Nimble Escape: quasi-Cunning Action combos well with a number of classes and playstyles, giving you additional mobility options and granting a frequent use for your Bonus Action on classes that otherwise lack it. Great fun on an in-and-out melee striker, or a cowardly caster who hides a lot.

Hobgoblin's Saving Face: +3/4/5 to a failed saving throw every short rest can be a literal life saver

Eladrin's Fey Step: Like free Misty Step every short rest, only better due to the additional rider effects that can be changed on a long rest. Handy not only for exploration, but also combat mobility, and emergency escape from grapples/restraining abilities.

[loki_ragnarock]

Tabaxi's double movement speed opens up alot of stuff for mobility on classes that otherwise lack it, especially combined with their natural climb speed.

Sure, you can make a Tabaxi rogue and go very fast indeed. Or you can make a barbarian and go fast enough to not lose rage by closing with the enemy. Or a melee fighter who *will* get to hit with that great sword this round. Or a bow ranger who is very likely to reach the high ground in any encounter featuring elevation. Or a warlock/sorcerer spell sniper who will probably be able to keep distance in an open field without expending precious spell slots for the privilege.

It's a game changer in play.

EDIT:
Feline Agility and Cat's Claws. Those are the relevant ability names.

[da newt]

To some degree it depends on how much the Player wants race / racial feats to matter. For example the Bugbear's Reach can be a fairly insignificant flavor ribbon or it can be the central part of a PC's modus operandi. Playing a monster race can be a central RP feature or largely ignored.

The races with significant saves can be very significant. Tortle AC can be a big deal. Flight is game changing. Not having to breath/eat/drink/sleep can be a big deal. YuanTi have a great package of stuff. V.Human and Custom Lineage bonus feat at lvl 1 can be HUGE. I love dhampir's spider climb (irrationally).

But even these and other significant racial mechanics can be emphasized or minimized by the Player / DM.

[Snowbluff]

Leonin get a fear roar that is helpful for Conquest Paladins and Fey Wanderer Rangers.

[Addaran]

Darkvision! Without it, you can't really sneak against enemies that also have darkvision ( especially the non civilized ones)

Gnome's speak with animal, opens fun RP and hint of danger nearby.

Resistance is always fun and lets you do riskier stuff like fireball at your feat.

Free cantrips or spells lets you have an ace up your sleave, even as a non caster.

Goblins, you can move around even as squishy or hide after casting a spell.

Changeling's shapechange, so amazing to change appearance at will.

[ff7hero]

Would access to Racial Feats count? Wood Elf Magic is an unsung hero for any Rogue.

Elven Accuracy, Bountiful Luck and Dwarven Fortitude are other game-changing racial feats off the top of my head.

[nickl_2000]

I don't think any ability allows you to impact from on high better than racial flight.

[Unoriginal]

Not sure why, but I'm surprised the Half-Orc's actually-I-still-have-one-HP feature wasn't mentioned yet.

[nickl_2000]

Actually, I'm a little surprised I haven't seen the halfing re-rolling of 1s mentioned. A critical miss require 2 ones rolled in a row taking the chances from 1 in 20 to 1 in 400. Over the course of your game, being able to re-roll 5% of your rolls is substantial.

[stoutstien]

Actually, I'm a little surprised I haven't seen the halfing re-rolling of 1s mentioned. A critical miss require 2 ones rolled in a row taking the chances from 1 in 20 to 1 in 400. Over the course of your game, being able to re-roll 5% of your rolls is substantial.

I was going to mention it but kinda fall into the category of being good regardless of build or concept rather than a defining feature. It's pretty snazzy to go all in on D20 rerolls for master of fate feels.

[LordShade]

Agreed, I think Halfling Luck is a super strong ability, but I don't think it would change how I play a character. My halfling EB warlock would more or less do the same stuff my half-elf EB warlock would. One of them rerolls 1s, the other rolls 3 dice on advantage, but fundamentally they are just going to spam EB.

[nickl_2000]

I was going to mention it but kinda fall into the category of being good regardless of build or concept rather than a defining feature. It's pretty snazzy to go all in on D20 rerolls for master of fate feels.


Agreed, I think Halfling Luck is a super strong ability, but I don't think it would change how I play a character. My halfling EB warlock would more or less do the same stuff my half-elf EB warlock would. One of them rerolls 1s, the other rolls 3 dice on advantage, but fundamentally they are just going to spam EB.

That's fair, that is a solid point.

[LordShade]

Would access to Racial Feats count? Wood Elf Magic is an unsung hero for any Rogue.

Elven Accuracy, Bountiful Luck and Dwarven Fortitude are other game-changing racial feats off the top of my head.

Sure, you can define it however you want--I just wanted to raise the discussion.

I agree that the fact that EA exists is a difference-maker for things like Samurai and sorlocks.

[Gignere]

Elves/half elves charm resistance and sleep immunity has been game changing at least at lower levels.

Especially when sleep is being cast nearly every encounter, and as an elf you don’t even take up any hit points from the roll and the caster can freely cast right on top of you.

In one game the immunity to ghoul paralysis as an elf although not a racial trait tied to the race itself but a racial trait implied by the monster manual entry has also came in handy.

Darkvision has been amazing. Any race with flight automatically breaks the game in T1 and T2.

[Ettina]

Yuan-ti's magic resistance isn't impactful in my experience, but their poison immunity is. It's a lot easier to reliably exploit as a PC - eg building a grappler who hangs out in a cloudkill.

[LudicSavant]

Mark of Healing Halfling is a big game changer that completely opens up the 'primary healer' playstyle for a lot of classes, like Wizard (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24670442&postcount=496) and Warlock (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25029862&postcount=1095).

Mark of Shadow Elf is basically the ultimate stealth race, allowing things like this (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24941211&postcount=938). You not only become very stealthy, but get a whole suite of stealth tools (anti-divinations, invisibility, pass without trace, disguises, etc).

Just as two examples. But really all of the Dragonmarked races are like this to some degree or other.

Frankly, all of the Eberron races are good in this respect.

Kalashtar have arguably the best telepathy feature, and Severed From Dreams has roleplaying implications.

Changelings have disguises and voice mimicry, and they're uniquely difficult to "see through" compared to similar features.

Warforged have Sentry's Rest every night, and don't need to eat, drink, sleep, breathe, worry about disease, or the like. They also can modify their bodies, equip sentient docent AIs, and the like (e.g. they can take roleplaying-important magic items that nobody else can, stuff like that).

Shifters have gobs of temp hp and some fairly impactful shifting effects on some of the subraces (for example a Wildhunt Shifter Barbarian can Reckless Attack without giving enemies Advantage. They could also stand inside of Darkness or Fog Cloud without it canceling out).

Ravenloft races are also pretty solid at this.

Dhampir will have you strolling on ceilings and eating people for skill boosts. Super impactful.

Reborn can really facilitate "master of all skills" builds.

Hexbloods have their telepathy and remote viewing.

Then there's other ones.

Goblin is a game changer because of Nimble Escape making you play more like you had a Rogue dip (except you get to take 2 levels in a different class, instead of Rogue!)

Loxodons and Simic Hybrids of course have their grappling playstyles.

Yuan-Ti have a playstyle changer: Poison Immunity! Why is this a playstyle changer? Because it allows you to do things like walk inside of poison hazard AoEs as if they were Sculpted around you, and all of the tactics that entails (try combining it with Transmuted Spell and you can do things like walk through Poison Wall of Fire, too). You also can charm snakes, all day every day.

Tabaxi have all their speedster, kiting, and cheese-grater builds. They zip around, up walls, etc. They also can get Slashing-type unarmed attacks, which enables the Slasher Monks.

Aarakocra and Winged Tieflings fly, of course.

Elves all get Trance, which basically comes up every night. They can also grab Elven Accuracy. And they have some fairly impactful subraces: Eladrin and Shadar-Kai have their teleports with interesting riders, High Elves basically facilitate a Booming Blade playstyle on Rogues and Melee Clerics, Wood Elves can hide while being observed (mostly matter for Rogues) or take the Wood Elf Magic feat (which comes with Pass Without Trace, Longstrider, and something like Guidance or Shillelagh).

Tieflings can take the Flames of Phlegethos feat, which is a playstyle-changer.

Hobgoblins basically facilitate very tanky single-class Wizards and Sorcerers (and not just in AC either, Save Face is big).

Kobolds have Pack Tactics and Sunlight Sensitivity, both of which are playstyle-changers.

[LordShade]

Great post, Ludic, thank you. What is playstyle-changing about Flames of Phlegethos? It seems like a weak feat to me.

I forgot about the Dragonmarked races. There's the Mark of Warding moon druids and also someone here posted about a summoner-tank build using Mark of Storms with warlock.

Are there any tiny-sized races that have made it into official books, or are those sprites/fairies still UA?

