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Greywander
2021-07-01, 11:51 PM
It's been a while since I posted the original thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?628602-Slime-person-race) on this subject, but I'm finally back with an actual build for the race. I don't have any fluff in the doc just yet, so check the previous thread for fluff. One change is that they're now known as bellarians instead of alluvians (bellaria is apparently the Latin word for dessert?).

Linky: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13OxFjVpK5UDPEXpynHK8ws8BizEFUIJQTzYvoVKhSG0/edit?usp=sharing

A summary:
Intelligent, civilized slimes that usually adopt a specific shape (usually, but not necessarily, humanoid). They can squeeze through tight spaces, escape from restraints, and deal acid damage to people they're grappling with no save (currently). They come in a variety of flavors, which influences their elemental affinity, giving them special strengths and weaknesses. Separate from their flavors, they also have four different subraces: the healthy custards, mimicking mousses, the elastic gummies, and the psychic syrups.

Custards are made of a restorative slime that can clean and mend objects, as well as heal wounds. Not sure if this should spend hit dice or run off of limited uses per long rest.

Mousses can, in addition to changing shape, also change color and texture to mimic objects. They're also sticky and can climb walls or grapple as a reaction to being touched.

Gummies can stretch for extra reach, and bounce when they fall to get extra air. They are resistant to bludgeoning damage.

Syrups are mentally resilient and possess both telepathy and telekinesis.

On the flavors:
There's a lot there, so it might be difficult to parse at first glance. But it really comes down to a couple different elemental rock-paper-scissors sets. Chocolate, vanilla, and caramel represent one set of necrotic-radiant-psychic, while peanut butter, coconut, and butterscotch represent the same set except the weaknesses flow in the opposite direction. Likewise, strawberry, mint, and lemon represent a set of fire-cold-lightning, and cherry, blueberry, and grape represent the same set flowing in the opposite direction. Swirls allow you to combine up to three flavors, if you think it's worth it.

Honestly, these are in a pretty basic state right now, and lacking in fluff and lore. As I start writing up the fluff for these guys, new ideas will probably shake out of that that will cause this race to evolve into its own thing. For example, I don't have a good grasp on what syrups are or can do aside from being generically psychic. Once I have a better idea of where and how they fit into the lore, I'll have a better idea of what psychic powers they actually have.

It might be interesting to have multiple possible origins, and these might even be simultaneously true, e.g. one group of humanoid slimes came from one origin, another from a different origin, but they were similar enough that they mixed and now no one remembers who came from where, or even that they have different origins. Some origins could also be false, but no one knows for sure which ones. Possible origins: a wizard experimenting on slimes made some of these; the Good slime god created them as a counter to the oozes created by Juiblex; a horny bard did what horny bards do and fathered these abominations; regular oozes somehow gained intelligence and wanted to become as human as possible. For the origin story, I feel like the important questions to answer are: why slimes? and why are they humanoid? For example, perhaps the wizard was trying to use the amorphous nature of slimes to create some kind of shapeshifting creature who could adopt humanoid forms. Perhaps the Good slime god is not themselves a slime, but perhaps some sort of confectioner god with a humanoid form who also governs the slimes. Bard-slime relations should be obvious. Perhaps the slimes who gained intelligence where uplifted by humanoid creature, or maybe they're particularly intelligent gray oozes who stumbled across humanoid civilization after gaining awareness and sought to emulate it (as they'd seen no other examples of civilization).

Anyway, as always, I'm open to feedback and ideas. Your suggestions have already had a profound impact on these from the last thread, so keep 'em coming.

luuma
2021-07-02, 05:17 AM
Overall I think it has a touch too much power, but I love the creativity on display here, and I'm really impressed. Absolutely love "These Are All Cakes".

I'm not sold on the flavours - I think I'd prefer them to be simpler (e.g one for each of acid, cold, fire, lightning, and thunder) rather than having various flavours that grant darkvision, and also swirl, which seems to be the best by far.

Bouncy is probably just a little too strong. I think I'd change it to like "Bouncy. You have resistance to falling damage. Whenever you fall 10 feet or more, you may use your reaction to land on your feet and immediately make a high jump or long jump as if you had a running start. When you do so, your jump distance increases by 1d6 feet for every 10 feet you fell."

