How do I not Mufasa my players?

[dehro]

My players are level 1
For plot reasons, a Nightmare has it in for them.
They don't know this, and I don't want them to know yet.
They set up camp for the night, after a crypt crawl that left them somewhat worse for wear but alive.
They didn't roll high on their survival so have camped out kind of randomly, in the open prairie/countryside.
I have guards roll a d20 to determine if the night goes without incident.
Only on a 1, does something serious happen.
first guard on duty, rolled a 1.

We ended the session on that roll.

I would like the aforementioned Nightmare to drive a herd of animals into a stampeding frenzy and point them at the camp.

I am however having some difficulty making this a believable threat without mufasa-ing my frail PCs...

what animal would you suggest I use? and do you have any tips on running this mini-scene without having to fudge my dice but still giving them a fair shot at surviving it?.

[DwarfDM]

Just use wildebeasts (yes, just like MUFASA!!!) and don't bother with the hp of the beast. Just roll bludgeoning damage for every round they are being trampeled. (3d6 with dex save for half damage)

Make it a skill challenge to evade the stampede with an idea of their own.
- climb in a flimsy tree
- calm the stampede
- runn over the backs of the stampede

As long as it is even remotely believable make them roll an apropriate skill check. With either disadvantage/normal/advantage depending on the chance of succes.

If they use magic that auto works don't use a skill check (racial teleport or flying speed).

[Grod_The_Giant]

Don't run it like a combat encounter-- have it be more of a trap. Something like:

Round 0: Guards make perception checks to hear the approaching animals. On a success, they have time to wake up the sleeping PCs before the beasts are upon them.
Round 1: Stampede hits. Characters who are awake make Strength saves or are knocked prone, stunned until the beginning of their next turn, and take 1d6 bludgeoning damage. Characters who are still asleep just take damage and are stunned.
Rounds 2-3: Stampede continues. Standing characters continue to make Strength saves to stay on their feet; prone characters make Dexterity saves or take 1d6 bludgeoning damage and be stunned until the beginning of their next turn. Characters who aren't stunned can try to reach a fallen friend and use their action to heal them or haul them back to their feet, but must make Strength checks to move through the mob of beasts.
Round 4: The nightmare poses off in the distance, snickering.

[quindraco]

My players are level 1
For plot reasons, a Nightmare has it in for them.
They don't know this, and I don't want them to know yet.
They set up camp for the night, after a crypt crawl that left them somewhat worse for wear but alive.
They didn't roll high on their survival so have camped out kind of randomly, in the open prairie/countryside.
I have guards roll a d20 to determine if the night goes without incident.
Only on a 1, does something serious happen.
first guard on duty, rolled a 1.

We ended the session on that roll.

I would like the aforementioned Nightmare to drive a herd of animals into a stampeding frenzy and point them at the camp.

I am however having some difficulty making this a believable threat without mufasa-ing my frail PCs...

what animal would you suggest I use? and do you have any tips on running this mini-scene without having to fudge my dice but still giving them a fair shot at surviving it?.

I have no idea what mufasa-ing means, so I'm not sure I'm answering the question you're asking, but a Nightmare is only CR 3, and is made by surgically modifying a pegasus (which is CR 2). So it makes sense to only give it an army of very low CR minions, even before we consider how dangerous any 5E creature is in large numbers.

In that vein, I recommend, along the lines of the familiar spell, picking a CR 0 Beast and changing its type to Fiend for your herd. Obviously thematic choices include goats and hyenas, but most any creature will work, with some being far more dangerous (owls, baboons) than others. If you want a low-challenge fight meant to emphasize creepiness and sticking to the hooved mammal theme, fiendish deer could work quite well for you. Just look through the list of CR 0 Beasts, pick the one you feel is the best fit, and then scale the size of your herd based on how dangerous it is.

[Tanarii]

Meerkats

Even though a stampeding herd probably aren't all attacking them, it's still probably enough to kill them all if you run it as combat instead of just describing the situation.

[nickl_2000]

I have no idea what mufasa-ing means

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw0DXswF5MI

[Notafish]

I'd use goats, but I don't think the herd species is of great importance as long as they aren't large and life-threatening in and of themselves - make the stampede a hazard that risks keeping partymembers prone/ introduces a terrain hazard, and make the encounter more about clearing the camp than surviving the herd.