[Kuulvheysoon]

Agreed with everything that LudicSavant mentioned, and I'll also toss on Satyrs and Centaurs from Theros for one major reason: They're both Fey, not Humanoids, which can lead to some really interesting changes (and some really WTF moments).

[Ettina]

Are there any tiny-sized races that have made it into official books, or are those sprites/fairies still UA?

Not only are fairies still UA, they aren't even tiny. They're small-sized with an ability to fit in tiny spaces that's worded so weirdly, by RAW it feels more like something an ooze would do than a fairy.

[LudicSavant]

Great post, Ludic, thank you. What is playstyle-changing about Flames of Phlegethos?

It basically encourages you to play pyro tank casters.

Flames of Phlegethos is a pretty good feat, for the following reasons:

- It boosts your primary stat! This is a big enough deal on its own that FoP doesn't need to be applying in every situation to get its money's worth. That is to say, you should not feel like you have to cast fire spells all the time, if you're in a situation where another spell would be better.

- Mathematically, Flames of Phlegethos improves your average fire damage by approximately .5 damage per die (https://anydice.com/program/22970), regardless of the die size (making it nice and easy to remember). So for example a Fireball would effectively be doing about 8d6+4 damage... that's about as much as the Draconic Sorcerer's level 6 feature! What's more, unlike said feature, it applies on all hits, so things like Create Bonfire or Wall of Fire or Green-Flame Blade will benefit repeatedly.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/839247363922722836/851231005741154324/unknown.png
To be exact, it's +.38 per d4, +.42 per d6, +.44 per d8, +.45 per d10, +.46 per d12

- The 1d4 retribution damage hits automatically, so it's basically a straight +2.5 true DPR per melee hit on you (people usually underestimate the damage output of things that hit automatically). Also, it will totally proc stuff like Hexblade's Curse (meaning it's 1d4+Prof auto-hitting damage per hit). You can stack it up with things like Fire Shield or Armor of Agathys or Hellish Rebuke (or all of the above and more) in order to make attacking you a suicidal endeavor. You can then take Warcaster to make a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" decision tree (e.g. hitting the tank is bad, walking away from the tank is also bad).

Note that the majority of monsters (yes, I counted) have multiattack. Some have an awful lot of multiattacks (for example dragons can hit 6 times in a round).

[Ettina]

I've found Nimble Escape pretty impactful on my goblin wizard. Unfortunately it's redundant on a rogue, but on pretty much anything else, it means always having something useful to do with your bonus action. In Xilb's case, whenever he's in melee with anything, he disengages, and when he's not in melee, he tries to hide. He's only got a +1 to Stealth, so he doesn't hide well, but it spares him getting targeted sometimes. I'm playing two spellcaster PCs in this campaign, Xilb and his friend Taklak the kobold sorcerer, and I've noticed Taklak taking hits a lot more than Xilb, specifically because she doesn't have great options for getting out of the line of fire.

[LordShade]

Hmm, I am not quite persuaded on Flames of Phlegethos. Don't get me wrong, I would like it to be good because it's a pretty interesting feat. What kind of character makes good use of it?

1) +1 ASI, agreed, this is good enough that the other bonuses don't need to be stellar

2) +0.4 damage per die seems super underwhelming to me. The Sorcerer 6 feature doesn't seem that good to me in most cases, aside from Sorc 6/Celestial tomelock 6 builds that are going for Shillelagh+GFB type stuff. Going from 28 damage to 31.2 damage on a fireball--or an 11% damage increase--doesn't seem like a big deal to me. +1 damage on a flaming sphere? +2 damage on a level 17 firebolt?

I think there was some theorycrafting on the old Runecaster UA, by transforming the damage type of a smite or sneak attack and rerolling the all the fire dice, but even then, this portion of the feat seems to be at best on par with Piercer (which I think is terrible).

3) The retribution damage seems like it would be useful for something like a PAM Hexblade or a moon druid, or in other words, a front-liner with a mediocre AC. But in order to set up the retribution damage, it looks like you have to cast a fire spell that round. What kind of build wants to stand in the front line and cast a fire spell every round? (other than the aforementioned Celestial tome sorlock with GFB)

[Evaar]

Hmm, I am not quite persuaded on Flames of Phlegethos. Don't get me wrong, I would like it to be good because it's a pretty interesting feat. What kind of character makes good use of it?

1) +1 ASI, agreed, this is good enough that the other bonuses don't need to be stellar

2) +0.4 damage per die seems super underwhelming to me. The Sorcerer 6 feature doesn't seem that good to me in most cases, aside from Sorc 6/Celestial tomelock 6 builds that are going for Shillelagh+GFB type stuff. Going from 28 damage to 31.2 damage on a fireball--or an 11% damage increase--doesn't seem like a big deal to me. +1 damage on a flaming sphere? +2 damage on a level 17 firebolt?

I think there was some theorycrafting on the old Runecaster UA, by transforming the damage type of a smite or sneak attack and rerolling the all the fire dice, but even then, this portion of the feat seems to be at best on par with Piercer (which I think is terrible).

3) The retribution damage seems like it would be useful for something like a PAM Hexblade or a moon druid, or in other words, a front-liner with a mediocre AC. But in order to set up the retribution damage, it looks like you have to cast a fire spell that round. What kind of build wants to stand in the front line and cast a fire spell every round? (other than the aforementioned Celestial tome sorlock with GFB)

Isn't this what makes it a "playstyle changer?" If you'd just do normal stuff for your build like you'd do anyway, then your playstyle didn't change.

But with regarding to #3, as Ludic points out in the original comment, you don't need to cast a fire spell every round for the feat to still be worth it. It's still a half feat. The extra features you're getting on the cheap.

[LordShade]

@Evaar - what kind of character would you pick it on, and how would you change your playstyle to take advantage of FoP?

[Evaar]

@Evaar - what kind of character would you pick it on, and how would you change your playstyle to take advantage of FoP?

The Celestial Generalist was my first thought, and I actually made that a year or two back intending to use it for that purpose but that game didn't end up going far enough. Any Shillelagh-tomelock works for this, though. I don't think you'd get the Mantle by adding the Genie's Wrath fire damage with an Efreeti patron, but it might be worth asking your neighborhood DM how they'd rule it because that vastly expands your flexibility. Fiends can also make good tanks and have a lot of fire options.

I'd also consider it on a mid-level Eldritch Knight. Or a Bladesinger with the new Extra Attack allowing use of a cantrip in place of one attack (and without the Elf restriction). Naturally a Bladesinger doesn't want to be hit, but so much the better to disincentivize targets to attack you.

There's also a case to make for using it as an Armorer or Battlesmith Artificer. It's not great to give up your Extra Attack, but in both cases you're using Intelligence for the attack and I don't see any reason it wouldn't work with the Armorer's thunder gauntlet special weapon (other than the stupid 1sp requirement that any reasonable person would ignore and/or say a gauntlet qualifies for). You wouldn't always want to use it here, as it's going to be better to make two attacks most of the time, but if you can identify that you're the primary target for some creatures that make a lot of attacks and especially if you can use the cleave from GFB effectively, you may be better off using that and passing on the Extra Attack. In fact, I might need to throw together this Armorer onto a character sheet and see how it looks, this is sounding like it might actually be good.

There may even be a build idea for an Artillerist wading into melee with Greenflame Blade and a shoulder-mounted flamethrower, but I don't know if that's going to end up being super optimal.

[da newt]

I haven't played one yet, but I have a weird desire to build a Vendalkin Barbarian taking advantage of Tasha's ASI swaps and at lvl 2 having proff in ST and CON saves and ADV on DEX, INT, WIS, and CHA saves.

[LudicSavant]

I haven't played one yet, but I have a weird desire to build a Vendalkin Barbarian taking advantage of Tasha's ASI swaps and at lvl 2 having proff in ST and CON saves and ADV on DEX, INT, WIS, and CHA saves.

One thing to consider for gnome Barbarians and the like is that if you have a -1 Int save, and then you get Advantage on it, the Advantage doesn't make much of a difference.

The reason why is because of the combination of this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/839247363922722836/855282586763132958/unknown.png
This graph shows the difference Advantage makes.

And this:
https://i.postimg.cc/MTvcMjvC/Arcane-Trickster5save-HP.png
This graph shows the curve for how far 100 hp would go against "save negates" damage effects, based on how hard it is to hit you.

Basically: Advantage is worth about +1 to saves at the bottom and top end of the RNG, and +5 at the middle. IN ADDITION, +1s at the top end of the RNG are worth much more protection than +1s at the bottom end (if the fact that +1s are nonlinear benefits seems counterintuitive, think of it this way: if you go from taking 100% to 95% damage, barely anything has changed. If you go from taking 10% to 5% damage, you've doubled your durability. If you go from 5% to 0% damage, you've become literally invulnerable). Note that while the examples are in terms of damage, the principle applies to any kind of effect (like "number of rounds you spend mind-controlled").

