Attacking while hidden and EB

[Greywander]

IIRC, your first attack gives you away, which probably means you'd only get advantage on that first attack. But while weapon attacks are most likely sequential, I've seen some people saying that EB is simultaneous, that you have to choose the targets for each beam before you make any attack or damage rolls. If so, would this mean the being hidden would give you advantage on all four attacks? Or is EB actually sequential as well?

[EggKookoo]

I don't think the RAW is that EB works any differently than any other "multiattack." Given that you can move in between attacks, and AFAIK in between blasts, I would say they're not simultaneous. I certainly rule them as sequential at my table, which has the benefit of letting the warlock wait to see if her first blasts drops the target before choosing who the second one hits.

[Amnestic]

For however much Crawford's word is worth, he notes attacks are sequential unless otherwise specified https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/614588258404597760

It's in reply to a question about EB, so you'd hope that's also what he's referring to.

As such the first beam gets advantage, the rest don't.

[ProsecutorGodot]

I think then beams are simultaneous as far as targeting goes, regarding the spells specific wording, not necessarily for the purposes of attack rolls and determining their modifiers which follow the rules of Making an Attack.

So despite the fact that the beams are all conjured simultaneously and can target up to 4 different creatures before you've made a roll, one of the beams will strike first and get the benefits of that, while the others will not.

[Millstone85]

For however much Crawford's word is worth, he notes attacks are sequential unless otherwise specified https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/614588258404597760

It's in reply to a question about EB, so you'd hope that's also what he's referring to.

As such the first beam gets advantage, the rest don't.For emphasis, here is what made it into the official(er) compendium:


When casting a spell that affects multiple targets, such as scorching ray or eldritch blast, do I fire one ray or beam, determine the result, and fire again? Or do I have to choose all the targets before making any attack rolls? Even though the duration of each of these spells is instantaneous, you choose the targets and resolve the attacks consecutively, not all at once. If you want, you can declare all your targets before making any attacks, but you would still roll separately for each attack (and damage, if appropriate).

[Rukelnikov]

I don't think the RAW is that EB works any differently than any other "multiattack." Given that you can move in between attacks, and AFAIK in between blasts, I would say they're not simultaneous. I certainly rule them as sequential at my table, which has the benefit of letting the warlock wait to see if her first blasts drops the target before choosing who the second one hits.

I thought so too until not that long ago, but RAW you can only move between weapon attacks.

"Moving Between Attacks
If you take an action that includes more than one weapon attack, you can break up your movement even further by moving between those attacks. For example, a fighter who can make two attacks with the Extra Attack feature and who has a speed of 25 feet could move 10 feet, make an attack, move 15 feet, and then attack again."

Even if you could make multiple weapon attacks and cast an EB with the same action (like if you are a Bladesinger6/Gloomstalker), you wouldn't be able to break your movement during the blasts since the rule specifies "between those attacks", refering the weapon attacks.

[EggKookoo]

I thought so too until not that long ago, but RAW you can only move between weapon attacks.

Well, isn't that interesting? Thanks for pointing that out.

Still, it looks like the RAI is EBs are sequential, so only the first gets advantage.

[Millstone85]

Well, isn't that interesting? Thanks for pointing that out.

Still, it looks like the RAI is EBs are sequential, so only the first gets advantage.Now, all this assumes a scenario where you are invisible because you are hidden, instead of the usual other way around.

For example, a wood elf hiding under a lightly obscuring rain would reveal his position after his first attack. He would also become visible to the enemy, thus losing advantage.

The same wood elf hiding in darkness would reveal his position after his first attack. Yet he would remain invisible, thus keeping advantage.

Or so I think.

[Keravath]

Now, all this assumes a scenario where you are invisible because you are hidden, instead of the usual other way around.

For example, a wood elf hiding under a lightly obscuring rain would reveal his position after his first attack. He would also become visible to the enemy, thus losing advantage.

