Do I have a niche in this party?

[togapika]

I always like my characters to have a niche/role that is theirs. Sure we may have a backup healer, but im The Healer, or someone maybe tanky-ish, but im The Tank.

We're in a homebrew world, and the party consists as follows:
1. Tabaxi Rogue/Ranger (mostly ranger) does ranged dps, stealth, lockpicking, thievery
2. Tortle Monk 7 way of Mercy. Tank, melee dps, healing
3. Half-elf Warlock 6/ Bard 1. Pact of the Blade. Her patron is The Traveler who is a homebrew patron that gives her buffs each day from a list based on 3 draws from a tarot deck. Ranged dps, melee dps, talker, buffs
4. Me. Satyr Warlock 6/Fighter 1. I'm a fiend patron with chain pact, though ill be genie patron eventually. Im a talker, as well as ranged dps, and my familiar does some scouting since it's an imp with invisibility. I do have eldritch blast, while the other warlock uses Chill Touch and picked up Vicious Mockery from her Bard level.

We call ourselves The Debauchery Circus, so we all have designations, like how our other warlock is The Fortune-Teller. My designation is The Ringleader, but im not really sure what that even means. We all talk often, so I'm not really The Face, and the monk has more hp and ac then me, and I'm a warlock, which means with limited spell slots, im not even a proper full arcane caster role.

This is probably just my issue, but im trying to see if anyone has perspective or advice for me. My usual combat MO is eldritch blast with my action and command my familiar to attack with my BA. I took the level of fighter for medium armor, shield, and the close quarters shooter fighting style, since I took it back when that was in the UA

[Addaran]

If you didn't already have your character, it would be easier to find a niche for you.

What i see, you're the backup for pretty much all roles. Since you only said buffs for the bard, then maybe pick spells that debuff or control? Your best bet is to coordinate with the bard so you have different kind of spell.
Picking skills the others don't have would help too but the game is already started so harder.

[LudicSavant]

I always like my characters to have a niche/role that is theirs. Sure we may have a backup healer, but im The Healer, or someone maybe tanky-ish, but im The Tank.

We're in a homebrew world, and the party consists as follows:
1. Tabaxi Rogue/Ranger (mostly ranger) does ranged dps, stealth, lockpicking, thievery
2. Tortle Monk 7 way of Mercy. Tank, melee dps, healing
3. Half-elf Warlock 6/ Bard 1. Pact of the Blade. Her patron is The Traveler who is a homebrew patron that gives her buffs each day from a list based on 3 draws from a tarot deck. Ranged dps, melee dps, talker, buffs
4. Me. Satyr Warlock 6/Fighter 1. I'm a fiend patron with chain pact, though ill be genie patron eventually. Im a talker, as well as ranged dps, and my familiar does some scouting since it's an imp with invisibility. I do have eldritch blast, while the other warlock uses Chill Touch and picked up Vicious Mockery from her Bard level.

We call ourselves The Debauchery Circus, so we all have designations, like how our other warlock is The Fortune-Teller. My designation is The Ringleader, but im not really sure what that even means. We all talk often, so I'm not really The Face, and the monk has more hp and ac then me, and I'm a warlock, which means with limited spell slots, im not even a proper full arcane caster role.

This is probably just my issue, but im trying to see if anyone has perspective or advice for me. My usual combat MO is eldritch blast with my action and command my familiar to attack with my BA. I took the level of fighter for medium armor, shield, and the close quarters shooter fighting style, since I took it back when that was in the UA

Why does the Tortle have more AC than you? Tortle and Monk AC don’t stack, and you have a Fighter level.

[Nidgit]

You could try changing Pact to Tome w/Book of Ancient Secrets in order to be more of a utility caster. Half the value of Chain pact is the excellent scouting, but a Rogue/Ranger covers that pretty effectively. Your party is pretty light on casting so they'd probably appreciate someone with a deeper pool of usable spells.

Another option could be to try and lean your eventual re-Patroning towards more control or healing. If you're committed to Genie then Dao is probably your best option for control purposes, but if not, Celestial is a solid choice too. Your Monk will be hard-pressed to tank and heal at the same time just due to positioning.

If you're interested in going further in Fighter, there aren't really many good subclass options. The best might be Rune Knight for Cloud and Frost/Stone Runes, though Giant's Might will bed mostly wasted.

