How Mantis Leap actually works

[Elves]

Brought this up in Disc last night but thought I would elaborate on it. It's been claimed that the 3.0 feat Mantis Leap (from Sword and Fist) lets you make multiple charges as part of a move action, but it doesn't.


Designate an opponent who is within the maximum distance you can reach with a successful Jump check. Make a normal Jump check; if your check is successful, you can make a normal charge attack against the opponent you designated as part of the same action.


Not an Action: Some activities are not even considered free actions. They literally don’t take any time at all to do and are considered an inherent part of doing something else.
...The distance you jump when making a Jump check, for example, is part of your movement.

Some people read Mantis Leap's "as part of the same action" to mean either 'as part of jumping' or 'as part of the move action in which you jump'. And because you can jump multiple times during movement, that leads to the claim that you can trigger this multiple times to make multiple charges during your movement.

- "As part of the same action" can't mean as part of the Jump check, because "not an action" or "none" is not action type. It means that something isn't an action. A Jump check expressly is not an action, it's part of another action.

- "As part of the same action" can't mean as part of a move action either, because in 3.0 there were no distinct move actions. There were only normal actions (a standard action that also let you move) and partial actions (a standard action that didn't).

- In 3.0, because there was no move/standard division, "action" was also used synonymously with "turn". Since it can't mean a move action, the 3.5 translation of action here would tend to be "turn".

- Finally, "normal charge attack" implies a normal action cost. At the very least, it can easily be read that way, which means the free charge reading isn't stone-cold RAW like its proponents argue. And stone cold is what you need, since between the two readings, neither with evidence, the scale is likely to swing toward the one that doesn't hand out free charge attacks.

- Because of the muddy way the feat is written, there's still discussion to be had about how exactly it works. Whichever interpretation you use, it's still a great feat that overcomes a charger's biggest restriction. But what it doesn't do is let you charge as part of a move action, charge as part of jumping, or charge repeatedly with multiple Jump checks, and it probably doesn't grant you any free charge actions either.

[Darg]

A charge attack must be a straight line. Leap attack assumes at least a horizontal jump but you can jump at angles as long as the movement is a straight line.

With that said, I believe RAI is that it is supposed to let you move and then designate the direction of the charge with the jump. You have a move speed of 50. You move 40 feet forward then jump 90° to the left another 20ft to reach the target. This feat lets you then charge attack with the 20ft (to a maximum of 60ft as charge only lets you move up to double your speed and 40ft has already been used)

A charge moves you from one point to another. To make a jump while charging it has to be in a straight line to a single spot (there is never a situation where you have to choose between 2 squares). As Mantis leap has the charge as part of the same action as the jump, it would invalidate the first charge to change direction or distance in some way. If you can't get to the spot, you simply can't charge making it invalid.

[Zarvistic]

What restriction does it overcome? Seems like it only adds some damage. Rest you can already do as part of charging without the feat right?

[Darg]

The best restriction you can overcome is the lack of maneuverability that comes with charging. As long as you have 10ft to move and jump, you can charge.

In 3.0, moving and attacking is a single action called a standard action. there is no such thing as a move action. Because of this action weirdness, charging after moving and jumping would be considered the same action. Hence the clarification that it wouldn't be a different action.

[Elves]

I think Zarvistic is suggesting that the jump check doesn't result in you moving -- you just make the check, and if you succeed, you can do a normal charge but with a little extra damage. I don't think this is it because "normal Jump check" suggests that you move normally as part of the check.

It also doesn't make sense to say you jump normally and can then take a full round charge action, because if you're next to them you can't meet the minimum distance requirement. So it's possible "charge attack" is being used to mean the attack at the end of a charge, not an entire charge action.

I can't clear this up because I don't have a 3.0 PHB. If anyone does or can find it online please speak up.

[Darg]

Read it as you will. I'm still working through it myself.

Edit: removed link because it might be against forum rules.

[Paragon]

In the 3.0 PHB I can't seem to find the action "a Jump check" requires (which could be explained by the different classification of actions in 3.0 vs 3.5, i'm not expert)

What appears to me though is that Mantis Leap was replaced by Leap Attack in 3.5. They changed the prereq of monk 7 to power attack but increased the Jump ranks needed and it gives me the same feeling except it's clearer. Do you feel it'd be an unfair DM rule to say Leap Attack is the 3.5 update of Mantis Leap ?

[Gruftzwerg]

Make a normal Jump check; if your check is successful, you can make a normal charge attack against the opponent you designated as part of the same action.

1. It's not automatic.
2. You have to chose to make a "normal charge attack".
3. Thus, the charge attack is not free. You still need to spend the action needed for that.
4. "as part of the same action" is there to specify "against which opponent" you can make the charge and not to alter the action economy. People are reading the sentence totally wrong.
5. Jump is normally/generally a non-action and a part of your regular movement included into your movement action. Charge is a special action that includes movement and thus when combined with Jump, trumps the general rule that Jump is part of your move action. Jump becomes a part of your charge movement.