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ftafp
2021-06-28, 12:14 AM
5e has a problem: its crafting system sucks.

Absurd crafting times, a lack of customizability, and DM dependency all conspire to make it unusable in most campaigns, and those who do try it often find themselves wishing they just bought their item instead. Artificers have ways certain ways around this with infusions and magical tinkering, but with only a handful of available slots available, you can't exactly equip the whole party

Well, unsatisfied with this solution, I've turned to permanent-until-dispelled spells for my crafting. What I present here is a list of little inventions I've created or collected that should make artificing a bit more fun

Note: Before we get started I want to make something clear: While most of the following spells are on the Artificer spell list, Artificer isn't going to be the best class for crafting. Wizards and Bards will find themselves much more suited to this sort of thing, particularly Creation Bards because they don't have to worry about money. If you want the full experience however a 2-level artificer dip will give you magical tinkering, a bag of holding, a 1st level spellwrought tattoo, and more than enough goodies

Note 2: Check with your DM before using any of these. A number of them deal with things that are poorly worded or that WotC glaringly refused to explain the rules for

Security Chest
Spells Needed: Arcane Lock
Minimum Slot Level: 2nd
Crafting Time: 1 action
Materials Needed: 25gp worth of material components, plus a chest worth 5gp

One thing I love about small races is they have so many more options. They can ride on larger players and redirect attacks using Mounted Combatant, they can double as an improvised coaster or armrest, and they're really, really good at squeezing into tight spaces like chests putting them out of the way of attacks. Well, this item capitalizes on that by creating a portable bunker fo your little friends to hunker in. In combat, a small or smaller creature can squeeze inside the chest and close the lid to store themselves in full cover that per the wording of Arcane Lock is magically strengthened (the Dungeon Master's Guide suggests this would make it resistant to all damage), cant be opened by anyone but you or your allies and can't be targeted by most spells. At the start of their next turn they can just lift the lid, do their thing and then squeeze back inside and close the lid.

Note that because of the low weight, a medium character with high strength carry the chest strapped to their back fairly easily, resulting in a potent and hilarious murder backpack that many DMs will avoid targeting due to the general taboo against targeting carried objects

In addition to this far superior purpose, you could also presumably store things in the chest, making them inaccessible to thieves. I wouldn't do that though, as frankly it seems like a waste of a perfectly good hidey-hole

Devil's Lantern and Umbrella of Moil
Spells Needed: Continual Flame, Darkness
Minimum Slot Level: 3rd (Continual Flame), 2nd (Darkness)
Crafting Time: 1 action
Materials Needed: 50gp worth of material components, plus a Bullseye Lantern worth 10gp, or an opaque Umbrella or Parasol

Ever wanted to play a Devil's Sight build but been worried about pissing off your teammates? These are the items for you.

Before I explain how this works I want to straighten out 2 misconceptions:

Upcasting doesn't change the level of a spell: False. According to page 201 of the Player's handbook: When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting. This means that when you upcast Continual Flame at 3rd level, it is a 3rd level spell, and Darkness will not dispel it. This does not change even if you upcast Darkness, since the spell states only spells of 2nd level or lower are effected
Darkness blocks line of sight: Partially correct. According to Darkness's description: A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it. The key here being nonmagical. Normal darkness like being inside a dark cave wouldn't prevent you from seeing the light outside it Darkness forbids this by blocking all nonmagical light, but a Continual Flame is magical light and should still be visible from within Darkness


Okay, let's get into the items. For the Devil's Lantern, crafting is pretty simple. Simply cast Continual Flame in the Bullseye Lantern at 3rd level or higher beforehand, and then cast Darkness in the heat of battle. The lantern will shed bright light in 20 foot cone and dim light in a 40 foot cone, both of which cut through magical darkness. This means you can aim it away from you. You and your allies will be in darkness but your enemies won't be. Because this is directional, you might find it useful to assign a familiar, invisible servant or the like to keep it pointed at an enemy and away from you and your allies. Remember that they can also fly overhead and use it as a spotlight. This will assure you have advantage on all attack rolls, but the best your enemy will be able to manage is advantage and disadvantage canceling out.