I also think mucus shielded mind should be "advantage on int/wis/cha saves against magic", like the gnome feature. If it's just affecting all of them in general, that's also a touch too strong.

Finally, even with those two changes, I think that I'd still reduce the power on slippery to "advantage on checks to escape from a grapple" and I'd change engulf to occur once per short or long rest - or replace it with another noncombat feature.

quindraco
2021-07-02, 11:01 AM
These don't feel anything like oozes - no blindsight, no immunity to blinded or deafened. I'd say either commit harder to being oozelike, or change the premise from oozes to elementals. There are three elemental planes you can pick from for this with ease: the plane of water, the plane of lava, and the plane of "ooze" (mud). That last one might fit best of all, if you wanted to commit to just one.

BerzerkerUnit
2021-07-02, 11:21 AM
I created an ooze grace called Globlins and Blobgloblins which were a bunch of goblinoid skeletons overtaken by oozes. They had acid resistance, reach, a d4 acid on unarmed strikes and advantage to resist or escape grapples.

Notably, medical exams revealed not all the skeletons are goblinoid, some mix and match and others are clearly elf/human/tiefling etc indicating after the first wave, their cultural identity was fixed.

I’ll dig up my write up.

I do like your allusions to flubber etc though. .

Greywander
2021-07-02, 06:18 PM
Overall I think it has a touch too much power,
A common issue in homebrew, especially with first drafts. I'll tweak things for sure as the concept develops, and try to tone down the power level.


I'm not sold on the flavours - I think I'd prefer them to be simpler (e.g one for each of acid, cold, fire, lightning, and thunder) rather than having various flavours that grant darkvision, and also swirl, which seems to be the best by far.
Yeah, I was afraid it might be getting too complex, but at the same time I didn't want all the slimes to be limited to just a couple different flavors. One would almost expect there to be hundreds of flavors, each with subtle variations, but that doesn't necessarily need to be represented in the player options. I'll probably simplify flavors and cut the list down a lot. As for darkvision, it was because I didn't feel like radiant, necrotic, or psychic resistance/weakness was especially significant, and plus it made sense for those associated with elemental light and darkness to have darkvision, just like angels and fiends do. But you're right that it might be unnecessary.

One reason I didn't include acid is because they're already resistant to acid damage. I suppose I could take away the blanket acid resistance, or perhaps the acid flavor might get full immunity instead of resistance. There are options, it's just a matter of figuring out which ones work the best and make the most sense.


Bouncy is probably just a little too strong.
I was worried about the bludgeoning resistance, but at the same time it wouldn't have made sense not to give it to them. Perhaps it could be balanced out by some kind of minor weakness to piercing or slashing, something like what the flavors have? Alternatively, instead of resistance, maybe it could be a flat reduction, like HAM, or the goliath racial.


I also think mucus shielded mind should be "advantage on int/wis/cha saves against magic", like the gnome feature. If it's just affecting all of them in general, that's also a touch too strong.
I went back and forth on this for a while, as initially they had advantage on saves versus charm and fear, as well as having their mind read or to tell if they were lying. It just seemed too busy. Honestly, though, should they be more mentally resilient? Another way of handling a psychic creature is to make them more vulnerable to mental effects, due to increased sensitivity to such things. So it might be worth looking to see what that route might hold. Again, I still don't have a good grasp on the identity of syrups yet; as I develop the lore for them more then I'd expect that to naturally suggest certain traits for them in order to fit with the developing lore. For example, what role do they play in bellarian society? What jobs do they excel at? What positions do they fill in the military? And so on.


I'd change engulf to occur once per short or long rest - or replace it with another noncombat feature.
I'd rather make it allow a CON save to avoid damage than make it limited use. But it sounds like maybe you think I have too many combat features. maybe_sniff_maybe.heavy
The first draft usually suffers from bloat, so at some point I'll be looking to trim down and streamline the features, which should inevitably end up removing or toning down the features that are less integral to the identity of the race.