[Kane0]

Youre the only one that can wear heavy armor, but theres a lot of overlap between yoi and the other warlock
Perhaps take the warcaster path, take up the armored caster bit since theres no cleric?

[LudicSavant]

Warlocks are such that you can have a party of 4 of them with none of them stealing the other's thunder and the team being more than the sum of their parts. I wouldn't be worried about having more than 1 Warlock. If there's any issue, it's gonna be with the specific builds.

[Waazraath]

I always like my characters to have a niche/role that is theirs. Sure we may have a backup healer, but im The Healer, or someone maybe tanky-ish, but im The Tank.

We're in a homebrew world, and the party consists as follows:
1. Tabaxi Rogue/Ranger (mostly ranger) does ranged dps, stealth, lockpicking, thievery
2. Tortle Monk 7 way of Mercy. Tank, melee dps, healing
3. Half-elf Warlock 6/ Bard 1. Pact of the Blade. Her patron is The Traveler who is a homebrew patron that gives her buffs each day from a list based on 3 draws from a tarot deck. Ranged dps, melee dps, talker, buffs
4. Me. Satyr Warlock 6/Fighter 1. I'm a fiend patron with chain pact, though ill be genie patron eventually. Im a talker, as well as ranged dps, and my familiar does some scouting since it's an imp with invisibility. I do have eldritch blast, while the other warlock uses Chill Touch and picked up Vicious Mockery from her Bard level.

We call ourselves The Debauchery Circus, so we all have designations, like how our other warlock is The Fortune-Teller. My designation is The Ringleader, but im not really sure what that even means. We all talk often, so I'm not really The Face, and the monk has more hp and ac then me, and I'm a warlock, which means with limited spell slots, im not even a proper full arcane caster role.

This is probably just my issue, but im trying to see if anyone has perspective or advice for me. My usual combat MO is eldritch blast with my action and command my familiar to attack with my BA. I took the level of fighter for medium armor, shield, and the close quarters shooter fighting style, since I took it back when that was in the UA

based on what you write here, I get the impression:
- out of combat you want a 'face' role, which you share with the other Warlock; (social pillar)
- out of combat you have a scout option with the familiar, but scouting is also done buy the rogue/ranger (exploration pillar)
- in combat yo do single target ranged dps, which is the same as the rogue/ranger does (combat)

I I look at other roles, in and out of combat, you won't be a good tank, with a ranged attack as standard option (even though you have access to decent armor/shield with the level of fighter, and warlocks have plenty of ways to get temp hp); you will never take a healing role; debuff is done by the other warlock/bard (and probably as well by the monk, through inflicting poisoned condition). What is obviously missing in this party is area of attack damage. Since you are a fiend warlock, my advice would be to save your spellslots for Fireball, mainly, and other big spells that the other warlock doesn't have. No wasting slots on Hex, just pure, big things that allow you to shine in combat or out of combat situations a few times/day. Additionally, scouting as a character and scouting as an invisible familiar is really different; pick up voice of the chain master, and maybe later that invocation that can see through walls or lets you detect magic at will; the ranger/rogue can scout by looking for traps, while you can scout by looking for hidden magics, seeing through walls and having you familiar spy in places a character wouldn't be able to come that easy.

In this way, you have both an in-combat and an out of combat niche, even though the first is limited by your spell slots (use them well) and the second is a shared niche - but within the niche you do different things.

[KorvinStarmast]

Im a talker,
You are the Circus Master, or the Ring Master.
You are familiar with all of the talents of the Circus, but a master of none of them.
You aren't on the flying trapeze, you aren't the strong man, you aren't the lion tamer.
But with your high charisma, you can be the leader, or the MC as it were.
Focus on control spells.

[da newt]

For a combat roll, I'd also recommend leaning into the game changing AoE damage and control spells - your first round of combat is all about shaping the battlefield - being the ring master - you dictate the terms of combat.

Personally, I'd jump at one more lvl of fighter for action surge, then go all warlock for higher lvl spell slots, and try to find a way to improve your initiative - weapon of warning, Alacrity, Alert, etc

[DwarfFighter]

Maybe you could discretely kill off the other characters so their replacements form up around your current niche instead of overlapping like now.

[Sorinth]

In combat you should be a controller that sits in the mid range.

You mainly use EB to control the position of enemies. Keep them off the back line and help the front line from being swarmed.