The Umbrella of Moil isn't much different. Simply light the tip of your umbrella with Continual Flame and then cast Darkness on something beneath it. Unlike the Devil's Lantern, the Umbrella of Moil can only obscure a single creature at a time, but because enemies can't step into your darkness they will make attack rolls against you at disadvantage.

Both the Lantern and the Umbrella can expand the number of magical darkness spells it works with through upcasting, but I would not advise this as the other spells that create magical darkness also hurt you while you stand in them. Not

Universal Detector
Spells Needed: Magic Mouth
Minimum Slot Level: 2nd
Crafting Time: 30 minutes (with spell slots) or 5.5 hours (with ritual casting)
Materials Needed: 300gp worth of material components, plus any nonmagic item that can serve as an earpiece (such as earmuffs, a warm hat or an appropriately shaped coin)

The Universal Detector is an earpiece designed to cut through subterfuge, pinpointing the location of liars, illusions, and unseen creatures within a 30 foot radius around you. In addition, the detector is designed to be upgradable, and can find anything as long as you know what to look for.

This item is going to come together in four blocks, each of which are composed of multiple castings of the spell Magic Mouth cast on the earpiece. When something is detected, each of these blocks will whisper a sentence fragment in your ear in sequence. this sequence will tell you what it detected and where.

Block 1: The most important block, Block 1 detects something audible or visible within 30 fet and tells you what it saw, saying "X detected". For this build we'll detect 4 things.

if an unseen source within 30 feet makes a noise: say "Invisibility detected"
if dust in the air passes through a creature or object that it not fluid or transparent: say "Illusion detected"
if you see a creature that I cannot draw a line of sight to: say "Sneaking detected"
if a creature that is talking experiences a sudden change in their pulse, breathing and sweatiness: say "Lie detected"


Block 2: Block 2 splits the horizontal area around you into 12 30º wedges, numbered from 0 (directly in front of you) to 11 (immediately left of 0). Each of these is watched by a casting of Magic Mouth. When Block 1 detects something, Each slice in Block 2 will determine if it sees the same thing between 5 feet away from you 30. An addition slice, consisting of the circular area within 5 feet of you is numbered 12. If it does detect the same thing as Block 1, it will say "-at Y" where Y is the number of the slice

Block 3: Block 3 splits Block 2 into 7 vertical 30º wedges, numbered from 0 (directly above you) to 6 (directly below you). Each of these is watched by a casting of Magic Mouth. When Blocks 1 and 2 detect something, Each slice in Block 3 will determine if it sees the same thing between 5 feet away from you 30. If it does detect the same thing as Block 1 and Block 2, it will say "-and Z" where Z is the number of the slice

Block 4: Block 4 splits the volume around you into 6 5-foot thick concentric spheres. Each of these is watched by a casting of Magic Mouth. If it does detect the same thing as Blocks 1, 2 and 3, it will say "-W feet away!" where W is the inner radius of the sphere.

The end result is that when something is detected, the Universal Detector will say "X detected at Y and Z, W feet away!"

Unflinching Attire
Spells Needed: Immovable Object
Minimum Slot Level: 2nd (Temporary) or 6th (Permanent)
Crafting Time: 1 action
Materials Needed: 25gp worth of material components, plus a suit of clothing weighing less than 10 pounds

Ever get tired of people pushing you around, knocking you down, or falling off cliffs? Tire no more with Unflinching Attire. For the low, low cost of 25gp you can simply make your clothing immovable to anyone or anything other than you and maybe your allies if you're feeling trustworthy. Forced movement and the prone condition will be a thing of the past, and for those of you worried about getting stuck in mid-air, Jeremy Crawford said on twitter that when a spell says you "can" do something, you chose which you go with when you are given the opportunity. This means falling, much like acting like a jerk, getting sick or being a grizzly bear is a matter of choice. Just fall in short jolts. Your armpits will hate you but you won't take fall damage. That's a net win in my book

