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Greywander
2021-06-18, 07:02 PM
I've been wanting to playtest a homebrew wild magic system (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g9G0MwlSF3E6HFDJizb6lUH2gjC4PFSiV63dMjciMW4/edit?usp=sharing) I wrote up a while back that's based on Tzeentch's Curse from Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. The system is class-agnostic, so it can be used with any spellcasting class, not just Wild Magic sorcerers (although there is some minor synergy).

Here's a summary of how the magic system works:

There are no spell slots or sorcery points. Spam as much as you like, if you can bear the risk.
To cast a spell (or use any ability fueled by spell slots), you must pass a spellcasting check where the DC depends on the spell's level. The spell fizzles if you fail.
When you make a spellcasting check, you can choose to roll one to four dice, adding them together. Rolling more dice increases the chance of successfully casting the spell.
If you roll doubles, triples, or quadruples, you trigger a wild magic surge. Rolling more dice for your spellcasting checks increases the risk of a wild magic surge.
Minor surges (doubles) are a temporary inconvenience, major surges (triples) are permanent and/or directly harmful, and catastrophic surges (quadruples) can end your career.
Using metamagic adds the sorcery point cost to the spellcasting DC, making it harder to cast the spell. Abilities that cost sorcery points to use have their own formula.
Your spellcasting dice increase in size as you level. You can eventually cast 1st and 2nd level spells by rolling a single die, with no risk of a surge. This makes any 1st or 2nd level spell a pseudo-ritual.
Because of how the math works, what I expect is that lower levels spells will be more common because they are easier to spam, while higher level spells will be rarer because of the high chance of failure coupled with the risk of a surge.
Where other casters would get more spell slots, you instead either increase the size of your spellcasting dice or get a wild magic feature.

If this sounds like it's too strong, keep in mind that: (a) The failure rate for your highest level spells is always high. When you learn Fireball, it only has a 50% success rate when rolling three dice, and Wish only has a 31% success rate when rolling all four dice (<5% with only three dice). (b) One catastrophic surge can be enough to end you. Wild magic is all about risk management: is the benefit offered by a spell worth the chance that the spell might fail, wasting your turn? Is it worth the risk of a wild magic surge? Do you roll four dice and risk a major or catastrophic surge, or roll two dice and risk your spell failing?

What would be a good build for this style of magic? Due to the interaction with sorcery points, a sorcerer could be quite strong. Perhaps some kind of sorcadin or sorlock, where I can smite on every strike or quicken EB every round. Since lower level spells are likely to be more commonly cast, I could also do some crazy multiclass that dips into several different casters to get a wider variety of low level spells. Though if I'm trying to playtest the wild magic system, I should probably stick to one class, at least enough to get 9th level spells.

I suppose to fully leverage this wild magic system, I'd be looking for (a) low level spells that spam well (i.e. not concentration, and fairly potent, e.g. Fireball), and (b) metamagic spam (twin and quicken being the obvious ones). Paladin smites, despite not being spells, fit into category (a), but even a 1 level dip into paladin means not getting the wild magic capstone (as I can never attain caster level 20). For (b), something like a quickened empowered EB followed by twinned empowered Mind Sliver might be a good staple, doing good damage (from EB) while debuffing two enemies' saves for my allies. Or, I could use transmuted spell with a dragon sorc to change every spell to my element.

While Wild Magic sorcerer has some synergy (you get Controlled Chaos as part of the subclass, freeing you up to choose a different wild magic feature), Divine Soul allows access to a broader set of spells, including some really nice ones. Alternatively, a Necromancer wizard who can theoretically animate infinite undead (but then you're on the hook to keep them under control, which means risking a lot of surges every day).

I could also aim to exploit some of the wild magic features. Power Fluctuation allows me to roll the check before deciding what level to cast the spell at (so you can cast it at the highest level that would be successful), which works really well with any low level spells or smites. Power Boost lets me replace one or more dice with 4 + a smaller die (e.g. a d8 becomes 1d4 + 4), which is supposed to increase your risk of a surge, but works well when rolling only one die (e.g. risk-free Shield spam becomes a 1 in 4 chance instead of 1 in 8, see also twinned/quickened cantrips). Looking at the math, Power Boost looks like it also helps a lot with casting high level spells, too (Wish goes from 31% to 83% chance). Hmm, perhaps I underestimated this feature; I might need to rewrite it. (That's why it needs playtesting, after all.)

Frogreaver
2021-06-18, 07:13 PM
I've been wanting to playtest a homebrew wild magic system (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g9G0MwlSF3E6HFDJizb6lUH2gjC4PFSiV63dMjciMW4/edit?usp=sharing) I wrote up a while back that's based on Tzeentch's Curse from Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. The system is class-agnostic, so it can be used with any spellcasting class, not just Wild Magic sorcerers (although there is some minor synergy).

