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View Full Version : DM Help A cowardly dragon has his scheme disrupted. What should he do?



PhoenixPhyre
2021-06-20, 09:00 PM
@KorvinStarmast probably should stay out of this thread. As should anyone else for whom the combination of Enigma, kneecapping, and short jokes is familiar.
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Note: The cosmology is heavily altered from the stock D&D cosmology.

I have a BBEG. He's a powerful individual (an ancient dragon + roughly archmage-caliber casting). But he has a crippling flaw--he's a yellow-bellied coward. Specifically, he finds direct confrontation with anyone who could even plausibly physically harm him to be almost unthinkable and prefers running to that. He's also afraid of death (because death can harm him).

He had a plan, involving a ritual that could make the closest thing the world has to a personification of death sit up and beg. It has a couple key requirements:
1. A source of immense amounts of elemental power. This part, so far, is going fine. His flunkies are going to syphon up a dragon graveyard, turning the residual elementally-aligned energies into fuel for the ritual. This power could be re-used for nearly any of the other options, but cannot replace the wyrm essence he needs (requirement #2) [Out of universe, there's a good chance the party, who knows about this, will get there in time to stop them after they finish dealing with their current quest].
2. A source of primordial wyrm essence, from back before dragons got nerfed. Back from when they were direct servants of destruction in all its forms, not aligned with an individual element. He sent some minions after the one "safe" source of that, but those minions got their collective hind ends handed to them by the adventuring party[1], who are on track to cleanse this source and basically put it out of reach of the BBEG. He doesn't have minions capable (at this point) of taking on the party with any probability of success, at least without drawing way too much attention from other sources (such as the dragons who already consider him an outcast and outlaw).

So now what. Options as I see it (but I'm probably missing something here):
1. He could try an alternate route to replace requirement #2, proceeding with his original plan.

1a. He could take on one of the other wyrm-class individuals still remaining. Downside--they're all demigods+ (one's the ruler of an elemental plane, one's a demigod, and one's an actual god). I consider this to be quite out of character--if he could take any one of those, he'd be able to take down Death without the ritual (they're on the same order of magnitude of power).
1b. He could try to "fake it" by playing pokemon with dragon souls of the appropriate color combinations. But that'd mean taking on at minimum 4 other ancient dragons or a crap-ton of lesser ones.
1c. He could cut a deal with the Demon Prince who specializes in twisting souls and hope that that demonic power can get him close enough to count. Of course that means he'd be a demon, which has all sorts of other downsides. Plus, that particular demon prince isn't exactly sane. Or trustworthy.


2. He could give that plan up and seek immortality some other way.

2a. He could try to become a dracolich. Doable. Not all that satisfying, since that comes with significant compromises in this cosmology. But doable and reasonably effective. He could basically do this at nearly any time without any other inputs.
2b. He could try for ascension into the realm of the gods via (basically) starting an effective enough cult. He could certainly find a superstitious tribe of lizardfolk[2] somewhere isolated (and away from pesky adventurers) and get them to worship him so that when he dies, he skips the normal afterlife and instead becomes the "god" of that tribe. This is likely the safest option. Quite a step down, though, and he's got his draconic pride. This also means he'd be tied to that tribe/his worshipers and influenced by their beliefs at a core level.
2c. He could try to become a demon prince/high-ranking demon. Doable. He's got the magical mojo, he'd just need a lot of souls. Of course this means leaving the mortal plane for the Abyss.
2d. He could try for ascension into one of the elemental planes. Doable, but he's not particularly elementally-tied. And it'd mean bowing his head to another ruler, since all of the planes have rulers currently. I mean, he could try to weasel his way in and run a coup, which is in character for him.
2e. He could try for ascension as a devil contractor. Highly unlikely. His personality just doesn't mesh with the Infernal Families.


3. He could give up seeking immortality and just continue manipulating mortals as he had been doing before his age started to scare him. This'd be a reversion to the status quo ante, demoting him from BBEG to just annoying villain.