The end result is that if you have a -1 Int and are facing down a DC19 save, and you get Advantage... it makes very little difference. Whereas adding Advantage to a middle-of-the-road or high save makes a big difference (making you 'tanky' against that kind of effect).

So in order for your Vedalken Barbarian to not be a mind slave, they need to have decent base mental bonuses from some source (such as by hanging out next to a Paladin all the time, or taking Res(Wis), or the like).

All that said, even with a -1 Int save, your chance to make a DC 15 save goes up by 18.75% against a DC 15 save (as opposed to a DC 19). It doesn't take that much of a bonus to push Advantage into greater relevance.

[quindraco]

That's why you stand next to the paladin, of course. Best buddies 4ever~!

[Delnatha]

Yuan-ti's magic resistance isn't impactful in my experience, but their poison immunity is. It's a lot easier to reliably exploit as a PC - eg building a grappler who hangs out in a cloudkill.

I see this opinion a lot. And all I can do is speak to my experience where most of my TPK experiences revolve around most of the party having to make a save and then mostly rolling poorly. It seems like important saving throws don’t come up often in a lot of campaigns but it’s nearly every encounter after the first few levels in my experience. Advantage on saves is a big deal.

[Tanarii]

Mountain dwarf medium armor on arcane casters.

Wood Elf and Lightfoot Halfling stealth.

Halfling ability to move through enemies.

Forest Gnome talking to small beasts.

Half Orc recklessness (aka relentless endurance)

[Cheesegear]

Every campaign I've ever played, Darkvision has been a major factor. Yes, the Cleric can cast Light, for free, as much as they want, whenever they want. But it obliterates the chances for Stealth checks.

Dwarf
- Dwarven Resilience is great.
- Mountain Dwarf Armour Training becomes fairly significant when magical armours start coming into play, like Dragon Scale or Mithral Scale. At low levels it does almost nothing.

Elf
- Free proficiency in Perception is amazing.
- Elven 4-hour Long Rests have massive potential.

Halfling
- Re-roll 1s is amazing, and no-one can tell me otherwise.
- Lightfoot Halfling 'always Hide' is only good on Rogues. But it is legitimately game-changing.
- Stout is the same as Dwarf. Which means it's good.

Human - Literally the worst since you get literally nothing for being one, so why would you even even be one?
- Variant Human; The free Feat at Level 1 obviously accelerates the low levels. But around Level 8 the 'benefit' you get from being a V.Human becomes almost irrelevant.

Dragonborn
- Cold or Fire Resistance, from Level 1, is extremely good. Unfortunately, they come tied to a Cold or Fire Breath Weapon, which is less good. Common Damage and Resistance types are Common types.
- Free Language in Draconic is very good if your DM enforces the limitations on Exotic Languages...And has campaigns that feature the Draconic Language.
(e.g; Lizardfolk are a fairly common species, that infamously don't even speak Common)

Gnome
- Gnome Cunning is very useful, in almost every campaign I've ever played... That's the only good thing about being a Gnome.

Half-Elf
- OP as ****. You get all the benefits that being Human should give you (free Skills, lots of ASIs), and you get Darkvision and Fey Ancestry on top. I always tell my players that if they don't know what to play, and they find picking Feats confusing and annoying, just play Half-Elf. It's the same as being Human (i.e; Just Play Yourself), but way better.

Half-Orc
- Relentless Endurance is amazing at Tier 1. Especially when you have DMs who don't give a **** if you die at Level 1 or 2 (like me). If you die, you die. But when you start hitting Tier 2 and higher, Relentless Endurance stops being relevant fairly quickly.

Tiefling
- Same as Dragonborn, free Fire Resistance, from Level 1, is great, and never stops being good.
- Hellish Rebuke is great on CHA-classes. But like Lightfoot Halfling and 'always hide'. If you're not playing a CHA class, you shouldn't really be playing a Tiefling. Darkness, however, is incredibly strong no matter what class you're playing. But it does mean going into Tier 2.

[Merudo]

Changelings have disguises and voice mimicry, and they're uniquely difficult to "see through" compared to similar features.


Could you elaborate a bit on that? The Changeling's ability can almost entirely be replaced by the Disguise Self and Alter Self spells. Free spells are okay, but are typically seen as a weak feature by themselves.



Warforged have Sentry's Rest every night, and don't need to eat, drink, sleep, breathe, worry about disease, or the like. They also can modify their bodies, equip sentient docent AIs, and the like (e.g. they can take roleplaying-important magic items that nobody else can, stuff like that).


In my experience, eating, drinking, sleeping and breathing are never an issue. But then again we usually have a Druid with goodberries and a Wizard with alarm / tiny hut :).

[LudicSavant]

Could you elaborate a bit on that? The Changeling's ability can almost entirely be replaced by the Disguise Self and Alter Self spells. Free spells are okay, but are typically seen as a weak feature by themselves.

Disguise Self doesn't hold up to physical inspection. Alter Self does, but it'll still ping basic low level "someone is using magic to fool us" warning systems, which can make it hard to get into that exclusive noble gala unless their security is a joke. It also is self-only, and Concentration-based. Your whole masquerade can come crumbling down from getting poked.

There's stuff that'll reveal changelings too, it's just harder to come by. There's no magic to detect, no concentration to break, no illusion to see through, no spell to dispel, no duration to run out, and it holds up to physical inspection so well that people don't notice that their lover's a changeling. You need to either invade their mind, find a flaw in their play-acting, or use one of the abilities that specifically counters shapechangers.

[Eldariel]

- Variant Human; The free Feat at Level 1 obviously accelerates the low levels. But around Level 8 the 'benefit' you get from being a V.Human becomes almost irrelevant.

Hm? I don't really understand this position. Sure, the more ASIs you have the less value each have, but in this edition there are enough powerful ASIs that this is not really an issue for the first 20 levels or so.

Example: Vuman Wizard has 3 ASIs to everyone else's 2 on level 8. The only way others can catch up is by taking a half-feat, which are universally much weaker than full feats (Elven Accuracy on some builds not withstanding). Like you're a level 8 Wizard: your options are having Alert, Lucky and 18 Int or 18 Int + Telekinetic & Lucky OR Alert as any other race. It seems like an easy choice in favour of Vuman. Custom Lineage of course can have that half-feat and a full feat on top of it, but at the cost of a lower score in the secondary stat.

And this applies all the way to 20: on level 20 as a Vuman Wizard I'll have:

Alert
Lucky
Res: Con
Metamagic Adept or War Caster
20 Int

Any other race (other than Custom Lineage) has to give one of those up (probably Metamagic Adept or War Caster, but that's a significant loss).


This is a potential point on the Fighter but that's about it. And that's more about Fighter than Vuman.

[Cheesegear]

Vuman Wizard Level 20

You have selected...Wizard.
You've also decided to rocket yourself to Level 20.

The argument is already fallacious, since your baseline is a Level 20 Wizard. :smallsigh:


Any other race (other than Custom Lineage) has to give one of those up [...] that's a significant loss.

I would contend that of your list, I could freely give at least one of them up. Especially the INT 20. Especially at Level 20.

However, like most, I'm going to use my baseline being Level 6 to Level 15.
If, by Level 12, you're a Wizard in a real party, and you've got Int 18, Dex 14, Con 12, Alert and War Caster...You're doing fine. You don't need to be a V.Human for that. The rest of the party has got the rest covered.

D&D isn't hard. Maximum optimisation just isn't neccessary unless your DM is arms racing you. Which, fair enough, is totally possible.

But in the near decade of playing 5e, I've found that racial modifiers - inlcuding the V.Human feat - taper off at Level 8. If your 'sub-optimal' build can survive to Level 8 and beyond? Guess what? It's still good.

[Eldariel]

You have selected...Wizard.
You've also decided to rocket yourself to Level 20.

The argument is already fallacious, since your baseline is a Level 20 Wizard. :smallsigh:

Same would apply to basically every other class save for perhaps the Fighter. And I mentioned level 20 because that's where logically the bonus feat matters the least: the more ASIs you have the less each individual ASI is worth, because they're all from the same list and therefore you first pick the best one, then the second best, then the third best, etc. This is the nature of a system without prerequisites in other feats. But yet, it's still nice there so it's even better on every previous level leading up to 20.


I would contend that of your list, I could freely give at least one of them up. Especially the INT 20. Especially at Level 20.

However, like most, I'm going to use my baseline being Level 6 to Level 15.
If, by Level 12, you're a Wizard in a real party, and you've got Int 18, Dex 14, Con 12, Alert and War Caster...You're doing fine. You don't need to be a V.Human for that. The rest of the party has got the rest covered.

