View Full Version : What kind of Breath Weapon would a Half-Black, Half-Red Dragon have?
BlueWitch
2021-06-24, 09:58 PM
Red Dragon's breathe Fire
Black Dragon's breathe Acid
So what would the combination breath out? Scorching Hot Acid? Or Fiery Acid?
Is there an official term for such a thing?
Just asking for fun. Either way I'm making the damage 50% Fire and 50% Acid.
sreservoir
2021-06-24, 10:33 PM
It has two breath weapons.
When in doubt, always go fire. It's traditional and looks cool.
Particle_Man
2021-06-24, 11:29 PM
How about lava?
Flip a coin. One side will be the dragon race and the the other side will be the half dragon template.
Or you could say it is a breeding program to create mini Tiamats. Let the breath do half one damage type and shape and half the other. Similar to the dragonfire adept's Fivefold Breath of Tiamat.
Rebel7284
2021-06-25, 12:30 AM
As other folks have alluded to, there is the half-dragon template in the core rules. It can be applied to dragons to get stuff like a red dragon with the half black dragon template or a black dragon with a half red dragon template. Notably, the hybrid is likely to be stronger than the parent at the same age category since the template boosts stats. You can technically stack the template multiple times for multiple grandparents of different types/etc.
Tzardok
2021-06-25, 02:59 AM
Afroakuma made a custom template for hybridizing two dragon races. It can be found here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?610658-Draconic-Hybrids-(3-5)), if you are interested.
BlueWitch
2021-06-25, 06:52 AM
Afroakuma made a custom template for hybridizing two dragon races. It can be found here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?610658-Draconic-Hybrids-(3-5)), if you are interested.
Thank you for this!
And everyone, thank you for your wonderful answers!
Afroakuma made a custom template for hybridizing two dragon races. It can be found here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?610658-Draconic-Hybrids-(3-5)), if you are interested.
Going by these guidelines, seems to me our hybrid would breath napalm... a sticky liquid on fire !
Tzardok
2021-06-25, 07:44 AM
Going by these guidelines, seems to me our hybrid would breath napalm... a sticky liquid on fire !
Why not? Sounds like !!fun!!. Another possibility: The example red-black hybrid, the crimson dragon, spits solidified blocks of magma that are filled with acid and can be detonated later at will.
Bayar
2021-06-25, 11:00 AM
Acidic Fire.
BlueWitch
2021-06-25, 09:12 PM
If anyone's curious, the idea my DM and I decided to go with was, in fact, the "Napalm Breath" idea! XD
It deals 50% Fire and 50% Acid Damage. It also burns an additional 1d4 rounds after for half the initial damage.
aglondier
2021-06-27, 01:43 AM
You should roll on the potion miscibility table and weaponise the result...
Nifft
2021-06-28, 03:02 PM
Red + Black = Brick-color, therefore the breath damage is bricks.
The dragon can exhale a house.
Ruethgar
2021-07-08, 05:18 PM
Lava seems a poor choice. Pyroclastic dragons are a thing and even they don’t get lava breath being literal volcano dragons.
As to what it would look like, light hand sanitizer on fire and watch it drip, then make it green instead of blue, that’s what I imagine.
Fouredged Sword
2021-07-09, 12:43 PM
I am of the "ether or" group. Many dragons have multiple breath weapons. A half black / half red dragon would be able to breath a line of acid OR a cone of fire.
You would pick a color of dragon that is the dominant, and apply the half dragon template to the base dragon. The secondary breath weapon is fixed at 6d8 damage.
Khatoblepas
2021-07-09, 09:29 PM
Red + Black = Brick-color, therefore the breath damage is bricks.
The dragon can exhale a house.
Ah, a better way to deal City damage.
Bohandas
2021-07-11, 12:49 AM
If you apply the rules in an overly prosaic and literal fashion it would have the breath weapon of one but be able to use the breath weapon of the other once per day
EDIT:
In seriousness though, how about a proton beam of some sort, as this is a lewis acid as well as chemically a form of hydrogen. (or possibly it might have to be a mix of protons and hydrogen anions in order to get them to burn? I think? I'm too tired to pursue this line of inquiry any further at this time) In any case it would do a mix of acid and fire damage
Smegskull
2021-07-11, 02:35 AM
Done this, with PrCs and templates you can get like 5 breath weapons.