4. He could go into an all-out apocalyptic war against the party. I rate this as quite out of character, unless he could get someone else to do the fighting and dying. And wouldn't really accomplish any of his goals but revenge. And he's more of a "he wins who outlives all his enemies" kind of guy.

[1] when the DM rolls nothing but 1s and 2s on saving throws for an entire session....
[2] or other unsophisticated types, but there's a whole region of such tribal types, of which many are lizardfolk. And the whole swampy-jungle thing would work for him, as would the dragon ~ lizard resemblance. He does like creature comforts and spends much of his time in humanoid shape, but...

InvisibleBison
2021-06-20, 09:21 PM
I don't think option 3 or 4 are worth considering. You yourself admit that the latter is out of character for this dragon, and the former seems like it might be as well - you've said he's a proud dragon, so I think he's unlikely to abandon his dream at the first setback.

All of the variants in option two have some sort of serious side effect, which presumably he considers to be worse than whatever side effects may come with the method of immortality he's been pursuing up until now. So I think the question he needs to ask is, is the risk of death that comes with pursuing the current plan large enough that one of these alternatives no longer seems like a worse option than his current plan? Based on what you've said, I'd guess that the answer is probably yes.

PhoenixPhyre
2021-06-20, 09:39 PM
I don't think option 3 or 4 are worth considering. You yourself admit that the latter is out of character for this dragon, and the former seems like it might be as well - you've said he's a proud dragon, so I think he's unlikely to abandon his dream at the first setback.

All of the variants in option two have some sort of serious side effect, which presumably he considers to be worse than whatever side effects may come with the method of immortality he's been pursuing up until now. So I think the question he needs to ask is, is the risk of death that comes with pursuing the current plan large enough that one of these alternatives no longer seems like a worse option than his current plan? Based on what you've said, I'd guess that the answer is probably yes.

His current plan, unless he can replace requirement #2 (and protect requirement #1) is a certain failure. His options for the former are slim, while the protecting part isn't so bad (there are lots of other sources that would do, it only requires quantity not particularity). But replacing #2...that's hard. And his toughest minions aren't with him any more (one bailed after getting killed once, the other was...thoroughly killed. Beheaded, body burned to ash, then skull pulverized and then burned. Don't piss off the bard.) He's got a lot of low-level minions (enough to probably take on any of the smaller nations), but not enough to credibly threaten anyone serious. And the dragons locally are on alert for him. Although....there's an option there[1].

Of the other options for immortality (case 2), I'd rate going for the tribal god ascension route as being the safest. Most boring (both for him and for the world), but safest and with the fewest drawbacks. Then would be the dracolich route. Then probably the demon route (although he's been somewhat contemptuous of demons). The elemental route is doable (but also kinda boring). The devil route is just right out. They'd not take him.

He has given up other schemes when called out and personally threatened, but this one's a bit more elaborate and large scale than those were (which were mainly just amusements). So #3 isn't totally off the table, but I agree it's not a serious consideration.

[1] There's going to be a congress of dragons. Basically all the ancient and a good chunk of the adult dragons in the world are meeting in person, like they do every few hundred years. He'd planned to use this as his chance to scoop up the dragon graveyard's energy. If he did that and found enough power to detonate a big enough "bomb" inside the volcano caldera they're meeting in, or convinced some elementals to help him out, he could probably roast enough dragons and siphon off their souls. Of course then he'd have basically all the dragons in the world after him once they figured out who-dunnit. It'd take more than he's got to actually kill all the ancients, and there are enough adults who aren't going[2] to scour the world for him. So he'd need to make sure his fingerprints weren't anywhere near it. Maybe blame it on the giants?

[2] Ancients go every time, adults only go once, to accept the Law of the Flight that keeps dragons from going to war on each other. The BBEG is a renegade who refused to accept that Law. He could probably play the victim by pretending to be reconciled to the Law and showing up, then when the bomb goes off he pretends to have been vaporized, thus pointing the blame somewhere else. Risky.

