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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Homebrew spell Stampede: request a review/critique/suggested improvements



KorvinStarmast
2021-06-25, 11:03 AM
Is this stampede spell (a proposed custom spell for Druids and Rangers in my campaign) as strong as, or weaker than, the 5th level spell cloudkill?
I used a similar base damage, the duration is reduced from 10 minutes to 1 minute, and the "persistent" effect of cloudkill's poison is replaced by a chance to be trampled if knocked prone. I reduced the directional control somewhat.


Stampede
Spell level 5 (conjuration)
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: V, S Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

You create a 40' wide, 20'deep line of spiritual herd animals1 (buffalo, horses, giraffes, zebras, etc) at a point you choose within range. The animals stampede in the direction that you choose and will continue in that direction until either the spell ends or you cease concentration on it. The stampede moves at a speed of 40'.
Effects on Creatures
Any creature in the spell’s area of effect on the caster's turn takes 5d8 bludgeoning damage on a failed Dexterity saving throw, and is knocked prone. On a successful save, the creature takes half damage and is not knocked prone. Any creature knocked prone takes an additional 2d4+3 bludgeoning2 damage if the saving throw result was 11 or lower3.
Effects on Objects
Objects in the path of the stampede take 5d8 bludgeoning damage. Objects not destroyed by the bludgeoning damage cause the stampede to flow around the object. Any creature caught in the area of that flow around an object takes half damage on a failed Dexterity saving throw, and one quarter damage on a successful one.
Effects of Terrain on the Spell
The herd will plunge through rivers, go over cliffs, or try to flow around a cliff base's face (likewise with castle walls that are not knocked down, gigantic rock outcroppings, etc). Difficult terrain will not reduce the speed of the stampede.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 6th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 5th.

In trying to get the flavor right, I am not sure if the relative power level of the spell is retained at 5th level. Is this comparably powered to cloudkill at 5th level?

Notes:


1 These herd animals are similar to what is summoned by spirit guardians, rather than creatures that are summoned by the conjure animals (Druid, level 3). There isn't a stat block for a herd in the way that there is for a swarm.

2 This is based on MM/PHB riding horse hoof damage.

3 The fiddly bit was intended to avoid making two saving throws; one roll covers it all. Some spells do have multiple save chances, so an alternative would be that the second (Constitution or Dexterity) to avoid trample damage. I modeled this after the Sprite's "if the saving throw result is X or lower, it puts them them to sleep" ability.

MrStabby
2021-06-25, 12:39 PM
Well without a doubt this is a lot more powerful than cloudkill. That needn't be a bad thing though.

So same damage (5d8) but with the chance of extra damage. And this is magical bludgeoning damage which is better (by a long way) than poison. And this offers a dex save which is usually weaker than con saves (campaign dependant obviously).

One big thing is that this is repeated save in an area of effect where the way to avoid it is to move out of the area... but this knocks you prone and makes it harder to escape. Throwing this down in a corridor or room with limited exits could be very nasty.

It isn't like cloudkill where the cloud will flow away or dissipate by itself.

My preference would be to just drop the extra damage on the 11 or lower save. It offers complexity with out adding too much to the spell and then just accept it is more powerful than cloudkill. Cloudkill is hardly wall of force or other powerful level 5 spell.

KorvinStarmast
2021-06-25, 01:16 PM
Well without a doubt this is a lot more powerful than cloudkill. That needn't be a bad thing though.

So same damage (5d8) but with the chance of extra damage. And this is magical bludgeoning damage which is better (by a long way) than poison. And this offers a dex save which is usually weaker than con saves (campaign dependant obviously).

One big thing is that this is repeated save in an area of effect where the way to avoid it is to move out of the area... but this knocks you prone and makes it harder to escape. Throwing this down in a corridor or room with limited exits could be very nasty.

It isn't like cloudkill where the cloud will flow away or dissipate by itself.