7-Flight Boots
Spells Needed: Immovable Object
Minimum Slot Level: 2nd (Temporary) or 6th (Permanent)
Crafting Time: 1 action
Materials Needed: 50gp worth of material components (or 100gp for quadrupeds), plus boots, shoes, sandals or other footwear

Okay look, normally I'm against racism, but Halflings piss me off. The furry-footed runts of Homo Floresiensis have had it too good for too long with their "second breakfasts" and their "111th birthday parties", while the rest of us are protecting our manflesh beating off urk-hai with a stick. Well I for one am not going to take it anymore.

As a means to exact my revenge, I have found the schematics for a pair of shoes that will let you stair-step into the sky. These shoes will be available to the entire party, including mounts and pets, but halflings with their disgusting taboo against not putting their bare feet in every little mud puddle that might actually be manure are earth-bound, unable to enjoy the splendor of the skies. Like with the Unflinching Armor, you get to decide when and if you step down, though word of the wise you might want to get Unflinching Armor too, because if you don't and were these the next time someone tries to push you around you're going to break both your ankles

Executioner's Clothesline
Spells Needed: Immovable Object
Minimum Slot Level: 2nd (Temporary) or 6th (Permanent)
Crafting Time: 1 action
Materials Needed: 25gp worth of material components, plus a length of wire and a weight

A great multi-purpose item all around. The Executioner's Clothesline has three very potent uses: strangling people-sized enemies, bisecting bigger ones, and restraining prisoners waiting to meet their fate.

Point 1 doesn't need much elaboration. Strangle someone with the wire then let go and let the spell handle the rest of it. RAW strangling is an improvised action, but if you want a frame of reference the Ettercap stat block has rules for strangling enemies you can work with.

Point 2 is a similar situation. Simply hang the wire in midair and wait for a big monster to come blindly barging into it. Having a weight at the end with make setup a breeze. Instead of needing to tie down one end and then draw it out, the weight can simply be throw, leaving the wire hanging in mid air. A familiar can also accomplish this for you without you wasting your action, as the method isn't really much of an attack.

Point 3 is a personal favorite. This is a great technique to use on targets who have been temporarily incapacitated by things like Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Hypnotic Pattern or Stunning Strike, extending the effective incapacitation and proving significantly harder to break out of than manacles, ropes or chains without requiring a massive bonus to Intelligence (Sleight of Hand) checks, making it perfect for familiars. Once again, RAW doesn't really provide rules for who you can tie up or how they're effected, but the Dimensional Shackles in the Dungeon Master's Guide at least provide a precedent for the former working on incapacitated enemies, and the latter can generally be surmised as "badly".

Bag of Buffing
Spells Needed: Glyph of Warding, plus any buff spells
Minimum Slot Level: 3rd
Crafting Time: 1 hour per buff
Materials Needed: 200gp worth of material components for each spell, plus a Bag of Holding or similar item and something to inscribe on

Note: If you are playing a Creation Bard to get around the money issue, do not use this trick. If you try, your DM will beat you to death in a Denny's parking lot at 2 AM

Spell Scrolls, who needs em? They take too long, cost too much, and don't make casting spells any quicker despite you putting in all that effort to prepping them ahead of time. Glyph of Warding is so much better, but it's got one teensy-tiny problem: you can't move it or you wasted your money. Luckily there is a way around it. How, you ask? Simple, you need a Bag of Buffing. Here's how it works