These don't feel anything like oozes - no blindsight, no immunity to blinded or deafened. I'd say either commit harder to being oozelike, or change the premise from oozes to elementals. There are three elemental planes you can pick from for this with ease: the plane of water, the plane of lava, and the plane of "ooze" (mud). That last one might fit best of all, if you wanted to commit to just one.
Most oozes are also blind beyond their blindsight range. This was addressed in the previous thread, and my opinion hasn't really changed: blindsight is fairly strong as it is, if you have a longer range blindsight (e.g. 30 to 60 feet), but are blind beyond that range, then things are going to have a very wonky balance. While at close range, you can drop a Fog Cloud or similar effect to basically blind everyone but you, which is super powerful, and yet beyond your blindsight you're the one who's blinded, making you very weak against ranged attackers. Now, I think this could work on a homebrew race, and I've even done something similar with tremorsense before, but it's not really what I'm aiming for this time.

Generally, for the oozy traits that were deemed too strong to put as racial traits, these can be moved to racial feats instead. So blindsight as a racial feat could work.


I created an ooze grace called Globlins and Blobgloblins which were a bunch of goblinoid skeletons overtaken by oozes.
This sounds like a fun take on a similar concept. I could even see both your slime race and mine existing in the same world.

sandmote
2021-07-03, 10:57 PM
Maybe move swirl to a racial feat? Lore wise this could mean that Bellarians can change flavors partially as they grow, which might help explain where so much variety came from and why it might pop up regularly even in Bellarian exclaves.

Also, most 5e effects last until "the end of your next turn," rather than across "one round." Or until the start of your next turn, if talking about when it first returns to the same initiative. This is mostly the same, but I think it's usually a little clearer when the effect ends. Alternatively, take the language from lair Actions and specify if the effect ends before or after creatures act on the same initiative.

The flavor of this is really neat though.

paddyfool
2021-07-06, 02:48 AM
This is really creative stuff, good work! I don't know whether there's anything you'd like to borrow and convert from it, but someone did quite an interesting and very different take ooze race for another RPG that you might be able to borrow some additional ideas from.

Original thread:
http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=7854.0

Finished pdf:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8FCrAZcFJJDUjlISHpXZ3pHMVU/view?usp=sharing

Greywander
2021-07-06, 10:34 PM
I've made a few tweaks. Notably, Engulf now offers a CON save for half damage, so you still get some automatic damage, but not as much. Might change it to save for no damage, though keep in mind it does require a grapple. I expect things like PAM or other BA attacks to eclipse this, so I'd like it to keep some kind of niche.

Flavors have been cut back to an earlier set I had shortly before I made the OP. You now only have six flavors, one trio for fire-cold-lightning, and one for radiant-necrotic-psychic. I might add some extra flavor text that describes some of the additional flavors, such as the ones the reverse the relationships between each trio. The weakness effects now also only last until the end of your next turn, making the effects less potent but also less finicky.

Healing Slime has been reduced. Instead of spending hit dice, you have a pool of d4s you can use, and using them will reduce your max HP by 5 (because you are literally slathering part of your body on the target). Long rest to recharge your pool and get your max HP back.

I'm debating if custards should be the only type of slime that can safely store items inside their body, or if this should be available to all of them. I'm leaning toward making it available to all of them, as I don't really see any mechanical advantage (items are normally stored in hyperspace/hammerspace inventories anyway). Sure, there's a roleplay advantage, though I'd argue it's more different than better, especially with the translucent slimes where you can see the items floating in their bodies.

I think the mousse is fine for now, though I'm not sold on the Sticky Sugar trait. Might work better as a racial feat, but I'm not sure what I'd give mousses instead.

For gummies, I'm drawing a blank. I could give them damage reduction instead of resistance, but IMO bludgeoning resistance is one of the main reasons to play a gummy. And not necessarily for minmax reasons, but because there is something flavorful about being extra resilient to specific kinds of attacks. It might actually be fine, as a lot of enemies carry weapons that deal slashing or piercing damage, and they would switch from a bludgeoning weapon as soon as they saw it wasn't effective. I think it really only becomes an issue if you can get resistance to all three weapon damage types.

In the case of syrups, I'm playing with the idea of axing Mucus-Shielded Mind in favor of bringing in one of my other homebrew ideas: Teleport Speed (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?609905-Return-of-the-Teleport-Speed). TL;DR, teleport speed allows you to teleport using your movement. Because it uses movement, it still provokes OAs and such, and you need certain types of movement speeds in order to teleport under certain conditions (e.g. you need a swim speed to teleport into or out of water). As I say in that thread, I think 10 feet is a good value, not too strong but still useful and certainly flavorful.