Allowing reloading with Mage Hand Legerdemain as part of an Attack

[Wasp]

What do you all think of adding something like this to the Arcane Trickster's Mage Hand Legerdemain to allow the use of a hand crossbow in the off hand while using a melee weapon in the main:

One time your turn you can use the hand as part of an Attack Action to reload one weapon with the ammunition property. This means you do not need a free hand to load that weapon. You cannot use the hand for anything else until your next turn.

What do you think?

[BerzerkerUnit]

I think this is already viable without any additional rules.

[Old Harry MTX]

I think this is already viable without any additional rules.

Technically no, it is not among the actions contemplated by Mage Hand or Mage Hand Legerdemain, unless you consider the possibility of manipulating an object. However, a Mage Hand can only generate the equivalent of 10 pounds of weight, which is definitely insufficient for loading a crossbow or drawing a bow. So if you want to consider the crossbow as a container in which the Mage Hand stores an object, you can certainly do it, but RAW then you need a free hand to load the crossbow.


What do you all think of adding something like this to the Arcane Trickster's Mage Hand Legerdemain to allow the use of a hand crossbow in the off hand while using a melee weapon in the main:

One time your turn you can use the hand as part of an Attack Action to reload one weapon with the ammunition property. This means you do not need a free hand to load that weapon. You cannot use the hand for anything else until your next turn.

What do you think?

I would say it is an addition that does not cause balance issues. Maybe I would specify that you can do that only on non two-handed weapons with ammunition (thus excluding the bows).

[BerzerkerUnit]

Technically no, it is not among the actions contemplated by Mage Hand or Mage Hand Legerdemain, unless you consider the possibility of manipulating an object. However, a Mage Hand can only generate the equivalent of 10 pounds of weight, which is definitely insufficient for loading a crossbow or drawing a bow. So if you want to consider the crossbow as a container in which the Mage Hand stores an object, you can certainly do it, but RAW then you need a free hand to load the crossbow.



I would say it is an addition that does not cause balance issues. Maybe I would specify that you can do that only on non two-handed weapons with ammunition (thus excluding the bows).

Well, if we want to go absolutely RAW, it says the hand can't carry more than 10 lbs, not that it can't apply more than 10 lbs of force under any circumstances. A mage hand applied to a long enough lever can lift a mountain etc etc. A crossbow with a crank draw should require less than 10lbs of force and turning cranks/pulling levers falls quite explicitly under what the "interact with an object" action is for.

If you then want to argue that loading the bolt and cranking the draw are two separate actions, that's fine, but I'd still argue that retrieving the next bolt and dropping it place is close enough to nocking an arrow that the hand mitigates enough of the Loading property to make it a non issue for a second attack in the same turn.

Personally, I think the question should be "what is mage hand legerdemain intended to do?" and "is this enough like that to just say it can?" For my money, emphatically yes and trying to get into such a fine gradient of action economy below this level is only going to lessen fun. It isn't enough of an advantage in any case and there is no rule that the DM's rulings need to be consistent beyond trying to insure fun is had by all.

The Rogue can't make a 2nd attack without multiclassing or taking a feat. The feat in question eliminates the need for this trick. This eats the rogue's bonus action, in combat perhaps the most critical round to round resource they have unless they're a kobold. So it's not broken.

but as always, check with your DM and YMMV.

[Wasp]

The Rogue can't make a 2nd attack without multiclassing or taking a feat. The feat in question eliminates the need for this trick.
If you mean Crossbow Expert, that doesn't eliminate the need for this trick, as you still need a free hand with crossbow expert as the ammunition property stays and states you need a free hand to load the weapon.

The reason for this trick is to do the reloading without having to spend an action or bonus action, so you could still attack with the main hand and make a bonus attack with the off hand due to crossbow expert.

[BerzerkerUnit]

If you mean Crossbow Expert, that doesn't eliminate the need for this trick, as you still need a free hand with crossbow expert as the ammunition property stays and states you need a free hand to load the weapon.

The reason for this trick is to do the reloading without having to spend an action or bonus action, so you could still attack with the main hand and make a bonus attack with the off hand due to crossbow expert.

Pardon me, I thought this was just reloading as a bonus action since Magehand legerdemain is to my knowledge just invisible magehand, fine manipulation, bonus action control.

If this was intended to be a “no action use” then no, it would not fly with me, but as always ask your own DM, ymmv.

[Old Harry MTX]

If you mean Crossbow Expert, that doesn't eliminate the need for this trick, as you still need a free hand with crossbow expert as the ammunition property stays and states you need a free hand to load the weapon.

The reason for this trick is to do the reloading without having to spend an action or bonus action, so you could still attack with the main hand and make a bonus attack with the off hand due to crossbow expert.

mmm, why don't you try to take another path? For example, you might think of a magic crossbow that can be freely reloaded once per round without a free hand, but which on the contrary requires attunement.