Let's say it's the end of the day and you've got a few spell slots left over. Who hasn't run into that? Well, if you have a Bag of Holding, or some other extradimensional storage device that you can simply reach your hand into like a Handy Haversack, you can turn that bag into a Bag of Buffing but simply taking something like a piece of paper and inscribing your glyph. Depending on your size you can either work wrist-deep in the bag or hide inside it and leave it open so you can get a breath of fresh air. Either way, you want to put in a spell glyph and you want to set the trigger condition to "when a hand in range makes a certain hand-sign unique to each glyph." Then in battle, all you need to do is stick your hand in the pocket, make the hand sign, and trigger the spell without using your action, targeting yourself

Now you may be wondering why we're using a bag of holding here. Can't you just use any bag? Well, no. See, the bag we're using here doesn't use normal carrying rules. The inside isn't really moving, the mouth of the bag is more of a portal to a tiny pocket in the substratum of reality. You put a glyph of warding in a normal bag and it shorts out the second you nudge it, but put it in a bag of holding and the bag can go wherever.

Bag of Illusions
Spells Needed: Major Image
Minimum Slot Level: 6th
Crafting Time: 1 action
Materials Needed: a Bag of Holding or similar item

Thought the Bag of Buffing wasn't badass enough? Check this one out.

Much the same deal as before. The extradimensional space isn't moving, which frees you from the burden of manually moving all your permanent illusions with you. When you need them, all you need to do is reach your hand in and use your action to move it. Ordinarily, spells wouldn't be able to pass through planar boundaries, but as this action only specifies that the start and end point must be in range, simply having one hand in the pocket and the rest of you out will make both the start and end points in range.

Illusionist Wizards will obviously get the biggest kick out of this item, but all others must prepare some illusions in advance that will fit in the bag. Looking into how contortionists, transforming robots and origami grandmasters operate is a good way to get the most out of a small storage space.

LudicSavant
2021-06-28, 12:34 AM
The true art of crafting! Such devices are a lot of fun, and quite useful!


Both the Lantern and the Umbrella can expand the number of magical darkness spells it works with through upcasting, but I would not advise this as the other spells that create magical darkness also hurt you while you stand in them. Not

Fans of Mind Blank can walk through Maddening Darkness unimpeded. :smallsmile:



Universal Detector
Spells Needed: Magic Mouth
Minimum Slot Level: 2nd
Crafting Time: 30 minutes (with spell slots) or 5.5 hours (with ritual casting)
Materials Needed: 300gp worth of material components, plus any nonmagic item that can serve as an earpiece (such as earmuffs, a warm hat or an appropriately shaped coin)

The Universal Detector is an earpiece designed to cut through subterfuge, pinpointing the location of liars, illusions, and unseen creatures within a 30 foot radius around you. In addition, the detector is designed to be upgradable, and can find anything as long as you know what to look for.

This item is going to come together in four blocks, each of which are composed of multiple castings of the spell Magic Mouth cast on the earpiece. When something is detected, each of these blocks will whisper a sentence fragment in your ear in sequence. this sequence will tell you what it detected and where.

Block 1: The most important block, Block 1 detects something audible or visible within 30 fet and tells you what it saw, saying "X detected". For this build we'll detect 4 things.

if an unseen source within 30 feet makes a noise: say "Invisibility detected"
if dust in the air passes through a creature or object that it not fluid or transparent: say "Illusion detected"
if you see a creature that I cannot draw a line of sight to: say "Sneaking detected"
if a creature that is talking experiences a sudden change in their pulse, breathing and sweatiness: say "Lie detected"


Block 2: Block 2 splits the horizontal area around you into 12 30º wedges, numbered from 0 (directly in front of you) to 11 (immediately left of 0). Each of these is watched by a casting of Magic Mouth. When Block 1 detects something, Each slice in Block 2 will determine if it sees the same thing between 5 feet away from you 30. An addition slice, consisting of the circular area within 5 feet of you is numbered 12. If it does detect the same thing as Block 1, it will say "-at Y" where Y is the number of the slice

Block 3: Block 3 splits Block 2 into 7 vertical 30º wedges, numbered from 0 (directly above you) to 6 (directly below you). Each of these is watched by a casting of Magic Mouth. When Blocks 1 and 2 detect something, Each slice in Block 3 will determine if it sees the same thing between 5 feet away from you 30. If it does detect the same thing as Block 1 and Block 2, it will say "-and Z" where Z is the number of the slice

Block 4: Block 4 splits the volume around you into 6 5-foot thick concentric spheres. Each of these is watched by a casting of Magic Mouth. If it does detect the same thing as Blocks 1, 2 and 3, it will say "-W feet away!" where W is the inner radius of the sphere.