The same wood elf hiding in darkness would reveal his position after his first attack. Yet he would remain invisible, thus keeping advantage.

Or so I think.

The key in both of these situations is being "unseen". When a creature is hidden it is both unseen and unheard. When it makes an attack it gives its position away. If this also makes it visible then any further attacks do not have advantage because they are no longer unseen.

However, if you are using greater invisibility or perhaps are a gloomstalker ranger who remains unseen while making attacks in darkness against creatures that can't see in darkness or use darkvision - then the ranger remains unseen and so retains advantage on their attack rolls and disadvantage to be hit BUT they still give away their position so although the opponent can not see the attacker they do know the location occupied by the attacker.

[Jerrykhor]

I don't think the EB beams are simultaneous, because spells like Magic Missile actually explicitly states that. So EB is not since it doesn't say it is.

[Greywander]

Seems like the consensus is that EB is sequential because it doesn't say otherwise. Sadly, this means I wouldn't get advantage on all the beams, but at least it means I can shoot them one at a time, see if they hit/kill the target, and then decide where to shoot the next beam.

[EggKookoo]

The key in both of these situations is being "unseen". When a creature is hidden it is both unseen and unheard. When it makes an attack it gives its position away. If this also makes it visible then any further attacks do not have advantage because they are no longer unseen.

However, if you are using greater invisibility or perhaps are a gloomstalker ranger who remains unseen while making attacks in darkness against creatures that can't see in darkness or use darkvision - then the ranger remains unseen and so retains advantage on their attack rolls and disadvantage to be hit BUT they still give away their position so although the opponent can not see the attacker they do know the location occupied by the attacker.

As I understand it, this is correct, and I think it's what Millstone85 was getting at. If you shoot multiple EBs while in complete darkness, and assuming you can somehow see your target(s) who are unable to see you, each shot retains advantage (because you remain unseen) despite your position being revealed (spoiling any attempt to hide). "Unseen" and "hidden" are separate conditions, and the advantage on attacks relies on the first.

[Millstone85]

As I understand it, this is correct, and I think it's what Millstone85 was getting at.Indeed, though I thought I got there already. I just used the word "invisible" instead of "unseen", because the latter doesn't convey so well that you are currently out of sight (i.e. "Nuh-uh, the enemy won't unsee you").

[Segev]

I wonder if an Invocation that made eldritch blast narrow to a single beam that got all the dice in would be worthwhile. Probably not, due to how it would undermine Agonizing Blast, and modifying THAT to stack into just one hit might be too much.

Of course, Warlocks are the quintessential poster-children for darkness/Devil's Sight shenanigans, so they can arrange to get Advantage on all blasts if they really want to anyway.

[cZak]

Would Devils' sight & attacks outside the range of normal darkvision qualify for advantage?

I would think so...

[Asmotherion]

IIRC, your first attack gives you away, which probably means you'd only get advantage on that first attack. But while weapon attacks are most likely sequential, I've seen some people saying that EB is simultaneous, that you have to choose the targets for each beam before you make any attack or damage rolls. If so, would this mean the being hidden would give you advantage on all four attacks? Or is EB actually sequential as well?
I always imagined it as sequential. I mean, it shouldn't matter, as the wording "first attack" means the first attack that gets resolved, reguardless if they are simultaneus, and thus renders the whole point moot, but for referance, I like to imagine Warlocks Charging their EBs like you charge spells in skyrim, one at a time.

[Kane0]

Ask your DM, as long as it's consistent.

Personally I prefer all rays happening at once so you can't sequentially pick your targets like you can with weapon attacks, but you can get the jump on someone with all of them.

[Segev]

Ask your DM, as long as it's consistent.

Personally I prefer all rays happening at once so you can't sequentially pick your targets like you can with weapon attacks, but you can get the jump on someone with all of them.

This is how I've always pictured it and seen it run. Admittedly, I think I'm the only DM I've seen it run under, so that's a fairly heavily-overlapping Venn diagram.