This could either be a chance for the Nightmare or its minions to observe the party's response to surprises, or a delay tactic (maybe the Mare needs to do bad stuff in a nearby town without interference, or allow allies to pass the party with a chance of not being detected?). Alternately, the herd could just be a prelude to a raid on the camp (goats and sheep as difficult terrain/cover might make combat more difficult for both sides, but goblins looking to steal supplies could well take advantage of their bonus actions to move in and out with less risk).

[Unoriginal]

My players are level 1
For plot reasons, a Nightmare has it in for them.
They don't know this, and I don't want them to know yet.
They set up camp for the night, after a crypt crawl that left them somewhat worse for wear but alive.
They didn't roll high on their survival so have camped out kind of randomly, in the open prairie/countryside.
I have guards roll a d20 to determine if the night goes without incident.
Only on a 1, does something serious happen.
first guard on duty, rolled a 1.

We ended the session on that roll.

I would like the aforementioned Nightmare to drive a herd of animals into a stampeding frenzy and point them at the camp.

I am however having some difficulty making this a believable threat without mufasa-ing my frail PCs...

what animal would you suggest I use? and do you have any tips on running this mini-scene without having to fudge my dice but still giving them a fair shot at surviving it?.

Wild stampedes are loud and obvious, the PCs should wake up and get a chance to do something several rounds (I would say 2 so that it's still urgent) before the beasts are in contact. That way on top of saving themselves they have to worry about saving their equipment, or rather which part they save.

I agree with DwarfDM that it should be a "roll DEX save or take 3d6 damages" situation, but I think that they shouldn't get any damage if they succeed. Also I would give them a chance to instead roll a STR check to get on the back of one of the beasts before getting trampled, letting the ones who do that ride the stampede and go with the flow rather than suffer from it.

[dehro]

Just use wildebeasts (yes, just like MUFASA!!!) and don't bother with the hp of the beast. Just roll bludgeoning damage for every round they are being trampeled. (3d6 with dex save for half damage)

Make it a skill challenge to evade the stampede with an idea of their own.
- climb in a flimsy tree
- calm the stampede
- runn over the backs of the stampede

As long as it is even remotely believable make them roll an apropriate skill check. With either disadvantage/normal/advantage depending on the chance of succes.

If they use magic that auto works don't use a skill check (racial teleport or flying speed).

3d6 per hit... they're first level.. hitpoints raging from 9 to 14... I risk an instakill or 2 at the first beast that hits them, let alone multiples.

[Unoriginal]

3d6 per hit... they're first level.. hitpoints raging from 9 to 14... I risk an instakill or 2 at the first beast that hits them, let alone multiples.

Well it is a stampede. It has to be dangerous to be caught in or else what's the point?

Also as said above it shouldn't be that hard to avoid, because large numbers of wild animals running as fast as they can is fairly noticeable from a distance.

Or since they managed their first adventure successfully and they're now taking a rest, you could level up the PCs to lvl 2 at the start of the session, before the stampede happens.

[nickl_2000]

Well it is a stampede. It has to be dangerous to be caught in or else what's the point?

Also as said above it shouldn't be that hard to avoid, because large numbers of wild animals running as fast as they can is fairly noticeable from a distance.

Or since they managed their first adventure successfully and they're now taking a rest, you could level up the PCs to lvl 2 at the start of the session, before the stampede happens.

There is danger of death and there is instadeath. The danger in a stampede isn't the initial contact, it's when you fall and you get hit over and over again by creatures. Having a stampede last for a full minute where there is a potential 1d8 damage with half on save it still a deadly level trap without worrying about insta-killing a level 1 character.

[quindraco]

If you want stampede effects on your herd, 5E does have mechanics that poorly simulate it that you can easily modify to better simulate it. The most critical piece is that there are no mechanics for accidentally stepping on someone - the real danger in the real world is staying prone and getting stepped on, but in 5E, none of the stampeding creatures can step on you - and if they could, it would hurt their action economy, so they won't choose to, since they want to Dash every turn.

So what I'm going to do here is take the Charge ability from goats (CR 0) and modify it to make the stampede genuinely threatening in a stampede-like manner. Many creatures have Charge, although its text varies in both extra damage and DC. The goats will be marginally more dangerous, but not in a way that will change their CR.

Charge (replaces Charge in the goat statblock).

If the goat moves at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then hits it with a ram attack on the same turn, the target takes an extra 2 (1d4) bludgeoning damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 10 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone and pushed 5 feet back. If the target does not meet a DC 5 saving throw, it is instead knocked prone and pushed 10 feet back.

Improved Ram (add to statblock).

If the goat takes the Dash action, it can Ram as a bonus action.

Trample (add to statblock).