The end result is that when something is detected, the Universal Detector will say "X detected at Y and Z, W feet away!"

Here's some more fun with Magic Mouth: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?539861-The-Arcane-Programmer-Guide-(-Official-Rules-Technique-)

ftafp
2021-06-28, 12:41 AM
Glad you liked it. I'll be adding inventions as I come up with them. Theres actually a few I forgot to throw in to the main post that I'll be adding soon

ATHATH
2021-06-28, 02:02 AM
Uh, are you sure that manacles are a valid target for Arcane Lock?

GeoffWatson
2021-06-28, 02:26 AM
Here's some more fun with Magic Mouth: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?539861-The-Arcane-Programmer-Guide-(-Official-Rules-Technique-)

The good old unlimited omniscient omnipotent Magic Mouth.

I guess the Invisibility Detected will go off as soon as it's dark or if there's a sound on the other side of a door/curtain/whatever.
Sneaking Detected? How could they see something you don't have line of sight to?
Lie Detected? That wouldn't be at all reliable - talkers being emotional are not automatically lying.

ftafp
2021-06-28, 02:32 AM
Uh, are you sure that manacles are a valid target for Arcane Lock?

Edit: On further review, I'll be marking this one for partial deletion after further review. Right now it's late.


The good old unlimited omniscient omnipotent Magic Mouth.

I guess the Invisibility Detected will go off as soon as it's dark or if there's a sound on the other side of a door/curtain/whatever.
Sneaking Detected? How could they see something you don't have line of sight to?
Lie Detected? That wouldn't be at all reliable - talkers being emotional are not automatically lying.

Magic Mouth is hardly omniscient or omnipotent, but that doesn't mean it personally has to draw line of sight, just that it has to be possible to see. In case you didn't realize, most things you cast magic mouth on don't have eyes. It's hard to have normal or darkvision without those

KorvinStarmast
2021-06-28, 08:07 AM
5e has a problem: its crafting system sucks. It's not a problem, the difficulty in crafting overpowered items fits into the game holistically.
The focus of the game is the act of adventuring, not downtime. Granted, one can pursue downtime to whatever depth the table cares to do that, but underlying the entirety of this games framework is "go out there and do stuff!"

Thanks for your homebrew suggestions, though, creativity is its own fun thing.

The only thing my bard (now level 13) has crafted (she has Arcana proficiency, and the DM uses Xanathar's rules mostly) is a moon touched rapier, and sometimes a few scrolls between adventures if the down time is long enough.

Finding cool magic items (or novel, or simple) is part of why the PCs adventure in the first place.

noob
2021-06-28, 10:04 AM
It's not a problem, the difficulty in crafting overpowered items fits into the game holistically.
The focus of the game is the act of adventuring, not downtime. Granted, one can pursue downtime to whatever depth the table cares to do that, but underlying the entirety of this games framework is "go out there and do stuff!"

Thanks for your homebrew suggestions, though, creativity is its own fun thing.

The only thing my bard (now level 13) has crafted (she has Arcana proficiency, and the DM uses Xanathar's rules mostly) is a moon touched rapier, and sometimes a few scrolls between adventures if the down time is long enough.

Finding cool magic items (or novel, or simple) is part of why the PCs adventure in the first place.

