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Nonah_Me
2007-11-13, 08:05 PM
Is it me, or is the Begiluer spell list extremely long? Sorcerors must have wet dreams about the amount of spells known that a Begiluer has.

The duskblade must be envious, it's in the same book but has half the spell-list.

Reinboom
2007-11-13, 08:19 PM
The... way you wrote your post is kind of bothersome.
But yes, the beguiler has a rather long spell list. However, they are also rather specific in nature. They can do very little to something that is resistant to mind affecting spells.
For certain people, yes, they completely exceed the sorcerer. For others... not quite. For example.. beguiler fits most of my spell choices and things I would do as a sorcerer except:
Benign Transposition (my favorite spell, even)
Fly
Disintegrate
Dimensional Shuffle
Greater Anticipate Teleportation
Teleport
Limited Wish
Ruin Delvar's Fortune

among many others.
And the beguiler will never be able to do these, except by UMD and what they sneak in with bloodlines or extra spell.

Definitely a good class. However, most of what they have also are a lot of fluff and unused spells as well.

deadseashoals
2007-11-13, 08:25 PM
It's extremely extensive, but also extremely redunant. Stuff like hold person and hold monster, every single image spell, and a million different mind affecting spells (charm person, charm monster, suggestion, dominate person, and dominate monster all have similar applications). So they're still not as versatile as a sorcerer with a carefully selected list, but they do have enough to be very good at what they do.

Crow
2007-11-13, 08:29 PM
off topic - Where is Benign Transportation?

Reinboom
2007-11-13, 08:33 PM
off topic - Where is Benign Transportation?

Spell Compendium. Page 27.

Frakbox
2007-11-14, 09:35 AM
what book is beguiler in?

squishycube
2007-11-14, 09:38 AM
Google is your friend (http://www.google.com/search?&q=beguiler+D%26D&btnG=Search):
PHB 2

CASTLEMIKE
2007-11-14, 10:12 AM
Is it me, or is the Begiluer spell list extremely long? Sorcerors must have wet dreams about the amount of spells known that a Begiluer has.

.

I agree really feels like the Sorcerer class got cheated again. Beguiler gets D6, No ASF in light armor with light armor proficiency, 6 SPS a level plus casting based off of Intelligence which enhances skill levels more skills like Diplomacy, better weapons, lots of spells with many that regularly make sorcerer limited known spell lists.

Kobold sorcerers can undertake the draconic ritual to improve spellcasting to normal at a cost in hit points so why can't Dragon Blooded or Half Dragon template sorcerers with a draconic heritage do the same?

I just House ruled the Sorcerer class a major upgrade after the Beguiler hit the street: D6, 6 SPs a level, Beguiler skill lists and weapon proficiencies along with the UA/SRD spellcaster bonus feats at 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20 and known spells like a Favored Soul mechanically with PRCs the bonus feats really just go away, most arcane PRCs are D4 and 2 SPs a level. All sorcerers can undertake the kobold draconic ritual if desired.