Optimizing Hammer Fist

[Elves]

Hammer Fist is a feat from Dragon Compendium that lets you wield your unarmed strike with two hands for 1.5x Str returns and, presumably, doubled Power Attack returns (PA: "If you attack with a...one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls"; HF: "You may make a single unarmed attack with both hands"). The only limitation is that both your hands must be free and it can't be used with flurry of blows.

What are the best ways to use this?

The two most obvious synergies are Snap Kick (since it's one of the few things you can't use with another weapon + aptitude) and Lion Tribe Warrior, since Hammer Fist lets you make full 2x PA charge attacks with light weapons. Getting pounce with a feat instead of a class level could be beneficial. It could also combine well with a monk gish build since unarmed strikes can deliver touch spells.

You could use it with decisive strike, since flurry is excluded but decisive strike isn't. (Eg, decisive strike > belt of battle FRA time stands still > RKV divine impetus raging mongoose [>greater celerity/shadow cloak full attack], or go the shadow pounce route).

I wonder if there's a way to exploit the fact that weapons like braid blade and weighted sleeve technically leave your hands empty.

One idea, based on the current Iron Chef:
Martial Monk ACF used to take Hammer Fist feat
Skarn monk sub level (treat skarn spines as unarmed strike for monk class features, allowing spines to be used with Hammer Fist)
Spinemeld warrior 1st (TWF with spines)
Power Attack, ITWF from gloves, Double Hit
= 2x PA returns with both mainhand and offhand attacks when TWFing, as well as with double AoOs

- Could use Decisive Strike to go in an AoO centric direction [quadruple AoOs]

(This assumes you can't just TWF with US as both mainhand and offhand, which I don't think is possible since it's a single weapon.)

Edit: Although Double Hit's "you may make an attack with your off hand at the same time" could be read to preclude using Hammer Fist with it; you probably can't "make a single unarmed attack with both hands" at the same time that you also use your offhand to make a double hit. But who knows.

[Darg]

A few things to consider also:

Shield Bearer fighter variant has a special ability that lets your shield stand in for maneuvers that require unarmed strike.
Argent fist gives you ascetic knight feat and the ability to wear armor and benefit from monk ac bonus at 2nd level.
Decisive strike is not limited by armor and would double smite damage.
Slippers of the battle dancer can exchange your strength/dex bonus to attack and damage for your cha bonus if you move 10 ft

Shield Bearer 1/monk 2/paladin 4/Argent fist 2

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Savage Species has rules for adding grips for +1 hand to any masterwork weapon; each additional grip grants +0.5x Str damage for each one you have a hand for. Use that on a gauntlet or knuckleduster to get +1.5x Str damage, and save yourself a feat, and you can use it on a flurry.

[Elves]

Savage Species has rules for adding grips for +1 hand to any masterwork weapon; each additional grip grants +0.5x Str damage for each one you have a hand for. Use that on a gauntlet or knuckleduster to get +1.5x Str damage, and save yourself a feat, and you can use it on a flurry.
The rules I see are for more than 2 hands and don't apply to light weapons.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The rules I see are for more than 2 hands and don't apply to light weapons.It's been awhile since I read those rules, so yeah, you're right about that.

However, you can still use a gauntlet that's a size category larger than one you could normally wield so it's considered a 1-handed weapon for you, and use that 2-handed. Takes a small penalty to hit, though.

[Elves]

It's been awhile since I read those rules, so yeah, you're right about that.

However, you can still use a gauntlet that's a size category larger than one you could normally wield so it's considered a 1-handed weapon for you, and use that 2-handed. Takes a small penalty to hit, though.

Interesting idea though the -4 to hit is unfortunate. Might be undermined by this: "An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon", which possibly overrules the normal inappropriate sized weapon rules.

Also unclear to me whether a gauntlet is really its own weapon, regardless of what the table says. The text is: "This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes," which makes it sound more like an item that is enhancing your US than an independent weapon. That reading appeals to me because it cuts down on defending eager etc gauntlets. Are there published examples of (non spiked) gauntlets with magic properties?

[daremetoidareyo]

If you go kensai, does your hammer fist give benefit to each weapon in a stacking fashion? Say you have humanoid (reptilian) bane natural weapons. If you hit with both, are they double baned? Does it count as more than a single hit for things that trigger on “hits”?

[Darg]

Hammer fist uses both your hands to make unarmed strikes with them as a two handed weapon. It is one unarmed strike per attack so weapon enhancements would not double up. Decisive strike would double collision and the enhancement bonus though.

Hammer fist also does not prevent you from making an off-hand unarmed strike attack.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You could always add the morphing property to a scorpion kama and have it as whatever 2-handed weapon you want. Unarmed monk damage and any properties you care for. Granted, you won't have all the delicious stacking opportunities that heavily enhanced unarmed strikes give you, but you could have, say, a poison ring that deals 2d10 damage + poison on a touch attack instead of a measly 1 + poison damage.

[Anthrowhale]

Greater Mighty Wallop is an obvious damage increaser.

[Elves]

Hammer fist also does not prevent you from making an off-hand unarmed strike attack.
Was there ever a ruling on whether you can TWF with unarmed strike alone? My expectation is no since it's a single weapon.

[Maat Mons]

I'd argue that the Races of Fearun printing of Hammer Fist takes precedence over the Dragon Compendium printing by RAW. And the Races of Ferun printing requires being a dwarf for some reason.

There was an FAQ answer that said it's possible to TWF with unarmed strikes. Not everyone regards the FAQ as having the force of RAW, however. Personally, I've always felt the word of the FAQ was good enough, and run with TWF unarmed being legal.