The umbrella is not an homebrew item: it is just a plain regular umbrella on which you cast two spells.
Omniscient magic mouth is definitively based on misinterpreting the raw based on the idea they did not specify "that you would be able to see/hear" while in 5e you are supposed to fill in the blanks of the rules as written instead of applying them as an automaton.

jjordan
2021-06-28, 11:50 AM
5e has a problem: its crafting system sucks.

Absurd crafting times, a lack of customizability, and DM dependency all conspire to make it unusable in most campaigns, and those who do try it often find themselves wishing they just bought their item instead. Artificers have ways certain ways around this with infusions and magical tinkering, but with only a handful of available slots available, you can't exactly equip the whole party

Well, unsatisfied with this solution, I've turned to permanent-until-dispelled spells for my crafting. What I present here is a list of little inventions I've created or collected that should make artificing a bit more fun

It's a recipe system based on videogame-style mechanics which, necessarily, only allow participants to craft items which have been defined within the system using tools and resources the system provides and tracks. So the lack of defined customization is understandable. Which is why the books tell us to adapt and improvise. Your solution is not the solution I'd prefer (for a large number of reasons I won't list to avoid derailing the thread) but it's still cool.

Questions:
How durable are these items? If I'm using the umbrella and someone casts an area of effect spell on me does the item get damaged and destroyed? If the item is damaged does it still work?

What's the power source for these spells? You've extended the operating time and made these spells re-castable. Do these items require a spell slot to activate? How many charges to they carry? Do they operate continuously or for the time period specified in the spell? Do they require concentration?

Comments:
It feels like these are, compared to scrolls and glyphs, superior. The mechanism feels superior as well.

LudicSavant
2021-06-28, 12:01 PM
What's the power source for these spells? You've extended the operating time and made these spells re-castable. Do these items require a spell slot to activate? How many charges to they carry? Do they operate continuously or for the time period specified in the spell? Do they require concentration?

He's just casting spells that have a duration of "until dispelled."

ftafp
2021-06-28, 02:31 PM
Thanks for your homebrew suggestions, though, creativity is its own fun thing.

These items aren't homebrew really. They're ordinary non-magic items that have spells with a duration of "permanent until dispelled" cast on them. All the spells are available in officially published books and are simply being cast normally with no house-made rules applied


How durable are these items? If I'm using the umbrella and someone casts an area of effect spell on me does the item get damaged and destroyed? If the item is damaged does it still work?

Generally, most of these items won't be any more fragile than your nonmagic equipment. AoE spells won't damage them because most AoE spells don't damage objects and the few that do make an exception for worn or carried objects

That said, there's still no written rule against an enemy attacking them directly. In this case, the DMG says magic items other than scrolls and potions have resistance to all damage, though I couldn't find a rule about whether a nonmagic item with a spell cast on it counts as a magic item.

The only other real weakness these items have is that they are vulnerable to dispel magic, something that normal magic items aren't. However, most of them are exceptionally cheap to replace, and the ones that aren't like the universal detector would require multiple castings to break.

Segev
2021-06-28, 02:43 PM
Even in cases where your DM rules for Ink Blot darkness (sadly, the more common interpretation, I have found, despite personally agreeing that magical darkness blocks line of sight no more and no less than natural darkness), you could set up the Devil's Lantern to shroud yourself and still let you see out in its lit cone: replace the bullseye lantern with a sort of miner's helmet with a pair of goggles that have the third-level continual flame in the "goggle chamber," but above and shielded from your eyes. The goggles block out the darkness spell internally, and the cone of third-level magical light illuminates a cone ahead of you. Everything but your eyes and the light source are shrouded in darkness, and since the cone of magical light cuts through the sphere of darkness, you can see through it.

ftafp
2021-06-28, 04:56 PM
Update: I've removed the Unbreakable Shackles and moved much of the details to the Executioner's Clothesline. I've also added a few new items. Going forward I'm going to try to make separate posts for items and simply link them to the main post

Magmawave999
2021-06-28, 05:55 PM
While it is a more specific creation, I have played a high level Genie warlock before and made the following invention:
Instant Wall
Spells Needed: Wall of stone
Minimum Slot Level: 5th
Crafting Time: 10 Minutes
Materials Needed: A Genie’s Vessel
The goal here is to cast wall of stone inside of a genie vessel (layer the panels such that the wall is ten feet long, 5 feet thick and ten feet tall with a total of 600 hit points) and then throw the vessel right in front of whatever you want to stop from attacking you.What happens after that is dm fiat, but that much stone can’t hurt.

