3.5e Shield Sling? Anyone recall this?

[JoeNapalm]

I seem to recall a mundane shield enhancement, much like the shield sheath, but instead was a sling that let you don a shield as a swift action?

Anyone remember where in the many tomes of lore this might reside?

Thanks.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Darg]

Pathfinder has quickdraw shields (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/armor/quickdraw-shield).

Other than that, you have the Quickdraw feat for light and heavy shields.

[Gruftzwerg]

Pathfinder has quickdraw shields (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/armor/quickdraw-shield).

Other than that, you have the Quickdraw feat for light and heavy shields.

Add shoulder straps to your shield. This way you can always drop em as free action and redraw em (with Quickdraw) when needed. A common medieval gadget in some regions/times.

[Gorthawar]

Other than that, you have the Quickdraw feat for light and heavy shields.


Add shoulder straps to your shield. This way you can always drop em as free action and redraw em (with Quickdraw) when needed. A common medieval gadget in some regions/times.

Sorry I don't think this is correct . Donning a shield is a move action. This is different to drawing a weapon. Both light and heavy shield need to be strapped to the forearm.

Removing a shield is a move action for the same reason.

I don't know how to quote other websites but it is in the SRD section on getting into and out of armor.
Cheers.

[Darg]

Sorry I don't think this is correct . Donning a shield is a move action. This is different to drawing a weapon. Both light and heavy shield need to be strapped to the forearm.

Removing a shield is a move action for the same reason.

I don't know how to quote other websites but it is in the SRD section on getting into and out of armor.
Cheers.

You aren't required to strap a shield to use it as a weapon. In fact, you have to draw the shield before you can even strap it. Hastily donning a shield takes no time at all after all. A shield strap is necessary to hold the shield in place to defend yourself, but a shield designed to be strapped to the arm is still effective as a weapon even without the strap. You strike with the rim in front of the handle, in which case the force is directed into the base of the palm, or you use the face and the force of the swing keeps it in place against the arm. If you use the Shield Sling feat, you generally aren't going to keep the shield strapped to your arm.

[Gorthawar]

Fair enough but imho you shouldn't get the shield bonus when you just draw it.

[Maat Mons]

I'm not aware of anything like what you describe.

For most purposes, I like to use a mithril shield gauntlet (Races of Stone). It provides a +2 shield bonus, like a heavy shield. But it lets you use items (though not weapons) with your shield hand, like a light shield. It's exotic, but if it's made of mithril, the armor check penalty is zero, so it doesn't matter.

If you want to be able to rapidly go from wielding a weapon with your off hand to instead using a shield, you might try the Variable shield ability (Magic Item Compendium). It lets you transform your shield into a different type of shield as a swift action. For example, you could have it in the form of a buckler while using a weapon, then let go of the weapon as a free action, transform it into a large shield as a swift action, and be good to go. Bear in mind, you'll be taking a -1 penalty to attack rolls when using a weapon in the same hand as a buckler.

[Gruftzwerg]

Sorry I don't think this is correct . Donning a shield is a move action. This is different to drawing a weapon. Both light and heavy shield need to be strapped to the forearm.

Removing a shield is a move action for the same reason.

I don't know how to quote other websites but it is in the SRD section on getting into and out of armor.
Cheers.

Imho donning and drawing a shield are two different things and depends on the type of shield (if it has shoulder straps, and does it get attached tight to the arm or are you holding it in your hand). In this YT video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttJ8LdOQdSc)the difference between donning and drawing are shown clearly (for shields with shoulder straps - around the middle of the video).

Shields with shoulder straps are "donned" on your back most of the time and get "drawn" later when needed.
Same goes for "removing" or "dropping" such a shield with a shoulder strap. They are also different mechanics.
Thus the donning rules can be bypassed in most situations (since you do it once in the morning), if you pick the right shield setup.

Finally, Shields are indeed martial weapons (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm)in 3.5 and thus work legally with Quick Draw.

And if you "drop" a Shield (free action) with shoulder straps, you don't remove it. Again bypassing the donning rules.
Cheesy, but RAW and RAI imho.


Hastily donning a shield takes no time at all after all.

Sorry but the value for hastily donning a shield is N/A, thus it is not possible at all by general rules.

N/A != free action

it is not the same.

[Darg]

Sorry but the value for hastily donning a shield is N/A, thus it is not possible at all by general rules.

N/A != free action

it is not the same.

I don't know what you think the column means but


Don Hastily: This column tells how long it takes to put the armor on in a hurry.

N/A would mean it takes no time at all which would make it a non-action, not a free action. Nothing says you can't don a shield hastily. Considering it needs to be drawn when carried it makes sense. If you don't strap (don) it to your arm after being drawn then you suffer the penalties as described. Readying a shield is a different action than drawing a weapon. Quickdraw does not apply to the ready a shield action. However, you can draw and ready a shield as part of the same movement if you have +1 BAB, or with quickdraw spend a free action to draw and then a move action to ready.

[loky1109]

N/A is "Not Applicable".

[Gruftzwerg]

N/A is "Not Applicable".

^ this.


Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N/A) tells us that it either means:
a) not applicable
b) not available
c) no answer

Thus, you can't hastily don a shield. The table doesn't give you any valid value to work with here explicitly.

