Ways to gain spell on a beguiller list

[Quentinas]

I'm the only spellcaster in my group (we are not so high of optimization myself the most able for this i do character not totally optimized) and the DM is most for RAW arguments but he can be reasoned with , our party composition is
Tibbit warblade/bloodstorm blade
Fey ri Paladin of Freedom/Hellreaver
Human Bard/Dirgesinger/Spellfire Wielder
Me Illumian (vaulkrau) Beguiller 8/Unseen seer 3
Cohort of the bard with ranger/foehunter/assassin (probably) based on hunting arcane casters , created by the DM
And we have various problem , from transportation, from protection against status and so on. Somehow we are doing well , but now we have a problem , as we know we have to fight demons (especially a lilitu and another fey ri spellcaster) and we know of the teleport of the demons, so we were thinking how trap them? The most easy solution I had in mind was dimensional anchor but no one of our group can cast it .

So how can we prevent teleportation from the demons
Or how can I add dimensional anchor (or other spells that can help us) to prevent them from escaping? We have access to the retraining but mainly for feats and for choice like advanced learning , but i can't gain access to ecletic learning as for my DM is only for warmage and not for other classes .
And it's not a choice use dominate person to let someone with a chance to block them as the paladin doesn't want to see the dominate person (we didn't knew each other character when we created them )
Extra spell on a beguiller the DM for previous experience ruled that it doesn't work

[RandomPeasant]

dimensional anchor is on the Portal Domain list, so the standard answer would be to take Arcane Disciple (Portal). An alternative would be to buy an Eternal Wand of anticipate teleportation, as UMD is a class skill for Beguilers.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Anyone who can cast arcane spells can use an Eternal Wand (MIC), even if the spell it contains isn't on your class spell list.

The Binding weapon property in MIC costs a +1, and 2/day it puts a Dimensional Anchor on the creature hit with your attack for 10 minutes. It can be put on a bow or crossbow or similar and bestow the effect on their ammunition.

You can UMD a Runestaff (MIC) and use your spell slots to cast the spells it contained as if they were spells known. UMD is necessary since the spells normally need to be on your class spell list. The Runestaff of Entrapment has Dimensional Anchor, or custom runestaff pricing is on p224.

[Feldar]

Yet another reason to never play 3.5 without a cleric in the party!

I was going to suggest UMD scrolls of dimensional lock and dimensional anchor. Wands are fine for DA, but DL shuts down an area.

Alternately, kill the bard's cohort and replace it with an actual cleric.

[pabelfly]

The Beguiler spell list should have various ways to add spells to your spell list - feats, prestige classes, that sort of thing.

This old thread might be of some assistance:

http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=2777.0

[Anthrowhale]

The feat Channel Charge (Lost Empires of Faerun) allows you to expend a spell slot of one higher level to cast any off-list spell for which you have a wand or staff.

Dragonblood Spell-pact (Dragons of Faerun) also can be used to customize the spells known of a Beguiler.

[Thurbane]

It's somewhat debatable as to whether a Beguiler can UMD a Runestaff or not, but if it's ruled he can: Runestaff of Entrapment (MIC p.178). 12,000 gp. You also get Otlikue's Resilient Sphere.

There's also the Ring of Theurgy (CAr p.145) 20,000gp. Issue is it will need to be "re-filled" after each casting.

[Darg]

You could always hire a mercenary. I think people forget mercenaries exist. While it might not be possible to get cleric right away, it might be worth it to search for one. Or consult the DM and take the leadership feat to nab a cleric buddy.

[Thurbane]

Anyone who can cast arcane spells can use an Eternal Wand (MIC), even if the spell it contains isn't on your class spell list.

The issue there is that Eternal Wands only go up to 3rd level, and Dimensional Anchor seems to be 4th level for everyone, except on the Portal domain list.

I mean, technically it holds a "single arcane spell, up to 3rd level", so a very generous DM might let you buy one that was created by a Cleric with the Southern Magician feat, or similar.

A fully charged regular wand would require UMD, and cost 21,000gp.