Chronos
2021-06-29, 07:41 AM
The fundamental problem with magical darkness is that the game rules take for granted that we will treat it like ordinary, real-world darkness that's impervious to being illuminated. But there isn't any such thing, so nobody knows how to treat it. Different interpretations are possible, with no means of distinguishing which one is "right".

Segev
2021-06-29, 10:08 AM
The fundamental problem with magical darkness is that the game rules take for granted that we will treat it like ordinary, real-world darkness that's impervious to being illuminated. But there isn't any such thing, so nobody knows how to treat it. Different interpretations are possible, with no means of distinguishing which one is "right".

I think this is a topic for a different thread. Relevant to this thread, the OP described how he believes it works for purposes of his trick, and I gave a way to make the trick work with the most common alternate interpretation, as well. I don't think debating which one is right nor whether there are other ways to interpret it are relevant here, except possibly to briefly describe any alternate ways it could be interpreted solely for the purpose of refining the trick to work with the newly-described interpretation.

Kuulvheysoon
2021-06-30, 10:41 AM
...

Devil's Lantern and Umbrella of Moil
Spells Needed: Continual Flame, Darkness
Minimum Slot Level: 3rd (Continual Flame), 2nd (Darkness)
Crafting Time: 1 action
Materials Needed: 50gp worth of material components, plus a Bullseye Lantern worth 10gp, or an opaque Umbrella or Parasol

Ever wanted to play a Devil's Sight build but been worried about pissing off your teammates? These are the items for you.

Before I explain how this works I want to straighten out 2 misconceptions:

Upcasting doesn't change the level of a spell: False. According to page 201 of the Player's handbook: When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting. This means that when you upcast Continual Flame at 3rd level, it is a 3rd level spell, and Darkness will not dispel it. This does not change even if you upcast Darkness, since the spell states only spells of 2nd level or lower are effected
Darkness blocks line of sight: False. Most people picture Darkness as an enveloping sphere of blackness because it's intuitive, but the rules on lighting states that darkness, magical or otherwise only prevents you from seeing things inside it, not out. Think about how normal darkness works: if you're in a dark cave, you might be able to see out, but others won't be able to see in. There's no physical wall of blackness, you and your surroundings are simply not emitting or reflecting light. In other words think of it less of a solid orb, and more a radius in which objects are vantablack



The second "misconception" I'll have to disagree with for two reasons. The first being the Shadow Sorceror's ability to specifically see through their own magical darkness when cast using sorcery points, implying that they couldn't otherwise be able to see through it. Note the language there - through the magical darkness, not out of it.

Which brings me to my second point - the wording of the spell darkness itself shares this language.

Magical darkness spreads from a point you choose within range to fill a 15-foot-radius sphere for the duration. The darkness spreads around corners. A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it.

If the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn't being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it. Completely covering the source of the darkness with an opaque object, such as a bowl or a helm, blocks the darkness.

If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of light created by a spell of 2nd level or lower, the spell that created the light is dispelled. Emphasis mine. Your entire schtick for this item relies on being able to see out of the magical darkness, but that's not the language that it uses.

But let's hit that section on Lighting in the PHB. There's two (three) relevant sections that I want to point out (feel free to disagree -in fact, please do. Worst case scenario, we'll educate everyone around us :smallbiggrin:)


A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.
Okay, so I think that this is where you get your theory. Here's where it specifies seeing something inside the darkness. Which is fair. But it just says "darkness", not magical darkness (which we'll get to next).