So grab Grasp of Hadar/Lance of Legarthy/Repelling Blast (You'll need level 7 to get all 3 on top of Agonizing Blast so for now pick 2). It's also very tempting to grab level 2 fighter for Action Surge. As you can use EB to reposition enemies so that they are clumped together and then hit them with an AoE spell.

[Man_Over_Game]

In combat you should be a controller that sits in the mid range.

You mainly use EB to control the position of enemies. Keep them off the back line and help the front line from being swarmed.

So grab Grasp of Hadar/Lance of Legarthy/Repelling Blast (You'll need level 7 to get all 3 on top of Agonizing Blast so for now pick 2). It's also very tempting to grab level 2 fighter for Action Surge. As you can use EB to reposition enemies so that they are clumped together and then hit them with an AoE spell.

Those were my thoughts. EB can be an excellent controlling tool with area spells. Warlocks get a few, Rangers get a few. Have them set up the spell while you push them back into it and then forcefully wall off their escape by standing in their way.

EB is an excellent form of damage, and it's not like your party needs more. I'd center your spells around utility and ask if casual walking through a city counts as a Short Rest from your DM. Warlocks can make excellent utility casters, since you're more likely to have a Short Rest between utility events than you are between combat encounters. They just have a limited spell selection for it, so pick your spells wisely.

[Kvess]

I wouldn't worry too much about niches. With a party of four, you're inevitably going to be carrying your weight in encounters, and at the very least the party's Rogue is going to appreciate your familiar providing backup on scouting missions as well as a source of advantage through the Help action, and through advantage a reliable source of Sneak Attack.


Waazraath recommended forgoing Hex for AOEs like fireball, and I somewhat disagree. While I think Fireball is a great spell for a party without a source of AOEs, Hex might also be an excellent option for you. If you choose to take a second level of Fighter, you will have access to Action Surge, which means you can use Eldritch Blast twice in a turn, giving you Six rays at level 11, which each trigger Hex. If you have an opportunity to take the Metamagic Adept feat, you could Quicken an Eldritch Blast, which would give you an opportunity to expand that to nine rays in a turn for up to 9d10+9d6+45 and an average of 126 points of damage. By way of comparison, disintegrate averages 75 points of damage.

[luuma]

As others in the thread have mentioned, you've got the best AoE damage in the whole group, and you can build to do tons of battlefield control with Eldritch Blast. Also note that you have access to some very potent debuff spells like fear, hypnotic pattern, stinking cloud, and hunger of hadar - all great uses for your concentration, and frequently better than hex. And once you reach 7th level, Wall of Fire is likely to be the best AoE DPR spell your party has access to.

You can also build to make the ultimate eldritch blast nova build - but I think the above niche will be more fun, and won't overshadow your companions' chosen builds.

[togapika]

If you choose to take a second level of Fighter, you will have access to Action Surge, which means you can use Eldritch Blast twice in a turn

I can cast eldrirch blast twice with action surge? Thats not limited due to the spell limits?

[Sorinth]

I can cast eldrirch blast twice with action surge? Thats not limited due to the spell limits?

Yes, you can even double fireball with action surge.

[chiefwaha]

I can cast eldrirch blast twice with action surge? Thats not limited due to the spell limits?

Cantrips aren't limited to one per turn. I'm pretty sure a sorcerer/warlock/fighter could quicken spell eldritch blast, action cast eldritch blast, and action surge eldritch blast.

Also, I thought Action Surge ignored the 1 leveled spell per limit rule?

[LudicSavant]

I can cast eldrirch blast twice with action surge?

Yes.


Thats not limited due to the spell limits?

There are no such spell limits.

Asking again: How does the Tortle have a higher AC than you?

[Man_Over_Game]

I can cast eldrirch blast twice with action surge? Thats not limited due to the spell limits?

The spell limit is only checked with Bonus Actions.

Just remember this rule: "If I ever cast a spell with a Bonus Action, all other spells I cast this turn must be Cantrips".

[togapika]

Asking again: How does the Tortle have a higher AC than you?

Apparently her AC is 1 point higher than me due to bracers of armor. I'm currently rocking 18 AC and 55 HP


If I wanted to be silly, I could spend 7500 gold and a long trip to get a suit of Mithral plate armor that is enchanted to grant me proficiency with it and be able to be donned as an action.