The good thing about DA is that the only thing that changes depending on class level is range and duration; as no SR no save spell, it is a decent candidate for a scroll or wand.

Drow House Insigia (Spell) (DotU p.99) can store a single spell up to 3rd level (legal from Portal domain), usable 1/day. 8,200gp seems a little steep, though.

[Anthrowhale]

The issue there is that Eternal Wands only go up to 3rd level, and Dimensional Anchor seems to be 4th level for everyone, except on the Portal domain list.
It's also L3 for Demonologist.

[RandomPeasant]

Dragonblood Spell-pact (Dragons of Faerun) also can be used to customize the spells known of a Beguiler.

That gets pretty broken pretty fast though. If you let the Beguiler swap their spells around freely, they become what is effectively a strictly better Sorcerer. You're probably better off with an Eternal Wand, Arcane Disciple, Runestave, or something else your DM is less likely to ban.

[Thurbane]

It's also L3 for Demonologist.

Nice catch!

In that case, Eternal Wand is probably the way to go. 10,900 for 2/day is better than some of the other options.

After 26 uses, it has been better value than a fully charged regular wand, and you don't need to worry about UMD.

Although...if you got a regular Wand of DA made by Demonolgist, it would only cost 11,250gp.

I guess it comes down to how much you are expecting to use it, if 2/day will be enough to cover the encounters, and how good the Beguiler's UMD check is.

[Quentinas]

dimensional anchor is on the Portal Domain list, so the standard answer would be to take Arcane Disciple (Portal). An alternative would be to buy an Eternal Wand of anticipate teleportation, as UMD is a class skill for Beguilers.

Damn me when i had chosen Boccob as deity! But it could still be affordable if the DM permit this as favor with Mystra (we are working with strict contact with cleric of her, and yes there are various deities from different ambientations)


Anyone who can cast arcane spells can use an Eternal Wand (MIC), even if the spell it contains isn't on your class spell list.

The Binding weapon property in MIC costs a +1, and 2/day it puts a Dimensional Anchor on the creature hit with your attack for 10 minutes. It can be put on a bow or crossbow or similar and bestow the effect on their ammunition.

You can UMD a Runestaff (MIC) and use your spell slots to cast the spells it contained as if they were spells known. UMD is necessary since the spells normally need to be on your class spell list. The Runestaff of Entrapment has Dimensional Anchor, or custom runestaff pricing is on p224.

The binding weapon property is quite useful, i will suggest this to our paladin or to the warblade , while the runestaff is perfect, i have a +19 on UMD check (but as the DM is quite stingy with treasure i don't have many wands, or partially charged wands)


The feat Channel Charge (Lost Empires of Faerun) allows you to expend a spell slot of one higher level to cast any off-list spell for which you have a wand or staff.

Dragonblood Spell-pact (Dragons of Faerun) also can be used to customize the spells known of a Beguiler.

Between channel charge and runestaff the DC to use a runestaff is lower, but it is quite interesting
While the dragonblood spell-pact is too much, I'm carrying the group and sometimes I think i do too much compared to other members , so no it's better if I don't use that


It's somewhat debatable as to whether a Beguiler can UMD a Runestaff or not, but if it's ruled he can: Runestaff of Entrapment (MIC p.178). 12,000 gp. You also get Otlikue's Resilient Sphere.

There's also the Ring of Theurgy (CAr p.145) 20,000gp. Issue is it will need to be "re-filled" after each casting.

Why is debatable? A runestaff isn't a spell trigger item like a wand ? And the ring of theurgy isn't so good but still nice find! I would only need to find someone to recharge


The issue there is that Eternal Wands only go up to 3rd level, and Dimensional Anchor seems to be 4th level for everyone, except on the Portal domain list.

I mean, technically it holds a "single arcane spell, up to 3rd level", so a very generous DM might let you buy one that was created by a Cleric with the Southern Magician feat, or similar.

A fully charged regular wand would require UMD, and cost 21,000gp.