Here's a summary of how the magic system works:

There are no spell slots or sorcery points. Spam as much as you like, if you can bear the risk.
To cast a spell (or use any ability fueled by spell slots), you must pass a spellcasting check where the DC depends on the spell's level. The spell fizzles if you fail.
When you make a spellcasting check, you can choose to roll one to four dice, adding them together. Rolling more dice increases the chance of successfully casting the spell.
If you roll doubles, triples, or quadruples, you trigger a wild magic surge. Rolling more dice for your spellcasting checks increases the risk of a wild magic surge.
Minor surges (doubles) are a temporary inconvenience, major surges (triples) are permanent and/or directly harmful, and catastrophic surges (quadruples) can end your career.
Using metamagic adds the sorcery point cost to the spellcasting DC, making it harder to cast the spell. Abilities that cost sorcery points to use have their own formula.
Your spellcasting dice increase in size as you level. You can eventually cast 1st and 2nd level spells by rolling a single die, with no risk of a surge. This makes any 1st or 2nd level spell a pseudo-ritual.
Because of how the math works, what I expect is that lower levels spells will be more common because they are easier to spam, while higher level spells will be rarer because of the high chance of failure coupled with the risk of a surge.
Where other casters would get more spell slots, you instead either increase the size of your spellcasting dice or get a wild magic feature.

If this sounds like it's too strong, keep in mind that: (a) The failure rate for your highest level spells is always high. When you learn Fireball, it only has a 50% success rate when rolling three dice, and Wish only has a 31% success rate when rolling all four dice (<5% with only three dice). (b) One catastrophic surge can be enough to end you. Wild magic is all about risk management: is the benefit offered by a spell worth the chance that the spell might fail, wasting your turn? Is it worth the risk of a wild magic surge? Do you roll four dice and risk a major or catastrophic surge, or roll two dice and risk your spell failing?

What would be a good build for this style of magic? Due to the interaction with sorcery points, a sorcerer could be quite strong. Perhaps some kind of sorcadin or sorlock, where I can smite on every strike or quicken EB every round. Since lower level spells are likely to be more commonly cast, I could also do some crazy multiclass that dips into several different casters to get a wider variety of low level spells. Though if I'm trying to playtest the wild magic system, I should probably stick to one class, at least enough to get 9th level spells.

I suppose to fully leverage this wild magic system, I'd be looking for (a) low level spells that spam well (i.e. not concentration, and fairly potent, e.g. Fireball), and (b) metamagic spam (twin and quicken being the obvious ones). Paladin smites, despite not being spells, fit into category (a), but even a 1 level dip into paladin means not getting the wild magic capstone (as I can never attain caster level 20). For (b), something like a quickened empowered EB followed by twinned empowered Mind Sliver might be a good staple, doing good damage (from EB) while debuffing two enemies' saves for my allies. Or, I could use transmuted spell with a dragon sorc to change every spell to my element.

While Wild Magic sorcerer has some synergy (you get Controlled Chaos as part of the subclass, freeing you up to choose a different wild magic feature), Divine Soul allows access to a broader set of spells, including some really nice ones. Alternatively, a Necromancer wizard who can theoretically animate infinite undead (but then you're on the hook to keep them under control, which means risking a lot of surges every day).

I could also aim to exploit some of the wild magic features. Power Fluctuation allows me to roll the check before deciding what level to cast the spell at (so you can cast it at the highest level that would be successful), which works really well with any low level spells or smites. Power Boost lets me replace one or more dice with 4 + a smaller die (e.g. a d8 becomes 1d4 + 4), which is supposed to increase your risk of a surge, but works well when rolling only one die (e.g. risk-free Shield spam becomes a 1 in 4 chance instead of 1 in 8, see also twinned/quickened cantrips). Looking at the math, Power Boost looks like it also helps a lot with casting high level spells, too (Wish goes from 31% to 83% chance). Hmm, perhaps I underestimated this feature; I might need to rewrite it. (That's why it needs playtesting, after all.)

Anything with long duration concentration effects. You can repeatedly cast them with low risk until you pass the check. Preferably spells with a 1hr+ duration but 10 mins would probably be okay.

Greywander
2021-06-18, 07:33 PM
Anything with long duration concentration effects. You can repeatedly cast them with low risk until you pass the check. Preferably spells with a 1hr+ duration but 10 mins would probably be okay.
So things like Mage Armor, Longstrider, Aid, Death Ward, etc. Actually, none of those are concentration, but the logic is the same. Shield of Faith is a 10 minute duration. Enhance Ability. Definitely some good options. If I went with a sorc, then probably Divine Soul to get access to those nice cleric spells like Aid and Death Ward. I think all full caster classes get at least some spells like this.

Frogreaver
2021-06-18, 08:10 PM
So things like Mage Armor, Longstrider, Aid, Death Ward, etc. Actually, none of those are concentration, but the logic is the same. Shield of Faith is a 10 minute duration. Enhance Ability. Definitely some good options. If I went with a sorc, then probably Divine Soul to get access to those nice cleric spells like Aid and Death Ward. I think all full caster classes get at least some spells like this.

Invisibility might be utterly broken this way. 1 hour to find a safe place to recast it and you can keep up invisibility forever.