D&D isn't hard. Maximum optimisation just isn't neccessary unless your DM is arms racing you. Which, fair enough, is totally possible.

But in the near decade of playing 5e, I've found that racial modifiers - inlcuding the V.Human feat - taper off at Level 8. If your 'sub-optimal' build can survive to Level 8 and beyond? Guess what? It's still good.

How does any of that suggest that the Vuman racial bonus tapered off around level 8 or that the bonus became almost irrelevant? You just said that it would be more optimal to have those than not.

[Gurgeh]

If your argument is that the game in general gets easier once you hit higher power levels then I'm not sure how a race's benefits being front-loaded make that race weaker; surely it would be the opposite. vHuman is ubiquitous for good reasons.

[Cheesegear]

How does any of that suggest that the Vuman racial bonus tapered off around level 8 or that the bonus became almost irrelevant? You just said that it would be more optimal to have those than not.

If the thread is about where you see the most impact...Then the V.Human Feat has the most impact when no-one else has any. At Level 4, most classes might try for a 16 or 18. At Level 8? Some classes don't need a 20. Some would rather a Feat. At Level 12? Most classes should be picking up a Feat - or their second - by that point.

By the time everyone has one or two Feats, the fact that a Human has an extra one over everyone else makes very little difference, practically.

Because I've said it before, and no doubt I'll say it repeatedly until at least the end of the edition:

- D&D is not that hard. You don't need to optimise your character.
- You don't need to optimise your character. You have a party to help you with anything you need.


I'm not sure how a race's benefits being front-loaded make that race weaker...

That's not even close to what I said.

[Merudo]

If your argument is that the game in general gets easier once you hit higher power levels then I'm not sure how a race's benefits being front-loaded make that race weaker; surely it would be the opposite. vHuman is ubiquitous for good reasons.

It's pretty well established that VHuman is not very impactful at level 8+, and in fact is probably a rather poor choice at level 12 onward.

There are at least 2 issues with the VHuman:


The value of an additional feat decreases the more feats you already have. For example, an Archer might want Sharpshooter most so they take first, then Crossbow Expert because it's pretty good, then they should consider increasing their stats because other feats (Lucky, Res:Wis, etc) aren't quite as good as Sharpshooter or Crossbow Expert.
If the VHuman ever take a stat boost instead of a feat, they essentially neutered themselves and became a worst version of the Half-Elf (or Mountain Dwarf). An Half-Elf that takes 3 feats will have the same total stats as a VHuman that takes 3 feats then increases their stats, except the Half-Elf also gets Fey Ancestry, Darkvision, the Elf language, and an extra skill (replaceable with some cool half-elf variant abilities).

[Eldariel]

If the thread is about where you see the most impact...Then the V.Human Feat has the most impact when no-one else has any. At Level 4, most classes might try for a 16 or 18. At Level 8? Some classes don't need a 20. Some would rather a Feat. At Level 12? Most classes should be picking up a Feat - or their second - by that point.

By the time everyone has one or two Feats, the fact that a Human has an extra one over everyone else makes very little difference, practically.

So this boils down to "The difference isn't that big on higher levels", right? I can agree to a degree, but at the same time whenever I do play characters I note that had I had whatever my next key feat (or ASI) is, it would've mattered at many points. Though it feels kind of arbitrary to say that 16-18 is important but 18-20 isn't; in a bounded accuracy system there's significant value to be had for each point and the exact value depends on the target number and externals like Advantage/Disadvantage and team bonuses.

I agree that it's not visibly impactful, but those numbers are often quite impactful in ways that might not be obvious to a casual observer or even player; rarely do players stop to think what would've happened had they won Initiative instead or had that one attack landed or whatever. But yet, the difference can be exactly as massive as the difference between PAM and PAMless Fighter even though it's far less obvious.


Because I've said it before, and no doubt I'll say it repeatedly until at least the end of the edition:

- D&D is not that hard. You don't need to optimise your character.
- You don't need to optimise your character. You have a party to help you with anything you need.

Here...well, this is true if you play by DMG guidelines. Based on every survey and discussion I've read though, it sounds like that is extremely rare. Hell, basically none of the adventure modules (except perhaps the massive dungeon ones) come anywhere near those recommendations in either encounter difficulty or encounter frequency: LMoP throws you into a deadly "potential TPK ~70% of the time when the enemy makes their Stealth check"-encounter right off the bat and then into a cave with a ton of enemies for a level 1 party to take down. And then there's a Dragon way before level 5. And DoIP can throw you at a dragon at any point from level 1. That's not to say it's the only superlethal encounter in the module by a long shot. And then you have like PotA where you can get to straight-up fireball hell around level 5. ToD too has a pretty close to unwinnable fight on level 1, there's the fight vs. up to 10 Mages + level 11 Mage towards the end, etc.

In short, there's plenty of game styles where D&D can indeed be very difficult and it's entirely down to the individual group and DM. And the WotC modules are randomly really lethal (and most of the time walks in the parkway). I remembered MaxWilson mentioned often having a character death per session or two, for example. This goes for optimisation too: there are certainly campaigns (and tables) where you're better off optimising to the best of your ability and ones where it doesn't matter.

[Sorinth]

I'll give a shout out to one that I didn't see yet.

Goliath's Stone's Endurance. On a caster it's great for when you need to make a key concentration checks. I find even when being a Gish if you are concentrating on a big spell you'll shy away from the front line because you don't want to risk that concentration check. With Goliath you can feel a lot more confident in moving anywhere on the battlefield.

[stoutstien]

I'll give a shout out to one that I didn't see yet.

Goliath's Stone's Endurance. On a caster it's great for when you need to make a key concentration checks. I find even when being a Gish if you are concentrating on a big spell you'll shy away from the front line because you don't want to risk that concentration check. With Goliath you can feel a lot more confident in moving anywhere on the battlefield.

I had a player use stone endurance with AoA to good effect. Getting an extra charge out of the spell is pretty solid combo.

[Sorinth]

I had a player use stone endurance with AoA to good effect. Getting an extra charge out of the spell is pretty solid combo.

Yeah AoA has great synergy, similarly Spore Druid also benefits a lot from being able to keep their spores active.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Goliath's Stone's Endurance. On a caster it's great for when you need to make a key concentration checks.

Stone's Endurance can be used once per Long Rest, and on average the ability is negating an amount of damage equivalent to the Interception Fighting style, with the additional complication that Stone's Endurance damage mitigation is also dependent on ASI or Magic Resources being spent on increasing the user's Constitution score.

While Stone's Endurance can make a memorable splash, overall, the ability does not rise to meet my definition of "High Impact". If one could use it every round, then perhaps the ability would clear the hurdle..but alas one can't.

The rest of the Goliath race abilities are fairly lack luster, as well.

[stoutstien]

Stone's Endurance can be used once per Long Rest, and on average the ability is negating an amount of damage equivalent to the Interception Fighting style, with the additional complication that Stone's Endurance damage mitigation is also dependent on ASI or Magic Resources being spent on increasing the user's Constitution score.

While Stone's Endurance can make a memorable splash, overall, the ability does not rise to meet my definition of "High Impact". If one could use it every round, then perhaps the ability would clear the hurdle..but alas one can't.

The rest of the Goliath race abilities are fairly lack luster, as well.

SE is a S/L rest recharge.

[Cheesegear]

So this boils down to "The difference isn't that big on higher levels", right?

Well, yes. In context, I referenced Tiers a few times in that same post:
e.g; Half-Orc Relentless Endurance is really good at Level <3, then tapers off. Dwarven Armour Training is garbage...Until you start getting magical armours (around end of Tier 2). Tieflings get Fire Resistance at Level 1, then in Tier 2 they get Darkness and **** gets really real.

The title of the thread;
Q. Which species traits actually have impact?
A. Well...Some species traits are really good...Until they're not. Some species traits don't do anything...Until they do. Not every "useful" trait, is actually useful all the time.

Dwarf gets Proficiency in Brewer's Supplies.
That's dumb. What does that even do?
Xanathar's says Brewer's Supplies gives you advantage on Persuasion whilst in a tavern, and you can purify enough drink for an entire party per day every long rest without even using a spell slot.

Mason's Tools is dumb.
Xanathar's says that Dwarves get advantage on Perception checks to spot Traps now, and walls now gain Vulnerability to your weapon attacks. Oh okay. Dungeons seem real easy now.


whenever I do play characters I note that had I had whatever my next key feat (or ASI) is, it would've mattered at many points.

I agree. If I was anywhere between 2-3 levels higher than my current level, things would be different in this encounter that is set for my current level.


the exact value depends on the target number and externals like Advantage/Disadvantage and team bonuses.

Emphasis mine. You don't have to optimise your character. You just have to work well in a team.


rarely do players stop to think what would've happened had they won Initiative instead or had that one attack landed or whatever.

All my tables do that, all the time.