Once per turn, if the goat takes the Dash action and then uses Improved Ram on a target, if the target is prone and the same size or smaller than the goat, the goat can move through the target's space without treating it as difficult terrain, although it cannot stop there.

Improved Sure-Footed (add to statblock).

Goats are proficient in Athletics and Acrobatics checks, and roll with advantage when jumping or resisting effects that would knock them prone.

NOTE: WOTC generally half-asses beast statblocks (cats are a particularly egregious example). I generally recommend being very generous with granting all beasts proficiency in at least one of athletics and acrobatics, and typically both - it won't change their CR, but the beast will often behave far more immersively in practice.

[dehro]

If you want stampede effects on your herd, 5E does have mechanics that poorly simulate it that you can easily modify to better simulate it. The most critical piece is that there are no mechanics for accidentally stepping on someone - the real danger in the real world is staying prone and getting stepped on, but in 5E, none of the stampeding creatures can step on you - and if they could, it would hurt their action economy, so they won't choose to, since they want to Dash every turn.

So what I'm going to do here is take the Charge ability from goats (CR 0) and modify it to make the stampede genuinely threatening in a stampede-like manner. Many creatures have Charge, although its text varies in both extra damage and DC. The goats will be marginally more dangerous, but not in a way that will change their CR.

Charge (replaces Charge in the goat statblock).

If the goat moves at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then hits it with a ram attack on the same turn, the target takes an extra 2 (1d4) bludgeoning damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 10 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone and pushed 5 feet back. If the target does not meet a DC 5 saving throw, it is instead knocked prone and pushed 10 feet back.

Improved Ram (add to statblock).

If the goat takes the Dash action, it can Ram as a bonus action.

Trample (add to statblock).

Once per turn, if the goat takes the Dash action and then uses Improved Ram on a target, if the target is prone and the same size or smaller than the goat, the goat can move through the target's space without treating it as difficult terrain, although it cannot stop there.

Improved Sure-Footed (add to statblock).

Goats are proficient in Athletics and Acrobatics checks, and roll with advantage when jumping or resisting effects that would knock them prone.

NOTE: WOTC generally half-asses beast statblocks (cats are a particularly egregious example). I generally recommend being very generous with granting all beasts proficiency in at least one of athletics and acrobatics, and typically both - it won't change their CR, but the beast will often behave far more immersively in practice.
I like this..
on principle, the animals will just want to run through/away...and will actively try not to step on stuff that might make them fall or slow them down..
let's hope the guard rolls above a 3 on her perception check, and gives everybody time to wake up and move/figure out what to do... :smallbiggrin:

[Grod_The_Giant]

3d6 per hit... they're first level.. hitpoints raging from 9 to 14... I risk an instakill or 2 at the first beast that hits them, let alone multiples.
Remember, 5e's death rules are pretty generous. Unless you take overflow damage equal to your maximum hit points, there's no difference between taking 1 damage and 20 damage when at 1 hp.

[KorvinStarmast]

My players are level 1
Grod, I like how you scaled this to level.

Don't run it like a combat encounter-- have it be more of a trap. Something like:

Round 0: Guards make perception checks to hear the approaching animals. On a success, they have time to wake up the sleeping PCs before the beasts are upon them.
Round 1: Stampede hits. Characters who are awake make Strength saves or are knocked prone, stunned until the beginning of their next turn, and take 1d6 bludgeoning damage. Characters who are still asleep just take damage and are stunned.
Rounds 2-3: Stampede continues. Standing characters continue to make Strength saves to stay on their feet; prone characters make Dexterity saves or take 1d6 bludgeoning damage and be stunned until the beginning of their next turn. Characters who aren't stunned can try to reach a fallen friend and use their action to heal them or haul them back to their feet, but must make Strength checks to move through the mob of beasts.
Round 4: The nightmare poses off in the distance, snickering.
Chances to avoid the second and third d6,
as opposed to
More 'open world, encounters not necessarily CR / level appropriate ..

One roll, 3d6, if failed save. The potential for the same amount of damage and death is there, but there are more chances to get out of it in Grod's model.

At level 1, the average HP is between 6 (Wiz with 0 Con and 15 (barb with 16 Con). Let's call it 11. 3d6 averages 10.5. They have already had a hard day, may not be at full HP yet since they are trying to rest.

Chance to kill a PC due to too much damage is very present.
Example: Warlock is 11 HP full up, but as this is end of adventure day has 6 HP. Roll a 17 and he's dead.
Example: Wizard has 7 HP full up, is at 4 due to end of resource day. 11 HP kills due to massive damage.