My preference would be to just drop the extra damage on the 11 or lower save. It offers complexity with out adding too much to the spell and then just accept it is more powerful than cloudkill. Cloudkill is hardly wall of force or other powerful level 5 spell.
1. Thanks for your insights. :smallsmile:
2. The cloudkill spell was originally built, IIRC, as an outdoors 'mustard gas' emulation to take out large formations of enemy troops. (It comes from Chainmail, even, page 32 of 3rd edition. Cloudkill: A gaseous cloud of poisonous vapors which kill all men, orcs, dwarves, and the like when it contacts them. Cloud size is 3" deep by 6" wide by 3" high. It stays along the ground, moving away from the magic-user who casts it at the rate of 6" per turn. It will drift at random if he is not concentrating on it. (Complexity 5)).
It's an odd fit for 5e given how little support there is for large scale combat. When your 'number appearing' is 30-300 (like in OD&D and AD&D) having cloudkill handy if you can lure a large group of orcs/bandits/berserkers, dervishes, etc into a zone was it's best use. It's also a good 'area denial spell' if you are fleeing a huge force and low on spells/arrows/allies.
3. I admit that this spell is somewhat informed by two things: (a) the song 'Ghostriders in the Sky' and 9b) a Paladin / Crusader ability in the CRPG Diablo 3 that has a bunch of spiritual horses stampede across the screen and take out crowds of mooks.
4. I also like the idea of a Druid being able to conjure up a herd of stampeding herd animals, which is mildly reminiscent of The Wild Hunt. What I want to do is get the power level about right.

MrStabby
2021-06-25, 01:41 PM
So these things all make me happy for it to be a strong spell.

Druids are good at both damage over time and area denial spells and with things like storm of vengeance they have on theme big areas of effect.

If it were a version of a "druid fireball" I would suggest it should be relatively weak. For a spell that is a good match to druid strengths and doesn't massively expand their capabilities I would say its OK being stronger than cloud kill.

KorvinStarmast
2021-06-25, 03:07 PM
So these things all make me happy for it to be a strong spell.

Druids are good at both damage over time and area denial spells and with things like storm of vengeance they have on theme big areas of effect.

If it were a version of a "druid fireball" I would suggest it should be relatively weak. For a spell that is a good match to druid strengths and doesn't massively expand their capabilities I would say its OK being stronger than cloud kill. Concur with all points, thank you.

Coins
2021-06-27, 10:35 AM
A few other things to consider are:

Can the "spirit animals" move through solid objects? walls of force? prismatic walls? etc...
I don't think this needs to be concentration as a stampede gives the impression that the "spirit animals" are running. I think it is reasonable to think that a rhino, zebra, or some other herd animal could have a base speed of 60ft. and a "dash" speed of 120ft. You could consider making it a "line" perhaps. (rough guess) 20ft wide 120ft long.

Hope this helps!

KorvinStarmast
2021-07-01, 10:15 AM
A few other things to consider are
I'll take them one at a time.

Can the "spirit animals" move through solid objects? walls of force? prismatic walls?
No. They flow around them just like they go around objects.

I don't think this needs to be concentration as a stampede gives the impression that the "spirit animals" are running.
I'll think about that, but for the moment I'll leave it in there.
I was trying to model it on cloudkill, which is concentration. If it is not concentration, then I could have conjure animals (8 wolves) up and then this at the same time. It is also intended to be useful in large outdoor battles, just like Cloudkill, so I think I'll keep concentration.

I think it is reasonable to think that a rhino, zebra, or some other herd animal could have a base speed of 60ft. and a "dash" speed of 120ft. You could consider making it a "line" perhaps. (rough guess) 20ft wide 120ft long. Applying a dash speed effectively expands the AoE considerably, which I am leery of doing with an eye toward balance.
I'll keep the speed as basic speed, but maybe 50 or 60 is the better number.

Hope this helps! Yes, helpful, thanks! :smallbiggrin:
Here's the Update:


Stampede
Spell level 5 (conjuration)
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: V, S Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

You create a 40' wide, 20'deep, line of spiritual herd animals (buffalo, horses, giraffes, zebras, etc) at a point you choose within range. The animals stampede in the direction that you choose and will continue in that direction until either the spell ends or you cease concentration on it. The stampede moves at a speed of 60'.

Effects on Creatures
Any creature in the spell’s area of effect on the caster's turn takes 5d8 bludgeoning damage on a failed Dexterity saving throw, and is knocked prone. On a successful save, the creature takes half damage and is not knocked prone. Any creature knocked prone takes an additional 2d4+3 bludgeoning damage if the saving throw result was 11 or lower.
Effects on Objects
Objects that are not held or worn by creatures in the path of the stampede take 5d8 bludgeoning damage. Objects of size Large, or larger, that are not destroyed by the bludgeoning damage cause the stampede to flow around the object. Any creature caught in the area of that flow around an object takes half damage on a failed Dexterity saving throw, and one quarter damage on a successful one.
Effects of Terrain on the Spell
The herd will plunge through rivers, go over cliffs, or try to flow around a cliff base's face (likewise with castle walls that are not knocked down, gigantic rock outcroppings, etc). Difficult terrain will not reduce the speed of the stampede. This spell can be used underwater. It will manifest as herds of spiritual giant sea horses, schools of large spiritual fish, etc. Speed underwater is that of a sea horse: 40 ft.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 6th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 5th.