Here...well, this is true if you play by DMG guidelines. Based on every survey and discussion I've read though, it sounds like that is extremely rare.

In my experience this is because of the natural arms race:

- Player dies.
- Player makes a new character, stronger than the first.
- The DM notices that challenges aren't...Challenging...And increases the difficulty.
- Player dies.
- Player makes a new character, even stronger...
- The DM notices that challenges aren't...Challenging...And increases the difficulty.
- Other players die, because the DM made the encounters too hard in order to combat the specific player. But if no-one else is power-gaming, the entire system falls apart.


Hell, basically none of the adventure modules (except perhaps the massive dungeon ones) come anywhere near those recommendations in either encounter difficulty or encounter frequency: LMoP throws you into a deadly "potential TPK ~70% of the time when the enemy makes their Stealth check"-encounter right off the bat and then into a cave with a ton of enemies for a level 1 party to take down. And then there's a Dragon way before level 5. And DoIP can throw you at a dragon at any point from level 1.

In both of those modules, those are features. Not bugs. IMO. Sometimes, fights aren't designed to be winnable, and either you need to run away, or use something other than 'deal more damage than the DM', in order to win the fight (e.g; Fog Cloud deals no damage and yet wins encounters).

I used Dragon of Icespire Peak to teach my players a very good lesson; Death doesn't mean game over, and it definitely doesn't mean campaign over. You don't die. Just roll a new character. You don't have to always 'play it safe', 'cause sometimes, you just die. That's life...Or death, rather. I feel like it's super important to teach new players that when they die...Nothing happens. This means that players are more likely to make decisions, rather than agonise for 15 minutes IRL, over which door to open first because one might be trapped. Just pick one so we can hurry up! 4 hours is not a lot of time, Adventurer's League is a lie! If you die, you die...And that's actually okay.

Hoard of the Dragon Queen has an Adult Blue Dragon fight...At Level 1. I also feel like those kinds of fights, sets up the stakes. This is the kind of thing you're up against. The fact that the fight is Deadly - or even Impossible - is kind of the point of the encounter. In effect, you're being railroaded, and someone in the party is going to die...And sometimes, that's a good thing.

[Sorinth]

Stone's Endurance can be used once per Long Rest, and on average the ability is negating an amount of damage equivalent to the Interception Fighting style, with the additional complication that Stone's Endurance damage mitigation is also dependent on ASI or Magic Resources being spent on increasing the user's Constitution score.

While Stone's Endurance can make a memorable splash, overall, the ability does not rise to meet my definition of "High Impact". If one could use it every round, then perhaps the ability would clear the hurdle..but alas one can't.

The rest of the Goliath race abilities are fairly lack luster, as well.

It's recharge on SR, the main value isn't so much the damage reduction itself it's what that damage reduction entails. It's a big help in dealing with Concentration checks. And like @stoutstien pointed out, it can be the difference between having AoA trigger an additional time which is pretty impactful.

[Thunderous Mojo]

It's recharge on SR, the main value isn't so much the damage reduction itself it's what that damage reduction entails. It's a big help in dealing with Concentration checks. And like @stoutstien pointed out, it can be the difference between having AoA trigger an additional time which is pretty impactful.

Damn Voice to Speech...left out the Short Rest portion of the prior post that was intending to state "Short Rest/Long Rest" recharge. C'est La Vie!

One of the characters I play is a Psi Warrior fighter with the Interception Fighting style in a party of arcane casters,(Wizard, Sorcerer, Artillerist), so I agree and fully understand the impact that damage reduction can have on Concentration checks.

My quibble, is that Stone's Endurance, even with a Short Rest + recharge, doesn't reach the threshold of being "High Impact", according to my aesthetic calculus.

Stone's Endurance will help you with a single Concentration check, per SR. While that is not an inconsequential boon, realistically, one is likely going to need to make multiple Concentration checks in a combat, especially if the spell you are maintaining, is the critical factor against the OPFOR.

Ultimately, I think a goblin spellcaster, can use their racial abilities to a better effect, than Stone's Edurances, vis a vis protecting Concentration on a spell.

[Sorinth]

Damn Voice to Speech...left out the Short Rest portion of the prior post that was intending to state "Short Rest/Long Rest" recharge. C'est La Vie!

One of the characters I play is a Psi Warrior fighter with the Interception Fighting style in a party of arcane casters,(Wizard, Sorcerer, Artillerist), so I agree and fully understand the impact that damage reduction can have on Concentration checks.

My quibble, is that Stone's Endurance, even with a Short Rest + recharge, doesn't reach the threshold of being "High Impact", according to my aesthetic calculus.

Stone's Endurance will help you with a single Concentration check, per SR. While that is not an inconsequential boon, realistically, one is likely going to need to make multiple Concentration checks in a combat, especially if the spell you are maintaining, is the critical factor against the OPFOR.

Ultimately, I think a goblin spellcaster, can use their racial abilities to a better effect, than Stone's Edurances, vis a vis protecting Concentration on a spell.

I would probably also consider Goblin to be better. Stone's Endurance can impact how a player might play the character, and to a degree spell selection as well so it's a fit for the thread OP which was less concerned about overall power, and more style.

Stone's Endurance can do that since it's on top of things like proficiency in Con saving throws and/or Warcaster. So even though you are making multiple concentration checks per SR, you are confident to make them up until that big damage hit. That's when Stone's Endurance really comes into play, turning those hard to make concentration checks into reasonable to make. So gameplay wise it's going to allow that caster to be in melee range without worrying too much, in essence it gives a much different play experience to the goblin who will be hiding/disengaging from melee.

Hobgolin's Save Face can enable that same gameplay change and is just overall much better at it. But Goliaths do get that Cold Resistance which might make it worthwhile depending on the campaign.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Dragonborn
- Cold or Fire Resistance, from Level 1, is extremely good. Unfortunately, they come tied to a Cold or Fire Breath Weapon, which is less good. Common Damage and Resistance types are Common types.
(e.g; Lizardfolk are a fairly common species, that infamously don't even speak Common)

Honestly, this is actually one of my favorite balancing features for the dragonborn... or rather, it would be if the breath weapon wasn't garbage. Trade out the ability to resist a lot of common damage for a breath weapon that's commonly resisted, or have a rarely resisted breath weapon with the tradeoff of your racial resistance not being too useful.

They just needed to make the breath weapon good.

[loki_ragnarock]

Honestly, this is actually one of my favorite balancing features for the dragonborn... or rather, it would be if the breath weapon wasn't garbage. Trade out the ability to resist a lot of common damage for a breath weapon that's commonly resisted, or have a rarely resisted breath weapon with the tradeoff of your racial resistance not being too useful.

They just needed to make the breath weapon good.

Just stick with the resistance.

You aren't going to be using the breath weapon after a certain point, anyway.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Stone's Endurance can impact how a player might play the character, and to a degree spell selection as well so it's a fit for the thread OP which was less concerned about overall power, and more style.

A Goliath is stylish? . A Triton can talk to frogs, fish, and anything that breaths water. A Triton can summon fogs and mists, end doldrums on the oceans, and summon a Ring of Water.

A Kenku has the same mimicry ability as a crow, which means Kenku have scores of secret languages at their disposal. A Kenku is also a natural counterfeiter...a Kenku Forge Priest Counterfeiter strikes me as more stylish, and a more engaging PC to play than a Goliath.

A Kenku's racial abilities from extra skills to forging and mimicry require active input from the player. Even if a Kenku is "underpowered" as a race option, electing to play a Kenku is a "high impact" choice in terms of playstyle.

I just don't find the above to be at all true about Goliaths.

Thanks for presenting another view of Goliaths for me to consider! 👍

[Kuulvheysoon]

Just stick with the resistance.

You aren't going to be using the breath weapon after a certain point, anyway.

You'll notice that I added the condition of the breath weapon actually being good, ie worth the cost to use them. As it stands, it's not too bad in (early) Tier 1, but after that it's basically not worth it.

[Joe the Rat]

Bugbears definitely play differently.

A Bugbear Battlemaster with a whip or a polearm can hit people from what is normally considered close missile range. Anyone can take Lunging strike, even with a polearm. But bugbear has added incentive - sheer ridiculousness.

The Ambush trick encourages jump-scare tactics. Even the non-rogue may be inclined to make stealth a priority.

if you count feats, Well-rested is a great example of a feat that doubles-down on the racial ribbons. Bugbears are described as being generally lazy. The feat encourages you to take naps.

[Frogreaver]

Halfling - being small opens up a lot of Mount options.

Wood Elf stealth ability can change playstyle depending on how stealth is ran. Also the extra speed can make kiting much more applicable.

Mountain Dwarf armor can open up a different playstyle for any low AC character.

Variant human extra feat opens up a lot of different playstyle options.

[Angelalex242]

Tiefling's infernal constitution is fantastic. Ice resistance and dwarven poison resistance will matter a lot.