One roll.

Three chances not to fail is nice.

I also really like "Nightmare poses, snickering" a lot. :smallbiggrin:

[dehro]

Don't run it like a combat encounter-- have it be more of a trap. Something like:

Round 0: Guards make perception checks to hear the approaching animals. On a success, they have time to wake up the sleeping PCs before the beasts are upon them.
Round 1: Stampede hits. Characters who are awake make Strength saves or are knocked prone, stunned until the beginning of their next turn, and take 1d6 bludgeoning damage. Characters who are still asleep just take damage and are stunned.
Rounds 2-3: Stampede continues. Standing characters continue to make Strength saves to stay on their feet; prone characters make Dexterity saves or take 1d6 bludgeoning damage and be stunned until the beginning of their next turn. Characters who aren't stunned can try to reach a fallen friend and use their action to heal them or haul them back to their feet, but must make Strength checks to move through the mob of beasts.
Round 4: The nightmare poses off in the distance, snickering.


I somehow managed to miss this entirely... and yes, this too is interesting...

[Mastikator]

3d6 per hit... they're first level.. hitpoints raging from 9 to 14... I risk an instakill or 2 at the first beast that hits them, let alone multiples.

Increase the tension by dragging it out over multiple rounds. 1d6 per damage every round until they can get out. Dex save for half (DC 10 is fine), and 2 successful athletics or acrobatics checks vs 10 to make it out of the stampede.

A successful nature or perception check (also 10?) gives everyone advantage on the first round.

Someone COULD still die, but it's far less likely.

[Chugger]

What is the purpose of the stampede?

In some dnd modules, a stampede or similar mechanic seems to exist to try to wear down the characters, to make them spend resources. They take damage and so have to drink healing potions or burn slots to heal - or burn the one short rest they have for the adventuring day maybe. But if they are good and avoid most damage, they aren't as worn down.

In this case, just have the stampede hit them unrealistically fast (yes, you can hear a stampeded coming from far away - IRL you'd have time to prepare for it) - have them roll acrobatics or dex STs - let them be creative. "Misty Step on top of the dead tree" = no damage, for example. "I cast a minor illusion of a boulder and hide in it" = advantage on their roll - stampeding animals to try to avoid hurting themselves and can shift course a bit to do so.

Or is this encounter a trap meant to actually challenge them. In that case, you'll need to plan it out in more detail - build more terrain perhaps - and have several ways for creative play to = less damage.

[EggKookoo]

I agree with the idea of treating it more or less like a multi-round AoE.

Each PC takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage, halved with a successful DC 12 Dex save. Rogues love this.

Each PC can then use its action to make a (DC 12? 15?) Athletics or Acrobatics check to move out of the stampede. You need three successes overall to get out completely, and they don't need to be sequential.

A PC that's still caught in the stampede can forego its check to use the Help action to give another PC advantage on either their Dex save or check.

For maybe more complexity, a PC that has made it all the way out of the stampede can try to reach in and help another PC out, but that other PC must have already made two successes on its check (implying the PC being helped is close to the edge).

A PC that goes to 0 HP is incapacitated and doing death saves. Another PC can try to get the downed PC out but now has disadvantage on its check (and has to start over if going back in).

[da newt]

How many 'goats' or whatever do you envision in this stampede? How long do you want this to last? How deadly would you like it? What is the point / objective? Are you looking for realistic or game appropriate?

Maybe make it a band of baboons and they ransack the camp, destroying stuff and stealing things / food ...

I'd keep the damage potential light - these are just lvl 1 PCs who have had a rough day already. It will be easy to kill one accidentally (if one gets knocked unconscious, they auto fail DEX/ST saves and every hit is 2 failed death saves).

[KorvinStarmast]

How many 'goats' or whatever do you envision in this stampede? How long do you want this to last? How deadly would you like it? What is the point / objective? Are you looking for realistic or game appropriate?

Maybe make it a band of baboons and they ransack the camp, destroying stuff and stealing things / food ...

I'd keep the damage potential light - these are just lvl 1 PCs who have had a rough day already. It will be easy to kill one accidentally (if one gets knocked unconscious, they auto fail DEX/ST saves and every hit is 2 failed death saves).

For those interested, I have a custom made stampede (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/q/123007/22566)spell that my players may encounter next time we play.

[Angelalex242]

For effect, make sure a lion cub is trying to roar on the other side of the PCs to see if anyone gets the reference.

They get a bonus of some kind if they manage to save the cub.