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Quietus
2007-11-13, 09:15 PM
What're everyone's thoughts on this PrC? At first glance, it seems pretty weak in some ways; you lose your normal song advancement, spell advancement, AND skill advancement in one fell swoop, and in exchange get the ability to use two songs at a time, some minor bonuses while performing, and some blaster abilities, as well as the ability to make your allies resistant to various elements.

Admittedly, the DC against these blaster abilities (10+ranks in Perform) looks like it could become pretty decently high; DC 23 at level 10 isn't too shabby, and 33 at level 20 is quite decent. Even so, it strikes me as unlikely that a 30 foot cone of 6d6 fire is going to be a big help, nor is a 60 foot 10d6 line of cold (admittedly, this one can cause fatigue). It strikes me as though this class is going to simply hemorrhage music uses, though, since she needs to first activate a "I get X resistance 15" ability, and then can spend a music use to blast.



Right now, I'm looking at a character I recently made, and would consider aiming for that class. She's a Bard, a dancer to be precise, who takes her inspiration from all of nature around her - when she finds something inspirational, she devises some new dance out of it, regardless of mechanical benefit or not. Being that she exists in a very Elemental-rich world, this all comes together to make the flavor of Seeker of the Song EXTREMELY good-sounding, but I'm concerned about the mechanics. I don't need, or even want, to be the most powerful character. However, I don't want to be a drag on my teammates, and it really does strike me as likely that I will be - at level 11 I stop being a primary buffer and start being a blaster, with my big 6d6 fire cone.


Does anyone have any experience with this class, or any suggestions on similar flavored classes/options for this particular character? As far as available material, I have access to all the Complete series, the PHB2, and the Draconomicon. I can also request individual things from other books, but anything psionic, setting, or ToB is explicitly banned.

Fine print : The first person to suggest something from Tome of Battle owes me a cookie.

BardicDuelist
2007-11-13, 09:27 PM
The class is really fun to play. I highly recomend taking Lyric Thaumaturge from 6th to 10th level, as this will give you extra spells and spells known, and make up for the lack of these at higher levels.

It is a blaster class, but it is also a buff class. If you play a character who relies on his music more than his spells, this is a good class to play. It is not the most powerful, nor is it broken, or really that offensive, but it is fun.

Some things to note:

SR does not apply to your songs, so yes, you are blasting, but you're avoiding SR entirely.

The healing song is really good, and can get silly high results.

Do everything you can to find ways to boost your buffs and give even more abilities to your music, as you will lack options that you had with spells.

Alternate things:
Snowflake Wardance from Frostburn is perfect for your character (judging by the description), so see if it can be used.

Quietus
2007-11-13, 11:07 PM
I've considered Snowflake Wardance, but with my big 12 strength, I'm not going to be doing a heck of a lot of damage. Even assuming I fire up my Inspire Courage, I'm only going to add 2 damage (and only 1 if I go into Lyric Thaumaturge). Granted, I'll have d6+2 HP/level, but that's still not a huge amount for me to be rolling in combat for d6+3 damage.

Now, if I could find a way to increase the damage I do in melee...

I'm looking at Lyric Thaumaturge, and I don't see much that would really assist Nalani there - she's definitely more of a bardic music specialist than a spellcaster, so I'd rather be able to pick up another person to be Fascinated, along with Inspire Courage +2 and Inspire Greatness.

Catch
2007-11-13, 11:14 PM
It's quite a fancy class, one of my favorite Bard PrC's. The only caveat to playing a Seeker of the Song is that it takes a long time to meet the entry requirements and the class doesn't really come into its own until rather late in the game. If you're playing a high-level campaign, the Seeker is quite a bit of fun. Low to mid level games though, you might be better off skipping it.

Icewalker
2007-11-13, 11:17 PM
My brother and I came to the consensus that the class has an awesome idea, but the mechanics that make it up aren't anywhere near as cool as they could be. We resolved to remake the class so he could use it for his bard, and I'm probably going to get around to it. For the powers of the class, I don't know them too well. It's just the feel of it seemed different than what we were aiming for, but with the right backstory.