Tanarii
2021-06-21, 01:17 AM
Sounds like 1b and the nuke the Congress plan is the most likely. Otherwise 2d.

The only problem is that 2d is probably ruled out if 1b + congress nuke flags and he gets fingered for it. So it's not a viable fall-back plan. And it sounds like he'd be the type to want a fall-back plan other than "all-out war" in that situation. In addition for heavily planning for how to cover his tracks in the first place.

VoxRationis
2021-06-21, 02:30 AM
If dragons are mortal and he's looking for ancient ones anyway, one option might be to find ancient dragons that are on their deathbeds and quickly kill them, since their deaths probably wouldn't draw much suspicion. It might be logistically beyond most characters, but someone with archmage-level spellcasting could probably rig up ways of locating and reaching such individuals.

Calthropstu
2021-06-21, 09:49 PM
Trick the insane demon lord into thinking the pcs are a threat to HIM. Slip a holy symbol of said demon lord onto his followers. Write fake notes to convince the pcs are fighting the demon lord. When the pcs try to attack the demon lords cultists to get more info, it becomes the demon lords problem.

paddyfool
2021-06-22, 01:25 AM
1d. The party are "on track to cleanse this source", but how set on this plan are they? What if they started thinking of the source as loot? Could they be bargained with, if not opposed directly? What are their motivations? Could they be redirected by a crisis at home?

2bobheros
2021-06-24, 07:29 AM
I would consider the dragon's solution methodology. Given your description, he's going to start with magic, and only use violence that is risky to him as a last resort. That is, his order of solutions is something like:

1. Do something magical from the archmage-level casting
2. Do something political/talky
3. Do something that involves spending money
...
Last. Something violent and risky.

So, for examples of each:
1. Is there a spell he can cast that he can cast to foil the heroes (e.g. ice assassin)?
2. Can he tell the dragon congress, "The disrespectful hairless monkey PCs are about to destroy a part of our proud dragon heritage! You should do something about it."
3. Can he hire mercenaries to attack the PCs?

TheStranger
2021-06-24, 08:44 AM
You forgot option 0: hastily rewrite all your campaign notes to change the details of what your BBEG needs/wants to do. I’m only half joking - any details that the PCs don’t know about yet are fair game to modify as needed. Obviously you shouldn’t contradict anything that’s already been established, and you don’t want to just negate what the PCs have accomplished, but you’re well within your rights as DM to invent an alternative path to ultimate cosmic power.

Along those lines, what do the PCs know? Do they know who the BBEG is and what his plans are? Do they know his relationship with other dragons? Do they know all the metaphysics that you’ve described? Are there ways that the BBEG could feed them misinformation to keep them off his back and/or get them to do something that helps him? In the extreme case, could he trick the PCs into nuking the dragon congress for him?

Keeping in mind, however, that the BBEG exists to be thwarted and it’s no fun if he plays it too safe. At some point, you presumably want his plans to unravel and lead to a climactic battle. You could play it that he’s getting a little bit desperate and have him go forward with the nuke the congress plan even if it’s not as cautious as he’d normally be. Arrange for the PCs to get there just in time to warn the dragons so they can get out, but not in time to avoid fighting the BBEG’s minions inside an erupting volcano.

False God
2021-06-24, 09:50 AM
Your Starscream likely has several of those alternate plans in motion at any time.

With the exception of a beat-em-up with a god, these are all good plans. The beat-em-up with a god would work, but it would be a fight of trickery and shadowplay, not direct fisticuffs. The same applies to playing 'dragon pokemon'. None of his fights would be direct, and he certainly wouldn't take on 4 of them at the same time.

A tribe of lizardfolk is a good backup and should probably be in play already. Aside from the bennies of becoming a god (even if minor) it also provides him with a loyal group of people he can use.

Becoming a dracolich remains on the table as a very last-ditch plan. It's not something he'd activate in all but the most extreme of situations (all his other plans have been foiled).