[Darg]

N/A is "Not Applicable".

Exactly. The column that gives the time it takes to don hastily doesn't apply to shields. The book does not say why. What it does say is that shields are armor. It also says that you don shields just like with armor. It does not say that shields are exempt from the don hastily penalties. Logically, the outcome is that if you don't strap the shield you suffer penalties if you use it as a shield. This scenario is what makes donning a shield hastily a non-action.

Or, you could say that shields don't suffer the don hastily penalty because they can't be donned hastily. Meaning that to fully use a shield as a shield it would require 2 actions. One to draw and one to ready (the ready a shield action only pertains to strapping, not swinging it over the shoulder to properly position it). This scenario doesn't have much textual evidence and requires context to be ignored.

Both cases require the same 2 actions to ready a shield. The first allows the use of the shield as armor when not strapped, but drawn in hand. The second does not allow the use of a shield as armor until it is fully strapped. The first is far more practical and realistic and allows a more flexible use of the Shield Sling and Quickdraw feats. The second isn't so great, but then again the niche scenario to draw and strap on a shield while in place is small.


^ this.


Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N/A) tells us that it either means:
a) not applicable
b) not available
c) no answer

Thus, you can't hastily don a shield. The table doesn't give you any valid value to work with here explicitly.

I don't know why you support this interpretation. It means that shields can't be used as a shield unless you spend an extra move action to don it. So while you could use it as a weapon, you couldn't use it as a shield until you spend a regular move or use the ready a shield action.

[Gruftzwerg]

I don't know why you support this interpretation. It means that shields can't be used as a shield unless you spend an extra move action to don it. So while you could use it as a weapon, you couldn't use it as a shield until you spend a regular move or use the ready a shield action.

When do you don your shield on an adventuring day? I assume in the morning after waking up when you prepare your gear. This is a small limitation that as said armors and shields have to face. I don't get where you see the problem here. A shield with a shoulder strap is regularly donned at your back and can be drawn like you would draw a weapon (while a shield which is fixed at your arm is always drawn after you donned it).

Unless you get ambushed while sleeping, the move action needed to don it won't bother you (same as with armor).

[Darg]

The point of the thread is the scenario where you would need to draw and ready a shield immediately.

And it's not a single move action. You need to draw the shield, 1 move action, and ready the shield, 2nd move action. If you only draw the shield then you wouldn't get any AC bonus from it.



Imho donning and drawing a shield are two different things and depends on the type of shield (if it has shoulder straps, and does it get attached tight to the arm or are you holding it in your hand). In this YT video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttJ8LdOQdSc)the difference between donning and drawing are shown clearly (for shields with shoulder straps - around the middle of the video).

Shields with shoulder straps are "donned" on your back most of the time and get "drawn" later when needed.
Same goes for "removing" or "dropping" such a shield with a shoulder strap. They are also different mechanics.
Thus the donning rules can be bypassed in most situations (since you do it once in the morning), if you pick the right shield setup.

Finally, Shields are indeed martial weapons (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm)in 3.5 and thus work legally with Quick Draw.

And if you "drop" a Shield (free action) with shoulder straps, you don't remove it. Again bypassing the donning rules.
Cheesy, but RAW and RAI imho.



Sorry but the value for hastily donning a shield is N/A, thus it is not possible at all by general rules.

N/A != free action

it is not the same.

A shoulder strap is not donning a shield. By RAW, a donned shield is strapped to the arm. While a strap over the shoulder could allow the use of a shield as a shield irl, it would also prevent use as an effective weapon because you wouldn't have a full range of motion to bash with. By RAW, it takes a move action to remove the shield in order to drop it, not a free action. Using shoulder straps just means you don't have to pick it up from the ground and can use the drawing action instead of the manipulate an item action.

I figured you'd be in favor of donning a shield hastily because you can then immediately make use of the shield when drawn from a shoulder strap.

[Gruftzwerg]

The point of the thread is the scenario where you would need to draw and ready a shield immediately.

And it's not a single move action. You need to draw the shield, 1 move action, and ready the shield, 2nd move action. If you only draw the shield then you wouldn't get any AC bonus from it.




A shoulder strap is not donning a shield. By RAW, a donned shield is strapped to the arm. While a strap over the shoulder could allow the use of a shield as a shield irl, it would also prevent use as an effective weapon because you wouldn't have a full range of motion to bash with. By RAW, it takes a move action to remove the shield in order to drop it, not a free action. Using shoulder straps just means you don't have to pick it up from the ground and can use the drawing action instead of the manipulate an item action.

I figured you'd be in favor of donning a shield hastily because you can then immediately make use of the shield when drawn from a shoulder strap.

Imho only the buckler actually makes claims how the shield is worn/donned:

This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm.
This is imho buckler specific and shows that they all have to be worn at your arm (and thus no shoulder strap and "back" position as option).

Light & Heavy Shields don't specify how they are worn:

You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand.
It doesn't say that they are worn like this (imho this is the drawn status). So I expect that when you draw it from your back, you'll slide your hand under the strap and grip the handle. Wearing/donning the (non-buckler) shield on your back and drawing it later doesn't interfere with the rules presented here.