My variation would be that there are these natural songs that exist in the world, and that this class is based around seeking them out and using them. They would give some basic control, and on perform checks you could manipulate, say, fire, if you learned the primal song of fire.

BardicDuelist
2007-11-13, 11:21 PM
As far as boosting your damage: Bost your Inspire courage. It doesn't matter that you don't get the class boosts, becasue there are tons of ways to make it better.

Spell (Inspirational Boost?) that I don't remember the name of.

Song of Heart (Eberron)

Words of Creation (BoED)

All of these can really help that one.

JaxGaret
2007-11-13, 11:26 PM
One of the characters in our party is playing a Seeker right now. It's not too bad overall, and it has one of the best abilities in the entire game - the Hymn of Spelldeath. It's amazing to see enemy spellcasters simply fail over and over and over again trying to cast. Great stuff.

Quietus
2007-11-13, 11:37 PM
As far as boosting your damage: Bost your Inspire courage. It doesn't matter that you don't get the class boosts, becasue there are tons of ways to make it better.

Spell (Inspirational Boost?) that I don't remember the name of.

Song of Heart (Eberron)

Words of Creation (BoED)

All of these can really help that one.


I don't have the int score for words of creation, and I don't have access to setting material, so no Song of Heart. Other than that, if there's a spell available that would help me, I'd certainly be interested in seeing it.

And yeah, the hymn of spelldeath is pretty awesome... hell, the Seeker of the Song class itself looks pretty awesome, but as Icewalker pointed out, it's not very strong in the mid-levels. 6d6, even if it IS at a high DC, isn't going to break anyone's games. At least I'll still be a good buffer at that point, though.

This IS an ongoing thing... it's sort of a persistent world thing going on, which means I'll be able to play Nalani either till she dies, or till I retire her. So levels 10-1X or so will likely be slow, but I can see things picking up a bit once I have more than just 6d6 fire cone available as options for blasting things.

BardicDuelist
2007-11-13, 11:47 PM
This IS an ongoing thing... it's sort of a persistent world thing going on, which means I'll be able to play Nalani either till she dies, or till I retire her. So levels 10-1X or so will likely be slow, but I can see things picking up a bit once I have more than just 6d6 fire cone available as options for blasting things.

Remember, you still have all of your other bard abilities, not the least of which is Fascinate/Suggestion. Your spells, while you don't gain the better ones, can still prove useful as well.

It's been a while since I played a Seeker of Song, but I seem to remember a class that advanced "bardic music, or SIMILAR abilities" which my DM read as advancing Seeker Music. It also advanced spell casting. Probably FR specific though...

Quietus
2007-11-14, 12:30 AM
Remember, you still have all of your other bard abilities, not the least of which is Fascinate/Suggestion. Your spells, while you don't gain the better ones, can still prove useful as well.

It's been a while since I played a Seeker of Song, but I seem to remember a class that advanced "bardic music, or SIMILAR abilities" which my DM read as advancing Seeker Music. It also advanced spell casting. Probably FR specific though...

Man, that'd be nice. A two-level dip into Seeker to pick up that two-music thing, and then off into the blue on another class... hah.

Wouldn't surprise me if it was FR though. Settings get so much good stuff..

JaxGaret
2007-11-14, 01:41 AM
Man, that'd be nice. A two-level dip into Seeker to pick up that two-music thing, and then off into the blue on another class... hah.

Wouldn't surprise me if it was FR though. Settings get so much good stuff..

It would be even nicer if you could take two levels in Seeker and two levels in Sublime Chord, and then take this other class progressing the Seeker's BM and the Chord's spellcasting :smallsmile:

BardicDuelist
2007-11-14, 08:00 AM
It would be even nicer if you could take two levels in Seeker and two levels in Sublime Chord, and then take this other class progressing the Seeker's BM and the Chord's spellcasting :smallsmile:

That's actually exactly what I did.

Person_Man
2007-11-14, 10:40 AM
I'm not a fan. With all the supplements out there, Bards have a ton of spellcasting options. SotS doesn't progress their casting, and so their flexibility (the primary reason to play a Bard) is somewhat limited. Also, from personal DMing experience I can tell you that the class doesn't work particularly well around high levels.