The good thing about DA is that the only thing that changes depending on class level is range and duration; as no SR no save spell, it is a decent candidate for a scroll or wand.

Drow House Insigia (Spell) (DotU p.99) can store a single spell up to 3rd level (legal from Portal domain), usable 1/day. 8,200gp seems a little steep, though.

Probably the DM wouldn't let us use a cleric with southern magician but it could be an arcane caster with portal domain , while the drow house insignia is only 1/day and we didn't meet so many drow so probably good idea but not applicable

As for wands and scroll sure i could use them but the problem is that we would need to search a specific wizard/character with an high caster level to craft them as it require SR from what I remember or at least here (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalAnchor.htm) it say SR yes (object) so we need to surpass the SR of the demons


It's also L3 for Demonologist.

Except you know...we have a paladin that hunt demons , and people who work with them XD If we hunt a demonoligist and the paladin permit me to dominate him yes sure useful...but improbable

Probably I will go with the runestaff as it seems the best on an economical level, considering that give me otiluke resilient sphere, even if it use my slots of 4th level , or 5th level if I use metamagic on them ,12000 for 2 new spells is quite good and the beguiller list doesn't have many spells that use a reflex save
New info, the paladin is exalted , i don't know if this info help but maybe it can

As for the mercenary /killing the cohort well
The mercenary can be a good idea, we would need to find someone, and hoping that he doesn't die , and we are a bunch of chaotic character so lawful people could have a problem with the modus operandi of the group.
Killing the cohort it's not an idea, as even if the cohort isn't so much appreciated by the paladin, we don't have the power to choose which level will have a cohort, so it could be even a samurai for example. And it's not immediate so we would need to wait for some sessions, around 4-5 , so it's better having a ranger with arcane hunter/ foehunter (arcane)/assassin rather than nothing else (the bard confirmed his build and said that he has a negative caster level so probably he has mage slayer or something similar)

[Thurbane]

Why is debatable? A runestaff isn't a spell trigger item like a wand ?

FWIW, I'm in agreement that there isn't an issue with a Beguiler UMDing a Runestaff, but I have seen some lengthy debates about it previously.

I think their argument amounts to off-list spells not having a "level" to determine what spell slot a Beguiler needs to sacrifice, or something like that.

End of the day, only thing that really matters is how your table rules it.

[Anthrowhale]

That gets pretty broken pretty fast though. If you let the Beguiler swap their spells around freely, they become what is effectively a strictly better Sorcerer.

While I generally agree, it's perhaps worth noting that (a) the xp costs are about 1/4 lost familiar so extensive use is expensive (b) you need to actually find someone willing to trade and (c) Dragonblood Spell-pact is not on list for a Beguiler. These restrictions are perhaps enough in most game play situations.

[Crake]

FWIW, I'm in agreement that there isn't an issue with a Beguiler UMDing a Runestaff, but I have seen some lengthy debates about it previously.

I think their argument amounts to off-list spells not having a "level" to determine what spell slot a Beguiler needs to sacrifice, or something like that.

End of the day, only thing that really matters is how your table rules it.

From the way I see it, the question isn't whether or not they can do it, it's a matter of what the DC is. Is it DC 20 for the spell list, or is it DC 20+(level at which spell becomes accessible)

[Gnaeus]

I’d point out that if you can beat their SR and saves, you have a ton of tools on your base list. Like: Suggestion: “if you pretend to surrender, there is a good chance you can corrupt one of the adventurers”. Or Overwhelm, or confusion. You don’t always need a block teleport spell to block teleports.

[RandomPeasant]

Damn me when i had chosen Boccob as deity! But it could still be affordable if the DM permit this as favor with Mystra (we are working with strict contact with cleric of her, and yes there are various deities from different ambientations)

Your DM may allow you to change deities. AIUI, there are no RAW penalties for doing so unless you've got a class that explicitly gets its power from a god.


While I generally agree, it's perhaps worth noting that (a) the xp costs are about 1/4 lost familiar so extensive use is expensive (b) you need to actually find someone willing to trade and (c) Dragonblood Spell-pact is not on list for a Beguiler. These restrictions are perhaps enough in most game play situations.