But I play vhumans for a reason, and the level 1 feat is that reason.

[Merudo]

Disguise Self doesn't hold up to physical inspection. Alter Self does, but it'll still ping basic low level "someone is using magic to fool us" warning systems, which can make it hard to get into that exclusive noble gala unless their security is a joke. It also is self-only, and Concentration-based. Your whole masquerade can come crumbling down from getting poked.


Alter Self + Nystul’s Magic Aura would work against everything but True Sight.

[Kane0]

Stonecunning paired with racial proficiency in masonry.

Goliath athletics prof + powerful build + damage reduction, especially when used for one-upmanship

[LudicSavant]

Alter Self + Nystul’s Magic Aura would work against everything but True Sight.

It wouldn't even work against all the stuff mentioned in the post you replied to. The fact that it's a self-only Concentration spell makes it relatively easy to foil, whether you have Nystul's Magic Aura or not.

Edit

You have selected...Wizard.
You've also decided to rocket yourself to Level 20.

The argument is already fallacious, since your baseline is a Level 20 Wizard. :smallsigh:

:smallconfused: Eldariel didn't use level 20 as a baseline. Here's what he actually said:


Example: Vuman Wizard has 3 ASIs to everyone else's 2 on level 8. The only way others can catch up is by taking a half-feat, which are universally much weaker than full feats (Elven Accuracy on some builds not withstanding). Like you're a level 8 Wizard: your options are having Alert, Lucky and 18 Int or 18 Int + Telekinetic & Lucky OR Alert as any other race. It seems like an easy choice in favour of Vuman. Custom Lineage of course can have that half-feat and a full feat on top of it, but at the cost of a lower score in the secondary stat.

And this applies all the way to 20

Bolding mine.

Looks like he's basically just saying that VHuman's benefit doesn't go obsolete as you level up (whether it's 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, or 20).

[Merudo]

It wouldn't even work against all the stuff mentioned in the post you replied to. The fact that it's a self-only Concentration spell makes it relatively easy to foil, whether you have Nystul's Magic Aura or not.


Not sure how it being self-only and concentration makes Alter Self + Nystul's Magic Aura "easy to foil". To force a decent concentration check you'd have to hurt the caster pretty badly. Do the organizations in your world severely & routinely hurt their members in order to force a concentration check? Do hosts at parties run their guests through a sword to check for a potential illusionist?

Beside testing concentration, the alternatives (beside True Sight) is to cast Dispel Magic on every person, potentially multiple times in case the spell fails. That seems quite expensive, and would reasonably only be doable on small gatherings.

[Tanarii]

Not sure how it being self-only and concentration makes Alter Self + Nystul's Magic Aura "easy to foil". To force a decent concentration check you'd have to hurt the caster pretty badly. Do the organizations in your world severely & routinely hurt their members in order to force a concentration check? Do hosts at parties run their guests through a sword to check for a potential illusionist?
Stick them with a pin 3 times. Unless they're a Sorcerer, their odds of success are probably ~4%, with a 35% (+2 vs DC 10) chance of success on each check.

[Merudo]

Stick them with a pin 3 times. Unless they're a Sorcerer, their odds of success are probably ~4%, with a 35% (+2 vs DC 10) chance of success on each check.

No self respecting caster has a meager +2 to concentration checks.

[Tanarii]

No self respecting caster has a meager +2 to concentration checks.
They're likely to have that for a large chunk of the game if it's standard array and no feats. That's why I specified Sorcerer.

Resilient (Con) is a game changing feat for casters that use concentration spells. And even then it's not necessarily the first Feat a caster picks up.

My blue text was because sticking someone with a pin isn't necessarily enough to trigger a concentration check, in most DMs eyes. :smallamused:

[Kuulvheysoon]

No self respecting caster has a meager +2 to concentration checks.

Uhhh... at 3rd level (the earliest point where you could pull this off) there could absolutely be "self-respecting casters" with a +2 to Constitution saves. That's a 14/15 in the ability, which is pretty solid (especially a 15 if you're planning on taking Resilient: Con at 4th level).

EDIT: Also, especially at low levels, a pair of 2nd level spell slots is a huge investment, and considering that alter self especially doesn't have the greatest duration, since the vast majority of games are low level it's also far more efficient resource-wise to be a changeling if that's the gamestyle you're intent on pursuing.

[Eldariel]

Emphasis mine. You don't have to optimise your character. You just have to work well in a team.

But those two are in no ways at odds with one another. Weak characters not working together are weak. Weak characters working together are less weak but still weak. Strong characters not working together are strong. Strong characters working together are stronger still.

The game can feature situations where any of those power levels suffices, or even ones where none might. What is obvious though is that the stronger the party is, the stronger challenges it can take on. And both, stronger individual characters and stronger teamplay make for a stronger party. There's a limit to what teamplay can accomplish with weak characters though: few Blesses and Crusader's Mantles doesn't really compare to Spike Growth + Grapple + Cutting Words or Darkness + Devil's Sight/Blind-Fighting teams.


In my experience this is because of the natural arms race:

- Player dies.
- Player makes a new character, stronger than the first.
- The DM notices that challenges aren't...Challenging...And increases the difficulty.
- Player dies.
- Player makes a new character, even stronger...
- The DM notices that challenges aren't...Challenging...And increases the difficulty.
- Other players die, because the DM made the encounters too hard in order to combat the specific player. But if no-one else is power-gaming, the entire system falls apart.

That's one way it might go. Another is that the DM has set pieces that the players go through: this leads to some impossible, some easy encounters with the party adjudicating which way to go. Yet another is just running e.g. AL as written where the players are faced with fixed difficulty challenges and thus parties with stronger characters have a lower likelihood of dying while ones with weaker ones have a higher one.

Finally, there's just DM doing the normal adjusted challenging thing and just preferring a slightly greater challenge. Instead of Medium/Medium/Hard/Hard/Medium/Deadly/Deadly/Deadly, they might run Deadly x2/Deadly/Deadly x3/Deadly/etc. This is especially true for DMs who don't enjoy attrition: there you have to pump up the challenge significantly, which does raise the likelihood of TPK: maybe a Deadly x3 followed by a Deadly x2 and then a Deadly and finally a Deadly x4. This doesn't necessarily have to be in response to player optimisation: it can just be a DM (and the players) preferring more lethality and greater challenge.


In both of those modules, those are features. Not bugs. IMO. Sometimes, fights aren't designed to be winnable, and either you need to run away, or use something other than 'deal more damage than the DM', in order to win the fight (e.g; Fog Cloud deals no damage and yet wins encounters).

I used Dragon of Icespire Peak to teach my players a very good lesson; Death doesn't mean game over, and it definitely doesn't mean campaign over. You don't die. Just roll a new character. You don't have to always 'play it safe', 'cause sometimes, you just die. That's life...Or death, rather. I feel like it's super important to teach new players that when they die...Nothing happens. This means that players are more likely to make decisions, rather than agonise for 15 minutes IRL, over which door to open first because one might be trapped. Just pick one so we can hurry up! 4 hours is not a lot of time, Adventurer's League is a lie! If you die, you die...And that's actually okay.

Hoard of the Dragon Queen has an Adult Blue Dragon fight...At Level 1. I also feel like those kinds of fights, sets up the stakes. This is the kind of thing you're up against. The fact that the fight is Deadly - or even Impossible - is kind of the point of the encounter. In effect, you're being railroaded, and someone in the party is going to die...And sometimes, that's a good thing.

Oh, I agree, it's totally okay! It's also a place where a strong party with strong characters and some luck can pull off surprise victories though - and those are memorable IME. Cyanwrath for example is...beatable if rough on level 1-2 (level 2 Moon Druid has a reasonable shot in melee especially with Mage Armor, level 1 involves kiting with e.g. Expeditious Retreat). And there's indeed a good lesson to be had in escaping - something strong characters are naturally better at. All of that speaks for strong characters having a higher likelihood of surviving, be it level 1 or level 13.

And yes, dying is okay, but I generally would prefer not dying to dying. If I put a lot of effort into a character's backstory and connections in the world and role in the story, I generally would prefer that they survive for as long as possible. And in any case, if dying is happening, I wouldn't say the game is easy.

[follacchioso]

Nobody mentioned the Aggressive trait of pure Orcs, but in my experience is a very effective trait.

It allows you to use a BA to move towards an enemy, so it is a limited Dash bonus action.

This is extremely useful on melee fighters as most of the times you don't start a fight within melee range of an enemy. I had it on a melee swords bard, and between longstrider and mobile it allowed for a very agile fighter.

It is also useful on casters, as you can use the BA dash to move into position, then use normal movement to find a safe spot.

Orcs seem lacklustre compared with half-orc because they don't have relentless endurance. However in my experience Aggressive + 2 extra skills makes them very effective.