I don't really think Hammer Fist gives more favorable returns with Power Attack. Even if it does count as wielding a weapon two-handed, it's still a light weapon. There's nothing saying wielding a light weapon in two hands helps with Power Attack. Unarmed strike gets special permission to function with Power Attack in the first place despite being a light weapon. But that doesn't stop it from being light.

If a DM lets Hammer Fist improve the benefits of Power Attack in his game, good. Unarmed strike could use some more support. And it's certainly not going to break anything that wasn't already broken.

If the DM lets non-dwarves that Hammer Fist in his games, that's good too. It was a dumb requirement. Why would dwarves be the only ones that can wrap one hand around the other?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Because Captain Kirk was a dwarf, apparently.

[Rebel7284]

I mean, you can get some really silly numbers on Unarmed Strike and some even sillier numbers on Uber-Charging with a two handed weapon, so doing both seems fun.

Hammer Fist + Eldritch Claws + Beast Strike + Leap Attack + Shock Trooper.

Probably at least one level of that Barbarian ACF that gives you Improved Unarmed Strike and TWF explicitly usable with Unarmed Strikes. Probably a little overkill for most games, but can be fun.

[Elves]

I'd argue that the Races of Fearun printing of Hammer Fist takes precedence over the Dragon Compendium printing by RAW.
eh, if it's official enough for you to use it's official enough to take precedence.
(Plus, that means Dragon update of OA wouldn't be legal.)


There was an FAQ answer that said it's possible to TWF with unarmed strikes. Not everyone regards the FAQ as having the force of RAW, however. Personally, I've always felt the word of the FAQ was good enough, and run with TWF unarmed being legal.
I know there was a ruling that monks could use unarmed strike offhanded, but was there actually a ruling that you could TWF solely with US, using it as both mainhand and offhand?


I don't really think Hammer Fist gives more favorable returns with Power Attack. Even if it does count as wielding a weapon two-handed, it's still a light weapon. There's nothing saying wielding a light weapon in two hands helps with Power Attack. Unarmed strike gets special permission to function with Power Attack in the first place despite being a light weapon. But that doesn't stop it from being light.
The x2 returns clause doesn't mention type, only handedness. US is legal for PA so it would work.


I mean, you can get some really silly numbers on Unarmed Strike and some even sillier numbers on Uber-Charging with a two handed weapon, so doing both seems fun.

Hammer Fist + Eldritch Claws + Beast Strike + Leap Attack + Shock Trooper.

Probably at least one level of that Barbarian ACF that gives you Improved Unarmed Strike and TWF explicitly usable with Unarmed Strikes. Probably a little overkill for most games, but can be fun.
Is there anything stopping morphing property from turning something into a natural weapon? Could you turn a morphing scorpion kama into a claw and then use with beast strike for 2x unarmed strike damage?


Never knew about the Star Trek punch before, lmao. Guess this is now a Capt Kirk tribute build.

[Darg]

Was there ever a ruling on whether you can TWF with unarmed strike alone? My expectation is no since it's a single weapon.

Double weapons are single weapons too. You are able to swing two clubs around with an arm each. Two weapon fighting mentions unarmed strikes as an off hand weapon even though "there is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed." If we take RAW (which I do) then when a monk uses their unarmed strike in the "off hand" they get their full strength bonus. The real clincher is this sentence:


Unarmed strikes count as light weapons (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on).

It speaks of it in the plural.

[Elves]

Two weapon fighting mentions unarmed strikes as an off hand weapon even though "there is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed."
Yes, they can be used off handed or main handed, but I'm looking for confirmation/evidence (eg, sample character) of whether they can be used as both in the same full atk.


If we take RAW (which I do) then when a monk uses their unarmed strike in the "off hand" they get their full strength bonus. The real clincher is this sentence:
Strict RAW would prevent monks from TWFing with US as offhand; FAQ clarified they can do so voluntarily.


It speaks of it in the plural.
Don't see what you mean. Casual plurals are frequent in the game rules. "Daggers count as light weapons" wouldn't tell you anything.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Can you 2-hand a warforged battlefist and use it in a Beast Strike monk unarmed strike?

[Darg]

Is there anything stopping morphing property from turning something into a natural weapon? Could you turn a morphing scorpion kama into a claw and then use with beast strike for 2x unarmed strike damage?

I think the the description of the ability prevents it:


The wielder of a morphing weapon can reshape it into any other weapon of the same type (light, one-handed, or two-handed) as a standard action.

Natural weapons have their own types: claws, gore, talon, etc. I don't think you care for a claw to morph into a claw.


Don't see what you mean. Casual plurals are frequent in the game rules. "Daggers count as light weapons" wouldn't tell you anything.

Casual plural or not, it is the only source of RAW on the subject. It tells me that unarmed strikes can be considered as multiple weapons.


Strict RAW would prevent monks from TWFing with US as offhand; FAQ clarified they can do so voluntarily.

Actually, RAW suggests they can use them off handed:


If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.)


There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.


If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon.

The rule is that you only need to wield the weapon in your off hand to gain the benefit of the extra attack. The monk ability doesn't say that there isn't an attack. It says that the attack is not an off hand attack and then explains what it means. You don't have to agree, but just as with your "casual plurals" there are multiple possible interpretations of RAW.

[Elves]

Can you 2-hand a warforged battlefist and use it in a Beast Strike monk unarmed strike?
Like gauntlet, battlefist modifies attacks rather than being something you attack with. So the question is if you can 2 hand a slam.

Nothing says you can't 2hand a light weapon, only that you don't get 1.5 Str to damage by doing so. & PA only says you must be wielding 2handed, so if you could find a way to 2h a natural wep, you would get 2x PA returns regardless of whether it's light or not.

You could argue that you can 2hand a slam but I don't think it's likely since slam like nearly all natural attacks is with one limb or appendage. It's telling that unarmed strikes, also one limb, need a specific feat to do this.