Darkvision: Many creatures in fantasy gaming worlds, especially those that dwell underground, have darkvision. Within a specified range, a creature with darkvision can see in dim light as if it were bright light and in darkness as if it were dim light, so areas of darkness are only lightly obscured as far as that creature is concerned. However, the creature can't discern color in that darkness, only shades of gray.

Truesight: A creature with truesight can, out to a specific range, see in normal and magical darkness, see invisible creatures and objects, automatically detect visual illusions and succeed on saving throws against them, and perceives the original form of a shapechanger or a creature that is transformed by magic. Furthermore, the creature can see into the Ethereal Plane.
Okay, this is where we start to disagree. Truesight explicitly makes the difference between magical and nonmagical darkness (which darkvision does not). Heavily Obscured makes no difference between the two kinds, which leads me to believe that they mean general nonmagical darkness, as darkvision uses the same general "darkness" language (should this magical/nonmagical distinction have been caught in editing? In 3.5E it would have, but 5E cares less about that sort of thing). Specific overrules General in D&D, so this combined with the spell text leads me to believe that the trick, while neat, is based on a flawed assumption.

ftafp
2021-06-30, 11:54 AM
Okay, having read your argument and reviewed twitter explanations from wotc I've come to the conclusion that you are correct about how the spell Darkness works. However, I don't think it applies to these items


Magical darkness spreads from a point you choose within range to fill a 15-foot-radius sphere for the duration. The darkness spreads around corners. A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it.

You can't see out of or through Darkness the way you could through normal darkness because nonmagical light doesn't illuminate it, but Continual Flame isn't nonmagical light

Segev
2021-06-30, 12:02 PM
I still think arguing over how darkness works is off topic.

ftafp
2021-06-30, 12:08 PM
Fair. I've updated the description. Let's move any further discussion to a separate thread

nickl_2000
2021-06-30, 12:13 PM
What about putting a Teleportation Circle inside a portable hole?

Segev
2021-06-30, 12:53 PM
What about putting a Teleportation Circle inside a portable hole?

Even on a rolled-up carpet!

ftafp
2021-06-30, 12:53 PM
What about putting a Teleportation Circle inside a portable hole?

A teleportation circle only links to the same plane of existence. The inside of a Bag of Holding is a separate plane


Even on a rolled-up carpet!

that would work but what's the application here? I might be misinterpreting it, but it seems like a permanent circle is only "open" when you cast the spell.

nickl_2000
2021-06-30, 12:54 PM
Even on a rolled-up carpet!

Ohh a magic carpet. When you aren't using it you have it fly in the air with the circle facing the ground. If someone uses it when you don't want them to they fall to the ground with a crunch.

Segev
2021-06-30, 01:08 PM
that would work but what's the application here? I might be misinterpreting it, but it seems like a permanent circle is only "open" when you cast the spell.Portability. You can, for instance, ship the rug from Icewind Dale to Port Nyanzaru, and your wizard friend can cast the spell to transport your load of goods across without having to ship the goods, themselves. Could even ship fresh-caught Sword Coast Salmon that way, rather than having to catch it before it's shipped.

And while I use Port Nyanzaru as an example, you could also take this to Ye Littleste Village, where they couldn't afford a permanent teleportation circle.

For adventurers, you take the carpet with you on adventures, and when you need to camp out, you can just leave a token guard to protect the carpet while everyone else goes home to rest. Transit back to the circle on the carpet the next day. Or set it up in a secured camp outside the dungeon for quick egress without having to retreat all the way to a distant home base.


Ohh a magic carpet. When you aren't using it you have it fly in the air with the circle facing the ground. If someone uses it when you don't want them to they fall to the ground with a crunch.

Also feasible! Easier to transport. Useful for dropping kinetic harpoons through, as well!