[LudicSavant]

EDIT: Also, especially at low levels, a pair of 2nd level spell slots is a huge investment, and considering that alter self especially doesn't have the greatest duration, since the vast majority of games are low level it's also far more efficient resource-wise to be a changeling if that's the gamestyle you're intent on pursuing.

Yeah. Basically, Changeling transformation is better than having Nystul's + Alter Self.

A changeling can sleep without breaking their form, which is important for longer infiltrations. As well as deal with any other status that causes you to be Incapacitated, however briefly.

A changeling can reliably fight alongside their "allies" without breaking their form.

A changeling can be subjected to Dispel Magic or Globe of Invulnerability or Antimagic Field or anything of the sort without breaking their form.

A changeling can impersonate a mage and Concentrate on something without breaking their form (try asking people at a secretive mages' gathering to concentrate on something before they enter -- it counters a number of troublemaker tactics).

A changeling can maintain their impersonation over any length of observation (even an at-will Alter Self will require you to re-up every hour).

A changeling can mimic voices.

Even Detect Thoughts might arguably not work if they're one of those changelings who lives their persona so thoroughly it fills their surface thoughts (check out the Eberron lore for just how far Changelings go with their personas).

Stuff like Witch Sight, True Sight, and Moonbeam will still reveal you. But the list of things that can reveal you is shorter than Alter Self, so you can actually plausibly live a double life over an extended period, whereas Alter Self (even at-will Alter Self + Nystul's Magical Aura) makes long-term infiltration more dicey (because sleeping, injury, and anything that dispels or anything that triggers off of you Concentrating on something can give up the gambit).

[Gignere]

Pack tactics is an amazingly impactful racial trait. In the right party/environment it is basically permanent advantage on attacks.

[Wraith]

It was briefly mentioned on page 1 and then lost in the flow, but I think that Sunlight Sensitivity is one of, if not the, most impactful of racial traits.

Free feats are useful two or three times per session if they are relevant. Free spells are useful once or twice per fight, assuming that they're useful to the build or situation or that you don't just want to throw a fireball instead. Resistances and immunities are cool, on the off chance that you're fighting something that uses that element (or that your GM isn't a jerk who deliberately picks spells/enemies that circumvent your One Thing).

But Sunlight Sensitivity changes the way you do everything; combat, skill checks, and it shapes how you role-play at least 50% of the time even if it's something as small as how your character likes to dress - can't go anywhere without their smoked glasses or wide-brimmed hat, right? :smallsmile:

Don't get me wrong, 5e's character creation is much more inclusive and inviting than that of 3.5e when everyone had a nega-trait to deal with, but sometimes I feel like a few more similar traits in the game - Kenku's mimicry, for example - would go a long way to shaping characters in interesting ways and giving players reasons to approach situations from a different angle.

[elyktsorb]

Actually, I'm a little surprised I haven't seen the halfing re-rolling of 1s mentioned. A critical miss require 2 ones rolled in a row taking the chances from 1 in 20 to 1 in 400. Over the course of your game, being able to re-roll 5% of your rolls is substantial.

Halfling luck is never super noteworthy because everyone goes, oh it's a halfling so you never really notice their 1's all that much.

I will say if that Halfling gets the Bountiful Luck feat, then it starts being waay more noticeable since the odds of another playing and the halfling rolling a 1 in the same turn is low, but you just starting seeing every single 1 get re-rolled pretty much.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Pack tactics is an amazingly impactful racial trait. In the right party/environment it is basically permanent advantage on attacks.

Ugh, don't even get me started on how terrible of a choice it was to give a race Pack Tactics. I immediately banned kobold, and I'm a generally permissive DM.

[Gignere]

Ugh, don't even get me started on how terrible of a choice it was to give a race Pack Tactics. I immediately banned kobold, and I'm a generally permissive DM.

See it’s an impactful racial trait.

[Angelalex242]

Or...if you're playing a vhuman spellcaster, I'd recommend taking your favorite feat and getting your casting stat straight to 20 at level 8. Save DC for spells is generally number 1 on every list, and you won't ever regret minimizing the chance of an opponent making his saves.

But by all means, take resilient Con at level 1, or warcaster if you're a sorcerer, and never fear concentration checks again.

[Ettina]

Ugh, don't even get me started on how terrible of a choice it was to give a race Pack Tactics. I immediately banned kobold, and I'm a generally permissive DM.

Pack Tactics is very strong, but Pack Tactics on a race with Sunlight Sensitivity and a negative ASI rounds out to balanced. I'd only ban them in a campaign where sunlight isn't relevant, if at all.

[Cheesegear]

But those two are in no ways at odds with one another. Weak characters not working together are weak. Weak characters working together are less weak but still weak. Strong characters not working together are strong. Strong characters working together are stronger still.

This is all true. But is it necessary?


What is obvious though is that the stronger the party is, the stronger challenges it can take on. And both, stronger individual characters and stronger teamplay make for a stronger party.

But when you boil it down to what that means is simply: 'We can fight a Dragon at Level 4, instead of at Level 6.'

Congratulations. You did it! You made it so your numbers are really high. Which means you can take on stronger challenges. Which allows the DM to give you stronger challenges, which simply means that the goal post gets moved and you've achieved nothing.


Another is that the DM has set pieces that the players go through: this leads to some impossible, some easy encounters with the party adjudicating which way to go.

Well that's kind of what I mean. If the DM wants somebody to die, they will. If the DM doesn't want someone to die, they probably - usually - wont. The power level of your personal character - let alone your whole party - just isn't that important, because it's your DM that controls everything. As long as your DM isn't overtly cheating, you, the player, don't really need to be that strong.


AL as written where the players are faced with fixed difficulty challenges and thus parties with stronger characters have a lower likelihood of dying while ones with weaker ones have a higher one.

The AL modules I've read give the DMs leeway to make challenges harder (or easier) if they want, and they even provide encounter increases/decreases that make sense within the story.
The book modules, from what I've seen, rarely do this, and I think that's their major failing.


This doesn't necessarily have to be in response to player optimisation: it can just be a DM (and the players) preferring more lethality and greater challenge.

I said previously that my sessions usually aren't particularly long. Which means that my sessions typically go for shorter, harder encounters, because I simply don't have time to run 6-8 encounters in a session. I would run Easy and Medium challenges all the time if I could. Unfortunately, I just don't have the IRL time in my sessions to make those kinds of encounters worthwhile.


And yes, dying is okay, but I generally would prefer not dying to dying.

The problem is that people don't want to 'not die'. If that were the case a spellcaster would just drop a Fog Cloud at the first sign of trouble and then just walk out of the encounter.

They want to make their numbers as high as possible, which turns Deadly encounters into Medium encounters, which only makes the DM move the goal posts.
The DM shouldn't have to move the goal posts to create a challenging experience.

[sambojin]

The Firbolg racial package is usually pretty impactful. It's like "hey, I'm now a druid/ trickster" lite, and gives you oodles of abilities to play with regularly, all of which come up often enough to actually add a tonne of flexibility to any character class.

The Super-Disguise-Self is amazing. Being able to be around 3'-7' tall opens up the vast majority of all humanoid races to you for your illusions, and it being non-concentration for 1hr per short rest gives you plenty of uses to muck around with it. All the downsides of normal Disguise Self, but with heaps more options available for your disguises.

Popping invis as a bonus action is very handy for anyone. Do what you're going to do, then give everything disadvantage on attacks against you. Always gets used at some point, but can have a bit of non-combat use as well.

Speech of Beast and Leaf opens up an entire world of being annoying with animals to you. Plenty of RP potential, and can sometimes give you a very dumb familiar for free. Just remember, you can't turn it off.

Detect Magic is handy to simply be able to flick on when you want it, no ritual casting time overhead needed. Want to know if there's magic about? Now you do. Gets used at least once-twice a day, although not always usefully. Knowing that there isn't magic around is handy too though.

The double carry capacity can come up, and having a 240lb carry with strength as a dump stat is purely convenient.

So, does it change how you play? Not really. It just gives you so many more options with so many classes (especially ones like fighter or barb) that you feel like you've got a spare subclass bolted in, all from level 1. It's actually even better with magical classes, due to the sheer amount of short-rest or always-on resources it gives you. It changes what you can do, and how you can approach situations, instead of taking over your main class/subclass's way of doing things.
---------

For impactful feats, I'd have to go with Ritual Caster. It scales, it gives you tonnes of magic as you level up, and it can alter a lot of non-combat stuff massively. Doesn't really matter what class you take it in, they're mostly pretty good, although Wizard is best. Like most things, one feat will get you good at something, two will get you great at it. Any combo of ritual caster and either more ritual caster or magical initiate (probably wizard) or a Tasha's magic feat, and you'll feel like a competent magician for the entire campaign, no matter what your base class is. It's especially good as your v.human/ Tasha's weird background free feat, so you're a pretty competent caster from lvl1, and it gives you something impactful to spend your gold on/ to fight over scrolls for. Wizards and warriors having study meetings is not unheard of with this. You can still be plenty good as a melee character, but you're never short of options out-of-combat, which you often are without some magical feat support. Even silly stuff like Magic Mouth (because you can make lots of them, with different triggering conditions) are useful in some way. This goes double if you have a pretty magical racial package, like the Firbolg above.