I don't think b) and c) are terribly meaningful objections. c) in particular seems largely trivial, as the entire effect of the spell is to change what spells you know, making the fact that you start out not knowing it fairly unimportant. b) is somewhat more meaningful, but as a character with Bluff and Diplomacy as class skills and charm monster and glibness as class spells, I doubt you'll have trouble convincing people to make the swaps you want. a) is the only objection that really matters, and as we all know, XP Is A River (not to mention all the ways of trivializing XP costs).

[Quentinas]

I’d point out that if you can beat their SR and saves, you have a ton of tools on your base list. Like: Suggestion: “if you pretend to surrender, there is a good chance you can corrupt one of the adventurers”. Or Overwhelm, or confusion. You don’t always need a block teleport spell to block teleports.

I know that but there are some problems

First each side know what the other side can do in general lines, for example we know that the lilitu can imitate cleric spellcasting , and they know that the main spellcaster of the group is an illusionist/enchanter so they could be protected against some of the spells i can cast them (protection against good for example)
I could dispel the protection sure as i have dispel magic and at the next level greater dispel magic but then there is another problem which are the saves
I don't know the exact build of the enemies but i have only 22 of intelligence (only an headband of intellect +4 and rolling 4d6 for stats not point buy) and i have spell focus and greater spell focus for illusions and enchantments. But I don't have for example vow of nonviolence, or shadow magic/pernicious magic even if I could take them. From an optimization forum i know that isn't the best character but among the characters on the table is among the best.
So in many case the DC of my highest level spell for now will be 23 , 24 with cloaked casting
So between spells that I know they could counter, they could pass the saves at least in 50% of the case, and spell resistance , I prefer something that only ask an attack roll and a spell resistance and that they could expect but not so much

[Nezkrul]

Long term idea- 10th level rainbow servant ability would add all cleric spells to your beguiler spell list

[Fizban]

I would notify the DM that the party is incapable of dealing with these foes, and will either need to be provided with or allowed to purchase items to deal with the situation. A Binding (MiC, +1 bonus) weapon can anchor up to two foes per day while attacking and should be easily purchased at this level, with a usable caster level of 10th.

Rather than arguing about whether or not Runestaves work that way, just commission a custom item which is not a runestaff. There are multiple items in MiC which will cast spells in exchange for spell slots, clearly using the same pricing as the Runestaff section, despite not being "runestaves." Their wording means that they use the item's caster level and save, but Dimensional Anchor has no save.

If you're going to be fighting fiends of higher CRs with higher SR that items cannot deal with, then either your DM has chosen foes poorly for this party, or has decided it's time you reap the consequences of not having a Cleric if you were forewarned. You could just buy some higher cl scrolls, depending on how many casts you will actually need.

You say you're going to be fighting a Lilitu? Well if you know they're basically buffed up succubi, then presumably you know your first concern is anti-mind control.

[Quentinas]

Long term idea- 10th level rainbow servant ability would add all cleric spells to your beguiler spell list

For a Long term plan sure it could be an idea but probably we will have passed in another quest for that level ( and we should fine a couatli temple for that plan)


I would notify the DM that the party is incapable of dealing with these foes, and will either need to be provided with or allowed to purchase items to deal with the situation. A Binding (MiC, +1 bonus) weapon can anchor up to two foes per day while attacking and should be easily purchased at this level, with a usable caster level of 10th.

Rather than arguing about whether or not Runestaves work that way, just commission a custom item which is not a runestaff. There are multiple items in MiC which will cast spells in exchange for spell slots, clearly using the same pricing as the Runestaff section, despite not being "runestaves." Their wording means that they use the item's caster level and save, but Dimensional Anchor has no save.

If you're going to be fighting fiends of higher CRs with higher SR that items cannot deal with, then either your DM has chosen foes poorly for this party, or has decided it's time you reap the consequences of not having a Cleric if you were forewarned. You could just buy some higher cl scrolls, depending on how many casts you will actually need.