If I remember my RAW it should be able to use either breath weapon though the cooldown when you make a breath attack applies to both.
Bohandas
2021-07-11, 03:16 AM
Done this, with PrCs and templates you can get like 5 breath weapons.
If I remember my RAW it should be able to use either breath weapon though the cooldown when you make a breath attack applies to both.
by RAW the one from the half-dragon template is only once per day though
Khatoblepas
2021-07-11, 03:23 AM
by RAW the one from the half-dragon template is only once per day though
Just by taking the Dragon BreathRoTD feat, you can make all of those half dragon breaths into full dragon breaths! I don't think you need to take it more than once, either, you just take this feat and any per day breaths you have are included.
Eldan
2021-07-11, 07:39 AM
Ah, a better way to deal City damage.
So that's what happened to the Wicked Witch. City damage, the one thing spellcasters don't account for.
Nifft
2021-07-11, 01:25 PM
Ah, a better way to deal City damage.
You used blue, but honestly that's a great answer.
So that's what happened to the Wicked Witch. City damage, the one thing spellcasters don't account for.
What if she moved all the way out the countryside of a different world specifically to avoid City damage?
aglondier
2021-07-12, 03:52 AM
On further consideration, the hybrid offspring of a black and a red should have...no breath weapon!!
Given how greedy and power hungry chromatic dragons are, if crossbreeding would give their offspring both breath weapons, or even some hybrid mix of breath weapon, there would no longer be red, blue, black, green and white dragons...just some kinda murky brown colour with either every breath weapon, or some horrific cosmic breath weapon...
Wildstag
2021-07-12, 12:29 PM
As other folks have alluded to, there is the half-dragon template in the core rules. It can be applied to dragons to get stuff like a red dragon with the half black dragon template or a black dragon with a half red dragon template. Notably, the hybrid is likely to be stronger than the parent at the same age category since the template boosts stats. You can technically stack the template multiple times for multiple grandparents of different types/etc.
This is true only if you ignore or exclude Races of the Dragon. Notably, on page 72 it states such pairings can't reproduce the template.
NONHUMANOID HALF-DRAGONS
Since the half-dragon template can apply to any living creature type other than dragons, a nearly limitless variety of possible half-dragons exist.
But in the realm of fun, acid and fire? I'd say it has both, but the mother's kind would be usable as often as any other dragon, and the applied template half would be usable only once per day (without the Dragon Breath feat).
Psyren
2021-07-12, 12:38 PM
It has two breath weapons.
This is the RAW answer, but it sounds like your table landed on something you find more fun.
Calthropstu
2021-07-14, 11:49 AM
This is true only if you ignore or exclude Races of the Dragon. Notably, on page 72 it states such pairings can't reproduce the template.
But in the realm of fun, acid and fire? I'd say it has both, but the mother's kind would be usable as often as any other dragon, and the applied template half would be usable only once per day (without the Dragon Breath feat).
Applying the half dragon template to the tarrasque seems interesting.
JoeNapalm
2021-07-14, 12:34 PM
Going by these guidelines, seems to me our hybrid would breath napalm... a sticky liquid on fire !
Yes.
And I would know.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Raven777
2021-07-14, 02:43 PM
The only true answer is to go full World of Warcraft and have it breath some kind of Shadowflame (https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow_Flame), just like good ol' Nefarian.
Bonus points if your dragon is really overseeing a scheme to breed hybrid dragons (https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Chromatic_dragonflight) like some kind of colored chocobos.
Ruethgar
2021-07-14, 10:44 PM
This is true only if you ignore or exclude Races of the Dragon. Notably, on page 72 it states such pairings can't reproduce the template.
I’m not seeing where is says this on that page. I see the Draconic exclusion of Dragons a few pages later, but not half dragons.
Anyway, template classes never have the pre-requisites of their templates. So a Half-Dragon Red Hatchling with the RotD Draconic template class and the web Half Dragon class should work. However the template can’t be easily bought off like the two classes.
hamishspence
2021-07-15, 04:29 AM
I’m not seeing where is says this on that page. I see the Draconic exclusion of Dragons a few pages later, but not half dragons.