Becoming a demon-lord is a good way to escape the mortal realm, though it's likely the Abyss is much more dangerous. However several of his plans may become easier there (become a god and a dracolich).

Bowing his head for a time is absolutely in his character, and may be necessary for several of his other plans. Which circles back to making a deal with a questionable demon-god.

Depending on how things play out, he could easily be a dragon-demon-dracolich-demigod all at the same time. I mean, why have one thing when you can have all the things?

In order it's probably 2b(already in play), 2c&1c, 2e&2d, 1b, 1a, 2a.

PhoenixPhyre
2021-06-24, 09:58 AM
I would consider the dragon's solution methodology. Given your description, he's going to start with magic, and only use violence that is risky to him as a last resort. That is, his order of solutions is something like:

1. Do something magical from the archmage-level casting
2. Do something political/talky
3. Do something that involves spending money
...
Last. Something violent and risky.

So, for examples of each:
1. Is there a spell he can cast that he can cast to foil the heroes (e.g. ice assassin)?
2. Can he tell the dragon congress, "The disrespectful hairless monkey PCs are about to destroy a part of our proud dragon heritage! You should do something about it."
3. Can he hire mercenaries to attack the PCs?

1. This is 5e, so the scope for such things is much smaller. I haven't though of anything he can do directly, magically that would have too much of an influence.
2. The party has way more pull with the dragons currently than he does. He's a pariah. Not quite Kill on Sight, but certainly not welcomed or trusted. They've done big favors for three dragons so far who would be willing to vouch for them and speak up against the BBEG (who the party has warned about).
3. Tried that. He's basically out of goons anywhere in position to do anything useful.


You forgot option 0: hastily rewrite all your campaign notes to change the details of what your BBEG needs/wants to do. I’m only half joking - any details that the PCs don’t know about yet are fair game to modify as needed. Obviously you shouldn’t contradict anything that’s already been established, and you don’t want to just negate what the PCs have accomplished, but you’re well within your rights as DM to invent an alternative path to ultimate cosmic power.

Along those lines, what do the PCs know? Do they know who the BBEG is and what his plans are? Do they know his relationship with other dragons? Do they know all the metaphysics that you’ve described? Are there ways that the BBEG could feed them misinformation to keep them off his back and/or get them to do something that helps him? In the extreme case, could he trick the PCs into nuking the dragon congress for him?

Keeping in mind, however, that the BBEG exists to be thwarted and it’s no fun if he plays it too safe. At some point, you presumably want his plans to unravel and lead to a climactic battle. You could play it that he’s getting a little bit desperate and have him go forward with the nuke the congress plan even if it’s not as cautious as he’d normally be. Arrange for the PCs to get there just in time to warn the dragons so they can get out, but not in time to avoid fighting the BBEG’s minions inside an erupting volcano.

They know enough--they know who he is (and have tangled with his schemes before) and have strong evidence linking his plots to requirements. If he could trick them, it'd have to be through third parties. I think the only way he could manage would be to distract them by mounting a threat against their home base, but that would pose a lot of risk to his depleted resources (since it's in the middle of settled territory and they've already established relationships with the local governments).

My current plan is a hybrid of the demon plan and the nuke the congress plan:

1. He opens negotiations with the crazy demon prince. Not for apotheosis, but for the "tech" needed to manipulate souls on a large scale (so he can acquire/combine the fragments after he nukes the congress), as well as to keep him safe. And for some disposable minions to carry out the plan.
2. He works with some elemental forces to create the initial "seed" of the nuke that he will then (via the minions) enhance with soul-stealing energy.
3. He shows up at the congress during the critical first few days when the dragons are re-pledging to the Law[1], ostensibly to do the same.
4. While everyone's eyes are on him (giving him plausible deniability even if they think he survives), his minions[2] trigger the nuke. His protections keep him safe, but basically cast feign death on him.
5. He then continues with the "kill Death" plan. Even if his "rob the dragon graveyard" plan fails, there should be enough souls for energy as well as essence...as long as he's willing to take on the demonic taint of using them that way.