You say you're going to be fighting a Lilitu? Well if you know they're basically buffed up succubi, then presumably you know your first concern is anti-mind control.

This topic was born as the DM permitted to retrain and buying items during the time we are using to plan our next move and he knows that we didn't had any way to block that teleport.
For the runestaff it was not a problem so I bought that while the melee characters were doing something else . I hope we don't have too many enemies for the limit of the Runestaff

As for the selection of the enemies the lilitu and another one are from the Background of the Paladin so I think he created them from what is written in that background (the fey ri probably will not be fought as the DM said that if that fey ri was a player charactee he would be epic. He even said to me his classes which are hexblade, ranger , mortal hunter and demonologist. We know that the mortal hunter is his main class as he has the capstone of that class) For the lilitu we are preparating with potions and scrolls that can help us for example protection from evil for the protection from spells that can control and delay poison to avoid the Wisdom damaging poison

[Vizzerdrix]

A drake helm should do the job. Can also get you up to 3 other spells should you want to invest in it.

[Thurbane]

A drake helm should do the job. Can also get you up to 3 other spells should you want to invest in it.

I keep forgetting about that item. It's like a Ring of Theurgy on steroids. And it's better than Knowstones because they can be off-list spells.

Shame it very specifically only works for spontaneous arcane casters, and specifies an arcane spell known, otherwise it would be great for a Favored Soul. Maybe some UMD or Southern Magician shenanigans might get it to work for a FS?

[RandomPeasant]

I keep forgetting about that item. It's like a Ring of Theurgy on steroids. And it's better than Knowstones because they can be off-list spells.

That's not super relevant for a Beguiler specifically, as they get (and should therefore take) UMD.

[Thurbane]

That's not super relevant for a Beguiler specifically, as they get (and should therefore take) UMD.

Everyone rolls a 1 sooner or later (unless you are a Warlock or Artificer), which takes your item offline for 24 hours.

But yes, less relevant for anyone with UMD.

[RandomPeasant]

Everyone rolls a 1 sooner or later (unless you are a Warlock or Artificer), which takes your item offline for 24 hours.

Only "if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail". If you're heavily dependent on magic items, it's pretty easy to get your skill check to the point where that can't happen.

[Thurbane]

Only "if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail". If you're heavily dependent on magic items, it's pretty easy to get your skill check to the point where that can't happen.

Huh, I always missed that "and you fail" clause. Good to know. OK, once you've pumped it high enough, it becomes a non issue.

[tiercel]

our party composition is
Tibbit warblade/bloodstorm blade
Fey ri Paladin of Freedom/Hellreaver
Human Bard/Dirgesinger/Spellfire Wielder
Me Illumian (vaulkrau) Beguiller 8/Unseen seer 3

If you’re all 11th level and your Hellreaver character entered after 5 levels of CG paladin, your party will already wind up with a dimensional anchor effect from Hellreaver 6 in a couple levels (assuming your DM hasn’t given free LA, or LA buyoff), which means you probably don’t need a permanent solution, just an immediate one (plus a backup once your Hellreaver’s ability comes online).

If you’re worried about a specific encounter more than “the whole next story arc is going to be demons kiting us,” a few scrolls (and UMD) might be all you need.


And it's not a choice use dominate person to let someone with a chance to block them as the paladin doesn't want to see the dominate person (we didn't knew each other character when we created them )
Extra spell on a beguiller the DM for previous experience ruled that it doesn't work

Dominate person wouldn’t work anyway, given that fey’ri and demons aren’t classed as humanoids. If your paladin (who is after all CG) is a little flexible about your spell use, insofar as they don’t want you to remove your enemies’ free will, there’s always potentially suggestion:

“I suggest that you not run away like mewling weak unfit cowards from such mortal goody-two-shoes whom you obviously hate so much and who will go around spreading hope and happiness everywhere if you tuck your tails between your legs and bolt like the pathetic, useless little dretches you are.”