NONHUMANOID HALF-DRAGONS
Since the half-dragon template can apply to any living creature type other than dragons, a nearly limitless variety of possible half-dragons exist.
This contradicts the MM though:
"Half-dragon" is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
so a case could be made that, by "primary source rules" the MM overrides that Races of the Dragon text.
While I can see the RAW shenanigans around Draconic Half-Dragons Doing Draconic Things, it just gave me an idea : The Onion Dragon.
=> Once this dragon is vanquished, it sheds its scales to reveal new shiny scales - with a different color. Now you have to fight again a slightly smaller Dragon...
Raishoiken
2021-07-16, 02:02 PM
While I can see the RAW shenanigans around Draconic Half-Dragons Doing Draconic Things, it just gave me an idea : The Onion Dragon.
=> Once this dragon is vanquished, it sheds its scales to reveal new shiny scales - with a different color. Now you have to fight again a slightly smaller Dragon...
Yooo a new prismatic dragon. Each layer has a new breath weapon that corresponds to the color
Initiate of the sevenfold scale
RNightstalker
2021-07-17, 04:04 PM
Going by these guidelines, seems to me our hybrid would breath napalm... a sticky liquid on fire !
The thread ended after this comment as far as I'm concerned! lol best answer I've seen in the playground in a while! I'm going to have to use this in a future game!
Wildstag
2021-07-19, 05:17 PM
This contradicts the MM though... so a case could be made that, by "primary source rules" the MM overrides that Races of the Dragon text.
I think the intent of the change was so that they would prevent situations like the OP's or a "Half-Green Dragon Green Dragon".
Besides, RotD is a later publication, and it is my understanding that newer publications trump older publications. This is accepted for Spell Compendium spells that change earlier spells significantly (such as Mantle of the Icy Soul, which was changed significantly between Frostburn and SC).
Assuming this is the case, RotD would be the rule that overrides the MM. And it's not so much a contradiction as it is a retcon.
Thurbane
2021-07-20, 12:37 AM
Not sure if this has been linked yet, but may be of interest: Elite Opponents - Creatures That Cannot Be II (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20070401a)
Half-Dragon Dragon
Technically, you can apply the half-dragon template to a dragon if all you use is the Monster Manual. However, since it doesn't make sense to do so, Races of the Dragon clarifies that the template doesn't apply to a dragon. But the errata for the Monster Manual does not include this correction, so this creature is kind of "on the cusp" of illegality. But some strangeness is introduced when you apply the half-dragon template to a dragon, so it makes sense that it is not allowed.
That article, in turn, links to this: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20070216a
Q: Dear Sage,
Is it possible for two dragons of different colors to breed? If so, which parent does the hatchling take after?
--Josh
A: According to a strict reading of the half-dragon template, it can be applied to creatures of the dragon type (including true dragons). Thus, it appears within the framework of the rules to, for instance, create a half-white dragon green dragon. It’d be entirely up to the DM to determine which of the parents is the base creature and which is the half-dragon template.
That said, it doesn’t really seem in the spirit of the template—it’s designed to make an existing creature more draconic, and the Sage can’t see how a creature that’s already a dragon can become “more draconic.” Thus, such creatures should be extraordinarily rare at most.
hamishspence
2021-07-20, 12:46 AM
Not sure if this has been linked yet, but may be of interest: Elite Opponents - Creatures That Cannot Be II (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20070401a)
That article, in turn, links to this: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20070216aThe "It's designed to make a creature more draconic, and dragons are already as draconic as it gets" argument never really made sense to me.
Especially in a world where it's "canon" that dragons of different breeds, hybridise.
I'd be OK with an argument that "half-dragon" cannot be applied to something that is already a dragon of the same breed (no half-green dragon green dragons) but not something that bans, for example, half-green dragon red dragons, or half-green dragon dragon turtles.
RotD is a later publication, and it is my understanding that newer publications trump older publications. This is accepted for Spell Compendium spells that change earlier spells significantly (such as Mantle of the Icy Soul, which was changed significantly between Frostburn and SC).
Assuming this is the case, RotD would be the rule that overrides the MM. And it's not so much a contradiction as it is a retcon.
New publications "trump" old supplements - but they can't "trump" the core books.