Ritual Caster is especially good for 1/2 or 1/3 casters too. You'll actually be getting higher level ritual spells than you could normally cast with slots, and they're all utility. It might not help your combat gishiness, but for every other problem that can come up in an adventuring day, there's a ritual for that (or creative uses of familiars. It's scary just how much a hawk can carry, even as a tiny creature). It does help in combat a bit too, just through help action spamming as well.

I usually pick Find Familiar and Tenser's Floating Disc from Wizard as a Firbolg Moon Druid. Because I like being a chariot for the party from time to time :)
Then, since druids have virtually nothing worthwhile to spend their gold on, I pick up a smattering of scrolls or spell-learning throughout the campaign. Is it powerful? Kind of. I never really run out of spell slots or ability to make non-problems from encounters. I probably wouldn't have any problems anyway, this just adds to the creative options open to me. Saves blowing slots or wildshape on utility, which means more goodberries or spell slinging or free HP during the life or death times.

[LudicSavant]

This is all true. But is it necessary?



But when you boil it down to what that means is simply: 'We can fight a Dragon at Level 4, instead of at Level 6.'

Congratulations. You did it! You made it so your numbers are really high. Which means you can take on stronger challenges. Which allows the DM to give you stronger challenges, which simply means that the goal post gets moved and you've achieved nothing.

Many find it intrinsically rewarding to conquer games on higher difficulty settings instead of easier ones. That's why difficulty settings exist, and why they don't usually give you extra rewards for beating them.

[Cheesegear]

Many find it intrinsically rewarding to conquer games on higher difficulty settings instead of easier ones.

My point is that D&D doesn't have higher difficulties. D&D has scaling difficulty, which means that you can't actually "win", per se.

Instead of Bandits and Kobolds, the DM simply changes the encounter to and Scouts and Orcs. The DM moves the goal posts.

If your character is power-gamed to fight Scouts and Orcs, the difficulty is actually the same, not 'higher'. Which means that there's very little - if any - value to doing it. As I said, if the DM wants to make an encounter where someone dies...They're making an encounter where someone dies.

[Frogreaver]

My point is that D&D doesn't have higher difficulties. D&D has scaling difficulty, which means that you can't actually "win", per se.

Instead of Bandits and Kobolds, the DM simply changes the encounter to and Scouts and Orcs. The DM moves the goal posts.

If your character is power-gamed to fight Scouts and Orcs, the difficulty is actually the same, not 'higher'. Which means that there's very little - if any - value to doing it. As I said, if the DM wants to make an encounter where someone dies...They're making an encounter where someone dies.

This 100%. Though, one thing being stronger and fighting stronger enemies does is tends to level you faster. I find leveling too fast to be detrimental to the game experience.

[LudicSavant]

Instead of Bandits and Kobolds, the DM simply changes the encounter to and Scouts and Orcs. The DM moves the goal posts.

Many find it intrinsically rewarding to conquer the harder goal posts instead of the easier goal posts. That's why difficulty settings (the ability to change the goal posts you have to overcome) exist, and why they don't usually give you extra rewards for beating them.

[Eldariel]

My point is that D&D doesn't have higher difficulties. D&D has scaling difficulty, which means that you can't actually "win", per se.

Instead of Bandits and Kobolds, the DM simply changes the encounter to and Scouts and Orcs. The DM moves the goal posts.

If your character is power-gamed to fight Scouts and Orcs, the difficulty is actually the same, not 'higher'. Which means that there's very little - if any - value to doing it. As I said, if the DM wants to make an encounter where someone dies...They're making an encounter where someone dies.

In a sandbox world with full PC agency, it can also mean the players can do things they couldn't have done otherwise: traverse locations they couldn't have, talk to people they couldn't have, fight things they couldn't have otherwise. This is how I like to run the game: I have a world full of set pieces (kinda Hexcrawlish though not with that much detail - just the roosts of the Dragons, the lairs of the Purple Worms, the homes of the Aboleths, the towers of the Magi, etc.) and the players adventure as they please while either watching stuff unfold or not giving a crap. Their own power level is a direct factor in how likely they are to die doing any given thing, and what they can do in the first place, not to mention who would entertain their company or give them notice (in both, positive and negative sense).

[Derpldorf]

Firbolg's Hidden Step makes some pretty cool setup for a Rogue, go invisible stroll up to the juiciest target and get an advantage sneak attack.

[Ettina]

It boggles my mind that people are arguing that a racial feature you can use as much as you want isn't impactful because a 2nd level concentration spell can duplicate the effect of it, and a 1st level spell can do something similar.

If you had a racial ability to cast a 1st level spell at will, that would be incredibly strong.

[Witty Username]

Less of a thing in a post-tasha world but githyanki greatsword proficiency on casters. It may make your build to have a weapon you need from your race.
On a second point, I feel like githyanki gets overlooked in powerful race discussions, especially when mountain dwarf in in the conversation. The are very comparable in terms of features, the spells and extra skill are pretty neat to have in game. I think the only sticking point is darkvision.

[Merudo]

Less of a thing in a post-tasha world but githyanki greatsword proficiency on casters. It may make your build to have a weapon you need from your race.
On a second point, I feel like githyanki gets overlooked in powerful race discussions, especially when mountain dwarf in in the conversation. The are very comparable in terms of features, the spells and extra skill are pretty neat to have in game. I think the only sticking point is darkvision.

They are close enough, especially if your character can't make meaningful use of the Dwarf additional +2.

Dwarf Advantages:

- Additional +2 instead of a +1
- Poison resistance & advantage on saving throw
- Darkvision
- Speed not affect by heavy armor
- Additional weapon proficiency
- 1 tool proficiency
- Stonecunning
- Dwarven language

Githyanki Advantages

- Skill or tool proficiency
- 30' move speed
- Mage Hand cantrip (invisible no component)
- Jump spell 1/long rest (no component)
- Misty Step 1/long rest (no component)
- Gith language

A few of those are mostly ribbons: the tool proficiencies, stone cunning, language, and heavy armor speed. The extra weapon proficiency is also unlikely to be helpful (3 extra weapon/tool proficiencies are most likely enough)

So really, we are looking at

Dwarf Actual Advantages:

- Additional +2 instead of a +1
- Poison resistance & advantage on saving throw
- Darkvision

Githyanki Actual Advantages

- Skill proficiency
- 30' move speed
- Mage Hand cantrip (invisible no component)
- Jump spell 1/long rest (no component)
- Misty Step 1/long rest (no component)

Darkvision depends heavily on the party composition. If few people have it in your party, you probably won't miss it much.

Poison Resistance depends on the campaign too. I play Icewind Dale and I've not seen it come up yet.

I do believe that the Misty Step without component is underrated; because it doesn't have V component, it can be used in a Silence spell, or to move perfectly quietly.

Jump is not a spell I would prepare normally, but it can often be useful during exploration. You can replicate a Levitation or Spider Climb to some extend; a character with a +5 strength can jump up 24 feet, and do a 60 feet long jump.

[Chugger]

Variant Human. Picking a feat at lvl 1 can be amazing.

The obvious ones are GWM and SS.

But other feats can be pretty great, too.

Alert + something like War Wizard's + Int to init - and a Weapon of Warning to get adv on init rolls - you're going first quite often. Going first can have a huge impact on some fights.

Elven Accuracy can be ridiculously good.

Magic Init can be amazing - having a familiar and, esp. if you're rogue - almost always havng advantage for sneak attack is wonderful.

If you're a caster who needs warcaster or resilient con to keep concentration going, again, getting this feat early via human variant and using the lvl 4 and lvl 8 asi's to put up your main casting stat (int, wis or cha) - very useful and powerful.

And so on.

[Avonar]

Less of a thing in a post-tasha world but githyanki greatsword proficiency on casters. It may make your build to have a weapon you need from your race.
On a second point, I feel like githyanki gets overlooked in powerful race discussions, especially when mountain dwarf in in the conversation. The are very comparable in terms of features, the spells and extra skill are pretty neat to have in game. I think the only sticking point is darkvision.

I still dream of playing my greatsword wielding Githyanki war wizard.

[XmonkTad]

Not sure if it'll count, but I'll mention Fire Genasi's "Reach to the Blaze". Produce flame based on CON can give a solid ranged option to an otherwise melee character that doesn't have the mental stats usually associated with a spell.