[Kvess]

You can also build to make the ultimate eldritch blast nova build - but I think the above niche will be more fun, and won't overshadow your companions' chosen builds.
I suggested it because they already took a level of Fighter and felt that they didn't have a niche in the party. Action Surge, Eldritch Blast and Hex happen to stack in an interesting way, and there are ways to push it further.

I don't think that a tactic you can use once in a day will take you from wondering what your role in the party is to completely overshadowing your allies. I also don't think it needs to prevent you from casting fireball or hypnotic pattern if the situation calls for it.

[LudicSavant]

Apparently her AC is 1 point higher than me due to bracers of armor. I'm currently rocking 18 AC and 55 HP


If I wanted to be silly, I could spend 7500 gold and a long trip to get a suit of Mithral plate armor that is enchanted to grant me proficiency with it and be able to be donned as an action.

You don't need mithral plate armor.

As a Warlock/Fighter your AC should be at least 19 from Dex + half-plate + shield. Also you should be generating temp HP as a Fiendlock.

[Waazraath]

I wouldn't worry too much about niches. With a party of four, you're inevitably going to be carrying your weight in encounters, and at the very least the party's Rogue is going to appreciate your familiar providing backup on scouting missions as well as a source of advantage through the Help action, and through advantage a reliable source of Sneak Attack.


Waazraath recommended forgoing Hex for AOEs like fireball, and I somewhat disagree. While I think Fireball is a great spell for a party without a source of AOEs, Hex might also be an excellent option for you. If you choose to take a second level of Fighter, you will have access to Action Surge, which means you can use Eldritch Blast twice in a turn, giving you Six rays at level 11, which each trigger Hex. If you have an opportunity to take the Metamagic Adept feat, you could Quicken an Eldritch Blast, which would give you an opportunity to expand that to nine rays in a turn for up to 9d10+9d6+45 and an average of 126 points of damage. By way of comparison, disintegrate averages 75 points of damage.

What?!? How dare you!!!?! Just kiddin ;-) You're right of course that hex / EB / [relevant invocations] is perfectly fine, I was reasoning from the OP's request for a niche. Somebody else is doing ranged damage as well (and a rogue / ranger can do that quite well as well) and the AoO niche isn't covered at all by this party, and with fireball on the list it's an obvious option. Nothing stops you from casting Hex in the morning and then take a short rest (you have lvl 3 slots after all so 8 hour duration) and use that as your concentration spell, and do EB + Hex + etc, all the times your not casting spells like Fireball.


You don't need mithral plate armor.

As a Warlock/Fighter your AC should be at least 19 from Dex + half-plate + shield. Also you should be generating temp HP as a Fiendlock.

Normally I'd say 20 for a build like this - OP what else you use your fighting style on? Defense seems a no-brainer.

[togapika]

OP what else you use your fighting style on? Defense seems a no-brainer.


GM let me take Close Quarters Shooter because I took the level of fighter back when it was in the Unearthed Arcana. I was getting lots of enemies reaching me at the time and it means I can cast Eldritch Blast in melee without disadvantage.

[Waazraath]

GM let me take Close Quarters Shooter because I took the level of fighter back when it was in the Unearthed Arcana. I was getting lots of enemies reaching me at the time and it means I can cast Eldritch Blast in melee without disadvantage.

Ah, that's nice, and better than defense indeed. Though if that's the case, you can be in melee and tank, with 19 AC that you should be able to get and when using abilities that generate temporary HP - won't be a niche for your own though, since somebody else is tanking as well.

By the way, I mentioned AoE my last post as a niche, but maybe you can spend your spells and invocations on battlefield control; that illusion at will invocation, spells like wall of fire, stinking cloud, darkness (+ see through darkness invocation), combined with EB that pushes, pulls, and/or slows. You can even pick a few AoE spells (fireball!!!) and fulfill both BFC and AoE, as only person in your party (AoE limited by slots, but you can't have everything).

[Devils_Advocate]

Maybe you could discretely kill off the other characters so their replacements form up around your current niche instead of overlapping like now.
That seems like an interesting villain backstory.

"I was once part of a party of adventurers much like your own. But I decided that my companions' capabilities had too much overlap with what I could do, and that I would be better off working with minions whose talents were less redundant with mine. Of course, there was no sense leaving anyone out there who knew my weaknesses, and the rest of my party had some valuable equipment, so I killed them all and took their stuff, as one does."