Thurbane
2021-07-20, 12:52 AM
New publications "trump" old supplements - but they can't "trump" the core books.
Out of curiosity, was Feather Fall ever officially errata'd to an immediate action, rather than a free action?
hamishspence
2021-07-20, 01:01 AM
Not that I know of. Feather Fall has specific text in it that says "You can cast this spell when it isn't your turn" - so it doesn't need to be an immediate action.
It's possible that really late "Collectors Edition" versions of the PHB changed it - I haven't got one of those.
Rules Compendium, however (page 125) does specifically change it to "Casting Time : Immediate Action" so it depends on if you consider Rules Compendium to qualify as "official errata" or not.
Melayl
2021-07-20, 12:42 PM
To me, the obvious answer is acid that is flammable, like lamp oil, but not actually on fire...
Thurbane
2021-07-20, 04:51 PM
Not that I know of. Feather Fall has specific text in it that says "You can cast this spell when it isn't your turn" - so it doesn't need to be an immediate action.
It's possible that really late "Collectors Edition" versions of the PHB changed it - I haven't got one of those.
Rules Compendium, however (page 125) does specifically change it to "Casting Time : Immediate Action" so it depends on if you consider Rules Compendium to qualify as "official errata" or not.
The only issue I have is if you leave it at free, you can potentially cast as many as you have memorized or have slots for in one round. Not that it is a huge problem with the spell itself, but if you manage to get some kind of rider effect or stacking bonus that relies on how many levels of spells you just cast, leaves it open for all kinds of craziness.
The thing I don't like about the Primary Source rule is that it basically invalidates anything from later books that isn't completely new material. Sometimes the later books had valid changes to implement; and honestly, why did the devs even bother writing it if it was invalid as soon as the ink dried?
FWIW, there is the official Half-Dragon Dragon (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20070401a) (which was published later than Races of the Dragon, and thus - set a precedent):
You were ninja'd by over 12 hours. :smalltongue:
smasher0404
2021-07-23, 12:12 AM
On further consideration, the hybrid offspring of a black and a red should have...no breath weapon!!
Given how greedy and power hungry chromatic dragons are, if crossbreeding would give their offspring both breath weapons, or even some hybrid mix of breath weapon, there would no longer be red, blue, black, green and white dragons...just some kinda murky brown colour with either every breath weapon, or some horrific cosmic breath weapon...
Why would greedy power-hungry dragons want their kids to be stronger than they are? That leaves them open to being betrayed and overthrown.
--------
More on Topic:
By RAW, I think the answer has already been covered, a Half-Dragon Dragon would have the breath weapon of one of its parents, and can use the breath weapon of the other 1/day. If you want to specifically mix these two breath weapons into one breath weapon, you could make it an acidic gas breath weapon (due to the extreme heat of the Red Dragon's breath weapon being applied to the Black Dragon's acid breath upon release). That could line up with a Green Dragon's breath weapon (which is called out as corrosive gas), OR if you want to be kind of spicy: make it a slightly reflavored cone-shaped Acid Fog spell that lasts for some period of time (I'd probably rule it as 1d4 rounds to line up with other breath effects).
Arcane_Secrets
2021-07-24, 10:56 PM
Red Dragon's breathe Fire
Black Dragon's breathe Acid
So what would the combination breath out? Scorching Hot Acid? Or Fiery Acid?
Is there an official term for such a thing?
Just asking for fun. Either way I'm making the damage 50% Fire and 50% Acid.
Chlorine trifluoride!
No, seriously, I know this has already been answered, but I'm just playing around with the idea of a breath weapon that's corrosive at first and then lights whatever gets caught in it on fire if it can't be removed or somehow neutralized in time. The feats/spell combos with that Draconomicon style could be really interesting.
Thurbane
2021-07-25, 12:21 AM
Maybe too much crossbreeding is where Brown Dragons come from? :smallbiggrin:
ShurikVch
2021-07-25, 02:52 PM
Maybe it's kinda late, but concentrated sulfuric acid chars organic compounds, and heats from addition of water - and not just "liquid water", but even water bound in compounds
When sulfur trioxide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_trioxide) reacts with water, it produces sulfuric acid - but also so much heat resulting acid would boil and evaporate into acidic fog
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