The party can't really intervene on step 1, but may (through contacts they've made) learn that he's doing something. Step 2 is another "can probably hear about it". Step 3, they've got an in (through the dragons they've befriended) to get invites to the congress. And will probably be invited once the friendly dragons find out the BBEG is going (which would be known some time in advance due to formalities). At that point, they can try to foil the plan (reducing it to just an elemental disturbance that won't cause much damage), etc.

[1] Which is rather ironic, since one of the major tenets of the Law is "No using short-lives against other dragons. Manipulate them all you want, just don't point them at other (Law-abiding) dragons"
[2] The congress is not restricted to dragons only--there are lots of short-lived attendants, especially for the metallics. There's a city on the slopes of the volcano--it's neutral ground for an entire continent. The congress is basically a giant, months-long party hosted by the eldest of living dragons, who lives in the volcano and considers the city and everything around it his hoard. Neutral territory means a chance to hobnob, politic, find mates, trade, etc. Only happens once in a generation (or once in a lifetime for many dragons), so they party hard. The actual workings of the congress happen in one big burst with everyone there, and then a bunch of "regional" meetings where they hash out border disputes, etc. And those parts are horribly boring (and loud, since dragons speaking Draconic are...not quiet), but not really restricted.

muggie2
2021-06-24, 06:53 PM
[1] There's going to be a congress of dragons. Basically all the ancient and a good chunk of the adult dragons in the world are meeting in person, like they do every few hundred years. He'd planned to use this as his chance to scoop up the dragon graveyard's energy. If he did that and found enough power to detonate a big enough "bomb" inside the volcano caldera they're meeting in, or convinced some elementals to help him out, he could probably roast enough dragons and siphon off their souls. Of course then he'd have basically all the dragons in the world after him once they figured out who-dunnit. It'd take more than he's got to actually kill all the ancients, and there are enough adults who aren't going[2] to scour the world for him. So he'd need to make sure his fingerprints weren't anywhere near it. Maybe blame it on the giants?

He has two potential sets of enemies here: the PCs, and whatever remains of the dragons once he does the big badda-boom.
Set them up. Have some kind of ritual circle or somesuch set up, let the PCs "accidentally" hear about it, and have them "disrupt" the ritual.
Next thing you know: big badda-boom. The PCs can be led to believe that the big badda-boom is because they disrupted the ritual.
Leave sufficient clues for the remaining dragons that they believe the same thing, only that it was deliberate.
Now your two sets of enemies are out to get each other. The PCs think they accidentally caused the big badda-boom, the dragons think they deliberately caused the big badda-boom. The dragons will hunt down the PCs, the PCs will have to hunt down the dragons in self defense, and the villain gets their wish unmolested.

Lapak
2021-06-25, 07:47 AM
If dragons are mortal and he's looking for ancient ones anyway, one option might be to find ancient dragons that are on their deathbeds and quickly kill them, since their deaths probably wouldn't draw much suspicion. It might be logistically beyond most characters, but someone with archmage-level spellcasting could probably rig up ways of locating and reaching such individuals.
This actually feels the most in-character to me, if dragons can be vulnerable to subtle assassination in this setting. Actually, if that latter is true they don't have to be on their deathbed to start with - use either his own powers or a bargain with one of the other powers he is considering to develop a subtle poison or disease that leeches their life and then their soul away. One isn't going to be suspicious, but after two or three ancient dragons succumb mysteriously to an ailment that comes out of nowhere everyone linked to dragons (including the PCs, it sounds like) will be on high alert.

That potentially brings them into the conflict when there's only one or two more successful assassinations needed to polish off his plan that way. If they manage to foil this more subtle backup, THEN he might go for the Big Kaboom or something, but this sounds much lower-risk (especially if he expects to get away with all the requisite killings before being detected.)